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6 minutes ago, Koneko said:

wow

though I think she might come back since it seems like a pattern for something to be said on nov 26(?) she said he was fine and had business to do so ye

maybe she will send another annual message on twitter

WHAT HOLY SHIT I THOUGHT SHE DELETED HER TWITTER IM CRYING ALL OVER AGAIN

 

omg im so so happy she's all right i genuinely thought that something bad happened to her or a relative......she's always been kinda quiet and relatively....idk how to put this in a good way but......distant?? from both her fans and most other utaite.......so i didn't think that it was out of the picture for her to completely disappear without explanation in response to a huge personal problem in life...........and since it's the internet she could have even died or something and i thought i would never know...........omg kitty thank u so much i have been worried about her for so so so so long and it takes so much off my chest to finally know that she's okay ;_;

Edited by Hitori
stan luna
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I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT I, HITORI'S BIGGEST FAN, IMMEDIATELY ASSUMED THAT SHE DELETED HER TWITTER WITHOUT EVEN PERSONALLY CHECKING......I AM A FLOP FAN

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Just now, Koneko said:

it'll be ok bud you haven't utaite in so long

thank u bud ;_; i am so glad u understand and are willing to listen (i have been wanting to talk to kat about it too but she transferred out of my fashion class the day i fell for hitori again ;-;)

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Spoiler

the funny part about me being back in hitori hell is that it stemmed from a conversation i had w kpop friends
 

Quote

friend: man u know when male kpop songs are sexy

me: wtf

friend: ??? you've never heard a guy voice that made you think "wow thats sexy"

me: uh no that's sin. bless you.

 

and then i went home and thought about it a lot and i realized that actually i did think that about someone

except it was a girl

so maybe i was doomed to be gay since the beginning idk

 

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5 minutes ago, Trisitei said:

[insert an old post you made saying you were gay]

hey shh....that's old news.....

4 minutes ago, Trisitei said:

sf double posting is bad civilization

i agree

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1 hour ago, Trisitei said:

report back your findings 

So the matter in question involves Elendil, Isildur, Anárion, Meneldil and Valandil. 

Elendil was the leader of the Faithful Númenóreans who came to Middle-earth after the Downfall of Númenor; here they established the Realms in Exile: Arnor (in the north) and Gondor (in the south). Later, the realms were estranged from each other: Arnor's kings were reckoned from the line of Isildur, the older son of Elendil, through Isildur's son Valandil; while Gondor's kings were reckoned from the line of Anárion, the younger son of Elendil, through Anárion's son Meneldil.

Quote

Arnor. Elendil died S.A. 3441 [i.e. the year 3441 of the Second Age], Isildur died 2 [i.e. the year 2 of the Third Age], Valandil 249 [...]

Quote

Kings of Gondor. Elendil (Isildur and) Anárion died S.A. 3440, Meneldil son of Anárion 158 [...]

(Source: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, "Annals of the Kings and Rulers", I, (ii).)

Arnor is clear: Elendil was King of Arnor until his death; he was succeeded by his eldest and sole surviving son Isildur, who was in turn succeeded by his sole surviving son Valandil.

Gondor is just phrased really confusingly. It says Elendil, Isildur and Anárion, but then Isildur is bracketed? It also only lists the date of Anárion's death, not the dates of Elendil's and Isildur's deaths. It seems to imply though that at first, Elendil, Isildur and Anárion were all jointly Kings of Gondor, at least until Anárion's death in S.A. 3440. They were succeeded by Meneldil, Anárion's only son. But when? 
I can interpret it as this: originally, Elendil, Isildur and Anárion were all Kings of Gondor; after the death of Anárion in S.A. 3440, only Elendil and Isildur were left as Kings of Gondor; after Elendil's death in S.A. 3441, the Kingship of Gondor passed from him and Isildur (even though the latter was still alive) solely to Meneldil, and that is why Isildur's name is bracketed: because he was King of Gondor just as much as Elendil and Anárion, but was succeeded by Meneldil after the deaths of Elendil and Anárion, rather than after his own death.

