Removing RNs from the FE system

[Baldrick]

This idea has been floating around in my head for a while, so I feel I should share it. Basically, what if instead of rolling random numbers to determine the course of a battle, everything could be predicted with complete certainty.

Changes to the mechanics would include:

Attacks always hit, and critical hits as we know them do not exist.

Level-ups would be handled by having Fixed Mode for growths.

Skills with a random activation rate would be altered to either activate on command, activate under certain conditions or be always active.

Skill, Speed and Luck would all have their effects change. Luck would likely be scrapped, and a possibility to keep Skill useful is to have critical hits (or if that's too strong, something like a Luna effect) activate with a certain skill advantage, like how Pursuit activates with a speed advantage.

Is it a good idea for minimising a frustrating aspect of Fire Emblem, or does it take all the fun and suspense out of it?

What would you think if future FE games went in this direction?

[VincentASM]

It would sound like a fun mode, like FE9's Fixed Mode, but I like FE because of its randomness. Plus it means your playthroughs are never quite the same, ala Advance Wars.

I do think Skills ought to be less RN-reliant though. Otherwise they're just flashy criticals.

[Elieson]

This idea has been floating around in my head for a while, so I feel I should share it. Basically, what if instead of rolling random numbers to determine the course of a battle, everything could be predicted with complete certainty.

Changes to the mechanics would include:

Attacks always hit, and critical hits as we know them do not exist.

Level-ups would be handled by having Fixed Mode for growths.

Skills with a random activation rate would be altered to either activate on command, activate under certain conditions or be always active.

Skill, Speed and Luck would all have their effects change. Luck would likely be scrapped, and a possibility to keep Skill useful is to have critical hits (or if that's too strong, something like a Luna effect) activate with a certain skill advantage, like how Pursuit activates with a speed advantage.

Is it a good idea for minimising a frustrating aspect of Fire Emblem, or does it take all the fun and suspense out of it?

What would you think if future FE games went in this direction?

Sounds pretty much like Shining Force

[Rehab]

Skill could also add to or mitigate damage, depending on the difference. Maybe it could be percent-based, as in having a 4 skill advantage on an enemy could increase all damage against and reduce all damage from by 25%. Maybe a high enough skill advantage could basically count as an automatic prayer/miracle activation, even if the enemy does massive damage. Balanced/sensible numbers and effects pending actual testing

(I find it odd that as-is, a unit can theoretically handle a weapon 2/3 as well as somebody else, but could still kill them in one turn reliably if the other has a large enough speed deficiency)

[FEAnon]

Skill could also add to or mitigate damage, depending on the difference. Maybe it could be percent-based, as in having a 4 skill advantage on an enemy could increase all damage against and reduce all damage from by 25%. Maybe a high enough skill advantage could basically count as an automatic prayer/miracle activation, even if the enemy does massive damage. Balanced/sensible numbers and effects pending actual testing

(I find it odd that as-is, a unit can theoretically handle a weapon 2/3 as well as somebody else, but could still kill them in one turn reliably if the other has a large enough speed deficiency)

I second this idea, I'd keep hit rates in but this time have them work as a damage multiplier (0 - 100%) instead of it being hit or miss. That way skill would actually be useful instead of being the stat that only matters if your main weapon type has terrible accuracy/fighting high avoid enemies like SMs and Valks.

[shadowofchaos]

When it comes to skills, what about Immortal Sword's take on it?

IIRC, it was a gauge and you could use it on command after it fills.

[RJWalker]

And never have the chance to make a 'The odds were in your favour' joke? Nooooooooo.

[SRC]

When it comes to skills, what about Immortal Sword's take on it?

IIRC, it was a gauge and you could use it on command after it fills.

Just take a page out of BOOTLEG EMBLEM and make a skill points to pay for pursuit, continue, etc.

As a bonus, you can have the skill stat increase the max SP/refill time to make skill a not-useless stat!

Edited December 16, 2013 by SRC

[47948201]

Just gonna throw this here...

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If you want to make a no-luck game difficult, it turns into a bit of a puzzle game, which may or may not be cool depending on what you're going for.

The idea as a whole I like because it makes the game less frustrating, but it cuts replay value in half (or so), too. Also, it's less "exciting" when you can't make 80% dodges or land 1% criticals, I hear.

[dondon151]

If you want to make a no-luck game difficult, it turns into a bit of a puzzle game, which may or may not be cool depending on what you're going for.

yeah see people complained about this regarding project dondon too, which is half the reason that i quit. i don't understand how a puzzle game is a bad thing.

Edited December 16, 2013 by dondon151

[Baldrick]

@vincent, the replay value would be a issue. By including growth-altering mechanics like orb fragments or BEXP, or having more options for customisation via skills, characters would grow differently each time while still being non-random, but that level of management would be a dramatic change from tradition.

@rehab, that is actually a pretty neat idea. I feel like damage mitigation should be covered by speed but then that means it overshadows skill again.

@47948201, the idea actually was partially inspired by my puzzle game hack that I really should pick up again sometime. I think it would work best if you are given enough options so that you wouldn't need to be precise to beat the chapter.

[Ema Skye]

Perhaps in a game without RNs skill could be used similar to Pursuit, in that if your skill is higher than your enemy's skill, your skill activates.

[Irysa]

OP, play Yggdra Union.

[The Void]

If attacks always hit, then what happens to units who are supposed to be more accurate to make up for being weaker such as members of the Swordmaster class tree?

Edited December 18, 2013 by The Void

[General Horace]

the only problem i have with this method of playing is a lot of units would become pretty similar, and certain classes like berserker and swordmaster wouldn't be a whole lot different than warriors and heroes other that just being a worse copy of the latter (unless we get an FE where caps actually matter, although it's never happened and probably never will) although I suppose you could just remove that altogether

I don't know, it just seems like a step back gameplaywise. You'd have less weapons, your stats would do less, etc.

On the plus side, there would be no shin levels to haunt the main lord like there normally is.

[Refa]

Yeah, now they'd just be blank levels, but dondon gets those all the time anyways, so at the very least HE wouldn't have a problem!

[Paperblade]

FE isn't complex enough to warrant removing the RNG entirely

Edited December 18, 2013 by Paperblade