My Little Pony and Gender Roles.

[Snowy_One]

This is probably a weird question buuuut....

As many of you know, MLP has been a widely popular show that has, interestingly, managed to score an audience with both male and female audiences despite being geared towards little girls. The reason why is obvious as it is a well-written and well-made show, but there is more to it. The show has managed to successfully challenge many gender stereotypes and preconceptions and does so without being too aggressive about it. This is similar to when Metroid had Samus be a girl shocked a lot of gamers as many didn't even think about her gender while playing. Within the main six characters, while we have the timid and shy characters there are also have characters like Rainbow Dash who is highly athletic and competitive, Applejack who is a hard worker on the farm, and Twilight Sparkle who is a potent and capable mage.

That the show has caught on with the female audience is not surprising on the whole, but what is is that it allowed men to catch on as well and, surprisingly, from the people I've talked to, the characters that they identify with are not the 'masculine' characters like Rainbow Dash, but characters like Pinky Pie and Fluttershy. This is interesting seeing as these characters are, pretty much, the exact opposite of the definition of 'manly'. Pinky is a party-girl who likes making others laugh, Fluttershy is very timid, and Rarity is more obsessed with fashion than any man following the social norms and not fabulously wealthy would be caught dead caring about.

The real question here is 'why'? Why do women seem to like the more masculine characters and the men like the more feminine characters? While it is perfectly fine to accept that the gender stereotypes are wrong, it is important to remember that stereotypes don't just appear out of nowhere either and usually have some basis in fact, if horribly abused, out-of-context, and twisted fact. In this case, modern gender roles and stereotypes are based on years of culture which has defined women as fairly weak and passive, and as a result, plenty of women are indeed weak and passive because they think that's how women 'should' be.

This implies an interesting conclusion based on my, admittedly very limited, data set. When we look at the rising number of female action-heroes as well as things like the backlash against the 90's action 'hero' (exemplified in comics), it is not unreasonable to assume that just as many men act like the caretaker, provider, and, well, 'masculine' simply because they believe that is what is expected of them, but with the standard having been set so high, anyone who doesn't ooze of testosterone simply can't achieve the goal and now feels 'emasculated'. Likewise, women are expected to be either the passive carer or a, for lack of a better general term, bitch, and while girls who fall into said roles are probably fine with them, there isn't much room for the girl who just wants to help her family out by ploughing a field or become an intellectual without having to be a shrinking violet as well.

As a result, the gender roles have been challenged because, while the good writing and production values draw people in, men see the sides of themselves that don't have to be hard-working, competitive, or the best in Pinky, Fluttershy, and Rarity and thusly identify while women see the sides of themselves that aren't silly, passive, or fashion-obsessed in Rainbow Dash, Twilight Sparkle, and Applejack. The result is that both genders are attracted to the show and STAY with the show because, not only is it well-made, but many can identify with it despite the intended audience being for young girls.

This also raises two other, important, questions. 1) 'What is 'mature' then if a show for girls who are still home has a strong audience of adults' and 2) 'Is this healthy/good?'. For the first I'd like to take a step back and look at some other, popular, shows. How many people here remember the Batman animated show? You know which one I'm talking about. The audience there was for young boys, yet it managed to be interesting and mature despite that. Now compare that to Batman and Robin and... Well, you'd have to hate animation a LOT to say the animated show is worse and it is certainly more 'mature' since it takes it audience at least somewhat seriously despite having plenty of jokes and light-hearted moments. This can even be seen in the old Loony Toons cartoons where, despite many people considering them about as 'for kids' as you can get, are pretty dark and, well, adult themes. But then we have shows like Family Guy which treats it audience to a slew of easy and obvious jokes. Before you say I'm picking on Family Guy, I'm not, I'm merely using it as an example here. But tell me, which jokes in Family Guy do you remember and which do you forget? Do you remember the Wheel of Fortune one more, or one of the countless quick gags that you might chuckle at and forget?

