Healer Mafia - D6 ends on Dec. 15 at 8:00 PM HST

[Zkirsche]

Because they've all proved their roles except Poly, and scum Courier has no purpose except as a safeclaim. And Poly's in-thread behaviour, regardless of alignment, doesn't match up in any way with the caginess of the Courier that messaged Elie.

Yes and scum have multiple roles so why can't one of them be a scum courier for safeclaiming purposes?

I think kirsche not claiming is dumb because there's no way in hell his role is that good

Not going to claim until I am seriously put up for lynch.

I don't get how Courier = Arsonist, someone please explain this to me

When Manix voyeur'd Prims he saw that an arsonist visited him but not courier, which implies that either the courier is a ninja(in which case they should probably claim) or "priming" and "couriering" are one and the same.

Regardless, the person I'm the most suspicious of is still Shinori

Where's youre vote then?

Don't get me wrong about Shin, I still think he's townie (wait...didn't Manix or someone prove he was town or something? Because that'd bump him up to town reads) it's just...his role man. I don't get it, I really don't.

Venno said he visited him N1 and that he found nothing suspicious. He, and Elie, are clear.

[Refa]

Also good lord refa a few posts above yours, I organized the in thread claimed results from shinori. And you didn't explain why I'm your second scum read. And prims claimed miller too btw

Oh, right...I'm a genius.

Actually, wow, Shinori's results are like, wow. His N3 result better be useful...Actually, why did Shinori target scorri N2? Isn't Watcher supposed to target likely night kills? I still don't get these unexplained redirects, and considering nobody has claimed then, I'm inclined to believe SOMEONE is lying about them.

Also it's because ITP spec. I'm doing some rereads right now to see if that's all there is to it (AKA I'm not seeing any scum intent in your actions) in addition to BBM, scorri, kirsche, and Shinori.

Refa, grass hooked bbm so whether or not bbm idled, he wouldny have done anything

*facepalm* I'm an idiot. Considering my suspicion on BBM was based mostly on ITP spec, I guess that clears him! Saves me a reread at least. I guess he could still be scum, but I was townreading him before my ITP crusade, so I'm not too compelled to reread him at the moment (also you know being lazy and all).

So that leaves you, kirsche, scorri, and Shinori. Brilliant. Also considering all of the scum sided kills, I just thought of another power role kirsche could be (some sort of Vig) but I really don't see why he'd hide it this long and it's not really benefiting town at this point!

With regards to BBM's post: I have no idea what investigation role Prims would be (actually, he said it would be particularly harsh on SK, so rolecop maybe?), but what you say makes sense. Oh, OK, didn't notice that bit about your action, honestly having a bit of trouble with all of these claimed roles and redirecting actions. Yeah, I don't think Shinori is lying about (what he's mentioned of) his role, or at least the Watcher part (has anyone been roleblocked? I guess if Elieson is roleblocked tonight that'll turn out to be true) his actual role, which is why I'm pretty really sure he's not mafia. Still think he's scum.

Oh, right. Yeah, I would agree there (I guess that's where the cop crumb was too considering how many roles were revealed...ugh, I wish I had caught that).Man, this is pretty good though, my ISO list has been trimmed to 3 and my town reads have not been proven wrong except the two town reads I had on scum also the two (or more, I didn't count) scum reads I had on town OK my reads have been pretty awful this game.

Actually, speaking about my actions, on N2 (if I'm right about what SB did), Vhaltz and Grassbridger were bussed. So this means that arsonist did not prim on the same night as the kill (unless arsonist originally targeted Grassbridger but I think I already went over why that wouldn't make sense). Unless there's some sort of limitation to the number of people arsonist can prim/kill, I think this does mean that arsonist can't prim and kill on the same day (which probably means 2 kills today...whee). Also means I can't redirect SK kill, not yay. :( Neigh.

So I guess quick rethoughts because apparently I'm a twat, but in ascending to descending order of towniness, it's Refa = Elieson = Shin >>> BBM > Prims > Manix > Polydeuces > kirsche > scorri > Shinori

Also forgot to vote Shinori, that was dumb of me.

##Vote: Shinori

[Shin]

Shin is the most likely arsonist imo. I'll re-read the thread tomorrow.

Woops, I was going to do another post but then night ended. In all honesty I can see where you're coming from, especially considering how bad my role would seem otherwise. I've looked up arsonist and I was just wondering if the kill flavour would have anything to do with fire? Refa, I think it works by having someone "primed" as one action, and another action would be to "ignite" and kill everyone primed. Considering we had no N1 kill, an N2 kill and no N3 kill, it'd make sense. If Prims has been visited by our theoretical arsonist, logically that would make him a kill target for N4, maybe even N5 if the arsonist defers a night.

