One-Shot Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[The Objection!]

So, joking about votals in RVS is a scummy play, eh? I'll be sure to keep that in mind for future games. Also, I'm not the most frequent poster in case you guys didn't notice. Mafia is not my whole life you know....

Anyways, time for reads....

Refa is being wishy washy, going back and forth, etc.

I'm not justifying a town read on Objection (currently, he's null) because of this, but I'm not finding him nearly as scummy as other people (OK, just Polydeuces) are.

Also as I'm seeing things right now, it's Objection > Polydeuces > BBM > Everyone Else on terms of who I'd want to lynch.

That was a quick change, with no good reason. Unless you can provide me with one?

Eurykins' play looks good so far, no reason to think otherwise yet.

More coming (and my vote) after I get back from school.

[euklyd]

Okay done with school for a bit; so I've got a bit of time to post.

Sorry I'm reading but have something else going on atm. Wanted to ##Unvote ##Vote: Euklyd because I still feel better about this tbh. I don't get why he seems so hesitant to vote anyone/keep his vote on anyone for too long. I'm seeing a lot of back and forth between his reads on Poly and Eclipse and that quick vote/unvote I didn't like either, especially since his Eclipse vote was a votepark to get an explanation out of her? And yet he says he's "leaning her" even though he stated he liked the response he got from her. Ehhh.

I didn't say that I liked the response, I said that it was a response and that I wanted to think about it. I felt like I didn't really have enough time to think about it because I had other kinda time-critical things to attend to and couldn't really devote much attention at that time.

Still not liking eclipse's BBM tunnel, and her responses have consisted of logic I don't like (which I guess isn't exactly scummy in itself, but meh) and telling people to read why her previous justifications instead of elaborating or clarifying, and while I've seen her do this in past games, I still don't really like it.

She's still the person I feel worst about.

Still scumreading Poly (where is he?).

Slightly leaning town on BBM, although he could be staging a fight with Poly, I guess.

Leaning town on Viata, for consistent reasoning and reasonable arguments.

Null on Refa, I've liked his content but don't really see a lot of intent either way. I feel like he deserves a reread but I need to go off to a lab. Sorta leaning town, but mostly null.

I'm getting a net positive feeling from Eurykins, but there are a few things I don't understand, mostly the specifics of the BBM case.

Still liking eclipse's content least of all players at the moment, so I'll ##revote: eclipse

PEIDT: To the people who are getting a bad feeling from me, is there anything wrong with what I've been saying, or just how I've been acting? I've been saying things about people, but I haven't heard anything about whether you disagree with my logic, I think.

And wow that took longer than I expected; I won't be on till much later this evening.

[BBM]

quick comments before I go do more work for hours and hours

I think I realized what was bothering me about Eclipse's accusation that I'm attacking half the active players. She herself has argued against me and Trollstool, and a bit against Euklyd. Yeah, she did say that those latter two reads were weaker, but they still count as suspicions, and my own suspicion against Euklyd wasn't much stronger. It's pretty hypocritical to say I'm scummy for finding three players suspicious, when pretty much the same thing applies to her.

Also I think Shinori's critique of Refa's reads was decent. Particularly the bits about his reads on Euklyd and Objection. Refa's Euklyd read in particular baffled me.

[Percivalé]

I'm glad there are other people feeling weird about Refa too because so am I but it's a feeling that I can't really back up until I do a re-read after my meeting. I like some of Shinori's points on Refa's listpost but I can't be specific rn

[Refa]

Bizz - Good logic for her vote on euklyd and the rest of her play looks town to you, okay. Could you elaborate a bit on this?

There's not much more to say, other than I'm not seeing any scum intent in her posts at present. Obviously my reads will be less strong than later on when there are flips, more posts, etc., but thems the breaks.

Euklyd - You don't like how he's self concious, you agree that his votes and thoughts on his votes are silly, yet you say he's town because the things he's doing are counter-productive for scum to do. Yet you have him labeled as "Dumb town." What's the difference between dumb town and/or dumb scum?

Firstly, I've never said that his thoughts on his votes are silly; what I disagree with is his voting process. The difference between dumb town and dumb scum is that dumb town is more likely to make careless posts while dumb scum is more likely to lurk and make a few weak posts that will screw them over later on.

Princes Toadstool - "Hasn't done anything particularly helpful to town, but that could be because newb!town as much as it could be because he's scum. Reason that he's here is more because of a gut read rather than anything else." Okay, so you say he hasn't done anything really helpful for town and you admit that this could be because he could be both either noob town or scum. Yet you say he'smainly here because of a gut read. So why is he a gut read on dumb town vs dumb scum? Or why isn't he null? Why is your gut read saying he's town?

