Periodic Table of Elements ~Game Thread~ Game Over

[Grassbridger]

I still don't like the vibes I'm getting from Grass. It's like he's trying to jump on the easiest bandwagon atm, using the weakest of reasons to build on top of the scrutiny/suspicions that Prims and Manix already set up on BBM in order to validate his vote. That, by far, is more suspicious to me than BBM's emotional responses.

I'm not on the BBM wagon, as of #120 I acknowledged my reasoning was bad due to an assumption as SB pointed out and went back to see if that assumption was valid. It wasn't, so I unvoted BBM. Since you were obviously cut by my post, fine, but your follow-up is bad.

How does the fact that I unvoted BBM affect your read on me? Let me point out my progression of posts on BBM:

-I found him mostly null

-I did lots of research and thought I found a meta argument that made him scummy

-after someone pointed out that that was really dumb because of a logic error, I went back to my previous nullread

Poly was my next-biggest scumread (only other scumread) after BBM. I wasn't just voting him because of SB's statements. Go back: I was the first person to vote Poly (outside of RVS maybe) and I gave reasons for it. But SB has some good points on Poly that mean my read on him isn't fading.

Eury, you either aren't reading my posts or you're ignoring them. For your top scumread and current vote, that's pretty scummy--it looks like you're trying to manufacture a case.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

[Grassbridger]

Also: care to explain those "vibes" which resulted in your original vote on me?

[Eurykins]

I'm not on the BBM wagon, as of #120 I acknowledged my reasoning was bad due to an assumption as SB pointed out and went back to see if that assumption was valid. It wasn't, so I unvoted BBM. Since you were obviously cut by my post, fine, but your follow-up is bad.

How does the fact that I unvoted BBM affect your read on me? Let me point out my progression of posts on BBM:

-I found him mostly null

-I did lots of research and thought I found a meta argument that made him scummy

-after someone pointed out that that was really dumb because of a logic error, I went back to my previous nullread

Poly was my next-biggest scumread (only other scumread) after BBM. I wasn't just voting him because of SB's statements. Go back: I was the first person to vote Poly (outside of RVS maybe) and I gave reasons for it. But SB has some good points on Poly that mean my read on him isn't fading.

Eury, you either aren't reading my posts or you're ignoring them. For your top scumread and current vote, that's pretty scummy--it looks like you're trying to manufacture a case.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

*yawns* The bolded part is more the thing, not so much the latter. I mused through most of the other pages, albeit with a tired mind.

Italicized: It's called a gut feeling. I plainly stated in my first meaningful post in this thread: I do not trust you at all. I simply am getting suspicion/untrustworthy vibes from you from the get-go, just as I did from Shinori in the One-shot thread (who flipped scum in that thread). Am I not supposed to push for my gut feelings?

[Grassbridger]

No, that's fine, but you should be trying to figure out why you were feeling that way, to figure out if it's valid or not.

Actually you even sheeped those vibes from Manix, so I'd be real interested to hear if you can justify them.

That combination sarcastic/condescending response makes you seem worse to me.

[SB.]

If you read the top of Eury's #124, it's implied that she was making her last post while you shifted your vote. Eury should ISO Grass and see if she can see where the gutread is coming from.

[Grassbridger]

Actually you even sheeped those vibes from Manix, so I'd be real interested to hear if you can justify them.

disregard this, they're different posts, I'm bad

SB: yeah I acknowledged she was cut

[MRDRHAWK]

So you're voting based on something one person said, as opposed to putting your own thoughts/reads down on Poly?

He's voting me based on my evaluation of BBM's play being "too elaborate" for D1, which is semi-true and relies a lot on my experience playing with BBM (and is also pretty par for the course with me, but he can be easily excused for not knowing that since the only other game he's played with me is Fakeclaim which I more or less ditched), but ehhhhhhhhh.

SB's read on me seems to make him think I'm waffling, which, to be honest, seems pretty obvious for the first few hours. And, for the record SB, I wasn't serious with the Boron thing, though I am serious with my current Refa vote. While my RVS was obvious RVS stuff, right now he seems to be playing like a quieter version of his Snoop self, and he flipped scum then, so I'm getting a scumread on him right now.

Eury, the fact that you glossed over his reasons to jump him seems kinda suspicious to me, but I swear this is, like, the only thing I've seen you post in here so far, so I'm ignoring it for now.

As for the other stuff I noticed since I slept last night:

-I really want to see more out of Boron (read: not discussing the early Manix/BBM/Prims interactions) and for Shmomei (both halves) to show up. That said, if BBM flips scum after all, I'm immediately jumping to reading scum!Boron because her ISOs are essentially defending BBM and saying his play is like C9++ when he was town as opposed to scum!BBM.

-I think BBM's being really stupid by declaring his unwillingness to post for the rest of the day. It makes him look super scummy to a lot of people, and, in fact, if I wasn't so dead-set on scum!Refa, I'd switch to BBM because that's just bad.