However, that alone isn't really enough. I don't know how feasible an even night SK is, although it's already been demonstrated that odd/even night roles exist. Most of my reads have actually died and turned out town. and Venno pretty much confirmed Eli as town. Since Poly's implied he's backup something which revealed when Venno died, I'd be able to hazard a guess to what it is. Considering he's been saying he's back-up for a while now, I'd be somewhat inclined to believe it.

I don't really feel confident putting a vote down on anyone just yet. I have a few posts this phase, I'll put one down once I feel someone who piques my interest. Right now my finger's in the general direction of kirsche and BBM, although that's more a gutread right now than anything else.

[Elieson]

Has refa ever been this incomprehensible before?

I have a few suspicions on what kirsche might be, considering his incredible resistance to claim (when he is like, the only person who hasn't claimed, bar prims I guess?)

Also something in manix's very first post suggests that he isnt scum (the part about the martyr that is in quote blocks). I'd quote it but phone arg.

And enough holding off, I have my thoughts and I'll pursue them accordingly

##Vote kirsche

>FOS Polydeuces

Unlike my doubts on poly, I don't have much reason to see townkirsche atm

[Zkirsche]

My role becomes useless when claimed.

I don't want to say anymore.

Also why am I scum aside from not wanting to claim?

[Zkirsche]

Well it's not completely useless, but it might as well be.

[Refa]

I feel like I've spent most of the game tunneling in on Shinori, so I'm going to give him a break (of sorts) as far as my ISO read order is concerned and do scorri's first.

-I think scorri was one of the first people to begin scumreading Shinori, so if he does flip mafia she's probably not his scumbuddy. Then again, the scumteam this game has been all kinds of whack, but I feel confident in this one!

-Actually, I don't see how Shinori could be mafia period considering his role which I'm inclined to believe at least the watcher part is true

-Her lack of scumreads is kind of really bad, actually! She suspected SB and um...Shinori D1 before suddenly switching to the Eury wagon at the end of the day. Then on D2...nothing. Not even a vote. And on D3...nothing. And it's not because of business, she's clearly been active and posting a lot (unlike Shinori, who just hasn't been here much at all).

-The fact that a good deal of her posts are role related yet I have no clue what her role even is just annoys me. Eh, I wouldn't say it's scummy, but it sure as hell isn't protown play.

OK, now onto Shinori, guess he didn't get that much of a break after all. I don't want to trod over proven ground, so know that unless I said otherwise, I am generally in agreement with my past arguments and am only pointed out NEW SCUMMY THINGS that I've noticed here...if there are any, I dunno.

-I think his lynch priority is actually fairly consistent, save for me who he suddenly dropped after D1.

That's...really all I've noticed. However, reading back, while I am honestly bothered by some actions of Shinori, I feel like as a whole he's been a lot more active and memorable (this is the key word, since both SK and scum don't benefit from that) than the other players I'm bothered by. I'll look into kirsche and reconsider if I need too (but I really don't see me voting kirsche over my current read, but for now the one who bothers me most is OBVIOUS

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

Too lazy to repost the whole list, but basically rearrange the people I'm bothered by too scorri > Shinori > kirsche. Might change kirsche around I guess depending on his ISO, but I don't think my other reads are going to change around anytime soon.

Has refa ever been this incomprehensible before?

No. I blame it on the fact that I'm not looking over my posts at all before posting them usually I'm pretty meticulous about that. Bad play on my part I suppose, but I really have a lot to get off of my mind. Hopefully my current and later posts will be more trimmed down and have a lot less fluff.

[Elieson]

Because you defended me without a role backing your defense, and anytime anyone does this, they're scum gg

[spoiler=Just a small thing]

On a super minor note, that's more annoying than anything else;

unless my Home PC, work PC and phone are botched, I can't see like 60% of your quoted content.

Your more recent posts haven't had much content/contribution in them, despite the fact that we have quite a bit of information on the table to discuss. It seems like you're simply refusing to grasp the concept of the courier(s) having a secondary role to combine with them, which at this point, would make absolute sense due to you being the pretty much only unclaimed person there is.

I feel like the majority of your contribution (read, the last thing I remember you doing) are pursuing a Polydeuces case and expressing your uncertainty on everyone's reads.