So: 

  1. Originally, Elendil was King of Arnor; he was also King of Gondor together with Isildur and Anárion.
  2. After Anárion's death, Elendil was King of Arnor; he was also King of Gondor together with Isildur.
  3. After Elendil's death, Isildur became King of Arnor; Meneldil became King of Gondor; Isildur apparently relinquished that office to him.
Quote

After Elendil and Isildur there were eight High Kings of Arnor.

(Source: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, "Annals of the Kings and Rulers", I, (iii).)

Note how it says "High King of Arnor" instead of "King of Arnor". Is there some significance behind this or is "High King" used here as synonymous for "King"?

Quote

'On the death of Ondoher [King of Gondor] and his sons, Arvedui of the North-kingdom claimed the crown of Gondor, as the direct descendant of Isildur, and as the husband of Fíriel, only surviving child of Ondoher. The claim was rejected. In this Pelendur, the Steward of King Ondoher, played the chief part.
'The Council of Gondor answered: "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs solely to the heirs of Meneldil, son of Anárion, to whom Isildur relinquished this realm. In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the sons only; and we have not heard that the law is otherwise in Arnor."
'To this Arvedui replied: "Elendil had two sons, of whom Isildur was the elder and the heir of his father. We have heard that the name of Elendil standts to this day at the head of the line of the Kings of Gondor, since he was accounted the high king of all the lands of the Dúnedain. While Elendil still lived, the conjoint rule in the South was committed to his sons; but when Elendil fell, Isildur departed to take up the high kingship of his father, and committed the rule in the South in like manner to the son of his brother [i.e. Meneldil]. He did not relinquish his royalty in Gondor, nor intend that the realm of Elendil should be divided for ever. [...]

(Source: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, "Annals of the Kings and Rulers", I, (iv).)

If Arvedui's claim is true, then we can deduce the following: "High King" is indeed significant, for it signifies the king who is the lord of all the lands of the Dúnedain (i.e. Arnor and Gondor). Thus, while Isildur did relinquish the Kingship of Gondor to Meneldil upon the death of Elendil, he claimed not only the Kingship of Arnor but also the High Kingship over the Dúnedain. 

It all sounds pretty contradictory, but there is a way to unite all the information given in "Annals of the Kings and Rulers", I, (ii) and (iii) and the words of the Council of Gondor and of King Arvedui.

  1. Originally, Elendil was High King of the Dúnedain, King of Arnor and King of Gondor; Isildur and Anárion were also Kings of Gondor.
  2. After the death of Anárion, Elendil remained High King of the Dúnedain, King of Arnor and King of Gondor; Isildur remained King of Gondor.
  3. After the death of Elendil, Isildur became High King of the Dúnedain and King of Arnor, but he relinquished the Kingship of Gondor to Meneldil.
Quote

After the fall of Sauron, Isildur, the son and heir of Elendil, returned to Gondor. There he assumed the Elendilmir as King of Arnor, and proclaimed his sovereign lordship over all the Dúnedain in the North and in the South; for he was a man of great pride and vigour.

Quote

Isildur had established Meneldil as King of Gondor.

(Source: Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields".)

This source seems to back up the theory I outlined above, though it does not explicitly state that Isildur relinquished his Kingship of Gondor when he made Meneldil King of Gondor (so he might have been King of Arnor and King of Gondor, like Elendil before him - but given Arvedui's words I do not think this is what Tolkien meant).

Quote

The Heirs of Elendil
The Southern Line of Gondor: The Anárioni
1 Elendil
    born S.A. 3119    lived 322 years    slain 3441 = T.A. 1
2 Anárion
                    3219            221 years    slain 3440
3 Meneldil   3318            280 years     died T.A. 158

(Source: The History of Middle-earth: The Peoples of Middle-earth, "The Heirs of Elendil".)

This source does not mention Isildur among the Southern Line of Gondor at all. While that may at first seem to contradict my earlier conclusion that Isildur was for a while King of Gondor, I believe that it does in fact not do so: this is not a list of the Kings of Gondor, this is a list of the line of Anárion. Isildur was Anárion's brother, and therefore not of his line. 

So my earlier conclusion seems to be right.

But that begs a new question. If Isildur was High King of the Dúnedain, how come Arnor and Gondor went separate ways after his death? Did his son Valandil not also inherit the High Kingship of the Dúnedain alongside the Kingship of Arnor?

I believe the answer to this question is of a factual rather than of a legal nature.