-Going back to Grass, his initial vote on me (before he switched to BBM and SB came to vote me as well) was bad because it wasn't very well-reasoned. His jumping back onto me via SB's case seems legit enough for an ED1 vote, though, so I'm not too concerned about potential jumpy scum play from him because of that. What's more concerning to me IMO, is the fact that he's using emotion!meta for BBM being town just to jump back onto lynching me, which I'd love an actual explanation for.

-Kirsche is playing standard kirsche play, nothing else to really say. Probably the easiest townread for me thus far.

[Eurykins]

No, that's fine, but you should be trying to figure out why you were feeling that way, to figure out if it's valid or not.

Actually you even sheeped those vibes from Manix, so I'd be real interested to hear if you can justify them.

That combination sarcastic/condescending response makes you seem worse to me.

I'm pretty sure my own feelings towards you are how I feel, not based off someone else's thoughts/feelings. Just as a lot of people here are bussing for BBM's lynch, I'm not flowing along with their thoughts, but my own. (Saw your post)

And, though it wasn't said in a condescending manner specifically, I'm making it plain and simple that you're no one I'm out to impress/win over in any way. If I do not trust you, then I will not offer any sort of friendliness or effort to create good bridges with you unless I end up learning something/feel that I can trust you. I'm not saying that you (by any means) need to go out of your way to be friendly with me, but I prefer keeping my feelings/impressions clear and easy to see. If I like/trust someone, then I may be more pleasant, as opposed to someone I clearly do not trust to have my back to for even a second.

@SB: Yeah, I'll go do that. Might as well before raiding starts tonight.

[Grassbridger]

What's more concerning to me IMO, is the fact that he's using emotion!meta for BBM being town just to jump back onto lynching me, which I'd love an actual explanation for.

emotion!meta for BBM is currently "well this is different; it's pretty null though." For a moment I thought it was scummy, then SB pointed out my logical flaw. So it's not so much that the emotion is townie as that I first thought it was scummy and now I don't. Going back to voting you was due to previous read + SB's arguments as stated.

FWIW my vote was poorly articulated because late at night + ED1

[scorri]

And, though it wasn't said in a condescending manner specifically, I'm making it plain and simple that you're no one I'm out to impress/win over in any way. If I do not trust you, then I will not offer any sort of friendliness or effort to create good bridges with you unless I end up learning something/feel that I can trust you.

General reminder of Rule 0. Not trusting someone doesn't mean you need to be condescending or rude.

[MRDRHAWK]

emotion!meta for BBM is currently "well this is different; it's pretty null though." For a moment I thought it was scummy, then SB pointed out my logical flaw. So it's not so much that the emotion is townie as that I first thought it was scummy and now I don't. Going back to voting you was due to previous read + SB's arguments as stated.

FWIW my vote was poorly articulated because late at night + ED1

Fair enough. Do you have any reads aside from what you've already articulated?

Also, Eury's going at Grass seems kinda defensive and/or forced to me. Sure, Grass doesn't have a ton of stuff for Eury to ISO/work with, and a lot of it is ED1, but I'm still getting a bad rub from it.

Right now, I'd say my lynch priority is as follows:

Refa (Quieter Snoop!Refa = still scum) > Shmomei (need more from either of them to move them down) > Boron (if BBM gets lynched + flips scum, otherwise she's town IMO) > Eury (seems really dickish right now)

I'm kinda ehhhhhhhh on my 2nd and 3rd options, and I don't care to vote BBM like a few others have done as of now, since I'm indifferent on him thus far.

[Eurykins]

General reminder of Rule 0. Not trusting someone doesn't mean you need to be condescending or rude.

As stated above, neither of which I explicitly said I meant with my post. If it came off as such, then I apologize. Perhaps my wording was just poor with my post.

[scorri]

And like I said, it was a general reminder. While it may have been triggered by your post, yours is not the only instance of me wanting to remind people of the rule.

[Eurykins]

Mmmm, true enough. Thanks again, Scorri.

Refa (Quieter Snoop!Refa = still scum) > Shmomei (need more from either of them to move them down) > Boron (if BBM gets lynched + flips scum, otherwise she's town IMO) > Eury (seems really dickish right now)

I'm kinda ehhhhhhhh on my 2nd and 3rd options, and I don't care to vote BBM like a few others have done as of now, since I'm indifferent on him thus far.

Eh, probably my fault for posting while lacking decent sleep over the past few days. So I'm probably being more blunt/snarky than need be, which is why I'm contemplating putting posting/reading the thread until later/tomorrow if possible, so I can get a chance to read things and reply without needlessly sounding like an ass.

[SB.]

SB's read on me seems to make him think I'm waffling, which, to be honest, seems pretty obvious for the first few hours. And, for the record SB, I wasn't serious with the Boron thing, though I am serious with my current Refa vote. While my RVS was obvious RVS stuff, right now he seems to be playing like a quieter version of his Snoop self, and he flipped scum then, so I'm getting a scumread on him right now.

Can people stop saying "X is playing like he did in Y" without actually giving reasons for it? I can see how BBM's getting annoyed with it. And your Refa vote didn't seem serious at all at the time.