Going back further, I feel that the foundation of your grass vote was lame. see this for a blind assumption on manix's "Info" and uhh, whatever that last line was about, and this for finding grass scummy because of throwing his vote around, despite having reasons backing his votehopping. I'd argue this as hindsight is blahblah, but I don't think that the grass wagon was filled entirely with members of town. Quick post analysis from the 7 voters on Grass by phase end give me:

Prims (who I am reading town due to behavior regarding a quickhammer, and pushing the grass lynch so stupidly hard

Manix (who I am reading town due to various posts and content here and there, despite my vote on Manix post-phase that was mostly out of spite.)

Poly, which I've explained my stance on.

BBM, which I'm null on since grass hooked him pre-arson night and I don't see him as scummy this game

Venno, who is loldead thanks for scanning me

Refa, who is reading as irritating town due to madwalls of incomprehensible blah

and you, who I'm just uncomfortable with

Not to mention your complete votepark on Grass since pretty much D2.

If your role is what I think it is, I can see you not wanting to out it, but I see both town reasons for not wanting to out a specific role (which if it's what I think it is, it's not doing much benefit atm anyway), and scum reasons for not wanting to out a specific role because trying to bide time for something later.

[Refa]

Actually, if anyone ignored my huge list posts things (which I can understand, I find them a PITA to read myself) but is afraid for asking me for clarification on something (like who I think is scum or why I suspect someone) because WHAT IF IT WAS IN THE LIST POST then don't be. I'll just summarize what I said from my list posts so it's not super tl,dr;.

[Elieson]

2. Kaoz (Doesn't really matter since we can't vote for him anyway)

Doing this because I can, and it doesn't matter if I don't.

Town

Elieshin (EN Compulsive Redirector) (Insomniac)

Bizz Manix (Voyeur)

Shinori (Watcher + Future Hooker)

Prims (Miller+?)

BBM (Safeguard)

Refa (Driver + SB's Mason??

scorri (Follower)
Polydeuces (Backup Cop)

kirsche (?)
Not Town

The underlined parts are things that I'm uncertain about atm I thought prims claimed Rolecop somewhere but then again I kind of think he was joking, and Refa, how exactly did that thing work with you and SB again?

[Elieson]

because might as well sort these questions out:

Prims: what do you display as if scanned??

Refa: That thing where you were told SB was town. How'd that come about again? Also, you're just a plain ol' driver now? What have your targets been

Poly: Who would you lynch right now, top 2.

Shinori: why did you target scorri back on whatever night that was?\

BBM: Just how gay are you? Also if you're safeguard, why did you just announce that you wouldn't be on Polydeuces? Don't actually answer this, I'm just asking it because I need to get it off my chest.

kirsche: Why would you say this when building your reads?

*Pending other people's suspects.

[Elieson]

Also also because no one tells me to keep secrets anymore

Mr/Mrs Courier, in response to you, I say:

1) Generally pretty blah, mostly like D1 content, but all game. (wrt scorri). Needs to contribute more, hence the low placement on my chart.
2) Actually, rereading your questions make me wonder. I'll have to take a closer look at BBM.
3) See this for my thoughts on Poly.
4) Look above by like 2 posts, you'll see it. Subject to shuffle the bottom 3 depending on information / answers to my questions
5) I'm extremely gay.

I do have my doubts on this being from kaoz (despite it saying I'M NOT KAOZ) because I don't see Kaoz wanting to ask if I'm gay, but that's my meta read of him talking).

[Refa]

I'm not sure about any claims, but this is why I thought that Prims was Rolecop.

Yeah I've been paranoid about scum!scorri all game lol. but the play is town @_@

I'm actually the least likely Sk candidate because my results are geared more toward catching a SK than catching scum. Roleblock just made it hard for me to get useful results. Gimmick roles man

Anyways, with regards to SB and me being like masons, it's...not exactly like that. Ugh, not really sure how much I can say on this again, but basically I knew Vanille was confirmed town, but not that SB was Vanille, if that makes sense? Also, if you look closely, you can see me crumbing my rolename a lot early on. ;p Actually, SB crumbed it too early on, but I was too stupid and missed it.

Actually, SB talked a lot about this if you read his ISO, lol. Regardless, this was the "obvious" crumb I was thinking about at the time.

We're not Masons, don't want to get into why until I claim (could be wrong but i hope not and based on certain posts if he isn't I'm going to be very confused)

But I guess he would say that if we were simply codrivers and not proven town to each other too? I think SB's posts are kind of implying something of that sort though, but this is coming from a biased perspective, so come with your own conclusions or w/e. I don't think there's really much more I can say on this subject.

[MRDRHAWK]

Poly: Who would you lynch right now, top 2.