As for the second, we need to stop and think. Firstly, any obsession with anything can reach an unhealthy level. This is not about the guys who make MLP hentai, but the guys who happen to love the show a lot, but aren't obsessed beyond reason with it. Is it healthy for them to like the show? The answer is, yes. Ignoring that the show is generally focused on positive things such as honesty and the like, the shows attitude towards gender is a very positive one. We have both male and female characters in good and bad roles and, while the girls are, indeed, the focus of the cast the males like Big Mac are not treated poorly by any means and actually get treated as just as capable as the girls. In doing so it shows that men don't need to be afraid of women since any women who challenges them may very well trump them (a big flaw with many of the stories where a girl joins and is better is that she is usually so much better as to render every other character near-useless) and instead deserve a healthy respect and to be treated as equally capable. Rainbow Dash isn't capable of the Sonic Rainboom because she is a girl and guys kept shunning her and keeping her from proving herself, but because she loves flying so much that she keeps trying to be better and better at it.

So what does this mean ultimately? In my eyes it means that we are finally getting more and more challengers to the traditional gender stereotypes and that, ultimately, being a well-written and designed show far outweighs trying to 'be progressive' and 'female empowerment'. I would say MLP doesn't 'empower' women in any way. It just creates a world where both men and women can find characters they identify with and it just happens that the main characters are all girls. Non-threatening, inclusive, and mature so that adults don't have to worry as well while appealing to a younger audience too.

Remember Scooby Doo and how each of the characters mattered regardless of being a boy or girl? They were a group focused on solving mysteries in which there were two men, two women, and one dog. How many stories, especially the ones that had a positive effect on how gender roles were seen, treated their characters as their gender first and their character second? How many shows have the tag-along/token girl? How about the token black/gay/whatever guy whose only defining characteristic is that they are black/gay/lesbian? These shows are hurtful as they cause people to see people as only that one trait, not as a fleshed out character with their own motive and reasons for being there beyond affirmative action/gender empowerment/what have you.

It is a great thing that we are, slowly, getting more and more shows where equality, true equality, can be found that challenge the norms, especially gender stereotypes. It's just sad that one of the forefront leaders in this 'charge' happens to be a show for little girls.

[Vorena]

I believe its nice to see a larger acceptance of a person being able to identify however they will. Whether this show exemplifies that or not might be debatable. The only issue I have is the fact that we have to keep pointing out all of the old stereotypical traits between genders. Another problem is the fact that all of these arguments are based on the majority of people: a two gender society. However, what about a person who physically fits into either biological definition? Are they male or female? Do they identify as typical male or female traits of old?

My opinion is that one should not try to place labels at all on what is masculine or feminine. Everything should just be seen as neutral and natural that way. As an example, people generally point out observations on things which are out of the ordinary.

Take these two comments:

"She is the only woman in our physics class."

"My face has eyes."

Typically, a person will not make the 2nd comments to others, but they will make the first comment frequently. If everything truly becomes gender neutral and natural that way the first comment typically would not be made. At the very least, it would be seen and made for different reasons.

As such, Friendship is Magic era of My Little Pony is still very much stereotypical by the very fact it tries to make television motifs designed for a particular gender. However, it accidentally managed to gather support from another gender group. In this regard, I view MLP:FiM as not being the thing which is evidence of providing challenges to norms, but rather the response to MLP:FiM being the evidence which says society is changing.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Eri's Ire

[Esau of Isaac]

My Little Pony has absolutely zilch to do with challenging gender roles. Your observation that males tend to like characters that aren't masculine isn't even indication of reassessment of gender roles in society, it could mean they like the character for any number of reasons. Gender roles have been challenged over the decades through progressive strides in society, but to say that a cartoon for children has made any serious strides in that realm is beyond preposterous and bordering on insane. It's a cartoon about ponies for Chrissakes. Do you think Teletubbies challenged anything by having one of them carry a purse?

