Green Poet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Yes. I buy that more than the fact that he's sk throwing his game away for a pointless 1 v 1 that ends in him losing if he's sk. 5/3/1 Assuming he 1 v 1's scum and lynches scum. 5/2/1 SCUM KNOW WHO HE IS. They can just shoot him. If he has a vest it takes two nights to kill him. Or for gods sake he gets lynched tomorrow and flips sk gg. Either way he basically is throwing away the game. LIKE SERIOUSLY. If he is an sk and he 1 v 1's with town he loses. If he goes into a 1 v 1 with scum as sk he most likely gets hunted down by scum and he LOSES. Role cop is WAY MORE likely than fucking sk throwing away the game for no reason. The only thing that would make sense is if Euk has the medkit and still has it right now. Which means he can get two kills tonight or some shit. AND IF HE HAS THE MEDKIT THEN THAT MEANS TWO KILLS HAPPENED LAST NIGHT. Why would mafia choose to kill SK when the standard mafia wincon is to reach parity with town? If an SK exists, they've shown that they're willing to kill townies over mafia since N1, and that's not going to change in LYLO when every flip in this game has been a townie. And with all of the variations to roles in this game, why assume that SK can't win once mafia wins? Why discard the possibility that Euklyd is the mafia N1 and N2 NKer, or even simply a mafia rolecop? HIS WATCHER CLAIMED DELIBERATELY STATED THAT HE WAS TRYING TO SEE WHO FFM TARGETED IT WAS FUCKING OBVIOUS THAT HE MEANT GOD DAMN TRACKER YOU MORON. HE EVEN SAID IN A LATER POST THAT HE MEANT TRACKER. Yeah. . . that's what I said. We established a while ago that he claimed tracker; what isn't clear is whether or not the "indefinitely delayed result" thing is part of his role or something he assumed off of his permahook notification. In any case, why are you so intent on arguing this? Like, even if Darros is one-day-belated town tracker, all that that would establish is that town has slightly less powerful total investigative ability than they would have if Darros got his results every night. That level of rolespec isn't going to clear Euklyd. Sorry for the moron thing. I am slightly in a bad mood. Real life shit. No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 If Junko's voodoo is real, Refa's at L-1. If you must lynch Refa, you and Elie can force him to post the phrase whenever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Why would mafia choose to kill SK when the standard mafia wincon is to reach parity with town? If an SK exists, they've shown that they're willing to kill townies over mafia since N1, and that's not going to change in LYLO when every flip in this game has been a townie. And with all of the variations to roles in this game, why assume that SK can't win once mafia wins? Why discard the possibility that Euklyd is the mafia N1 and N2 NKer, or even simply a mafia rolecop? Yeah. . . that's what I said. We established a while ago that he claimed tracker; what isn't clear is whether or not the "indefinitely delayed result" thing is part of his role or something he assumed off of his permahook notification. In any case, why are you so intent on arguing this? Like, even if Darros is one-day-belated town tracker, all that that would establish is that town has slightly less powerful total investigative ability than they would have if Darros got his results every night. That level of rolespec isn't going to clear Euklyd. No worries. They have to reach Parity I'm pretty sure. If it's 3-3-1 Sk can still technically win and Mafia don't control the votes. And SK's aren't allowed to win with scum, it's against their win con. Wat. If Junko's voodoo is real, Refa's at L-1. If you must lynch Refa, you and Elie can force him to post the phrase whenever you want. He won't self hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It just does not make sense to me why you would choose a nobody(sorry eurkins!) over scumreads. I wanted to be able to take a position on nullreads, because I was already reasonably sure about scum. I've come to the conclusion that Euklyd is basically guaranteed to be SK. Why? 1. We have no claimed vigs. Ergo, all NKs must have been from Iris' medkit, the mafia factional, or an SK. 2. We have a discrepancy in Refa's claimed role despite neither claim being an obviously townie or scummy role, which fundamentally does not make sense. Knowing this, consider: It's N1 and mafia decides to kill bearclaw. SK!Euklyd kills Eury. At massclaim, SK!Euklyd concedes that he visited Eury N1 because he knows there may be two trackers in this game, and it's too dangerous to claim otherwise. It's N2 and mafia kills eclipse. SK!Euklyd decides to kill Refa. SK!Euklyd is currently calling Refa out on having BPV instead of bomb because for whatever