Why does everyone hate Tellius now?

[shadowofchaos]

to be fair, nowadays people complaining about pairings are almost as annoying as the shippers themselves.

Basically this is what happened

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetBackdraft

"Eventually it gets to the point where people are so sick of flame wars about Event X, that this in turn causes flame wars conducted by those who want it to just die."

There's just no need to tell everyone how the paired endings are so annoying when they're completely optional.

My personal problem is that fans of the game who see games and say they "love them"... but in reality only like it for the opportunity to ship relationships between two (or more) fictional characters.

Conversations sucked. Yes. But the tradeoff was the buddy supports between any two people and affinities. Focus on gameplay more than character development. And it was a design decision. It was good enough.

(Please note, this is not directed at you, Nobody. It's just this fandom in general.)

What annoys me is the complaint I quoted earlier. Why the hell does the game have to cater to relationships between the characters, that fans mostly imagine anyway... just to "improve it" in their eyes? I'm pretty sure while we can't accurately count them... there are fans of the series that aren't vocal and could care less about any of the support "relationship couples" in said game.

I'm pretty sure somehow there would be complaints anyway even if they had some of those endings. "Why didn't they do this pairing? Why didn't they do this one?" Pairing arguments by fans to me, "OTP-wise" (I FUCKING hate that word) annoys me the hell of a lot more than eugenics. Radiant Dawn was good enough. You want to bash it for story? Fine. That's cool, I agree with you. Bashing it for gameplay design choices? Sure. That's cool. Bashing it for not having pairings? Who fucking cares?

[Snowy_One]

Why overplay the love story aspect so much? One of the larger fallacies of fiction is the obsessive need of individuals to jam romance subplots in where they really add little. IkexElincia is an example of this.

Also, considering Geoffrey's entire character is based around his love and loyalty for Elincia, it seems pretty ridiculous to have him end up with others, by in large to further the desire to create a Disney princess scenario.

Stepping aside from that, pretty much all non mechanical aspects of the Support system in RD were disastrous. I get what they were attempting from a customization standpoint, but torpedoing character development is not the way to go about it.

IMO, it's not 'the love aspect'. It's that so many of the characters, even ones that blatantly had at least some sort of bond (like Aran/Laura) didn't even get something like 'He remained close friends with the Holy Mother Laura, protecting the orphans well into his twilight years' despite that they're both the recruiting tutorial characters and not all that minor. Yet then Volug gets an altered ending if Nahlia dies? NAHLIA? He doesn't get an altered ending if he A supports her, but if she DIES?

It's very schitzo to be sure, and it axed most support convos to top it off. Plus, some of the pairing would have been just insanely stupid to get (like Ike/Ranulf, which would require arguably the worst/second worst Ike support in PoR followed up by ignoring a whole ton of really great support options for both in RD for it to even happen). Would going with 'overplayed LI' hurt? Yea. Still would have been FAR better than having none at all (and where is Ike/Mia paired ending?).

[Nobody]

My personal problem is that fans of the game who see games and say they "love them"... but in reality only like it for the opportunity to ship relationships between two (or more) fictional characters.

That's a generalization. I doubt most people are like this.

Conversations sucked. Yes. But the tradeoff was the buddy supports between any two people and affinities. Focus on gameplay more than character development. And it was a design decision. It was good enough.

(Please note, this is not directed at you, Nobody. It's just this fandom in general.)

What annoys me is the complaint I quoted earlier. Why the hell does the game have to cater to relationships between the characters, that fans mostly imagine anyway... just to "improve it" in their eyes? I'm pretty sure while we can't accurately count them... there are fans of the series that aren't vocal and could care less about any of the support "relationship couples" in said game.

I'm pretty sure somehow there would be complaints anyway even if they had some of those endings. "Why didn't they do this pairing? Why didn't they do this one?" Pairing arguments by fans to me, "OTP-wise" (I FUCKING hate that word) annoys me the hell of a lot more than eugenics. Radiant Dawn was good enough. You want to bash it for story? Fine. That's cool, I agree with you. Bashing it for gameplay design choices? Sure. That's cool. Bashing it for not having pairings? Who fucking cares?

Of course it wasn't aimed at me, I don't ship anything and find it even more silly than you do.

I just don't care at all. If people want to ship characters, what's the big deal?