[Snowy_One]

My Little Pony has absolutely zilch to do with challenging gender roles. Your observation that males tend to like characters that aren't masculine isn't even indication of reassessment of gender roles in society, it could mean they like the character for any number of reasons. Gender roles have been challenged over the decades through progressive strides in society, but to say that a cartoon for children has made any serious strides in that realm is beyond preposterous and bordering on insane. It's a cartoon about ponies for Chrissakes. Do you think Teletubbies challenged anything by having one of them carry a purse?

Not every show will be a gamechanger just because it does something different. That doesn't mean anything though. And MLP has made a major stride in that its one of the first shows designed for girls that's developed a major male audience and is very popular, especially for non-sexual reasons (stuff like Sailor Moon helped a lot, but there is no denying that a lot of its male audience cared for the softcore porn more than anything). Even if it is just a change in gender-roles, this is almost certainly a change for the better as it is encouraging a bit more equality between them.

[jiodi]

Are you sure the large male audience isn't more of a nod to our culture's affinity for irony?

[Esau of Isaac]

There is no change in gender roles. At all. There are hundreds of other cartoons with similar character roles and interactions. Having strong female leads that are liked by some males doesn't mean you have challenged anything. Like, what, are you going to claim that Totally Spies made any similar strides?

The show doesn't do anything different. It's just a cute colorful cartoon that happens to be liked by people. That's all.

[jiodi]

Isn't that understating it a bit? The fact that "bronies" is even a term uttered on the internet attests to that. It's a phenomenon, which I believe is attributed to its writing.

There isn't a large outside-of-its-demographic following for Totally Spies or Teletubbies. I'd say you're better off comparing it to something like Avatar: The Last Airbender (a show lauded for its writing, with a viewership outside of its targeted demographic greater than any other Nickelodeon show to date).

Still, challenging gender roles is the last thing its doing.

[Esau of Isaac]

The fact that there's such a thing as "bronies" doesn't mean that the writing is responsible for it, it just means that it was the show that got lucky so to speak. Japan realized ages ago that weird guys like watching cutesy show of cutesy girly characters doing funny, cute things. It's catching on over here.

I mean, what, is Sonic to blame for furries?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[jiodi]

No, but Nicholas Cage is responsible for straw men ;p

Oversimplifying my point doesn't make for a substantial argument. Especially considering we aren't disagreeing.

None of this has anything to do with gender roles or gender equality or gender anything. It might as well be Spongebob Squarepants.

Good writing is a way to get people to actually enjoy watching a show, regardless of target demographic (see Avatar). The fandom growing the way it has and creating the term "bronies" implies irony.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Are you sure the large male audience isn't more of a nod to our culture's affinity for irony?

Yes. The brony fanbase does love the show without irony. Honest. Most of them appreciate it because its solidly written for a show of that target demographic. Powerpuff Girls had a similar fan following and yet, that show is without as much controversy in terms of its fanbase. Why? Probably because of the reputation MLP has had over the years. For 30 years, My Little Pony has been nothing but merchandise driven girly drivel all about "girly" roles. I still liked it as a kid doe. So finally, an incarnation of the franchise happens and its actually good, people are going to notice. Men, women, whatever. What makes Friendship is Magic so good? Just decent writing. Not treating the audience like dumbshits. Yeah people are gonna notice!

As for gender roles, im not sure exactly what FiM is challenging, i think its just showing how female characters are just as varied as male characters in any given work. So im not sure why theres an argument about that. I think guys like Rarity and Fluttershy and Pinky because they are well written characters despite being feminine. People like Fluttershy for the same reasons they like moe characters. Shes adorable and that endears people. Rarity is sassy so some people are gonna like that. Plus her entire schtick isnt fashion, shes got layers. Pinky Pie is fun loving and a total throwback to old Loony Toons style gags and fourth wall breaking.

I think we need to talk about demographic shifts a little. Cuz i think this is more of whats going on with MLP than anything really gender related.

Shifts in demographics occur when a show/work is written to appeal to more than just the target. Lauren Faust went on record to state that she wrote MLP to appeal to all kinds of girls and even their brothers and parents. She wanted to create a show with substance. As a result, we got the target demographic (girls 3-13 years old) loving this shit, plus their older brothers and oddly, their uncles. Apparently the writing was solid enough to win over an audience that was unexpected. Hasbro originally only had the target demographic in mind, but now...they are wise to it and know they can market to the periphery demographic as well. See why theres so much MLP stuff out there not intended for little girls.

