Training Filler - Game Over

[MRDRHAWK]

Agreed. Xehanort has hardly posted, and shouldn't be voted for a lack of explanation behind his vote when there are others that haven't at all.

Exactly. That said, I'm not advocating an inactive lynch today for varying reasons.

By "feeling good about Makaze," do you mean that you simply think he's playing well, or playing townie?

Um, did you not read my reads list at the end of my post? I'm reading Makaze as town. I feel like he's playing well for newb!town, so.

My play in prior games has been kind of shit! If this doesn't seem wholly consistent with my usual meta, it's because I have to change to improve. I've played all of three Day phases in the past few months, mate, all in very strange circumstances. I'm trying to see how players think so I have some more data to compare with when making reads, and I was poking you in particular because you were inactive and hadn't been called out to post yet. That's all.

Yeah, I figured it was something like that. Also please don't bring up P3 anymore pls. I mean, meta's not reliable, but... Well, you're contributing also.

And so far as the YX thing goes: let me direct you to this post, where I note that I'm not voting my first lynch target at this early stage, but the person whom I have pointed questions for.

So you're just prodvoting? Eh... this feels less good to me, but I'm not gonna poke at it too much since there's town intent behind it.

I'm not entirely agreeing with some of the conclusions you draw in the post, particularly your assumption that I know you and would tread lightly around you for... what reason? Still, I fail to see scum intent in a post so chock-full of content.

Is that really how that post sounded to you? Well, in any event, I'm just surprised you haven't been sent by SB to just read my old games (since there's quite a few) to get my meta, so that's why I noted that in my post. I'm not suggesting anything, honestly.

Not feeling good about Dudeaga's recent post. First off, we don't try and RLBW people - that's just an excuse to trade barbs that gets us nowhere. Secondly, you seem super-waffly and unsure of your reads - oh, wait, there are no reads. Who is scum to you right now? Ciraxis can't be the only person you have any feelings towards either way.

SF is ridiculous - it finally loaded for me.

But hi, ridiculously late Vashiane finally here and caught up.

Now that I read back, I'm gonna start off by doing this:

##Unvote

I see that Ciraxis has the majority of the vote, but I don't think I'll vote for anyone until I see something that warrants suspicion. *feels out of place*

Aside from myself (really busy, sorry, computer programming and school), I hope to see others like Vash post here more.

Hi guys. Any quick thoughts?

[Makaze]

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Today has been kind of uneventful...

@Pascal: Something has been bothering me... You said that "Nobody really makes any serious votes during RVS", but your post was the most serious up to that point. What makes you so sure with so little info? Basically, I think you risked attracting the unwanted attention you were talking about, and I'm not sure why.

[Makaze]

Vashaine is getting attention, but we have other inactives.

Vashaine, these go for you too.

@ZeeEmm & Dudeaga: We are out of RVS now, so it seems time to take things seriously.

What are your scum reads and why?

Dudeaga, your reasoning is weak and I would like to hear more. Your posts are too passive even past RVS, even ones including votes, and that makes me wary.

I am not convinced about Ciraxis because there is not enough content from others to convince me that he is not getting voted just because others aren't speaking up. I don't think we have a solid reason to lynch a potential town because other people are too quiet. Please ease my mind of these worries.

You may ask me questions in return if you feel I have not given enough, either.

@Junko: You have been far more aggressive than anyone I have mentioned yet, with little reason.

This feels really bad to me. For one it is RVS so it seems p ridiculous that you would need a valid reason when it is almost impossible to actually get any info. It feels as if you are jumping to conclusions way to quickly for my liking. Also Dude only only has three votes, I would hardly call that a wagon.

## unvote

## vote General Ciraxis

Makaze!!!!!! I can have a better name now!

Anyway on to actual content not seeing how terrador was looking for power roles. Makaze actually deciding to jump of a "wagon" bothers me because if he was town why would he be so cautious being on an rvs "wagon" in the first place? It may just be makaze was messing around really but eh it isn't giving me good feels.

This one seemed kind of funny:

Anyway still a bit wary about makaze. Even if he may not be as experienced with forum mafia I still feel as if it was weird play and should be noted. Especially when he says I don't want to be on a "wagon" but then votes ZM anyway which is essentially hopping off one and on to another basically.