The thing is, the people who are obnoxious about "OTPs" or whatever is the name, are just a small fraction of the fanbase. A (VERY) vocal minority. By the way you talk, it's almost as if the entire fire emblem fan base was like this.

The more story a character have, the better things are, objectively speaking. It's interesting to know what happens to those characters after the ending of the game.

About your last sentence, i personally don't care, but there are obviously people who do. Complaining about it if they like it is completely valid. I don't see how people caring about pairings or not affects the quality of a game as you imply. Do other people have such power to make you not enjoy a feature of a game just because they care too much, and are obnoxious about it?

It all comes down to your last sentence. Why care so much if other people have OTPs (lol at that word) or not? If that's their thing and they enjoy it, so be it.

Oh, and the lack of supports (not endings) is in general a big deal. What do I know about Edward? Nothing. What do I know about Leonardo? Nothing. What do I know about Laura? She was Aran's childhood friend and that's it. Support conversations add deepness to the story, which is a good thing, and lacking that is a flaw.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Nobody

[OrangeCrush980]

My personal problem is that fans of the game who see games and say they "love them"... but in reality only like it for the opportunity to ship relationships between two (or more) fictional characters.

Your Avatar x Olivia

[Siuloir]

Conversations sucked. Yes. But the tradeoff was the buddy supports between any two people and affinities. Focus on gameplay more than character development. And it was a design decision. It was good enough.

(Please note, this is not directed at you, Nobody. It's just this fandom in general.)

What annoys me is the complaint I quoted earlier. Why the hell does the game have to cater to relationships between the characters, that fans mostly imagine anyway... just to "improve it" in their eyes? I'm pretty sure while we can't accurately count them... there are fans of the series that aren't vocal and could care less about any of the support "relationship couples" in said game.

Pretty much exactly my sentiments. The emphasis was deliberately placed on mechanics, which is absolutely fine. Would I have preferred the cast was a bit more fleshed out? Certainly. If nothing else, they were trying something new.

I still massively enjoy Radiant Dawn.

IMO, it's not 'the love aspect'. It's that so many of the characters, even ones that blatantly had at least some sort of bond (like Aran/Laura) didn't even get something like 'He remained close friends with the Holy Mother Laura, protecting the orphans well into his twilight years' despite that they're both the recruiting tutorial characters and not all that minor. Yet then Volug gets an altered ending if Nahlia dies? NAHLIA? He doesn't get an altered ending if he A supports her, but if she DIES?

It's very schitzo to be sure, and it axed most support convos to top it off. Plus, some of the pairing would have been just insanely stupid to get (like Ike/Ranulf, which would require arguably the worst/second worst Ike support in PoR followed up by ignoring a whole ton of really great support options for both in RD for it to even happen). Would going with 'overplayed LI' hurt? Yea. Still would have been FAR better than having none at all (and where is Ike/Mia paired ending?).

Again, I don't disagree that there needed to be more character fluff there. I would have preferred it even, (though as a side note I also dislike the egregious turn requirements on the GBA supports and the fact that I have to play suboptimally if I want to see the story.)

There's nothing wrong with a decent-sized selection of paired endings. FE7 has a lot. So does FE8. And nobody ever complained about that.

As for Geoffrey, plenty of people in real life don't end up with the first person they ever loved. And I never felt Elincia actually returned his feelings. I will agree that he did love her though, at least for awhile.

They're not necessarily a blinding necessity either.

Geoffrey's very limited screen time is themed entirely around Elincia. Considering how relatively little development he gets, it would be incredibly incongruous to foist him off elsewhere without having spent more time on developing why exactly he puts Elincia aside. But that's somewhat outside the bounds of this discussion.

[shadowofchaos]

My personal problem is that fans of the game who see games and say they "love them"... but in reality only like it for the opportunity to ship relationships between two (or more) fictional characters.

Your Avatar x Olivia

Why thank you for calling me out on my hipocrisy when I play the "waifu lord" card for laughs.

If you haven't noticed, I plenty love Awakening for its mechanics and its difficulty and more than just a waifu simulator.

I've gotten every single support in the log, and have come up with ways to mess with the game more than other people. I've made videos messing around with the silly mechanics and RNG rolls.

You need to open your eyes if you really think I care that much about pairings... even that particular one.

Edited May 2, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

They're not necessarily a blinding necessity either.