Something similar happened with Marvel. Its a bit less noticeable due to it not having a as vocal and niche fanbase, but its happened. Marvel brought more solid writing and visuals on screen for their film universe. It really began with Iron Man and the second wave. Thor happened and it fucking exploded and the Avengers film just sealed it. The target demographic for Marvel had always been male and usually comic nerds. Thor and the Avengers won over a huge amount of people who werent really into this stuff before. Im talkin' women here. Lots. Of. Them. The films themselves arent challenging gender roles much if anything. Its still pretty conventional. But you see a lot of female fans of Iron Man, Thor, Loki, Hulk, Cap, etc. This simply had to do with the writing of the films being more character driven and focused. Kenneth Branagh's direction of Thor helped this since hes more focused on character interaction (and ham) than action. Joss Whedon (who has a very dedicated fanbase of all walks of life) took over for Avengers and wrote Thor 2. Iron Man focused a lot on Tony Stark's character as well. Apparently, women really liked seeing these characters on screen being...characters and relateable. It does help that Tony, Cap, Thor and co are played by attractive people lol. Now you have ladies getting into the original comics of these heroes. This is a good thing. This is a very good thing. Marvel can now market to a much larger demographic and make money.

My Little Pony is no different in this respect. People enjoy character driven stories. Its why Game of Thrones is popular. Its why Doctor Who is popular and Sherlock and stuff. It has a lot less to do with challenging gender roles and more to do with simply solid writing in general.

[Florete]

The fact that there's such a thing as "bronies" doesn't mean that the writing is responsible for it, it just means that it was the show that got lucky so to speak. Japan realized ages ago that weird guys like watching cutesy show of cutesy girly characters doing funny, cute things. It's catching on over here.

I mean, what, is Sonic to blame for furries?

These are pretty different scenarios. The girls in anime you're referring to are, more often than not, sexualized and/or stereotyped, which is a far cry from the characters in MLP. These anime are about appealing to male fetishes, MLP is about appealing to young girls, and the difference may sometimes (sometimes) be subtle, but it's definitely there.

While I do think Snowy may be over-interpreting brony fandom a bit, I do think it's a pretty good step in the right direction. I've met multiple bronies who have become more open to the idea of "girl's entertainment" as a result of it, which is, in fact, challenging a gender role (that being that men should only like masculine things).

And yeah, while many male viewers seem to go into MLP: FiM thinking they'd only like it ironically, they tend to be surprised and like it legitimately.

[jiodi]

Yes. The brony fanbase does love the show without irony. Honest. Most of them appreciate it because its solidly written for a show of that target demographic. Powerpuff Girls had a similar fan following and yet, that show is without as much controversy in terms of its fanbase. Why? Probably because of the reputation MLP has had over the years. For 30 years, My Little Pony has been nothing but merchandise driven girly drivel all about "girly" roles. I still liked it as a kid doe. So finally, an incarnation of the franchise happens and its actually good, people are going to notice. Men, women, whatever. What makes Friendship is Magic so good? Just decent writing. Not treating the audience like dumbshits. Yeah people are gonna notice!

Valid answer to a question based purely on speculation!

That's what I get for making assumptions about the collective insecurities of males watching a show filled with pink D:

[Mikethfc]

Not every show will be a gamechanger just because it does something different. That doesn't mean anything though. And MLP has made a major stride in that its one of the first shows designed for girls that's developed a major male audience and is very popular, especially for non-sexual reasons (stuff like Sailor Moon helped a lot, but there is no denying that a lot of its male audience cared for the softcore porn more than anything). Even if it is just a change in gender-roles, this is almost certainly a change for the better as it is encouraging a bit more equality between them.

