Fire Emblem with the worst balance?

[Shadow Mir]

Its not like FE6 is harsh with deploy slot and tough units unlike a certain game with shit ton of shitty unit

Straight from Wendy's jointime, the team have the big M, the great Z, and at least 3 Staffbot

Even if it isn't... why in the bloody hell would I field not one, not two, but THREE armors in a game like FE6 which has bigass maps (by GBA standards, at least)? And that's not even touching on the part where two of those join right before the one part of the game where you do not want to be an armor.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Jedi]

Even if it isn't... why in the bloody hell would I field not one, not two, but THREE armors in a game like FE6 which has bigass maps (by GBA standards, at least)? And that's not even touching on the part where two of those join right before the one place where you do not want to be an armor.

Because movement means crap in non ltc runs.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Bigass map? who give a fuck. Fuck turncounts, play stupid slow.

Also correction two of those join right before 2 chapters where being an armor is a nightmare

EDIT: @Jedi: Well, movement still means you can apply your offense in a more versatile manners, so it matters a bit

Edited October 15, 2013 by JSND

[Jedi]

EDIT: @Jedi: Well, movement still means you can apply your offense in a more versatile manners, so it matters a bit

True but still it isn't the be all end all if you don't care about turns though haha.

[Baldrick]

As for Wendy... Knight... arena... what's wrong with this picture?

If you're talking about enemies spawning silver weapons, Wendy's defence is usually too awful to trigger it.

Training the catgirls is a lot harder than training Wendy. At least you can feed the latter kills on PP; the former either can't attack, so feeding them becomes an art, or gain very little experience, so feeding them is a marathon. And at the end, Wendy is mediocre, but still better than most of the late game pre promos; the cats have inherent problems, and useless compared to the royals.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

True but still it isn't the be all end all if you don't care about turns though haha.

Theres also FE12, where some slow strategies actually relied on high movement units, although im not sure the full list of the chapters

[Jedi]

Theres also FE12, where some slow strategies actually relied on high movement units, although im not sure the full list of the chapters

Yeah.. The movement does help alot I was just being a little silly when I said that haha, I'm just one of those guys who likes to use everyone eventually no matter the class or stats. But still going slower sometimes does mean that movement isn't as much of a factor too ^^

Edited October 15, 2013 by Jedi

[-Cynthia-]

FE12 has really terrible unit balance at higher difficulties. The game's cast could be cut in half and no one would care really.

[Genuine Uncertainty]

Nothing is as broken as fe4, what with all of 3 un-mounted combat units making the cut to usefulness.

Holy Weapons, class balance and the truly unfair weapon triangle

[Shadow Mir]

If you're talking about enemies spawning silver weapons, Wendy's defence is usually too awful to trigger it.

Training the catgirls is a lot harder than training Wendy. At least you can feed the latter kills on PP; the former either can't attack, so feeding them becomes an art, or gain very little experience, so feeding them is a marathon. And at the end, Wendy is mediocre, but still better than most of the late game pre promos; the cats have inherent problems, and useless compared to the royals.

Well, I'd feel good about being able to feed Wendy kills, but for the fact that it's often at far from reliable hit rates, and the fact that Wendy's pathetically weak to the point where I'd likely need to weaken an enemy to like 1-4 HP for her to even be able to kill it. Conceded on the part where Wendy's defence usually wouldn't be enough to be seeing silvers. Honestly, I'd say Wendy has it so bad, I'd rather try to get Lethe or Lyre to being usable, and that's saying a lot.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Baldrick]

You can use savescumming to ensure she never misses. If you're more honourable, you can pick battles where she won't be killed on the counter, and always have a contingency plan, even if it means a few more turns. Anyone who attempts to use her and LTC is a fool or a masochist.

[Jedi]

And if you want an absolute hit and don't mind spending turns the triangle attack never misses :P

[Baldrick]

Yes, but that requires using Bors and Barth. They aren't very good :P

I'd put FE6 second after FE4, but I can't say how the latest two compare.