General Ciraxis your thoughts on the game so far, do you still think ZM is leaning scum?

I was never on a wagon before I voted for ZeeEmm because I was the first to vote for Dudeaga in the game. Did you have a bad memory or were you trying to cast doubt on me?

You finally voted when challenged on it, but not for either of the people you were after before, but a completely new person.

Surprise, you also did exactly what you injustly accused me of doing: You jumped off of a wagon you started for no apparent reason in the same post.

xeno kind of just shot up the list now mak. Will keep and eye on you though. and since i forgot to place my vote

##unvote

## vote xenoheart

with this many people on the wagon starting to have doubts if General may be scum. Feels like way to many people just jumped on the wagon for my taste sheeping terras case. This vote by xeno especially gives me bad vibes because it looks like he just skimmed the thread and voted GC for no reason. An explanation is def needed here.

Also GP when did I ever sheep terra's case?

You seem quick to put others in the spot light and ended up pushing us out of RVS due to your actions. You are my biggest scum read so far because you have tried to push others to vote, 'forgot' to vote yourself and backed off of me at the first sign that someone else might be an easier target. I didn't want to judge you for trying to provoke people in your first few posts, but you continued to push and it was Ciraxis's reactions to your posts that led to the votes he has now. You have switched your stance too often for me to take you seriously.

What are you doing?

[WhiskeySickFive]

Well, a feeling is what I've got. And if I had to say, my lynch list (in order of scumminess) would be:

Ciraxis

Blyvern

ZeeEmm

My gut tells me this. Blyv and ZeeEmm for jumping on, and Ciraxis for his horrible reaction to the call-out.

Jumping on, to me, feels like a small scumtell because if we assume we're all noobs or inexperienced, I'd think an inexperienced mafia might see a chance to get rid of town.

Also, Poly feels like he's leading the conversation, which in EM is the sign of a good townie or better mafia...so who knows. That's a person of interest to me.

[Junk]

Vashaine is getting attention, but we have other inactives.

Vashaine, these go for you too.

@ZeeEmm & Dudeaga: We are out of RVS now, so it seems time to take things seriously.

What are your scum reads and why?

Dudeaga, your reasoning is weak and I would like to hear more. Your posts are too passive even past RVS, even ones including votes, and that makes me wary.

I am not convinced about Ciraxis because there is not enough content from others to convince me that he is not getting voted just because others aren't speaking up. I don't think we have a solid reason to lynch a potential town because other people are too quiet. Please ease my mind of these worries.

You may ask me questions in return if you feel I have not given enough, either.

@Junko: You have been far more aggressive than anyone I have mentioned yet, with little reason.

This one seemed kind of funny:

I was never on a wagon before I voted for ZeeEmm because I was the first to vote for Dudeaga in the game. Did you have a bad memory or were you trying to cast doubt on me?

this begs to differ. You started the wagon but what was the reason to get off it. I didn't want to wagon so I jump on someone else makes no sense as town because what reason would they have for jumping off an rvs wagon in the first place?

You finally voted when challenged on it, but not for either of the people you were after before, but a completely new person.

Surprise, you also did exactly what you injustly accused me of doing: You jumped off of a wagon you started for no apparent reason in the same post.

Except I had a reason for doing so...

You seem quick to put others in the spot light and ended up pushing us out of RVS due to your actions. You are my biggest scum read so far because you have tried to push others to vote, 'forgot' to vote yourself and backed off of me at the first sign that someone else might be an easier target. I didn't want to judge you for trying to provoke people in your first few posts, but you continued to push and it was Ciraxis's reactions to your posts that led to the votes he has now. You have switched your stance too often for me to take you seriously.

So you would have just rather let that scummy post go unnoticed? Also pretty sure if I hadn't commented someone else would have because that was the first serious vote in the game... I also don't remember trying to get other people voting?

What are you doing?

PEDIT: Not a fan of dude's post. He thinks they are scummy for jumping on an rvs wagon?...(this was the dude "wagon" right?)