Meanwhile 12 years before Friendship is Magic back when MLP was a shitty 90s cartoon~Powerpuff Girls.jpg

But then we have shows like Family Guy which treats it audience to a slew of easy and obvious jokes. Before you say I'm picking on Family Guy, I'm not, I'm merely using it as an example here. But tell me, which jokes in Family Guy do you remember and which do you forget? Do you remember the Wheel of Fortune one more, or one of the countless quick gags that you might chuckle at and forget?

Generally the funnier ones. Also generally shows fare less well when building up to one big joke and becoming something of a shaggy dog story, look at Red Dwarf IX.

This is similar to when Metroid had Samus be a girl shocked a lot of gamers as many didn't even think about her gender while playing. Within the main six characters, while we have the timid and shy characters there are also have characters like Rainbow Dash who is highly athletic and competitive, Applejack who is a hard worker on the farm, and Twilight Sparkle who is a potent and capable mage.

That the show has caught on with the female audience is not surprising on the whole, but what is is that it allowed men to catch on as well and, surprisingly, from the people I've talked to, the characters that they identify with are not the 'masculine' characters like Rainbow Dash, but characters like Pinky Pie and Fluttershy. This is interesting seeing as these characters are, pretty much, the exact opposite of the definition of 'manly'. Pinky is a party-girl who likes making others laugh, Fluttershy is very timid, and Rarity is more obsessed with fashion than any man following the social norms and not fabulously wealthy would be caught dead caring about.

Not at all, Metroid was surprising because everybody had self-consciously assumed Samus was a man, in the same way that Alien Made Ripley the sole-survivor, (excluding the cat,) because they felt that would be the most shocking.

People being able to relate to personified horses of a different gender is no less shocking than relating to any other personified/anthropomorphised character.

It is a great thing that we are, slowly, getting more and more shows where equality, true equality, can be found that challenge the norms, especially gender stereotypes. It's just sad that one of the forefront leaders in this 'charge' happens to be a show for little girls.

Yes because Gretchen and Spinelli from Recess were just the embodiment of gender stereotypes

Rainbow Dash isn't capable of the Sonic Rainboom because she is a girl and guys kept shunning her and keeping her from proving herself, but because she loves flying so much that she keeps trying to be better and better at it.

So every underdog sports move ever then.

Remember Scooby Doo and how each of the characters mattered regardless of being a boy or girl? They were a group focused on solving mysteries in which there were two men, two women, and one dog. How many stories, especially the ones that had a positive effect on how gender roles were seen, treated their characters as their gender first and their character second? How many shows have the tag-along/token girl? How about the token black/gay/whatever guy whose only defining characteristic is that they are black/gay/lesbian? These shows are hurtful as they cause people to see people as only that one trait, not as a fleshed out character with their own motive and reasons for being there beyond affirmative action/gender empowerment/what have you.

I can't refute this since the only SD episode I found worth watching was the one with Johnny Bravo in it

As for the second, we need to stop and think. Firstly, any obsession with anything can reach an unhealthy level. This is not about the guys who make MLP hentai, but the guys who happen to love the show a lot, but aren't obsessed beyond reason with it. Is it healthy for them to like the show? The answer is, yes.

So long as they accept that it's just a cartoon and doesn't have any profound sociological impact, like Esau said about Tinky Winky Edited January 11, 2014 by Mikethfc

[Rehab]

Yes. The brony fanbase does love the show without irony. Honest. Most of them appreciate it because its solidly written for a show of that target demographic. Powerpuff Girls had a similar fan following and yet, that show is without as much controversy in terms of its fanbase. Why? Probably because of the reputation MLP has had over the years. For 30 years, My Little Pony has been nothing but merchandise driven girly drivel all about "girly" roles. I still liked it as a kid doe. So finally, an incarnation of the franchise happens and its actually good, people are going to notice. Men, women, whatever. What makes Friendship is Magic so good? Just decent writing. Not treating the audience like dumbshits. Yeah people are gonna notice!

