Personal Favorite Ests

[eclipse]

Perhaps I did misread a fair bit and stepped out of line. Report my recent posts. I should get warned for that idiotic rant

If I were to report posts, there would be warnings flying all over the place. Just remember the lesson, all of you, and keep it civil. Your opinion is just that, and no matter how backwards you think someone else's is, they're entitled to it.

[Nicolas]

An Est that is incredibly good right from the beginning is hardly an est.

Yeah, IIRC Sara ORKO at base. And she is probably good at 0%. Just look at skills and promo gains. And bases. She doesn't even need this 80% growth.

FE5 don't really have est. Maybe Miranda...

[ZemZem]

Miranda is considered the FE5 Est.

[Baldrick]

Levant, I'm not asking you to like slow play, just understand how it works. If you're taking 20+ turns per chapter, and no good reason to not keep two units together, what is so unviable about a 1+1 support?

I would argue at the very least Lyre is in a worse position. At least it's physically possible for Sophia to be as good as Niime.

Her hit against axe users, dragon knights, archers, and cavaliers isn't too shabby, usually around 50 for the first few chapters. There are enough of them on each map that squeezing out five kills each chapter with casual play is simple enough. If you want a more detailed analysis I can do it later.

Unless a unit has unfixable issues, their quality is dependent on the player's personal tastes in regards to play style and purpose. The only universal definition of a good unit is one you want to use.

I like using Lilina. She has excellent offense and accuracy further boosted by her fast support. I am not bothered by her being slow and requiring favouritism and playing more slowly to get going; I can easily work around it. Therefore, to me she is a good unit. But others consider her a bad unit for those reasons. Is my opinion worth less than theirs? Am I playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Now consider somebody who enjoys using Sophia. Like me with Lilina, they probably focus on her strengths and tolerate her weaknesses. Is their opinion worth less than mine because you can go faster than Lilina? Are they playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Both sides have been elitist at times. We should try to encourage mutual respect rather than fanning the flames of hostility.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Baldrick

[Jedi]

If I were to report posts, there would be warnings flying all over the place. Just remember the lesson, all of you, and keep it civil. Your opinion is just that, and no matter how backwards you think someone else's is, they're entitled to it.

Twas a simple misread and snap reaction on my part.

I am much too harsh on myself and on others at the worst moments. Also I agree with Baldrick whole heartedly

[Shadow Mir]

Levant, I'm not asking you to like slow play, just understand how it works. If you're taking 20+ turns per chapter, and no good reason to not keep two units together, what is so unviable about a 1+1 support?

I would argue at the very least Lyre is in a worse position. At least it's physically possible for Sophia to be as good as Niime.

Her hit against axe users, dragon knights, archers, and cavaliers isn't too shabby, usually around 50 for the first few chapters. There are enough of them on each map that squeezing out five kills each chapter with casual play is simple enough. If you want a more detailed analysis I can do it later.

Unless a unit has unfixable issues, their quality is dependent on the player's personal tastes in regards to play style and purpose. The only universal definition of a good unit is one you want to use.

I like using Lilina. She has excellent offense and accuracy further boosted by her fast support. I am not bothered by her being slow and requiring favouritism and playing more slowly to get going; I can easily work around it. Therefore, to me she is a good unit. But others consider her a bad unit for those reasons. Is my opinion worth less than theirs? Am I playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Now consider somebody who enjoys using Sophia. Like me with Lilina, they probably focus on her strengths and tolerate her weaknesses. Is their opinion worth less than mine because you can go faster than Lilina? Are they playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Both sides have been elitist at times. We should try to encourage mutual respect rather than fanning the flames of hostility.

With all due respect, I can't agree on Lyre being in a worse position when she has BEXP and gets double the benefit from stat boosters. Especially when Sophia's only training method involves her gambling on every hit. As to Lilina, I don't mind training her either; even if she's slow, she hits hard, her accuracy isn't THAT bad, and she's relatively easy to work with all in all. The light-speed Roy support helps. Sure, she starts underleveled, but personally, I don't think that's a big negative if you join early enough and aren't in a position that's so bad that training you's a major hassle. Two of the chapters right after getting Sophia (and her joining chapter too, given the 25 turn limit) are ones I can't really afford to dilly-dally in. To be fair, though, a good deal of enemies (most apparent with axers) do weigh themselves down.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Troykv]

The only good Est for LTCs is Sara (staves in FE5)

And that

Edited December 26, 2013 by Troykv

[RJWalker]

Sara fails to meet any of the traditional Est checks, aside from being low leveled.

Is she hard to train? Not at all.

Is she difficult to use in combat? Not at all.

Is she useless until she gains several levels? Not at all.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

You got my attention with this. So... how bad is Ymir????

I might miss some details, but the easiest way to describe Ymir is basically he is a "What if we make Sophia and put her in FE12 as a Warrior"

Like...

- Every enemy ORKO him at 100% Chance. He is surrounded by 12 MOV flying enemies with 1 - 2 range. His attack can easilly miss because his base stats is ass. His growth is terrible(by FE12 standard. If you are comparing him against GBA units, he would look like a god). He can't have support bonus AT ALL until the Final Chapter.

But hey, at least he have Bow Rank and Bow Rank is a recipe for sucess right?