[MRDRHAWK]

Also, Poly feels like he's leading the conversation, which in EM is the sign of a good townie or better mafia...so who knows. That's a person of interest to me.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this particular. Are you reading me as scum, or as town? I'm feeling quite a bit of waffling coming from this particular line, and it's kind of bugging me. While we're on that subject...

To be honest, all of your (minimal) content feels waffly and very non-committal, aside from your Ciraxis read that could well be sheeping others who've made cases on him, such as myself and Terralec, since even that 'read' seems a bit like you're unsure of it.

There's been enough time in the game; so please give a firm read on Ciraxis. None of this "if I have to vote someone, I'll vote X" stuff you've been pulling so far.

[Makaze]

Please don't edit in quotes. It makes quoting back tedious. Read the last few pages of the Info Dump if you need help breaking quotes up.

this begs to differ. You started the wagon but what was the reason to get off it. I didn't want to wagon so I jump on someone else makes no sense as town because what reason would they have for jumping off an rvs wagon in the first place?

Simply put, one vote does not a wagon make. I changed my vote one time, from Dudeaga (made when I was his only vote) to ZeeEmm (who had wagoned just before I voted her). It only counts as starting or joining a wagon if you are the second or later person to vote. I haven't unvoted ZeeEmm yet because I don't have any particular strong reads other than yours, but you could have just been playing badly so this is me, hunting.

So you're wrong on both accounts.

My reason for avoiding starting an RVS wagon on someone who has done nothing, not even wagon, is the same reason I have done everything else in this thread. I didn't want to be the subject of a lynch mob like the one you started on Ciraxis, which may be undeserved.

Except I had a reason for doing so...

It was extremely weak. Let's review:

mind elaborating on why you are voting him?

You ask for info.

And it appears I've been swordsaged by YoungXenahort. Jumping on a wagon with a dangerously large early amount of pressure on it? Even though I agree with that wagon [at least with the very minimal information we have], this is shady.

##Unvote

##Vote: YoungXenahort

Why drop a vote on Ciraxis with literally no stated reasoning? We're a bit past that, and frankly, jumping on an already-large wagon without contributing to it isn't exactly townie behavior.

Terrador does some picture painting with the one post as info.

xeno kind of just shot up the list now mak. Will keep and eye on you though. and since i forgot to place my vote

##unvote

## vote xenoheart

with this many people on the wagon starting to have doubts if General may be scum. Feels like way to many people just jumped on the wagon for my taste sheeping terras case. This vote by xeno especially gives me bad vibes because it looks like he just skimmed the thread and voted GC for no reason. An explanation is def needed here.

Also GP when did I ever sheep terra's case?

You do an about-face without an answer from YX, presumably because you were swayed by Terrador. You vote YX despite the only reason being 'needing an explanation', which is the reason you asked in the first place.

Terrador later rescinded some of their suspicion against YX because they considered the number of votes. You didn't seem to take that into account.

It's really hard to tell what you are trying to do.

So you would have just rather let that scummy post go unnoticed? Also pretty sure if I hadn't commented someone else would have because that was the first serious vote in the game... I also don't remember trying to get other people voting?

No, but I wouldn't suspect you as much if you had stayed on your suspicions instead of jumping around. You even jumped off of me really quickly. This part struck me as odd:

"xeno kind of just shot up the list now mak. Will keep and eye on you though. and since i forgot to place my vote"

Why did you say this? Odd to say the least given that it happened right after I prodded you about why hadn't voted me yet. You had more reason to vote me than YX and gained no info on them between questioning them and your vote.

In summary, you voted early and aggressively and called out even the lightest potential scum behavior. That can mean one of two things. A, you are actually hunting scum, or B, you are trying to create a wagon early. I thought you were doing A for a while, but when you kept jumping it looked more suspicious.

Why shouldn't I see all of this as scummy behavior?

[Grace]

Votals: Manix is Lazy Edition

General Ciraxis (5): Pascal, Blyvern, YoungXehanort, Polydeuces, Dudeaga

YoungXehanort (2): Terrador, Do Not Edit Posts Guy

ZeeEmm (2): General Ciraxis, Makaze

Not Voting (3): ZeeEmm, Green Poet, Vashiane

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have 40 hours and 18 minutes left in the phase.