That's why they're most often optional. Even Sothe and Micaiah's A support could be deleted.

Geoffrey's very limited screen time is themed entirely around Elincia. Considering how relatively little development he gets, it would be incredibly incongruous to foist him off elsewhere without having spent more time on developing why exactly he puts Elincia aside. But that's somewhat outside the bounds of this discussion.

Geoffrey's limited screen time is also a small problem I had with both RD and PoR. I dislike him, but I probably would have liked him more if we got to see more of him. Yeah, he got better supports in PoR than in RD, but they were hard to trigger because he comes very late. I've only managed to support him with Elincia, ironically. If Geoffrey got more screen time and more supports in RD, we probably could have seen a good explanation of why he lets go of Elincia.

Geoffrey isn't the only unfortunate victim of limited screen time in RD either. Tormod's group got hit with this big time, which sucked, as did Tauroneo. >.>

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

I honestly don't see how Geoffrey x Callil could even work in RD. She married Largo and adopted a child, and he is completely devote to serve his queen. How could that pairing even work without it looking extremely OOC for both? I just don't understand that.

Aran x Laura I agree should have gotten an ending. I was honestly surprised they can't end together, considering they don't interact with anyone besides each other and Micaiah.

[Anacybele]

Like I said, Largo didn't need to exist. He wasn't even recruited in PoR's main story. You got him through an info conversation and that's only if you recruited Callil. On top of that, Callil shows interest in Geoffrey in their support. Could've easily made that go further without Largo. Not to mention Largo barely shows up in RD and isn't playable anymore. He was the most unnecessary character throughout both games, imo.

And being devoted to the queen doesn't mean Geoffrey shouldn't be allowed to marry someone that isn't named Elincia. That's like saying Soren should marry Ike and we all know that can't happen at the end of the game.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

But the point is that Largo EXISTS and you can't ignore that fact. Do you really see Callil abandoning Largo and Amy just to be with Geoffrey? (Or anyone else for that matter?)

[Sunwoo]

Calil didn't need to exist either. She wasn't recruited in PoR's main story either. You got her in an info conversation. Who else is another character you could get in an info conversation? Oh yeah, Sothe. Isn't he the guy who's basically the co-lord of Radiant Dawn for the Daein chapters?

Even in PoR, the game's ending makes it pretty - damn - obvious that he and Calil have ~something~ going on between them. No matter who she supports, Calil and Largo, if alive at the end, always say that they're going to open up a pub/shop/I forgot the exact word they used together. Even if Calil was a little sweet on Geoffrey in their supports, how do you know it's not anything more than just a little flirting? Maybe Calil was just a little starry-eyed at seeing a handsome knight and taken aback by him at first, and the whole "he loves Elincia more" thing doesn't mean that she likes him more than Largo or she would've liked him more than Largo?

Ana, please, it is so painfully obvious that you're only trying to justify pairing Geoffrey with Calil so he doesn't have to be shipped with Elincia.

[General Banzai]

It's funny because I went through 7 years of FE fandom activity without seeing a single anything about shipping ever and then suddenly this year it's all the rage

[Anacybele]

Callil and Sothe still had more important roles in RD than in PoR. Largo did not. I'm not saying Callil should just abandon him and Amy for Geoffrey. I'm saying Largo never should've existed in the first place and that Callil developing a fast crush on Geoffrey could have led to a paired ending for the two in RD.

And so what if I want someone else to ship Geoffrey with? I don't want him to remain alone. It wouldn't be fair, especially since I already put Kieran with Marcia and Lucia with Renning in addition to Elincia with Ike. Geoffrey would be the only one in that group to be all by his lonesome (except for Bastian, but Bastian is a guy and Geoffrey is obviously not gay). And this is my least favorite character in the series I'm talking about here. I prefer Elincia with Ike, so what else can I say? I feel that Callil could've been his best alternative option. I would have even preferred that to giving him an OC, which is what I had to do in fanfiction.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Why would Lucia pair with Renning? That's an out-of-nowhere pairing if I've heard of one. It's not like Lucia needs a man anyway, as her ending clearly implies she wants to always stay by Elincia's side.

The point is that pairings should be discussed within the conditions the game gives you. If you're going to change the rules and completely eliminate other characters just so they don't interfere with your ships, I might as well bring the argument that Ike shouldn't have returned at all in FE10.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Why are you even so obsessed about this?