1) Because I don't feel like SB would make a newbie scum in his first game, although that has happened before, so I'm not discounting the possibility of that. 2) The definition of a gut read is that it's hard to explain. If I had more definite proof, don't you think I would have posted that?

I honestly can't help but feel that you may be a bit biased here. You have three of the newer players on your town reads of which two are under "Dumb town." for reasonings I don't quite agree with or see as proper. Then both BBM and eclipse who have posted plenty you have no real reads on? Why? They've posted enough for you to feel some sort of read on them.

Why would I be biased towards new players? And I have already explained my reads on BBM and Eclipse, a null read is not equivalent to no real read.

Also it's a bit silly that you're criticizing my lack of reads on BBM and Eclipse when you have barely posted any reads yourself.

Objection - Similar behavior yet you're not finding his actions scummy? Yet this makes him scum? This confuses me. I have a slight scum read on objection but it's defintely not because his actions aren't scummy. Like I don't quite understand this.

I'm not finding his RVS post scummy, I'm finding his lack of contributions and lurking scummy (this is something that he has done before as scum).

Refa is being wishy washy, going back and forth, etc.

That was a quick change, with no good reason. Unless you can provide me with one?

After checking my case on Polydeuces, I found that he's contributed more than you have. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him. However, I don't feel my case on you is particularly strong either, which is why I want to reevaluate BBM and Eclipse.

[Shinori]

You literally just explained you Bias to new players. You don't think that SB would make newb scum. Even though this is like a perfect game for a new player to be either scum or town to be frank since it's open set up, small player, and very simple to understand.

I was just posting that, I'm currently in a raid on WoW so can't post too much in between boss pulls. And if you have multiple new players as a town read because of that, you appear to be very lazy imo.

[eclipse]

This activity stinks to high heaven. Time to do something about it.

BBM - If you're allowed to complain about that, then I'm allowed to use your counter of "I'm trying to scumhunt". The difference is that I'm not trying to throw accusations until they stick. At this point, you're tunneling, and it's completely unproductive - Bizz mentioned that it'll be more helpful with flips, Shinori is looking elsewhere, Objection hasn't even mentioned us, and Refa's now got an excuse to read through something that's been beaten to death.

As for the Shinori/Refa thing, I like Shinori's points better. Refa also makes a point about Polydeuces that I do NOT like, and it's this:

After checking my case on Polydeuces, I found that he's contributed more than you have. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him. However, I don't feel my case on you is particularly strong either, which is why I want to reevaluate BBM and Eclipse.

Mosey into the FE4 thread and the RP section, and it's apparent that Polydeuces is present. He's not posting in the thread, which I think is THE biggest case against him (never mind Poly's sparse contribution - at least Objection is trying, despite his claimed schedule). . .behavior like that ticks me off, to the point where I'd be willing to policy lynch him (and possibly ban him from future games, because he went actively AWOL in Fakeclaim, too).

I have half a mind to claim, because it WILL generate discussion.

[MRDRHAWK]

I'm trying not to miss anything. I tend to keep on my other tabs though unless there's more stuff in here, though.

Plus, I've kept a tab open here to re-read the thread and have now built up some reads.

Also, before that, ##Unvote.

Town

Eury: Aside from a bit of unusual reasoning, her reads have been solid so far.

Eclipse: Again, some good arguments and is willing to do some quality scumhunting.

Refa: I'm leery of reading you after the hell of a misread I had in Snoop, but I just can't see you as anything aside from town at the moment.

BSK: Good on you for sticking to your guns with Euklyd, and I can see the logic behind your vote.

Null

BBM: Seems intent on taking me out, which seems really stupid considering I evidently suck ass at mafia, as opposed to BSK targeting an actual threat in Euk. Still, he's doing some other scumhunting as well, so I'm not too sure about going town on him yet.

Trollstool: Good be newbtown, could be scum. Not too sure yet, want to see a bit more.

Baldrick/Scorri: Hasn't been too active, so I can't pick anything up.

Shinori: Good points made with Euk's vote and subsequent immediate unvote on Eclipse. Not too sure about anything else with him though.

Scum

Objection: I still find him sketchy to a degree, but he's at least making an effort to out people if he is town. I'm not willing to vote him just yet.

Euklyd: Seems to be waffling a bit too much, what with all his crap with Eclipse. I'm feeling like he's the scummiest player here right now, and by a fair margin.