[Ema Skye]

Honestly they all seem equally badly balanced.

Like on one hand, we have: Sigurd, Asvel, Miledy, Marcus, Seth, Titania, Haar, Caeda, My Unit and Avatar.

On the other hand, we have: Hannibal, Miranda, Wendy, Renault, Amelia, Ena, Lyre, half of FE11 and FE12's cast and Gregor.

Yeah gonna go with FE12, followed by FE11.

[Florete]

4 and 9 are the worst balanced, gave my vote to 9 because no one had yet, wth.

Mount heavens. Mounted units have an innate advantage, but these games magnify it to a startling degree. 4 is probably worse because 9 at least has some foot units that can be good and useful, if only because of the varying map objectives.

I'm seeing people cite Awakening as "everyone wrecks" or something like that, but that actually makes it balanced between characters because there's not too much discrepancy in how good they are. Radiant Dawn is also somewhat balanced, though oddly and not in the way one would normally think of it being balanced.

Haven't played 11 and 12 enough to really comment on them.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Refa]

People complaining about FE4 balance because it's mount dominated are dumb because the game was balanced around most of your army being mounts; not to mention most of the unmounted units are pretty great in their own right (Gen 1 for example, the bad unmounted units who would be bad regardless of what game they were in are Azel and Ardan; and the only ones who are good but negatively affected by the mounts are Ayra and Holyn). Holy Weapons I can definetely agree on though, those things are insane. And if you're complaining about the actual units and not "lol mount dominated" you can make a pretty good case for that as well. I just think it's funny that people are like LOL ALEC AND NOISH ARE TOTALLY BREAKING THE GAME EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE WORSE THAN MOST OF THE UNMOUNTED UNITS instead of SIGURD SKIP WTF.

Do people really care about balance outside of LTC? Legit question here

Pretty sure LTCers care more about lack of balance actually, considering Warpskip, Marcus rush, etc. :p

Simple enough with time and such, I mean arenas do exist and setting up kills isn't exactly the hardest thing to do, just time consuming at first

Arena abuse is a risky investment.

FE10 by far.

In 1-6 the game throws Zihark and Tauroneo. Unless youve been feeding every kill to Eddy, Z will be better. And Tauroneo is a big "Haha fuck you, you idiot. Why did you waste that time trying to do anything with Meg".

Then there is Nailah and the BK.

Tormod, Vika, and Muarim go from being your best unit in part 1 to "oh yeah these guys are in this game"

Or the Crimean royal knights who are all ORKO machines except Astrid. She cant kill shit.

All those normal Laguz you tried training all game? The are made completely useless by the Royals you get at the end.

THIS. I think FE10 is a great game, but it just hands you way too many powerhouses and downplays the importance of growth units (with like, a few exceptions) more than any other FE game that I've played.

[Shadow Mir]

4 and 9 are the worst balanced, gave my vote to 9 because no one had yet, wth.

Mount heavens. Mounted units have an innate advantage, but these games magnify it to a startling degree. 4 is probably worse because 9 at least has some foot units that can be good and useful, if only because of the varying map objectives.

I'm seeing people cite Awakening as "everyone wrecks" or something like that, but that actually makes it balanced between characters because there's not too much discrepancy in how good they are. Radiant Dawn is also somewhat balanced, though oddly and not in the way one would normally think of it being balanced.

How is 9 worse than 6? I generally see FE6 as not much different from FE4 in favoring mounts. Also, the units that get hard mode bonuses in FE6 are the ones who were already insanely good anyway.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Jedi]

How is 9 worse than 6? I generally see FE6 as not much different from FE4 in favoring mounts. Also, the units that get hard mode bonuses in FE6 are the ones who were already insanely good anyway.

You heard it here first folks, Fir, Klein, Gonzo, Cath and Gareth are insanely good. [granted I like all of them but still "Insanely good"?]