THE QUESTION OF THE CENTURY.

Anacybele, please answer this.

My OTP is Soren/The Daein Throne. I ship that shit so fucking hard.

Ive not seen anything in the way of real hate for the Tellius saga outside some of the characters. Micaiah wound up being poorly executed in the end, and Ike acted like the Spotlight Stealing Squad. Plus Sothe got promoted to Ser Assface. Theres a laundry list of plot issues.

But who gives a fuck? Three different POV structures and like a shit ton of guys to use. FE9 is fucking awesome and actually pretty riveting. It introducing the Partner Units mechanic was yes. (this is why Tanith is so broken...) The Growths Bands rocked as well. I loved that chapter where you have to actually strategy for story. (chapter 19 i believe. The one with Naesala) Things made sense in PoR. RD got weird but its ok cuz the game was so fun. Despite the neutering of support convos, we still got the bonuses. Plus more fun with Partner Units. 3-13 is one of the funnest chapters in FE History because you get to fight yer own guys for story reasons and thats awesome.

[Sunwoo]

Callil and Sothe still had more important roles in RD than in PoR. Largo did not. I'm not saying Callil should just abandon him and Amy for Geoffrey. I'm saying Largo never should've existed in the first place and that Callil developing a fast crush on Geoffrey could have led to a paired ending for the two in RD.

And so what if I want someone else to ship Geoffrey with? I don't want him to remain alone. It wouldn't be fair, especially since I already put Kieran with Marcia and Lucia with Renning in addition to Elincia with Ike. Geoffrey would be the only one in that group to be all by his lonesome (except for Bastian, but Bastian is a guy and Geoffrey is obviously not gay). And this is my least favorite character in the series I'm talking about here. I prefer Elincia with Ike, so what else can I say? I feel that Callil could've been his best alternative option. I would have even preferred that to giving him an OC, which is what I had to do in fanfiction.

But Largo already does exist. What are you going to do about it, write an angry letter to IS demanding he be retconned out of PoR or something? You're describing a hypothetical scenario where Largo doesn't exist, which is null because in this world we have PoR where Largo does exist.

Also, I'm not too concerned about who pairs with who in RD (and other FE games in extension), but I honestly don't understand why Geoffrey "needs" to be paired. You justified Rath's single ending in FE7 by saying that "not everyone who has paired endings needs to get paired endings" because you ship Hector/Lyn. So, I don't really see the problem in leaving Geoffrey single if he does not get with Elincia. Also, where's Bastian's ending? If Renning gets Lucia, then who does Bastian get? Why do you feel so "bad" about Geoffrey being "all by his lonesome" when you seem to have no issue leaving Bastian "all by his lonesome"?

[Nobody]

Callil and Sothe still had more important roles in RD than in PoR. Largo did not. I'm not saying Callil should just abandon him and Amy for Geoffrey. I'm saying Largo never should've existed in the first place and that Callil developing a fast crush on Geoffrey could have led to a paired ending for the two in RD.

And so what if I want someone else to ship Geoffrey with? I don't want him to remain alone. It wouldn't be fair, especially since I already put Kieran with Marcia and Lucia with Renning in addition to Elincia with Ike. Geoffrey would be the only one in that group to be all by his lonesome (except for Bastian, but Bastian is a guy and Geoffrey is obviously not gay). And this is my least favorite character in the series I'm talking about here. I prefer Elincia with Ike, so what else can I say? I feel that Callil could've been his best alternative option. I would have even preferred that to giving him an OC, which is what I had to do in fanfiction.

90% of the characters in fire emblem "don't need to exist"

Calil canonically has a husband. That husband is Largo.

Path of Radiance wouldn't change much if Calil, Mia, Zihark, Largo, Illyana, Brom, Nephenee, Tormod, Kieran, Muarin, Stephen, Astrid, Tanith, Makalov, Marcia, Jill, Devdan, Haar and Taorineo didn't exist. I fail to see how Largo is any different from any of them.

What you're trying to say is comparable to "Louise shouldn't exist, so I could ship Pent with someone else". It doesn't make sense. Largo and Calil being married is something the developers chose as part of the story, and it does have an impact on Radiant Dawn,

My OTP is Soren/The Daein Throne. I ship that shit so fucking hard.