Therefore, ##Vote: Euklyd. IMO, it goes Euk > Objection > BBM > Trollstool > everyone else right now in terms of scumminess, but I'm still getting some town vibes from the latter two.

Mosey into the FE4 thread and the RP section, and it's apparent that Polydeuces is present. He's not posting in the thread, which I think is THE biggest case against him (never mind Poly's sparse contribution - at least Objection is trying, despite his claimed schedule). . .behavior like that ticks me off, to the point where I'd be willing to policy lynch him (and possibly ban him from future games, because he went actively AWOL in Fakeclaim, too).

Fair enough, I do need to be more active in here.

Though, I'm curious as to why Refa's reads are suddenly drawing criticism. Most of his reads aside from Euklyd (and myself, seeing as how I know I'm town, but that's up to you guys to judge) seem accurate enough to me, and the ones that look different from mine have good enough reasons to justify it (i.e, Eclipse being null instead of town).

Would love to see more out of Baldrick & Scorri, but I'm guessing they've got other stuff they're doing (as do I to a degree, seeing as how I'm in college ATM), so I suppose it can't be helped.

[eclipse]

The read that I didn't agree with was Refa's read on you, Poly. I think the listposts will be more valuable come D2; for now, they're on the periphery of my reads (and what is up with advertising your town reads, everyone?).

I forgot that scorri was playing. She's been around SF, as well (go check Frontier sign-ups).

As for scum reads, I don't think BBM's tunneling is productive, which is why my vote is where it is (if he's baffled by Refa's read, then why is he only mentioning it as an afterthought?). Euklyd's waffling on Yours Truly doesn't sit right with me, and his PEDIT in his last post comes across more as appeasement than anything. Refa's reads will be much more valuable come D2, which is why he's not a super-priority lynch target. As for you, Poly. . .I have no idea why you have Shinori down as null when you agree with his logic, nor do I care for the "pat on the back" in regards to Bizz. Like Refa, your reads will be much easier to analyze come D2.

Vote staying put on BBM, but will move to Euklyd if absolutely necessary. Everyone else is null/town, and you guys don't need to know the difference ATM.

[MRDRHAWK]

Shinori being null instead of fully town is simply because I'd not seen a whole ton from him, especially earlier on. I'd probably have put him town as well if I'd seen more early.

And I was going to mention Scorri's semi-activity as well right after posting my readlist, since it was when I saw that Scorri had been kicking around elsewhere on SF, but I figured it'd just be hypocritical so I just left it alone.

[Percivalé]

ughhh I really wish I had more to say but I really don't, at least not anything that anyone else hasn't already said.

I'm pretty sure I'll be a lot better D2 once we get flips and I'm a little less busy. Still would like Euklyd lynch today but at this rate I don't even know who else is a solid lynch candidate? Maybe Poly, I've seen scattered votes on BBM/Eclipse, idk. my reads are terrible

[Momentai~]

No honestly I've been around but most of pages 1 and 2 had nothing I felt that I wanted to respond to. That being said Objections statement about two votes on him seemed off. -Still need to read page 4. Herp.

One thing to note, I don't fully agree with the poly votes. Whereas some of what poly is saying is weird I think his reasoning for voting objection is fine and I honestly didn't like Objections reaction early on(Believe I commented on this) which he then followed up saying it was a joke which I don't believe.

In a league game, I'll be back later.

Uh, honestly wasn't voting him cause it slipped my mind as I was partially busy at the time and it didn't occur to me later to do that. That being said. I don't intend to vote him at the moment. I'd much rather do this.

##Vote: Euklyd

Not liking him at the moment. His back and forth with Eclipse doesn't seem the best and particularly I didn't lost his posts #79, #88, and #89

Didn't particularly like his vote/unvote on eclipse. It honestly seemed like he was voting just to vote as if to prod or just to get a question answered, not because he had a scum read on Eclipse. Following the unvote he said he had a scum read on Eclipse and Poly but didn't drop another vote on either after actually just unvoting Eclipse.

I kind of have the opposite issue (also reason for why I've mostly been pushing only Euklyd/Poly): I already have more townreads than scumreads, which is kind of weird. I mean it's early so that'll probably change soon but atm I don't have very many issues with other people. The BBM/Eclipse volley is interesting but doesn't mean much until people start flipping. (And I'll admit I haven't done close reading yet because I've been occupied.)

ONE thing though is BBM called Eclipse out for not liking Trollstool's statement earlier, which bugged me a little. I didn't find that unusual for Eclipse to do since she does that often and has done it with me too--and honestly I didn't like it either but I didn't think it was enough of a reason for a vote on my end. Also Refa meta'ing people off of himself but that's something I never like really.

**sidenote: my gender isn't specified but I prefer they/them or male pronouns if the former gets too confusing or you forget. Thank you!

Not counting me and baldrick since you don't really have us labeled.

Your town reads consist of:

Eury - her wall was good which I can get as valid reasoning.

Bizz - Good logic for her vote on euklyd and the rest of her play looks town to you, okay. Could you exagerate a bit on this?

Euklyd - You don't like how he's self concious, you agree that his votes and thoughts on his votes are silly, yet you say he's town because the things he's doing are counter-productive for scum to do. Yet you have him labeled as "Dumb town." What's the difference between dumb town and/or dumb scum?

Princes Toadstool - "Hasn't done anything particularly helpful to town, but that could be because newb!town as much as it could be because he's scum. Reason that he's here is more because of a gut read rather than anything else." Okay, so you say he hasn't done anything really helpful for town and you admit that this could be because he could be both either noob town or scum. Yet you say he'smainly here because of a gut read. So why is he a gut read on dumb town vs dumb scum? Or why isn't he null? Why is your gut read saying he's town?

I honestly can't help but feel that you may be a bit biased here. You have three of the newer players on your town reads of which two are under "Dumb town." for reasonings I don't quite agree with or see as proper. Then both BBM and eclipse who have posted plenty you have no real reads on? Why? They've posted enough for you to feel some sort of read on them.

Now to your scum reads.

Poly - Lack of actions + "Rather dubious" votes and explanations. Okay whatever I can understand that. Nothing to really argue here.

Objection - Similar behavior yet you're not finding his actions scummy? Yet this makes him scum? This confuses me. I have a slight scum read on objection but it's defintely not because his actions aren't scummy. Like I don't quite understand this.

So you have 3 newbies labeled as town, two of which are "Dumb town." Then you have an inactive person labeled as scum, even though his actions aren't scummy to you. Is Objection just another gut read for you?

Shinori is so honest. It comes across as, well, disingenuous to me when almost all of your posts contain that word. It might be a trivial thing to pick at you for but it bothers me enough to feel that it warrants a mention.

Everyone else: I can't say anything about you guys that other people haven't pointed out at one time or another. I'm having a really hard time with this lol.

[Shinori]

I could just say "To be frank." all the time if you would rather.

[eclipse]

You read through the entire game thread and got nothing but a verbal tic?!

[Momentai~]

Oops, I thought I took out all of the other users who used it (@random SK post in the middle). I wasn't saying anything about them, they didn't have their posts peppered with it.

[Momentai~]

You read through the entire game thread and got nothing but a verbal tic?!

Yeah, everyone else already picked out all the good stuff. :P

i'm just dumb

[scorri]

Ok, so, yeah. I've been busy and have been posting to a couple other places but kinda just kept... not posting over here. Sorry. I don't have an excuse so, yeah. I'm going to try to reread now, but the thing that stands out the most to me for the last few pages is Trollstool's decent activity but complete lack of reads to the point where he's nitpicking at Shinori for using the word honestly. Will try and get something more real in a bit.

[Refa]

Rereading the last few posts now, but just wanted to say

I have half a mind to claim, because it WILL generate discussion.

Obviously the decision is up to you in the end, but I don't think you should claim solely for the purpose of generating discussion.

Also scorri, you should like, post something.

[Refa]

Dammit ninja'd.

[eclipse]

Activity is sort of picking up now, albeit with a . I'm still weighing the pros and cons of this plan.

[Momentai~]

Okay I'm a bit confused here...

By 'reads' you guys mean... insights into the actions/patterns/habits of others?

[scorri]

eclipse threatening to claim doesn't really mean much one way or the other. It will give us all some interesting info, and maybe generate some discussion, but it's not really a town or scum tell. I'd agree with Refa that claiming for the sake of discussion alone is kinda ehhh but.

[scorri]

By reads I mean people that you think are scum.

[eclipse]

It's for a reason. This IS one-shot mafia.

[MRDRHAWK]

Claiming for discussion's sake seems dumb, IMO. It just makes it easy to get targeted if mafia sees a chance to shoot you during the night phase. I mean, it's your call, Eclipse, but I wouldn't do it for that reasoning.

The fact that Trollstool only got a verbal tic out of Shinori is kind of sad, but he could have a decent point if he keeps at it. There's better options for scumhunting right now, though.