LOLNOPE

His join chapter(4th last chapter of the game) is the last chapter with Wyvern. He can't wield Parthia by default even with Mixed Class.

On an unrelated note I actually requested PKL to use Ymir in Lunatic Reverse before >_>

Edited December 27, 2013 by JSND

[Roy: Marquess of Pherae]

Levant, I'm not asking you to like slow play, just understand how it works. If you're taking 20+ turns per chapter, and no good reason to not keep two units together, what is so unviable about a 1+1 support?

I would argue at the very least Lyre is in a worse position. At least it's physically possible for Sophia to be as good as Niime.

Her hit against axe users, dragon knights, archers, and cavaliers isn't too shabby, usually around 50 for the first few chapters. There are enough of them on each map that squeezing out five kills each chapter with casual play is simple enough. If you want a more detailed analysis I can do it later.

Unless a unit has unfixable issues, their quality is dependent on the player's personal tastes in regards to play style and purpose. The only universal definition of a good unit is one you want to use.

I like using Lilina. She has excellent offense and accuracy further boosted by her fast support. I am not bothered by her being slow and requiring favouritism and playing more slowly to get going; I can easily work around it. Therefore, to me she is a good unit. But others consider her a bad unit for those reasons. Is my opinion worth less than theirs? Am I playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Now consider somebody who enjoys using Sophia. Like me with Lilina, they probably focus on her strengths and tolerate her weaknesses. Is their opinion worth less than mine because you can go faster than Lilina? Are they playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Both sides have been elitist at times. We should try to encourage mutual respect rather than fanning the flames of hostility.

This is pretty much how I feel about my opinion of using Sophia late game. I want to use her simply because she is the best option for apocalypse IMO. Yes, Niime and Ray are easier to train, but I believe Sophia's growths are rewarding enough for a player who want to have the best Druid as possible.

[Loki Laufeyson]

What the hell do you play games for? Mental taxation? Fun is the main reason games are played

Some people like Sophia and are willing to go the extra mile. 200 turns is a bit of an extreme exaggeration escpially in nm fe6

This isnt really directed at you seeing how you understood the problem with the argument, but i want to address this anyway in general.

For LTC players, playing that way is what they consider fun. They go LTC because they get some enjoyment out of it. They find it funner than playing in a less efficient manner. I do not LTC and i find little fun in it outside the occasional 2 turning a chapter, but these guys like doing it for the same reasons i like grinding in Awakening. Its fun.

Sophia, i tried using her once and she died. She...really kind of sucks even for someone like me. Im that weirdo who trains Fiona in RD, but i could never get Sophia to work.

[Irysa]

Levant, I'm not asking you to like slow play, just understand how it works. If you're taking 20+ turns per chapter, and no good reason to not keep two units together, what is so unviable about a 1+1 support?

I would argue at the very least Lyre is in a worse position. At least it's physically possible for Sophia to be as good as Niime.

Her hit against axe users, dragon knights, archers, and cavaliers isn't too shabby, usually around 50 for the first few chapters. There are enough of them on each map that squeezing out five kills each chapter with casual play is simple enough. If you want a more detailed analysis I can do it later.

Unless a unit has unfixable issues, their quality is dependent on the player's personal tastes in regards to play style and purpose. The only universal definition of a good unit is one you want to use.

I like using Lilina. She has excellent offense and accuracy further boosted by her fast support. I am not bothered by her being slow and requiring favouritism and playing more slowly to get going; I can easily work around it. Therefore, to me she is a good unit. But others consider her a bad unit for those reasons. Is my opinion worth less than theirs? Am I playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Now consider somebody who enjoys using Sophia. Like me with Lilina, they probably focus on her strengths and tolerate her weaknesses. Is their opinion worth less than mine because you can go faster than Lilina? Are they playing Fire Emblem the wrong way?

Both sides have been elitist at times. We should try to encourage mutual respect rather than fanning the flames of hostility.

This is pretty much how I feel about my opinion of using Sophia late game. I want to use her simply because she is the best option for apocalypse IMO. Yes, Niime and Ray are easier to train, but I believe Sophia's growths are rewarding enough for a player who want to have the best Druid as possible.

She has a 30% speed growth (this is worse than nearly all the promoted units in the game), is weighed down by like every tome and has abysmal base speed and skill. 50% accuracy is bad. She is a bad unit. If you like using her because you like raising weak units, that's your call (I've done the same thing before, it IS fun sometimes, hell I used Sophia the first time I played FE6 and she was def blessed as fuck so she could Nosferatank) but trying to say even SUBJECTIVELY that a unit like that is "good" or "worth it" is asinine. Her only good growths are Mag and Res. She takes like 20 levels on average to get to Ray's base speed and skill (even if you rig levels she takes 10~ levels to catch up, which translates into like 3 or 4 levels for a unit who isn't massively underleveled.) BASE Ray, not even Niime.. You could have gotten Ray to like 20 + something else by that time. I'm not even going to bring up Niime.

20/20 Sophia doesn't even have a real mag lead on a 20/20 Ray, she only leads in resistance and loses in every other important stat. What are Sophia's "strengths" supposed to be? What makes her "the best druid possible"?

I'm not telling you that you can't like her as a unit btw. You're simply wrong on asserting she's even close to a good unit.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Irysa