(if these are wrong, yell at me. also i have had a number of iso requests but i currently do not have the time)

Edited May 21, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Kaoz]

ISOs:

- Do Not Edit Posts Guy (Mentor: Refa)

- ZeeEmm (Mentor: Sangyul)

- Green Poet (Mentor: Prims)

- Blyvern (Mentor: Euklyd Baldrick)

- Pascal (Mentor: Bluedoom)

- Makaze (Mentor: Shinori)

- Dudeaga (Mentor: eclipse)

- YoungXehanort (Mentor: Eurykins)

- General Ciraxis (Mentor: Kay)

- Vashiane (Mentor: Vhaltz)

- Terrador (Mentor: SB)

- Polydeuces (Mentor: BBM)

Edited May 21, 2014 by Kaoz

[Baldrick]

*Daily Post*

Dammit Kaoz

*/Daily Post*

[ZemZem]

Hi guys. Any quick thoughts?

@ZeeEmm & Dudeaga: We are out of RVS now, so it seems time to take things seriously.

What are your scum reads and why?

I'm aware, Makaze.

As for scum reads, currently nothing. I need more time to analyze posts, and it'd help if this game went a little faster.

Well, a feeling is what I've got. And if I had to say, my lynch list (in order of scumminess) would be:

Ciraxis

Blyvern

ZeeEmm

My gut tells me this. Blyv and ZeeEmm for jumping on, and Ciraxis for his horrible reaction to the call-out.

Jumping on, to me, feels like a small scumtell because if we assume we're all noobs or inexperienced, I'd think an inexperienced mafia might see a chance to get rid of town.

Also, Poly feels like he's leading the conversation, which in EM is the sign of a good townie or better mafia...so who knows. That's a person of interest to me.

Jumping on the vote against you on the first page?

[WhiskeySickFive]

This post can be summed up as an excuse for not posting, followed by a vote you admitted outright "doesn't mean all that much." To me it looks like you're just posting this in order to appear as if you're contributing, while not actually contributing anything useful.

A "feeling" sure isn't convincing justification of a vote.

Well, its what we got, buddy. And that reaction to the votes on you was literally the closest to scum I can see.

MAN, this has been a shitty day. I gotta get back out to the yard, but I'm taking a break to drop this post off!

@Polydeuces: My play in prior games has been kind of shit! If this doesn't seem wholly consistent with my usual meta, it's because I have to change to improve. I've played all of three Day phases in the past few months, mate, all in very strange circumstances. I'm trying to see how players think so I have some more data to compare with when making reads, and I was poking you in particular because you were inactive and hadn't been called out to post yet. That's all.

And so far as the YX thing goes: let me direct you to this post, where I note that I'm not voting my first lynch target at this early stage, but the person whom I have pointed questions for.

I'm not entirely agreeing with some of the conclusions you draw in the post, particularly your assumption that I know you and would tread lightly around you for... what reason? Still, I fail to see scum intent in a post so chock-full of content.

@Dudeaga: "I have hunches of my own, but no /real/ concrete evidence, so I'll just wait on that."

That is literally the only thing you have to contribute--your hunches and impressions. Nothing is concrete right now; everything is just subjective reads on behaviors that seem scummy. Please tell us about your hunches--even if they're unsubstantiated, that's far better than nothing.

The whole post is a load of waffle. I'm not comfortable with it.

@Vashiane: I asked you a question here, which you can answer if you want, but seeing as we're out of RVS and there's actual game content to discuss: who are the three scummiest-looking players to you right now, and why?

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this particular. Are you reading me as scum, or as town? I'm feeling quite a bit of waffling coming from this particular line, and it's kind of bugging me. While we're on that subject...

To be honest, all of your (minimal) content feels waffly and very non-committal, aside from your Ciraxis read that could well be sheeping others who've made cases on him, such as myself and Terralec, since even that 'read' seems a bit like you're unsure of it.

There's been enough time in the game; so please give a firm read on Ciraxis. None of this "if I have to vote someone, I'll vote X" stuff you've been pulling so far.

Well, again, it can flip both ways, from my experience. Just noting. On my vote, yeah, Ciraxis is the hardest leaning scum for me, so I voted him.

I'm aware, Makaze.