Kirsche and Scorri.

Kirsche because FMPOV his content seems like he's trying to coast through the game undetected as a low-end scum role (and his unwillingness to claim, even if it's a fakeclaim, rubs me the wrong way too because he's the only one who hasn't at least crumbed their role), and Scorri because I'm not sure whether or not Prims would be worth a lynch, and if anybody's lying about their role, it's probably her.

I'd much rather Kirsche over anyone else today, and then I can scan someone else tonight.

[Zkirsche]

Your more recent posts haven't had much content/contribution in them, despite the fact that we have quite a bit of information on the table to discuss. It seems like you're simply refusing to grasp the concept of the courier(s) having a secondary role to combine with them, which at this point, would make absolute sense due to you being the pretty much only unclaimed person there is.

Well, in terms of role stuff, I can't contribute when I am not the one whose got these voyeur/watchereque reports. As for general scumhunting, I've been prodding at reads as soon as I came into today and IMO reads and the reasoning behind them are important for scumhunting so what is wrong with me prodding at them again?

Also I said earlier that scum can have multiple roles so I have grasped that concept.

Going back further, I feel that the foundation of your grass vote was lame.

When someone says "Here's the info I got last night: Grass is scum" I think "Hmm, this guy has an incriminating result on someone, so I will trust in him and watch the flip". I'm not going to go rolefishing to see what his result was and for him to clarify it. I didn't even realise he didn't have such an incriminating report until the end of D3 due to being very busy which is why I had parked on him. (I was parking on what I thought was a cop guilty or equivalent).

despite having reasons backing his votehopping.

Even if you have reasons I feel that votehopping means that you don't have a strong enough scumread to hold onto which is bad.

I don't think that the grass wagon was filled entirely with members of town. Quick post analysis from the 7 voters on Grass by phase end give me:

So from PoE based on an assumption about a wagon?

kirsche: Why would you say this when building your reads?

Because knowing who suspects who may change my view of either the suspected or the suspectees (depending on the arguments).

Kirsche because FMPOV his content seems like he's trying to coast through the game undetected

I have literally posted every time I have been on and people have been calling me unmemorable all game so if I was around more to actually post I would have started doing so before late D3 because if I was scum trying to coast I'd know the jig was up and that it'd just make me look worse to keep going.

Also do you have anything to say about my case on you? It feels like you've just ignored my post where I voted you.

[MRDRHAWK]

Also do you have anything to say about my case on you? It feels like you've just ignored my post where I voted you.

First of all, not too much of a case.

Second, why is it bad to know who people targeted? Unless they're scum, it shouldn't be a bad thing to ask for targets.

Third, I used PoE as a placeholder because I haven't liked your content.

3.5, I'm not voting you because you don't have a lot of content, I'm voting you because I don't like what content you have.

Fourth, you're using an obvious joke statement and a general statement as grounds to say "oh Poly's acting defensive"? lmao.

[Zkirsche]

First of all, not too much of a case.

Rolefishing, weak cases and being overly defensive is more substantial a case than "This guy hasn't posted much so he must be trying to coast" which is all you have said with regards to me.

Second, why is it bad to know who people targeted? Unless they're scum, it shouldn't be a bad thing to ask for targets.

Because the more info we keep from scum the better.

Third, I used PoE as a placeholder because I haven't liked your content.

Like what, what parts of my content do you not like?

Fourth, you're using an obvious joke statement and a general statement as grounds to say "oh Poly's acting defensive"? lmao.

Even jokes are part of the game. "Stop lynching me every damn time" is obvious a joke, but it's a reaction to something, and that something is what, exactly? You didn't exactly have a lot of pressure at the time you made that comment or the other "general statement" so why you made them is what I'm criticising.

Also, what do you think of BBM's/Elie's cases on you? It's not just my case that you've neglected.

[scorri]

First off, I'm not follower. Never claimed to be follower, never will claim to be follower. Second, I haven't full claimed in thread. I'm not *going* to full claim in thread unless I absolutely need to because there's no damn reason for me to full claim in thread. I suspect that Manix might have a decent guess for what I am, but even that's probably not completely right. My role is weird, and awesome, but it's nothing that people would consider standard. It's also not especially useful to things right now.

Moving on.

-I think scorri was one of the first people to begin scumreading Shinori, so if he does flip mafia she's probably not his scumbuddy. Then again, the scumteam this game has been all kinds of whack, but I feel confident in this one!