I really wish this could happen =/

Edited May 2, 2014 by Nobody

[Maiden of Ghosts]

Callil and Sothe still had more important roles in RD than in PoR. Largo did not. I'm not saying Callil should just abandon him and Amy for Geoffrey. I'm saying Largo never should've existed in the first place and that Callil developing a fast crush on Geoffrey could have led to a paired ending for the two in RD.

And so what if I want someone else to ship Geoffrey with? I don't want him to remain alone. It wouldn't be fair, especially since I already put Kieran with Marcia and Lucia with Renning in addition to Elincia with Ike. Geoffrey would be the only one in that group to be all by his lonesome (except for Bastian, but Bastian is a guy and Geoffrey is obviously not gay). And this is my least favorite character in the series I'm talking about here. I prefer Elincia with Ike, so what else can I say? I feel that Callil could've been his best alternative option. I would have even preferred that to giving him an OC, which is what I had to do in fanfiction.

The problem with this is that.. Largo's existence had absolutely nothing to do with whether Calill and Geoffrey could get together. In their supports Calill DID start out as having a thing for Geoffrey, but when she realizes how obviously and ridiculously in love Geoffrey is with Elincia.. Calill decided to give up the "chase", so to say. Her decision to give up on him was based on how he is in love with another woman, and because of that, there almost certainly would never be anything between the two of them. Largo's existence was not a factor in it at all.

So regardless of whether or not Largo existed, I don't think there would ever be a chance at Calill and Geoffrey having a paired ending, because even through RD, Geoffrey is still very much in love with Elincia. So I'm pretty sure that Calill wouldn't have even tried.

[shadowofchaos]

My OTP is Soren/The Daein Throne. I ship that shit so fucking hard.

DAT ASS... will be on that throne.

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

In a calm manner, that's exactly what I mean with "rabid fans".

If a canon gets in the way, complain about it and/or write it out of existence in fanfiction.

Edited May 2, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Snowy_One]

It's funny because I went through 7 years of FE fandom activity without seeing a single anything about shipping ever and then suddenly this year it's all the rage

Huh? I was shipping Mia and Ike from the moment I came onto the boards. Admittedly maybe not to the point where someone who didn't search for it would notice, but I've been doing so ever since I first played it. Just didn't make a big fuss about it. I also distinctly remember bringing it up multiple times in topics like this before.

[Anacybele]

But what if Elincia loved a man that isn't Geoffrey (whether it's Ike or some other guy, it doesn't matter in this case)? What then? Geoffrey would be left really heartbroken, and I hate leaving someone like that, even someone I don't like. As for Bastian, I haven't yet figured anything out for him, but I'd like to eventually.

And Largo is different from those other characters because unlike them, he's not recruited during the story. He's recruited in a conversation. In fact, now that I think about it, Callil and Sothe might as well have not existed until RD as well.

As for Lucia remaining by Elincia's side, Renning does too, you know. His ending states that he helps his niece rule Crimea.

And why am I "so obsessed" with pairings? I'm not entirely sure, actually. I've always been a romance fan, that much is certain. I think it may have something to do with my own desires for love and the fact that I have not yet found it. I suppose I just really want to see others, be them real people or fictional characters, to succeed where I have failed. Even those I don't like. I just don't think any good person deserves to live life alone.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, you know what, at this point I don't even care about pairings. I really don't, but I don't understand your logic and reasoning at all, Ana.

But what if Elincia loved a man that isn't Geoffrey (whether it's Ike or some other guy, it doesn't matter in this case)? What then? Geoffrey would be left really heartbroken, and I hate leaving someone like that, even someone I don't like. As for Bastian, I haven't yet figured anything out for him, but I'd like to eventually.

As cold as this sounds, people can recover from heartbreak. I think Geoffrey is strong enough to move on if he doesn't end up with Elincia, and this thought process has a bit of an unfortunate implication. Could just anyone really "replace" Elincia so easily in Geoffrey's heart, considering how close they were? Is the only way he could ever get over heartbreak by getting together and settling with someone?

Not to mention this little quote I found in another thread:

People only say Rath for Lyn because she's his only option. But the thing is, no matter what you do with your pairings in FE7, someone who is capable of being married will end up single. There just aren't enough possible endings.