As for gender roles, im not sure exactly what FiM is challenging, i think its just showing how female characters are just as varied as male characters in any given work. So im not sure why theres an argument about that. I think guys like Rarity and Fluttershy and Pinky because they are well written characters despite being feminine. People like Fluttershy for the same reasons they like moe characters. Shes adorable and that endears people. Rarity is sassy so some people are gonna like that. Plus her entire schtick isnt fashion, shes got layers. Pinky Pie is fun loving and a total throwback to old Loony Toons style gags and fourth wall breaking.

I think we need to talk about demographic shifts a little. Cuz i think this is more of whats going on with MLP than anything really gender related.

Shifts in demographics occur when a show/work is written to appeal to more than just the target. Lauren Faust went on record to state that she wrote MLP to appeal to all kinds of girls and even their brothers and parents. She wanted to create a show with substance. As a result, we got the target demographic (girls 3-13 years old) loving this shit, plus their older brothers and oddly, their uncles. Apparently the writing was solid enough to win over an audience that was unexpected. Hasbro originally only had the target demographic in mind, but now...they are wise to it and know they can market to the periphery demographic as well. See why theres so much MLP stuff out there not intended for little girls.

Something similar happened with Marvel. Its a bit less noticeable due to it not having a as vocal and niche fanbase, but its happened. Marvel brought more solid writing and visuals on screen for their film universe. It really began with Iron Man and the second wave. Thor happened and it fucking exploded and the Avengers film just sealed it. The target demographic for Marvel had always been male and usually comic nerds. Thor and the Avengers won over a huge amount of people who werent really into this stuff before. Im talkin' women here. Lots. Of. Them. The films themselves arent challenging gender roles much if anything. Its still pretty conventional. But you see a lot of female fans of Iron Man, Thor, Loki, Hulk, Cap, etc. This simply had to do with the writing of the films being more character driven and focused. Kenneth Branagh's direction of Thor helped this since hes more focused on character interaction (and ham) than action. Joss Whedon (who has a very dedicated fanbase of all walks of life) took over for Avengers and wrote Thor 2. Iron Man focused a lot on Tony Stark's character as well. Apparently, women really liked seeing these characters on screen being...characters and relateable. It does help that Tony, Cap, Thor and co are played by attractive people lol. Now you have ladies getting into the original comics of these heroes. This is a good thing. This is a very good thing. Marvel can now market to a much larger demographic and make money.

My Little Pony is no different in this respect. People enjoy character driven stories. Its why Game of Thrones is popular. Its why Doctor Who is popular and Sherlock and stuff. It has a lot less to do with challenging gender roles and more to do with simply solid writing in general.

I might be repeating myself from awhile back, but when it came up with a ladyfriend that I remembered the Powerpuffs as much+fondly as the rest of the Cartoon Cartoons bloc, she was surprised- she never much watched it, got the initial impression that it looked like that typical kind of "for-girls" media that just labeled itself "pink, dresses, you know for girls etc" and asked for a guaranteed demographic's attention off little else. Gave as indignant a mock-outrage response as I can remember giving about anything

Getting more (or is it less?) tangentially related here, but I also had a cousin who, when asked whether she had any experience with Persona/SMT, replied "I'm a girl, of course I know what Persona is."

=> "What'sat supposed t'mean?! Persona is a totally manly franchise, with its, its focus on relationship-building, and its romance, and its.. beautiful(ly drawn) male protagonists..."

There is no change in gender roles. At all. There are hundreds of other cartoons with similar character roles and interactions. Having strong female leads that are liked by some males doesn't mean you have challenged anything. Like, what, are you going to claim that Totally Spies made any similar strides?

The show doesn't do anything different. It's just a cute colorful cartoon that happens to be liked by people. That's all.

Do you mean that cartoons don't do things like change gender roles, or that gender roles aren't things that change, to be sure?

[spoiler=if it's the latter, (yes I realize this is something I jump on a bit quickly at times big deall wnna fght bou tit)]Until I can find the source, I'll have to call this anecdotal, but I heard that there existed, for example, a southern African tribal group (whose name is conveniently escaping me at the moment) whose leaders were primarily women for as long as could be remembered. Supposedly, when British colonizers (IIRC) came into contact with these people, the former simply refused to deal with the leading women, and only spoke to the men on grounds of authority.