-Actually, I don't see how Shinori could be mafia period considering his role which I'm inclined to believe at least the watcher part is true

-Her lack of scumreads is kind of really bad, actually! She suspected SB and um...Shinori D1 before suddenly switching to the Eury wagon at the end of the day. Then on D2...nothing. Not even a vote. And on D3...nothing. And it's not because of business, she's clearly been active and posting a lot (unlike Shinori, who just hasn't been here much at all).

-The fact that a good deal of her posts are role related yet I have no clue what her role even is just annoys me. Eh, I wouldn't say it's scummy, but it sure as hell isn't protown play.

-Here's a thing about how scorri isn't scum if Shinori is!

-But wait, Shinori's totes not scum, so that above point was useless.

-She hasn't had scum reads on anyone (this point is valid, I'll give you that)

-All her posts are role related but I don't know what her role is! (That's because there's been no need for me to claim my role, but there has been reason for me to discuss the results caused by my role. So really this point is just elaborate role fishing and I don't like it one bit)

So basically, your case comes down to I have no scum reads and rolefishing.

While it's true that I don't have a lot of scum reads, at least my lack of vote yesterday can be explained. Everyone was focusing super hard on Grass who I was townreading at that point due to claimed actions and also because of ~tone~ and stuff. It was a gut instinct mostly, but I was arguing against lynching him. No one was listening and there was basically zero point to me putting down a vote because a) no one would listen and b) I wasn't 100% sure who I think is scum. I'm still not sure and yeah, I probably should have laid down a vote. But I didn't. Eh.

As for a lack of scum reads, it's largely because while I've had time to quickly read the thread and respond to points, I haven't had a whole lot of time to actually go back and reread things. Currently off the top of my head, Poly's rolefishing and quickness to claim cop backup aren't sitting great with me, but also the random extra courier we've had appear seems off as well. Especially since no one else has claimed to have been couriered in past days. Something doesn't feel quite right here.

[Grace]

>two couriers

yeah I had a feeling. that might explain the vhaltz kill then

i only skimmed the thread because I just woke up, rip me

since no one is claiming courier, one of them is definitely non-town

my brain is still mostly dead and I need to read these posts in more detail :/

[Grace]

Actually, Manix. What was the message that you got? Was it like a list questionnaire that prims/sb seem to have received?

negative. it was about two lines telling me to 1) apologise for yesterday (which I do; in terms of saying potentially offending things, but content-wise i'm not sorry), 2) think about the info I have again, and 3) that the list of questions (from prims/sb) weren't posed by this courier.

Are you gay?

Relates to this

not in any context of the game. explained the linked post above.

im gay

also on the courier discussion, I don't remember if I said this but mine definitely sounded like Kaoz. Its tone matches his perfectly.

If Manix isn't lying about his Courier visit (meaning that there are indeed 2 couriers), I still don't see how either of them are guaranteed to be scum.

because no one has claimed either of them... which leads to the implication that courier/prime is one and the same. kaoz is probably just courier, while some unclaimed person is going around getting info from people without it being revealed to the general public. doesn't that ring a few bells?

Isn't Watcher supposed to target likely night kills?

yes, but shinori isn't watcher. read his claim again.

other news:

i thought prims was crumbing rolecop all game until D3, fite me

kirsche being cagey about his claim isn't making me feel any better considering most have claimed at least something. him claiming notcourier basically confirms that one of the couriers (probably the questionlisting one) is non-town

i think that's all I need to clarify at this point.

[MRDRHAWK]

k, fuck it. I'd like to request either a sub or a modkill that won't punish my faction (town, btw).

I'm having a hard time mentally right now and would like to pull out of this game to see if it helps at all.

[Shinori]

Shinori: why did you target scorri back on whatever night that was?\

I was curious about things I had weird feelings about her, decided I would visit her in an attempt to see if anyone else would visit her and see if that gave me any info or not.

I haven't been around so I'm working on getting caught up, but what's the possibility that scorri and bbm are actually scum and bbm safeguarded scorri while she did the kill? I think this could probably be labeled as grasping but it was a random thing that popped into my head while reading BBM's post #1224.

Anyway I'm working on getting caught up.

[scorri]

My role makes absolutely no sense as scum. It would be extremely OP if it works the way I believe it does, and that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Shinori]

You've been hinting that you are some insanely strong role.

Why aren't you dead?

[BBM]

Why would I want to Safeguard Scorri (if we were scumbuddies) anyways? The Tracker was dead, Grass wasn't going to hook her, and the majority of the thread thought she was town so I don't think she really had to worry about a Cop inspect either.

Shinori isn't really Watcher but he is a weaker version, sort of, and I don't think it's very likely for both his role and Eury's role to be scum.