Quote

He [Meneldil] was in fact well-pleased by the departure of Isildur and his sons, and hoped that affairs in the North would keep them long occupied.

(Source: Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields".)

Quote

Year
2 [...] Disaster of the Gladden Fields; Isildur and his three elder sons are slain.
[...]
10 Valandil becomes King of Arnor.

(Source: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, "The Tale of Years".)

Notice how there are eight years between Isildur's death and Valandil's ascension to the Kingship of Arnor. What happened there?

Quote

In the tenth year of the Third Age Valandil being come to manhood took up the kingship of Arnor [...]
[...]
Valandil    [born S.A.] 3430 [...]

(Source: Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields".)

Valandil was born in S.A. 3430; Isildur died in T.A. 2. Since S.A. 3441=T.A. 1, Valandil was about 12 at the time of Isildur's death. He was a minor and that is why he did not take up the Kingship of Arnor until T.A. 10. Interregnums were rather common in the Realms in Exile (though they were usually short of length); during an interregnum it was the Council that fulfilled the role of the King. That is, the Council of Arnor fulfilled the role of the King of Arnor; it did not fulfill the role of the High King of the Dúnedain, for it did not have that authority. If Valandil waited until T.A. 10 to assume the Kingship of Arnor, I think it's also reasonable to assume that he waited until T.A. 10 to assume the High Kingship of the Dúnedain.

So the Realms in Exile spent 8 years without a High King of the Dúnedain. Given the quote from Unfinished Tales about Meneldil, he seems to have been a ruler who didn't like the interference of the High King and much preferred to run Gondor's affairs independently. When Valandil finally did become High King of the Dúnedain, it was hard for him to actually claim the powers that came with the title: Meneldil (and presumably also the Council of Gondor) much preferred to rule Gondor without any interference from the High King (they had already been accustomed to this for 8 years). Meneldil must have heavily resisted any interference from Valandil after the latter's ascension - and Valandil simply couldn't do anything about it. Meneldil had a lot of experience in life, in government and in battle; furthermore he had been born in Númenor and (presumably) enjoyed the support of the people and Council of Gondor; while Valandil had only little experience in life and in government, and no experience in battle; furthermore had been born in Middle-earth and (presumably) did not enjoy the support of the people and Council of Gondor, to whom he was only an insolent boy (the age of 20 was very young in the eyes of the Dúnedain, whose life spans were almost thrice that of normal Men).

So Valandil and all the Kings of Arnor after him were, legally, High Kings of the Dúnedain, but de jure only; de facto, Gondor managed its own affairs without interference from the High King.

1 hour ago, Hitori said:

THANKS but tbf i kinda left out the part where my initial draft was ~800 words and i spent like half an hour desperately cutting down on everything

 

AND WELL I GUESS THAT COULD BE IT BECAUSE THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR WITHOUT A STUDY HALL PERIOD (my schedule got messed up bc of things and there isn't really a class i'd want to replace with it) AND I'M TAKING THE MOST APs I HAVE EVER DURING MY HIGH SCHOOL CAREER BUT I HOPE IT ISN'T BECAUSE I'M NOT EVEN TAKING THAT MANY AND I HAVE SOME FRIENDS TAKING ON LIKE 6 TO 8 JUST FINE

I WILL JUST TRY THIS OUT FOR A COUPLE DAYS AND SEE WHERE IT TAKES ME

 

ALSO GOOD LUCK HATTO!! there are a lot of mysteries in hitmanime driving me crazy too but it's not as popular as it was 10 years ago so i can't really ask anyone : ( I HOPE UR MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN I WAS