As for scum reads, currently nothing. I need more time to analyze posts, and it'd help if this game went a little faster.

Jumping on the vote against you on the first page?

Yep. For reasons I explained. Not so sure how that will hold up after today and tonight, so we'll see how the dice roll.

[ZemZem]

Yep. For reasons I explained. Not so sure how that will hold up after today and tonight, so we'll see how the dice roll.

...I only voted for you since I had no idea what was going on and thought, 'hey, why the fuck not', as I've explained before.

[Terrador]

Well, a feeling is what I've got. And if I had to say, my lynch list (in order of scumminess) would be:

Ciraxis

Blyvern

ZeeEmm

My gut tells me this. Blyv and ZeeEmm for jumping on, and Ciraxis for his horrible reaction to the call-out.

Jumping on, to me, feels like a small scumtell because if we assume we're all noobs or inexperienced, I'd think an inexperienced mafia might see a chance to get rid of town.

Also, Poly feels like he's leading the conversation, which in EM is the sign of a good townie or better mafia...so who knows. That's a person of interest to me.

I think you know that nobody with a brainstem expects an RVS wagon to translate directly into a lynch. This feels very OMGUS, and therefore not genuine, at least re: Blyvern and ZM being on your "top scumreads" list.

^^^Terrador snipped the parts of this quote he wasn't responding to^^^

My reason for avoiding starting an RVS wagon on someone who has done nothing, not even wagon, is the same reason I have done everything else in this thread. I didn't want to be the subject of a lynch mob like the one you started on Ciraxis, which may be undeserved.

You seem to be awful worried about getting lynched, even though everything you've done that isn't obviously self-defense reads town intent to me. You do read Town to me, though, so I'll tell you this: making a point of self-preservation is only going to look suspicious. A real townie fears no bullet or noose; their focus is almost entirely on analyzing other players.

^^^Snipped by Terrador^^^

^^^Edits for clarity in Bold^^^

Well, its what we got, buddy. And that reaction to the votes on you [Ciraxis] was literally the closest to scum I can see.

What scummy reaction? I literally can't find anything scummy Ciraxis has posted after I started putting pressure on him. His waffly damned-or-damned criticism of me was scummy, no doubt, but there's nothing recent to speak of.

You've posted only in RVS and as response to others' prodding and your cases don't seem genuine or well-founded. This smells like active-lurking scum to me. What do you have to say for yourself?

##Unvote

##Vote: Dudeaga

---

And now, a couple of reminders to our lurky friends who catch my eye.

@Frosty/Pascal: You gave us one good content post at the start of the Day, but we've heard nothing from you since. Why is that?

@Vashiane: I really get the feeling that you're super-confused, and that's okay. But if you're not posting and contributing, you're deadweight to Town during the day. Have an easy question to start you off with, one that has a strong (if not absolute) correlation with scum: Who feels like a liar to you?

@YoungXenahort: After everyone else's twopence and the obvious lack of care you've given this game, I can buy [read: see as plausible] that you thought random-voting or even pressure-wagoning was still appropriate. Why the lack of content, though? IRL issues, forgetting the game, confused, what?

[speaking of which: can I ##Request Prod?]

[Makaze]

You seem to be awful worried about getting lynched, even though everything you've done that isn't obviously self-defense reads town intent to me. You do read Town to me, though, so I'll tell you this: making a point of self-preservation is only going to look suspicious. A real townie fears no bullet or noose; their focus is almost entirely on analyzing other players.

[speaking of which: can I ##Request Prod?]

Thanks. I'm a little paranoid about getting lynched before I can do anything. I guess it shows.

What is Requesting Prod?

[blyegg]

Well, a feeling is what I've got. And if I had to say, my lynch list (in order of scumminess) would be:

Ciraxis

Blyvern

ZeeEmm

My gut tells me this. Blyv and ZeeEmm for jumping on, and Ciraxis for his horrible reaction to the call-out.

Jumping on, to me, feels like a small scumtell because if we assume we're all noobs or inexperienced, I'd think an inexperienced mafia might see a chance to get rid of town.

Also, Poly feels like he's leading the conversation, which in EM is the sign of a good townie or better mafia...so who knows. That's a person of interest to me.