Today, one wouldn't know by looking at people descended from that group/area that they were ever any different from anybody else in terms of having gendered leadership roles.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Rehab

[Esau of Isaac]

These are pretty different scenarios. The girls in anime you're referring to are, more often than not, sexualized and/or stereotyped, which is a far cry from the characters in MLP. These anime are about appealing to male fetishes, MLP is about appealing to young girls, and the difference may sometimes (sometimes) be subtle, but it's definitely there.

There are many shows such as K-ON which feature little sexualization out of a fair few situations, and the fact that they're stereotyped means nothing as the same is true of MLP characters. And while yes, MLP is primarily targeted towards children, I was obviously pointing out that Japan has already caught onto this phenomenon and MLP is a sign of what is to come in the west

[Refa]

Getting more (or is it less?) tangentially related here, but I also had a cousin who, when asked whether she had any experience with Persona/SMT, replied "I'm a girl, of course I know what Persona is."

=> "What'sat supposed t'mean?! Persona is a totally manly franchise, with its, its focus on demon fusion and its demons, and its.. beautiful(ly drawn) Mara..."

I totally fixed that for you, you can thank me later!

Also I watched some of the show a while back, but I don't really remember it (I think I liked it?) and in the meantime have become more interested in more ACTSHUN oriented shows, so I don't think I'd really be able to say anything about it specifically for a while.

[RJWalker]

Players didn't assume Samus was a guy because of gender roles. They assumed Samus was a guy because the Game Manual said so. It kept on reffering to Samus as guy to fool the player.

Also, if it matters, the MLP fanbase that we're talking about started on 4chan.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Florete]

Players didn't assume Samus was a guy because of gender roles. They assumed Samus was a guy because the Game Manual said so. It kept on reffering to Samus as guy to fool the player.

Also, if it matters, the MLP fanbase that we're talking about started on 4chan.

There is that, but there's no way anyone would have thought Samus was a woman even without it. All things considered, it's easy to see that people would have just assumed she was a he.

[Snowy_One]

Not to be a whiner, but can we avoid using the term 'bronie'? At least as a cover-all term for males who like MLP? Cause there is a big difference between the people who like the show because it's good and the people who obsess over it. The latter, the kind of person who sees it as gospel and will buy anything with the MLP stamp and writes creepy fanfics is not the same as the person who watched the show because they thought it was good.

[ButteredToast]

Not to be a whiner, but can we avoid using the term 'bronie'? At least as a cover-all term for males who like MLP? Cause there is a big difference between the people who like the show because it's good and the people who obsess over it. The latter, the kind of person who sees it as gospel and will buy anything with the MLP stamp and writes creepy fanfics is not the same as the person who watched the show because they thought it was good.

So what do you suppose we call them then?

[Prims]

very popular, especially for non-sexual reasons

dont kid yourself

also if the scaled down horse show was actually challenging masculinity then men who said they liked it outside specific circles wouldn't instantly be laughed off

Edited January 11, 2014 by Prims

[Snowy_One]

How about 'fans of MLP'?

[Skynstein]

Just something to add to... In Scooby-Doo, there are both sides of the spectrum. Daphne is your typical damsel in distress, but Velma is actually the person who solves the mysteries. However, Daphne is cute and Velma is... not so much. It's done in such an innocent way that it doesn't matter IMO, but my love of redheads as well as her "weakness" always drove me to Daphne.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Velma is... not so much.

Slanderous lies! Velma is cute, shes just not presented as an ideal compared to Daphne. Velma also has a larger fanbase.

The term "brony" is often used as an umbrella term for hardcore fans of MLP. Male, female, whatever. The core fanbase has no issue with it.

[Skynstein]

Slanderous lies! Velma is cute, shes just not presented as an ideal compared to Daphne. Velma also has a larger fanbase.

Maybe because Velma actually does something while Daphne is just there to be saved... But as a kid I loved Daphne because redhead.

The first movie plays with their stereotypes a lot, though.