Although Raigh, Douglas and Hugh should have gotten them and its a bit crazy that Miledy and Percy get them [only if you get him later that is so you can "fix" that. I will admit but lol

Edited October 15, 2013 by Jedi

[Integrity]

My vote is entirely subjective: FE12 was the only game where I felt like there was jack for shit I could to to bring half the cast to anything even remotely usable.

[Shadow Mir]

You heard it here first folks, Fir, Klein, Gonzo, Cath and Gareth are insanely good. [granted I like all of them but still "Insanely good"?

Although Raigh, Douglas and Hugh should have gotten them and its a bit crazy that Miledy and Percy get them [only if you get him later that is so you can "fix" that. I will admit but lol

Well, "Some of them" would've been a more accurate phrasing, but still, the fact that Rutger, Shin, Miledy, and Perceval, all of who were good even without them, get hard mode bonuses brings to perspective just how bad most of the cast really is (and 3 of them are even mounted).

Edited October 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Refa]

Well, "Some of them" would've been a more accurate phrasing, but still, the fact that Rutger, Shin, Miledy, and Perceval, all of who were good even without them, get hard mode bonuses brings to perspective just how bad most of the cast really is (and 3 of them are even mounted).

I don't think Rutger and Shin getting HM bonuses is the worst thing in the world. Shin is hardly broken in any sense of the word, and it's not so much that Rutger is broken than it is that the FE6!Swordmaster class is.

[Jedi]

Well, "Some of them" would've been a more accurate phrasing, but still, the fact that Rutger, Shin, Miledy, and Perceval, all of who were good even without them, get hard mode bonuses brings to perspective just how bad most of the cast really is (and 3 of them are even mounted).

"Bad" is subjective by your elitist attitude and you don't even LTC so I do not get you at all, if you did I'd understand your complaints entirely but truth of the matter is, the entire cast of FE6 is useable without LTC stipulations

Rutger and Shin are mediocre in NM [heck Sue often surpasses him in NM and catches up in HM except in Str], Rutger is only as amazing as he is because of his class.

I'm done bickering in this thread ciao. Apologies to PKL.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Jedi

[Shadow Mir]

I don't think Rutger and Shin getting HM bonuses is the worst thing in the world. Shin is hardly broken in any sense of the word, and it's not so much that Rutger is broken than it is that the FE6!Swordmaster class is.

Perhaps.

People complaining about FE4 balance because it's mount dominated are dumb because the game was balanced around most of your army being mounts; not to mention most of the unmounted units are pretty great in their own right (Gen 1 for example, the bad unmounted units who would be bad regardless of what game they were in are Azel and Ardan; and the only ones who are good but negatively affected by the mounts are Ayra and Holyn). Holy Weapons I can definetely agree on though, those things are insane. And if you're complaining about the actual units and not "lol mount dominated" you can make a pretty good case for that as well. I just think it's funny that people are like LOL ALEC AND NOISH ARE TOTALLY BREAKING THE GAME EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE WORSE THAN MOST OF THE UNMOUNTED UNITS instead of SIGURD SKIP WTF.

The thing is, we're talking about a game where most mounted classes have 8-9 movement to most non-mounted classes' 5-6 movement. Considering how much ground you have to cover, any foot unit getting even a half decent amount of combat might as well consider themselves lucky, for the most part.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Refa]

The thing is, we're talking about a game where most mounted classes have 8-9 movement to most non-mounted classes' 5-6 movement. Considering how much ground you have to cover, any foot unit getting even a half decent amount of combat might as well consider themselves lucky, for the most part.

Sure, but thanks to arena (I'd say Elite Ring passing, but that requires...a lot more planning), it's easy to keep Ayra and Holyn up to speed. Besides Azel and Ardan who I agree are awful (but I think they'd be awful even if they weren't in FE4), I'm pretty sure every other unmounted unit is a utility unit of some sort (or can promote into a mount later on)... Or is Levin, who's a utility unit after promotion and has a Holy Weapon and has hax combat even without that.

[Espinosa]

Rutger's hardly broken at all if he doesn't get royally blessed with strength growths. He stops being the best bosskiller once Percival arrives, possibly earlier.