okay that sounds a little more like me when writing essays

WELL I HOPE IT ISN'T THAT EITHER BUT IT COULD BE THAT
THOUGH THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS WILL BE PERMANENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS THE MOST APs YOU'VE EVER TAKEN DURING YOUR HIGH SCHOOL CAREER SO MAYBE THE DIZZY SPELLS ARE JUST YOUR BODY'S REACTION GETTING USED TO THE NEW LEVEL OF EXHAUSTION FROM SCHOOL RATHER THAN THEM STEMMING FROM THE EXHAUSTION FROM SCHOOL ITSELF
BUT YOU CAN'T REALLY KNOW FOR SURE YET
ALSO YOU SHOULDN'T COMPARE HOW YOU'RE FEELING WITH THIS MANY CLASSES TO YOUR FRIENDS
YOU ARE YOU AND YOU ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS; HOW MUCH THEY CAN HANDLE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE
TAKE IT FROM ME BECAUSE I USED TO MAKE THIS SAME MISTAKE
AND IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT FEELING NOT AS SMART AS THEM OR SOMETHING DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN ISSUE OF HOW SMART OR INTELLIGENT YOU ARE IT COULD BE OTHER THINGS LIKE HOW MUCH ENERGY YOU USE UP WHEN WORKING AND HOW WELL YOU HANDLE STRESS

BACK ON TOPIC THOUGH I HOPE IT WORKS OUT
GOOD LUCK FRIEND

 

THANKS KIM I think I managed to figure it out with very precise reading in different sources and making a legal essay out of it or at least I'll settle for this. BUT THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF TOLKIEN MYSTERIES UNSOLVED AND I HOPE YOU WILL HAVE GREATER SUCCESS AT SOLVING HITMANANIME MYSTERIES THAN YOU HAVE HAD SO FAR

 

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2 hours ago, Claudius I said:

 

 

this is a great fully detailed report
as in an actual report wow

reward yourself with some sleep

3 hours ago, Hitori said:

hey shh....that's old news.....

i agree

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

same

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2 hours ago, Claudius I said:

WELL I HOPE IT ISN'T THAT EITHER BUT IT COULD BE THAT
THOUGH THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS WILL BE PERMANENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS THE MOST APs YOU'VE EVER TAKEN DURING YOUR HIGH SCHOOL CAREER SO MAYBE THE DIZZY SPELLS ARE JUST YOUR BODY'S REACTION GETTING USED TO THE NEW LEVEL OF EXHAUSTION FROM SCHOOL RATHER THAN THEM STEMMING FROM THE EXHAUSTION FROM SCHOOL ITSELF
BUT YOU CAN'T REALLY KNOW FOR SURE YET
ALSO YOU SHOULDN'T COMPARE HOW YOU'RE FEELING WITH THIS MANY CLASSES TO YOUR FRIENDS
YOU ARE YOU AND YOU ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS; HOW MUCH THEY CAN HANDLE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE
TAKE IT FROM ME BECAUSE I USED TO MAKE THIS SAME MISTAKE
AND IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT FEELING NOT AS SMART AS THEM OR SOMETHING DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN ISSUE OF HOW SMART OR INTELLIGENT YOU ARE IT COULD BE OTHER THINGS LIKE HOW MUCH ENERGY YOU USE UP WHEN WORKING AND HOW WELL YOU HANDLE STRESS

BACK ON TOPIC THOUGH I HOPE IT WORKS OUT
GOOD LUCK FRIEND

 

THANKS KIM I think I managed to figure it out with very precise reading in different sources and making a legal essay out of it or at least I'll settle for this. BUT THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF TOLKIEN MYSTERIES UNSOLVED AND I HOPE YOU WILL HAVE GREATER SUCCESS AT SOLVING HITMANANIME MYSTERIES THAN YOU HAVE HAD SO FAR

 

WOW YOUR REPORT IS SO DETAILED AND BEAUTIFUL AND WELL WRITTEN I LOVE YOUR PASSION IT IS INSPIRING

 

ALSO OOPS YEAH THAT IS A HABIT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET MYSELF OUT OF RECENTLY....U REALLY WOKE ME UP THANKS HATT!! I WILL TRY MY BEST AS KIM INSTEAD OF A STUDENT AT MY SUPER SMART YET STRESSFUL SCHOOL

 

AND YES IM VERY EXCITED TO SHITPOST WITH YOU ABOUT HITMANIME AND HITORI TOMORROW, MAYBE ILL UNCOVER SOME MYSTERIES WHILE IM AT IT

2 hours ago, Claudius I said:

I can't believe I just spent like 2 hours researching and typing all that.

i can and it is wonderful

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me: (listening to hitori and others' cover of kokoro) wow what a beautiful song with a beautiful meaning

hitori: (heartfelt singing) kitto hitori wa sabishii

me: (crying) w-what a b-beautiful song with a b-b-b-b

 