Aside from making the MASSIVELY untrue assumption that people only like Lyn/Rath because Rath ~must~ be paired with someone (so people can't just find it cuter than the rest of Lyn's other options?), you have no issues with leaving Rath unpaired because "there aren't enough possible endings". So if you're truly opposed to leaving characters "single and in heartbreak," even if you hate them, then what the fuck is this?

And Largo is different from those other characters because unlike them, he's not recruited during the story. He's recruited in a conversation. In fact, now that I think about it, Callil and Sothe might as well have not existed until RD as well.

But Largo DOES exist, and thinking about "what ifs" and "he shouldn't have existed so Calil could be a reasonable option for Geoffrey" means nothing.

I just don't think any good person deserves to live life alone.

I do hope you realize that a lot of these characters have friends and companions, and that's most certainly not "living life alone".

[Florete]

Lucia with Renning

The others I get, but...huh? Lucia and Elincia were raised as sisters and Renning is Elincia's uncle. See where this is going?

And Largo is different from those other characters because unlike them, he's not recruited during the story. He's recruited in a conversation. In fact, now that I think about it, Callil and Sothe might as well have not existed until RD as well.

This is a meaningless tangent. You can just as easily kill Ilyana and Zihark as you can not recruit Kieran and Stefan as you can skip the conversations for Sothe, Calill, and Largo. They all have about the same impact on the story and "exist" just as equally. Since when are base conversations not part of the story?

[Loki Laufeyson]

I really wish this could happen =/

Right? Think of what kind of awesome king Soren would be! Pragmatic and maybe a bit cold, but his people would never starve!

DAT ASS... will be on that throne.

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

In a calm manner, that's exactly what I mean with "rabid fans".

If a canon gets in the way, complain about it and/or write it out of existence in fanfiction.

The image of Soren's arse descending upon that throne. ToohotforSF

And why am I "so obsessed" with pairings? I'm not entirely sure, actually. I've always been a romance fan, that much is certain. I think it may have something to do with my own desires for love and the fact that I have not yet found it. I suppose I just really want to see others, be them real people or fictional characters, to succeed where I have failed. Even those I don't like. I just don't think any good person deserves to live life alone.

Fair enough. I just dont see the point in forcing opinions on things like pairings. Cuz its just not nice, you know? Write all the fanfiction you want, but when people are discussing this series, they dont focus on pairings that much.

[Anacybele]

As cold as this sounds, people can recover from heartbreak. I think Geoffrey is strong enough to move on if he doesn't end up with Elincia, and this thought process has a bit of an unfortunate implication. Could just anyone really "replace" Elincia so easily in Geoffrey's heart, considering how close they were? Is the only way he could ever get over heartbreak by getting together and settling with someone?

You're right, but Geoffrey is also someone I just don't want to leave single, regardless of my dislike of him. I can't explain it, really.

Aside from making the MASSIVELY untrue assumption that people only like Lyn/Rath because Rath ~must~ be paired with someone (so people can't just find it cuter than the rest of Lyn's other options?), you have no issues with leaving Rath unpaired because "there aren't enough possible endings". So if you're truly opposed to leaving characters "single and in heartbreak," even if you hate them, then what the fuck is this?

Okay, I can see you misunderstood what I was saying there. I was talking about pairings that were possible in the actual game. In fiction, I'd totally give Rath a wife, because Sue must exist. He obviously gets married whether his wife is Lyn or an unknown woman because Sue is his daughter.

I do hope you realize that a lot of these characters have friends and companions, and that's most certainly not "living life alone".

I meant not having someone to spend their lives with.

The others I get, but...huh? Lucia and Elincia were raised as sisters and Renning is Elincia's uncle. See where this is going?

...Crap, you have a point there. I often use this argument when saying Geoffrey x Elincia weirds me out (because they were raised as siblings as well) too. Well, back to the drawing board. >_<

This is a meaningless tangent. You can just as easily kill Ilyana and Zihark as you can not recruit Kieran and Stefan as you can skip the conversations for Sothe, Calill, and Largo. They all have about the same impact on the story and "exist" just as equally. Since when are base conversations not part of the story?

Stefan is kind of pointless too, I agree. But those others actually show up in the main story. You can go through all of PoR without even once seeing Largo since base conversations are optional.

Florina: I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone, just trying to explain why I have the opinion at all.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele