I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[MRDRHAWK]

I think Darros' claim is a null tell in all honesty. It makes sense why there's two trackers based upon the kink in my own variant of the role, and it's not overly strong anyways. Plus, he outed the existence of a permahooker which Shinori confirmed, so I'm not wanting to lynch him any time soon.

As for your other point, I'm not even dignifying it with a response because Shinori already confirmed Wen town. If you've actually read my posts at all this game, you'd know that Shinori's been my strongest townread all game, so obviously I'm trusting his word.

In fact, I'd love it if we could make a Junko lynch happen, since I'm positive he's scum now. This push on me when there's an obvious 1v1 between Refa & Euk going on is so goddamn bad I can't even write it off as newbie play anymore. In fact, if Euk flips scum, I'd say it confirms Junko as scum.

[SB.]

Euklyd (2): Refa, Polydeuces

Refa (2): Euklyd, Junko

Polydeuces (1): Green Poet

Not Voting (4): Shinori, Elieson, Kopfjager, Darros

With 9 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch at deadline and 5 to hammer. Phase ends in 29 hours and 15 minutes, on Monday May 5th at 5:15 PM EST (10:15 PM GMT).

It is also potential LYLO.

[SB.]

On another note, any night results you get will have flavour tailored to suit your role, even if the flavour of a theoretical roleblocker (for example) who targeted you may contradict this. Flavour won't break the game.

[euklyd]

I think Darros' claim is a null tell in all honesty. It makes sense why there's two trackers based upon the kink in my own variant of the role, and it's not overly strong anyways. Plus, he outed the existence of a permahooker which Shinori confirmed, so I'm not wanting to lynch him any time soon.

As for your other point, I'm not even dignifying it with a response because Shinori already confirmed Wen town. If you've actually read my posts at all this game, you'd know that Shinori's been my strongest townread all game, so obviously I'm trusting his word.

In fact, I'd love it if we could make a Junko lynch happen, since I'm positive he's scum now. This push on me when there's an obvious 1v1 between Refa & Euk going on is so goddamn bad I can't even write it off as newbie play anymore. In fact, if Euk flips scum, I'd say it confirms Junko as scum.

Poly, why are you voting me?

You have given no justification of any kind, despite being told why it's very important to do so.

I don't really have a lot to say right now, and I have a fencing meet for the next ~5 or so hours.

People should lynch Refa for reasons I've already outlined.

[MRDRHAWK]

I've been town reading Refa for much of the game, and I'm not going to suddenly 180 on one of my lower reads' word that he's scum. And if the choice between one of my stronger townreads or a null-leaning-scum read, I'm gonna go with the latter for obvious reasons.

That much being said, if we can turn around and make a Junko lynch happen (because I'm sure that Junko is scum at this point), I'll gladly move my vote.

[Junk]

##unvote

## vote poly

You still haven't justified why you voted euklyd.

Euklyd I have one question for you though. Why did you investigate eurykins on night 1? I know you said it was because she was cruising under your radar but from your day 1 content it seemed like your thoughts on who was scum went something like this FFM=elie=iris>darros. Why would you waste an investigation on someone who was a null read instead of a scumread. It just does not make sense to me why you would choose a nobody(sorry eurkins!) over scumreads.

Noticed this with refa as well. Felt as if your scumreads on D2 were not refa so why investigate him. In all honesty I would have expected you to investigate someone like elieson or kopflajer instead. Overall from a perspective of a townie rolecop those investigations don't seem to make sense. Why wouldn't you go after scumreads? Also I believe at the time mostly everyone thought refa was town so again why...?

PEDIT: Poly wanting to lynch me makes me affect his read in a good and bad way because at least he is not planning to just wagon euklyd for barely any reason. But it makes me feel bad because his reasoning is terrible. Me calling you out on your vote makes me scummy. If you can give more justification then tell me at least.

[Shinori]

What the fuck is this not a 1 v 1?

THIS GAME.

[Refa]

Junko brings up a valid point that Euklyd should definitely answer.

I'll have a post out after I'm done with these classes. It'll most likely be my last post on Euklyd vs Me (disregarding replies). Obviously I'd rather not get lynched, but I'm exhausted of arguing the same points over and over again. Afterwards, I'll be spending my time focusing on my other scumreads.

[Green Poet]

I've come to the conclusion that Euklyd is basically guaranteed to be SK. Why?

1. We have no claimed vigs. Ergo, all NKs must have been from Iris' medkit, the mafia factional, or an SK.

2. We have a discrepancy in Refa's claimed role despite neither claim being an obviously townie or scummy role, which fundamentally does not make sense.

Knowing this, consider:

It's N1 and mafia decides to kill bearclaw. SK!Euklyd kills Eury. At massclaim, SK!Euklyd concedes that he visited Eury N1 because he knows there may be two trackers in this game, and it's too dangerous to claim otherwise.

It's N2 and mafia kills eclipse. SK!Euklyd decides to kill Refa. SK!Euklyd is currently calling Refa out on having BPV instead of bomb because for whatever reason Refa isn't dead despite being shot. This explains why there's such a small contradiction between their accounts of Refa's role. It also explains why Euklyd allegedly decided to "rolecop" someone like Eury instead of me, the ideal rolecop target for N1.

This line of reasoning does not clear Refa of being mafia, and arguably increases the chance that he actually is, but it explains perfectly why Euklyd would try to implicate Refa over a role discrepancy this small. Refa has no reason to lie about having bomb over BPV, and Euklyd has no reason to lie about Refa being BPV over bomb. . . except in this case.

##Unvote

##Vote: Euklyd

[Junk]

I've come to the conclusion that Euklyd is basically guaranteed to be SK. Why?

1. We have no claimed vigs. Ergo, all NKs must have been from Iris' medkit, the mafia factional, or an SK.

2. We have a discrepancy in Refa's claimed role despite neither claim being an obviously townie or scummy role, which fundamentally does not make sense.

Knowing this, consider:

It's N1 and mafia decides to kill bearclaw. SK!Euklyd kills Eury. At massclaim, SK!Euklyd concedes that he visited Eury N1 because he knows there may be two trackers in this game, and it's too dangerous to claim otherwise.

It's N2 and mafia kills eclipse. SK!Euklyd decides to kill Refa. SK!Euklyd is currently calling Refa out on having BPV instead of bomb because for whatever reason Refa isn't dead despite being shot. This explains why there's such a small contradiction between their accounts of Refa's role. It also explains why Euklyd allegedly decided to "rolecop" someone like Eury instead of me, the ideal rolecop target for N1.

This line of reasoning does not clear Refa of being mafia, and arguably increases the chance that he actually is, but it explains perfectly why Euklyd would try to implicate Refa over a role discrepancy this small. Refa has no reason to lie about having bomb over BPV, and Euklyd has no reason to lie about Refa being BPV over bomb. . . except in this case.

##Unvote

##Vote: Euklyd

there is one problem with that logic though, why claim rolecop? Assumming we lynch someone that isn't the sk the mafia will most likely kill euklyd tonight for claiming rolecop. Doesn't that go against his wincon? Unless you are suggesting that the sk is bulletproof.

[Green Poet]

there is one problem with that logic though, why claim rolecop? Assumming we lynch someone that isn't the sk the mafia will most likely kill euklyd tonight for claiming rolecop. Doesn't that go against his wincon? Unless you are suggesting that the sk is bulletproof.

Rolecop!Euklyd can't have killed Eury, and would have a legit result on Refa. It's the ideal cover-up for SK!Euklyd because he can safely claim visits to NK targets.

Mafia has no reason to NK SK over a townie in LYLO.

[Shinori]

##Vote: Refa

Felt like he scum slipped partially when he said Kopf was 100% cleared. And I felt like most of his play has been pretty weak all game. He was already my second highest scum read when this phase started. And I seriously think that we have a role cop cause otherwise our investigation roles suck. A tracker that doesn't get his stuff til the day after a tracker that doesn't get his stuff and only people who target him get it and my one shot cop.

GP your sk theory on euk is pretty bad. Why would an sk make a 1 for 1 situation at this point in time in the game?

[Shinori]

Assuming it's 5/3/1 with 3 scum and an sk.

IF sk goes into a 1 v 1 with town or scum at this phase and he is lying about something he pretty much is guaranteed to lose.

Why would Euk start a 1 v 1 if it means he basically definitely loses.

[Green Poet]

Felt like he scum slipped partially when he said Kopf was 100% cleared. And I felt like most of his play has been pretty weak all game. He was already my second highest scum read when this phase started.

And I seriously think that we have a role cop cause otherwise our investigation roles suck. A tracker that doesn't get his stuff til the day after a tracker that doesn't get his stuff and only people who target him get it and my one shot cop.

GP your sk theory on euk is pretty bad. Why would an sk make a 1 for 1 situation at this point in time in the game?

-Kopf being cleared is pretty much common knowledge. He gave info to confirmed town and was verified innocent by you. Him saying "100% cleared" after this was established isn't scummy at all.

-Darros doesn't have a one-day delay. He never outed his result, and is claiming regular tracker that was permahooked.

-Towncred. Pointing out Refa lied about his role >> Refa lynch; Refa flips scum and Euklyd goes free. It's also entirely possible Euklyd isn't SK, but rather the mafioso that was sent to carry out both N1 and N2's night kills.

My theory stands in that it's far more likely he killed Eury rather than rolecopped her, and that he's claiming Refa is BPV instead of janitor or something incriminating because he tested it with a lethal action. It's possible that Refa is mafia and Euklyd is SK, but the way roles have played out give far more certainty to the latter.

[Shinori]

GP...Refa had a null/almost leaning scum read on me until I claimed. That means according to his eyes if I'm not that trustworthy why would kopf be 100% confirmed town unless he knows something that we don't know?

It took me a minute to realize TOTS was me. The only message I got was that it failed, and that it wont be able to work until further notice. In the thread FFM, who I targeted, said that his role will cause most actions used on him to fail. I'm a watcher, with the unfortunate side effect of not knowing my results until a night later, and I was going to see who FFM was targeting. I definitely know my action failed though, I was told explicitly.

Really he doesn't?

So with you're random SK euk theory craft you are admitting that Refa probably lied about his role yet you would rather lynch him even though he's telling the truth and two kills still happened last night? Where did the other kill come from? Iris most likely gave the medkit to highly probable town. So basically she probably gave it to either me Eclipse or YOU GP. I highly doubt she would have gave it to anyone else. I don't have it, I never got it. Eclipse flipped town and could have had it but we will never know that and unless you shot someone with it last night then how do you explain the second kill?

[Elieson]

I finally said screw Sprint and got anew phone today after getting shitty support for two days.

This SK Euklyd thing relies heavily on refa being a bomb in accordance with his claim, and I still think that these arguments are pointless, with the game having /this many/ kills floating about. Plus, your case hinges on refa being hit, which he hasn't claimed one way or another (not that I've seen anyway).

Also, an Sk pushing a 1v1 has almost nothing to gain, because even if Euk was SK, refa's flip wont verify Euk as Town or scum or even itp.

I have to catch up on junko and pretty much the entire past 24 hrs, but I still disbelieve Refa being town at this point.

And srsly is kopf cleared as town now?

[Green Poet]

Where did the other kill come from? Iris most likely gave the medkit to highly probable town. So basically she probably gave it to either me Eclipse or YOU GP. I highly doubt she would have gave it to anyone else. I don't have it, I never got it. Eclipse flipped town and could have had it but we will never know that and unless you shot someone with it last night then how do you explain the second kill?

We have no proof that you didn't get it. For all I know, you could be scum and could have gotten the medkit, killing eclipse with it. Your doc on eclipse can't be verified, your inno on Wen is easily faked as scum via eclipse flip, and your blocked commute is also impossible to test.

Objectively, you're as clear as I am; to you, you have no idea if I'm scum and used the medkit. So rolespeccing is rather pointless, as there are so many ways to explain the kills:

1. Iris was the N2 factional kill. She gave the medkit to scum, who killed eclipse with it.

2. Iris was the N2 factional kill. She gave the medkit to eclipse, who didn't believe she was town and killed her with it.

3. Iris was the N2 factional kill. She gave the medkit to town, who didn't believe eclipse was town and killed her with it.

4. eclipse was the N2 factional kill. Whoever got Iris' medkit didn't believe she was town and killed her with it.

And this is only when assuming that Euklyd is SK and visited Refa. Like, if Euklyd was mafia NKer for both nights, then we're getting into double-digit possibilities.

GP...Refa had a null/almost leaning scum read on me until I claimed. That means according to his eyes if I'm not that trustworthy why would kopf be 100% confirmed town unless he knows something that we don't know?

Scum would know Wen is town. So regardless of what people think of your alignment, they can trust your claim that Wen is town, because the possibility that you and Wen are scumbuddies is precluded by eclipse's flip.

Also. . . for Refa not to trust/act as if he trusted an un-CC'ed alignment cop claim because he was reading them as scum based off of content would have been suicide regardless of alignment.

Really he doesn't?

Apparently not, no.

Darros first claimed one-night-delay watcher, then clarified it to be tracker. I believe that he then clarified that the "indefinite delay" result he got was based off of his being permahooked, which he initially mistook to be FFM's reflexive block.

There's so much ambiguity regarding what Darros' claims actually are (from the post I linked, you'd think he was claiming standard tracker) that I'm not sure what to make of them.

Shinori, do you actually think Euklyd is a town rolecop? You buy that he investigated, not killed, Eury, and that he got BPV on Refa by inspection instead of test?

[Green Poet]

This SK Euklyd thing relies heavily on refa being a bomb in accordance with his claim, and I still think that these arguments are pointless, with the game having /this many/ kills floating about. Plus, your case hinges on refa being hit, which he hasn't claimed one way or another (not that I've seen anyway).

How so?

[Shinori]

THAT POST YOU LINKED FROM DARROS SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HOW HE DOESNT HAVE THE CONDITIONAL AFFECT ON HIM.

[Elieson]

How so?

You're theorizing that SK Euk already tried to shoot Refa, and i don't see how that could have happened based on Refa claiming bomb. I think i explained t poorly before

[Shinori]

Shinori, do you actually think Euklyd is a town rolecop? You buy that he investigated, not killed, Eury, and that he got BPV on Refa by inspection instead of test?

Yes.

I buy that more than the fact that he's sk throwing his game away for a pointless 1 v 1 that ends in him losing if he's sk.

5/3/1 Assuming he 1 v 1's scum and lynches scum.

5/2/1 SCUM KNOW WHO HE IS. They can just shoot him. If he has a vest it takes two nights to kill him. Or for gods sake he gets lynched tomorrow and flips sk gg. Either way he basically is throwing away the game.

LIKE SERIOUSLY. If he is an sk and he 1 v 1's with town he loses. If he goes into a 1 v 1 with scum as sk he most likely gets hunted down by scum and he LOSES. Role cop is WAY MORE likely than fucking sk throwing away the game for no reason.

The only thing that would make sense is if Euk has the medkit and still has it right now. Which means he can get two kills tonight or some shit. AND IF HE HAS THE MEDKIT THEN THAT MEANS TWO KILLS HAPPENED LAST NIGHT.

[Green Poet]

THAT POST YOU LINKED FROM DARROS SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HOW HE DOESNT HAVE THE CONDITIONAL AFFECT ON HIM.

Yeah, which is odd, because Darros' first claim was one-day-late watcher, then tracker with ??? modifiers. So we still aren't sure what Darros' original role is. His claim doesn't mention the one-day-late bit.

You're theorizing that SK Euk already tried to shoot Refa, and i don't see how that could have happened based on Refa claiming bomb. I think i explained t poorly before

Oh, I see.

Basically, mafia!Refa could have been shot by SK!Euklyd, which is why the former's not claiming shot, and is instead claiming bomb (which will help scum!Refa explain why he isn't dead tomorrow if we lynched Euklyd or another non-Refa scum today).

[Shinori]

HIS WATCHER CLAIMED DELIBERATELY STATED THAT HE WAS TRYING TO SEE WHO FFM TARGETED IT WAS FUCKING OBVIOUS THAT HE MEANT GOD DAMN TRACKER YOU MORON.

HE EVEN SAID IN A LATER POST THAT HE MEANT TRACKER.

[Junk]

Yeah, which is odd, because Darros' first claim was one-day-late watcher, then tracker with ??? modifiers. So we still aren't sure what Darros' original role is. His claim doesn't mention the one-day-late bit.

Oh, I see.

Basically, mafia!Refa could have been shot by SK!Euklyd, which is why the former's not claiming shot, and is instead claiming bomb (which will help scum!Refa explain why he isn't dead tomorrow if we lynched Euklyd or another non-Refa scum today).

darros got the roles mixed up though remember

[Shinori]

Sorry for the moron thing. I am slightly in a bad mood. Real life shit.