reason Refa isn't dead despite being shot. This explains why there's such a small contradiction between their accounts of Refa's role. It also explains why Euklyd allegedly decided to "rolecop" someone like Eury instead of me, the ideal rolecop target for N1. This line of reasoning does not clear Refa of being mafia, and arguably increases the chance that he actually is, but it explains perfectly why Euklyd would try to implicate Refa over a role discrepancy this small. Refa has no reason to lie about having bomb over BPV, and Euklyd has no reason to lie about Refa being BPV over bomb. . . except in this case. ##Unvote ##Vote: Euklyd Green Poet, your case on me literally revolves around me telling the truth, hitting Refa's BPV, NOT BLOWING UP, and Refa LYING ANYWAYS. What the hell even is this case? You are assuming I'm telling the truth, Refa is lying, and you are voting me anyways. Why are you not voting for Refa, who is, by your logic, lying scum. Lying Refa is AT THE VERY LEAST a Serial Killer, although I'm still leaning towards scum. Why are you not voting for someone that you - by your own admission - believe to be lying? You sound like you're simply trying to justify a read you already have on me because ???, when you should be taking a step back and reevaluating your own biases. like what the fuck Refa has been scumslipping left and right and you've been voting me on SK-spec, when you KNOW such speculation relies on Refa lying about his role. Would you like me to claim the flavor I got from Refa as well? I can do that. I get the flavor behind abilities as well. I don't get character names, or ability names, but I get justification for why abilities exist, and what abilities do. actually I'll do it anyways: Refa's hijack is because he can persuade USER A to target USER B instead of his intended target (literally making a deal). The BPV is because he is accidentally put on playerlists multiple times, and so the first time he's targeted by a kill, it hits the wrong playerslot. This way, when Refa flips scum (or SK, which is possible), you can't go saying "Oh Euklyd is actually just SK/scum, and he hit Refa's BPV, and that's why he knows." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Got to say that I'm with Shinori here. If Refa refuses to do the honor himself, I'll volunteer to do it in case he's lying and is also a lynch-bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 do people get their results after all of the night actions have been submitted? This is really important so don't hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 You still haven't justified why you voted euklyd. Pretty sure he did. If you don't like it for whatever reason, you probably should say that. It's N2 and mafia kills eclipse. SK!Euklyd decides to kill Refa. SK!Euklyd is currently calling Refa out on having BPV instead of bomb because for whatever reason Refa isn't dead despite being shot. This explains why there's such a small contradiction between their accounts of Refa's role. It also explains why Euklyd allegedly decided to "rolecop" someone like Eury instead of me, the ideal rolecop target for N1. If I had a BPV and got shot, I'd claim it; especially as Mafia actually, because FMPOV the only people who'd be able to shoot me would be 1) The SK or 2) Whoever got Iris' medkit. And I felt like most of his play has been pretty weak all game. He was already my second highest scum read when this phase started. And I seriously think that we have a role cop cause otherwise our investigation roles suck. A tracker that doesn't get his stuff til the day after a tracker that doesn't get his stuff and only people who target him get it and my one shot cop. My play has been pretty weak, huh? Why have you never called me out on this before then? Rolecop is a lame town investigation role that is roughly as powerful as a Tracker. You keep on defending Euklyd based on Rolespec, but it's actually dumb because my role is more powerful than his is. I don't like it when my town reads don't get obvious things! Assuming it's 5/3/1 with 3 scum and an sk. IF sk goes into a 1 v 1 with town or scum at this phase and he is lying about something he pretty much is guaranteed to lose. Why would Euk start a 1 v 1 if it means he basically definitely loses. News flash, it was a dumb as fuck idea as Mafia too. It'd be pretty obvious who the scum team is, and honestly I don't know why Euklyd decided to do this ridiculous 1v1 with me. GP...Refa had a null/almost leaning scum read on me until I claimed. That means according to his eyes if I'm not that trustworthy why would kopf be 100% confirmed town unless he knows something that we don't know? Null Shinori- Remember Elieson being forgettable? I feel like Shinori was really quite memorable during Day 1 and then dropped off altogether in the following days, which made me unsure of my hard town read. Still, even with that being the case, the fact that he got targeted by some role that stops him from using his actions (which seems like a scum role if there ever was one) makes me feel better about it. Good enough to put him above learning scum, at least! Hmm? Unless I'm mistaken, the category is null, not null leaning scum. Your role made me feel like you were town. Are my reads not allowed to progress? Must they remain forever stagnated? If Junko's voodoo is real, Refa's at L-1. If you must lynch Refa, you and Elie can force him to post the phrase whenever you want. what no no i am not at L-1 He won't self hammer. Why are you so confident about that? Surely as Mafia, I would have no problems with self hammering? Oh, but maybe you think I'm the SK. However...if that was the case, you'd think Euklyd would have outed something about that earlier if he was town. Maybe you think he's lying though, in which case I'd have to ask why you're not voting for him. But don't worry, if a Euklyd lynch is impossible, I will definitely self hammer. When it comes to that point, I'll be sure to give my final reads on the scumteam (and the SK, of course!). After my flip, it'll be easy for town to kill them all off. As one of my town reads, surely that should satisfy you. Lying Refa is AT THE VERY LEAST a Serial Killer, although I'm still leaning towards scum. Why are you not voting for someone that you - by your own admission - believe to be lying? You sound like you're simply trying to justify a read you already have on me because ???, when you should be taking a step back and reevaluating your own biases. like what the fuck Refa has been scumslipping left and right and you've been voting me on SK-spec So, you believe me to be Mafia, do you? Then I have to ask...why earlier when you were trying to catch scum for future phases, did you only have 1 person pegged as a potential scumbuddy for me? Surely you know there must be at least 3 Mafia at this point, right? I really must question your short sightedness. If I really had been scumslipping, I would've been lynched by now. I guess the fact that I haven't is rather telling, no? Would you like me to claim the flavor I got from Refa as well? I can do that. I get the flavor behind abilities as well. I don't get character names, or ability names, but I get justification for why abilities exist, and what abilities do. actually I'll do it anyways: Refa's hijack is because he can persuade USER A to target USER B instead of his intended target (literally making a deal). The BPV is because he is accidentally put on playerlists multiple times, and so the first time he's targeted by a kill, it hits the wrong playerslot. Very convincing. However...when if I do flip, I implore town to take a very close look at my Role PM. Today or tomorrow Euklyd, you will be lynched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I got results after every night action I submit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Got to say that I'm with Shinori here. If Refa refuses to do the honor himself, I'll volunteer to do it in case he's lying and is also a lynch-bomb. Are you the SK Kopfjager? do people get their results after all of the night actions have been submitted? This is really important so don't hammer. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Why are you so confident about that? Surely as Mafia, I would have no problems with self hammering? Oh, but maybe you think I'm the SK. However...if that was the case, you'd think Euklyd would have outed something about that earlier if he was town. Maybe you think he's lying though, in which case I'd have to ask why you're not voting for him. Well if you're town you won't. If you're sk, you won't. If you're scum you will. However Non-consecutive redirector and BPV sounds more like SK than scum imo. That's just personal opinion though. And if you have already ghost voted yourself once then yeah you are at L-1 unless I missed something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well if you're town you won't. If you're sk, you won't. If you're scum you will. However Non-consecutive redirector and BPV sounds more like SK than scum imo. That's just personal opinion though. And if you have already ghost voted yourself once then yeah you are at L-1 unless I missed something. Au contraire, if I was the SK, I would be absolutely against the idea. That would be anti wincon, after all. Mafia on the other hand has been proven to self hammer in past games, so why wouldn't I do it in this game if I was Mafia? If I was SK, surely Euklyd would have mentioned something about that with his claimed Rolecop...why would he lie about it? Junko unvoted