 

 

 

man i sure am glad kitty cleared up hitori's status for me earlier because whenever i heard that line i had to hold back tears BECAUSE WHAT IF THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON WHY SHE DISAPPEARED......WHAT IF THAT LINE ACTUALLY MEANT LESS "surely being lonely must have been painful" AND MORE "surely hitori was lonely" BECAUSE AGAIN SHE HAS ALWAYS RELATIVELY DISTANT FROM THE COMMUNITY AND HER FANS.....im so glad that it's not really the case and that she's (hopefully) living her life happily ;-;

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6 hours ago, Trisitei said:

this is a great fully detailed report
as in an actual report wow

reward yourself with some sleep

6 hours ago, Hitori said:

WOW YOUR REPORT IS SO DETAILED AND BEAUTIFUL AND WELL WRITTEN I LOVE YOUR PASSION IT IS INSPIRING

 

ALSO OOPS YEAH THAT IS A HABIT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET MYSELF OUT OF RECENTLY....U REALLY WOKE ME UP THANKS HATT!! I WILL TRY MY BEST AS KIM INSTEAD OF A STUDENT AT MY SUPER SMART YET STRESSFUL SCHOOL

 

AND YES IM VERY EXCITED TO SHITPOST WITH YOU ABOUT HITMANIME AND HITORI TOMORROW, MAYBE ILL UNCOVER SOME MYSTERIES WHILE IM AT IT

i can and it is wonderful

I love you guys.

 

THANKS
OF COURSE I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE THIS MANY CLASSES I'M JUST SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T COMPARE YOURSELF TO OTHER STUDENTS
SO I GUESS THIS YEAR WILL SHOW WHETHER HAVING THIS MANY CLASSES IS SOMETHING YOU CAN AND WANT TO DO
SO YOU'RE NOT ONLY LEARNING A LOT OF SCHOOL STUFF BUT ALSO A VALUABLE LIFE LESSON HEH
I HOPE YOU'LL DO SUPER WELL!!!

 

I AM ALSO VERY EXCITED TO SHITPOST WITH YOU AND I LOOK FORWARD TO LEARNING THINGS ABOUT HITMANANIME AND HITORI
MAYBE YOU WILL UNCOVER SOME MYSTERIES BECAUSE WRITING THINGS DOWN CAN BRING YOU TO NEW INSIGHTS AS OPPOSED TO JUST THINKING ABOUT IT
IT'S BECAUSE THOUGHTS ARE UNSTRUCTURED BUT WRITING IT DOWN FORCES YOU TO MOULD IT INTO A STRUCTURE

You are wonderful too, Kim.

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6 hours ago, Claudius I said:

I love you guys.

 

THANKS
OF COURSE I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE THIS MANY CLASSES I'M JUST SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T COMPARE YOURSELF TO OTHER STUDENTS
SO I GUESS THIS YEAR WILL SHOW WHETHER HAVING THIS MANY CLASSES IS SOMETHING YOU CAN AND WANT TO DO
SO YOU'RE NOT ONLY LEARNING A LOT OF SCHOOL STUFF BUT ALSO A VALUABLE LIFE LESSON HEH
I HOPE YOU'LL DO SUPER WELL!!!

 

I AM ALSO VERY EXCITED TO SHITPOST WITH YOU AND I LOOK FORWARD TO LEARNING THINGS ABOUT HITMANANIME AND HITORI
MAYBE YOU WILL UNCOVER SOME MYSTERIES BECAUSE WRITING THINGS DOWN CAN BRING YOU TO NEW INSIGHTS AS OPPOSED TO JUST THINKING ABOUT IT
IT'S BECAUSE THOUGHTS ARE UNSTRUCTURED BUT WRITING IT DOWN FORCES YOU TO MOULD IT INTO A STRUCTURE

You are wonderful too, Kim.

i love you too =)

 

AND YEAH HAHA I GOT WHAT U MEANT AND I HOPE I'LL DO SUPER WELL TOO THANKS

 

WOW THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING EXCEPT U PUT IT INTO WORDS WHICH IS FUNNY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'LL BE DOING LATER TODAY HEH

THANKS HATT

Edited by Hitori
stan hitori
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