-I really want to see more out of Boron (read: not discussing the early Manix/BBM/Prims interactions) and for Shmomei (both halves) to show up. That said, if BBM flips scum after all, I'm immediately jumping to reading scum!Boron because her ISOs are essentially defending BBM and saying his play is like C9++ when he was town as opposed to scum!BBM.

What makes me different from Boron when I've been defending BBM too?

-I think BBM's being really stupid by declaring his unwillingness to post for the rest of the day. It makes him look super scummy to a lot of people, and, in fact, if I wasn't so dead-set on scum!Refa, I'd switch to BBM because that's just bad.

Frustration can come from townies too. I'm pretty sure scorri gave up posting for a night in one game because she'd had enough before.

-Going back to Grass, his initial vote on me (before he switched to BBM and SB came to vote me as well) was bad because it wasn't very well-reasoned. His jumping back onto me via SB's case seems legit enough for an ED1 vote, though, so I'm not too concerned about potential jumpy scum play from him because of that. What's more concerning to me IMO, is the fact that he's using emotion!meta for BBM being town just to jump back onto lynching me, which I'd love an actual explanation for.

I don't think he ever townread BBM via meta. What he did was realize that his reasons that he voted BBM for were wrong and so he took his vote off, he never said that he was town for it. The emotion = town thing is coming from me, and it isn't even BBM's meta, he just reads like frustrated town to me.

[SB.]

of course i got cut five times or something while posting that but whatever

[Zkirsche]

WRT everyone saying that BBM is way too emotional to be town, why is this? Would like an explanation.

Scum generally get more annoyed than town. There's no real logic behind this, perhaps it's because they have more to lose, but that's irrelevant. What is relevant is that it's a common trend of scum behaviour, and it's definitely a behaviour that BBM has shown before (in AM/PM for example, he was getting really defensive about his meta, which is what he's done here).

The emotion = town thing is coming from me, and it isn't even BBM's meta, he just reads like frustrated town to me.

Why?

GB's vote on eury is also guilty of being very defensive, looks kind of like an OMGUS. You're free to find someone's logic bad and criticise it to defend yourself, but bad logic isn't scummy by itself. Surely what Poly's done is worse than just voting someone for poor reasoning? Aren't you guilty of doing the same thing earlier?

[SB.]

-I think BBM's being really stupid by declaring his unwillingness to post for the rest of the day. It makes him look super scummy to a lot of people, and, in fact, if I wasn't so dead-set on scum!Refa, I'd switch to BBM because that's just bad.

I'm kinda ehhhhhhhh on my 2nd and 3rd options, and I don't care to vote BBM like a few others have done as of now, since I'm indifferent on him thus far.

Hi there contradiction.

[Zkirsche]

SB that is some impressive double posting. Never saw that happen before.

BBM >> Grass > Poly atm in case anyone's wondering.

[SB.]

Agree with kirsche on the OMGUS thing, was thinking it myself but forgot to add it to my post.

I can see town!BBM getting frustrated because when I get annoyed as town, it's due to me thinking that the cases on me are awful, and as scum I get annoyed due to PoE/setup stuff. Considering it's D1, I doubt he's worrying about what the setup is like.

[Zkirsche]

That might be your meta, but BBM has been known to get very touchy about his meta when he's scum because it frustrates him as it's something he can't argue against.

[SB.]

I dunno, but it's how I feel about his play anyway. I can kind of see where your logic comes from on it but I don't agree, don't think it's scummy or anything though.

[Prims]

@Prims

I would like to know why I stood above the other people who had similar first posts to mine.

You had a second post which was serious but vague and seemed like noncontent. I'm fine with you after your reply but pls cut down on the words.

Still down with BBM lynch. People arguing that outing townreads isn't scummy are missing the context, which is what makes him scummy, not the fact that he said he thought Manix was town. Content-wise nothing BBM has posted recently makes me want to move my vote; the comparisions to AM/PM and Snooping are in that he got caught over something minor and got REALLY OFFENDED people were voting him and started posting more about saving himself than trying to read other people. Defending yourself as a major D1 target is normal, but when it dwarfs your attempts to scumhunt it's scummy, and BBM is just kind of sitting on the Grass vote as is. "Poly could be town" is a bad reason for Grass being scummy because town can vote town.

Unimpressed with Eury since her input can be boiled down to "vibes" and a bunch of indecisive comments. I can understand gut reads but using it to totally ignore somebody's defense is slimy imo, and also her reaction to Grass' Poly revote looks like she's just trying to jump him for anything she can find since Grass had an explained Poly vote earlier on.

I get Grass' case but think Poly is too :hype: to be scum. Doesn't seem like he's grasping so much as actively participating but not being able to explain his thought process. Wouldn't lynch Poly, indifferent to Grass.

[Sunwoo]

Gah, my Internet just force exploded on me. Give me some time to get a response written up.

[Zkirsche]

Shmobum and Meibum really should post, forgot they existed until I was sent to the signups thread courtesy of Boron's post.