me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I'd assume that if the sk's kill was factional it wouldn't show up on a role cop's report. I can ask BBM or SB when one of them are on skype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Au contraire, if I was the SK, I would be absolutely against the idea. That would be anti wincon, after all. Mafia on the other hand has been proven to self hammer in past games, so why wouldn't I do it in this game if I was Mafia? Also this is what I said already. Why are you just repeating what I said? I said I think your role is also more likely to be sk than scum. It just sounds more sk like. I mean I'm pretty sure we have seen that exact variant of sk before in past games. Thus I'm leaning on you being more sk than scum. Thus I doubt you will self hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Don't have terribly much time atm. @Euklyd - okay, I think I see what you mean? You're saying that Refa would have to lie for you to have a nightkill, so we should lynch him regardless of what you are, right? ##Unvote @Wen - I misspoke earlier when I said that Refa was at L-1. Junko unvoted him, so we would need you and one more in order to coerce a Refa self-voodoo-hammer. I guess I would be willing to do it, since my role has less utility than anyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Kopfjager, if you truly think that I am scum, then vote me and be done with it. Otherwise vote Euklyd. The choice is yours. Anyways, I was having a hard time grasping what I thought of Euklyd's play until recently when it just came to me. It's very much l myself was in Fakeclaim. Early on he came across as pretty scummy and then his play improved on later days. Finally, he got himself into a 1v1 with Town and got himself lynched. It hasn't happened yet, but it's only a matter of time really. Also this is what I said already. Why are you just repeating what I said? I said I think your role is also more likely to be sk than scum. It just sounds more sk like. I mean I'm pretty sure we have seen that exact variant of sk before in past games. Thus I'm leaning on you being more sk than scum. Thus I doubt you will self hammer. Hijacker is not a very SKish role...you're grasping. @Wen - I misspoke earlier when I said that Refa was at L-1. Junko unvoted him, so we would need you and one more in order to coerce a Refa self-voodoo-hammer. I guess I would be willing to do it, since my role has less utility than anyone else's. I don't get why people think that I'm scum and Lynch Bomb because that would be bastard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Also Euklyd never replied to Junko's points. Such pro, obvious town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 If refa was sk and had the power to redirect kills doesn't that seem a bit op. He could take out two targets of choice each night if he wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I could do that as Mafia too, considering there is an SK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Actually looking back, I'm pretty sure Euklyd is just choicepicking the arguments against him that are bad and ignoring the rest. Nice try, that doesn't work. I've tried it before as scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Very convincing. However...when if I do flip, I implore town to take a very close look at my Role PM. Today or tomorrow Euklyd, you will be lynched. So in otherwords you know that there will be a tomorrow if you die? If you're town it would be plausible that the game could end considering it's potential LYLO. Yet you are saying that you know there will be a tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 So in otherwords you know that there will be a tomorrow if you die? If you're town it would be plausible that the game could end considering it's potential LYLO. Yet you are saying that you know there will be a tomorrow? Nice try, I already explained why there couldn't be 4 Mafia members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KNOWING THERE WILL BE A TOMORROW. 5/3/1 CURRENT NUMBERS MOST LIKELY. 4/3/1 HYPOTHETICAL MISSLYNCH IF YOU'RE TOWN 2/3/1 BOTH SCUM AND SK KILL TOWN. SCUM WINS CAUSE PARITY? THE GAME COULD END IN A 5/3/1 SCENARIO. WHAT THE FUCK DOES MY POST HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A 4 MAN SCUM TEAM? You are saying you know there will be a tomorrow. WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No, scum can't win with the SK. You said it yourself before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 You're grasping so hard for reasons that I'm scum and failing on all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 *with the SK alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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