Pretty sure I stated that I had an actual reason;

Agreeing with Pascal; going back on what you said makes you seem suspicious in my eyes. Especially since it was right after someone pointed out the contradiction.

##Unvote Dudeaga

##Vote General Ciraxis

I'm pretty sure it was still RVS (could be wrong, never played mafia before), and I'm confused why jumping on the wagon (what does this mean? bandwagon?) makes me seem like scum?

##Unvote

##Vote: Dudeaga

I feel like he just ignored my reasoning (which we had little of at that point)

Seems like mafia to me.

Also, yeah, what is ##Request Prod?

[Junk]

means an active player will be warned to be active more before getting subbed

[FrostyFireMage]

@Frosty/Pascal: You gave us one good content post at the start of the Day, but we've heard nothing from you since. Why is that?

Mainly because of my belief that GC is the most likely scum out of all of us.

A prod is a reminder to all inactive players to basically get their asses in gear and start posting.

And a bandwagon is a large group of players voting a single player because of basically the same reason.

I might be relatively new at Mafia but I know at least a few of the terms.

[Terrador]

As far as requesting the prod: I was publicly noting that I think this fella might need to get subbed out of the game for inactivity, and asking that Manix contact him and let him know he's needed. That's all; don't read too much into it, ladies and gents.

[Makaze]

We only have twenty four ~ hours before a random lynch.

@Ciraxis: I'd like to hear your reads. You've mostly been on the defensive up to now and I realized we only have defensive content for you as a result. Other have asked, but you didn't really answer.

Who looks scummy?

[Grace]

Votals: Manix actually becomes proactive

General Ciraxis (4): Pascal, YoungXehanort, Polydeuces, Dudeaga

Dudeaga (2): Terrador, Blyvern

ZeeEmm (2): General Ciraxis, Makaze

YoungXehanort (1): Do Not Edit Posts Guy

Not Voting (3): ZeeEmm, Green Poet, Vashiane

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have 22 hours and 10 minutes left in the phase.

[Terrador]

We only have twenty four ~ hours before a random lynch.

@Ciraxis: I'd like to hear your reads. You've mostly been on the defensive up to now and I realized we only have defensive content for you as a result. Other have asked, but you didn't really answer.

Who looks scummy?

Hrm, it is getting down to the line. Seeing how slow this game is, I think it's time to start consolidating, hm?

@Manix: Can we get vote totals? That'd be real swell.

@Everyone: Who would you like to see lynched? I, personally, think Dudeaga is the scummiest person here; all of his content seems real shady to me, compared to Crizix [or other folks who've seen pressure], who either have very minimal content to go off of or have town-looking posts alongside them. Unless someone has a really convincing case, I think these two are the only people we can potentially consolidate on today.

Note that I emphasize consolidation because we face random lynch if we don't have 7 players voting a specific person by deadline, as Makaze very helpfully pointed out. A call to all townies: either stand behind one of these lynches and give your reason why, or present a very convincing case for an alternative target. Thank you.

Note: This in no way means that other discussion toDay should come to a standstill, but this is the urgent matter, so it therefore has primacy. Seeing as we can only expect another one, maybe two SF visits per player before deadline and all...

[blyegg]

At first I thought Ciraxis was scum because of his going back after a contradiction was pointed out seems odd to me; I would at least try and explain it/fix any misunderstandings before giving up.

However Dudeaga ignoring my reasoning for voting him also seems like that.

So I'm a bit on the fence on who to vote for.

Because we are close to facing a random lynch, I'll go for the person who is second most likely to be mafia (imo) and

##Unvote

##Vote Ciraxis

I don't want a random lynch. ;c

[Makaze]

I agree with the suspicion against Dudeaga. They offered weak reasons for their votes and have been all around shady throughout. I got town reads on several of Ciraxis's posts by comparison and am not as comfortable with that wagon as I would like to be.

As much as I dislike Junko's play, it could easily be terrible town play. If anything, Junko's play looks far too reckless. I can't read his intent no matter how silly he may be. If Dudeaga or Ceraxis doesn't pan out, there are always other days with more content.

If Ciraxis's scum reads don't look scummy, I'll vote Dudeaga before the day is through.

@Ciraxis: I see you viewing the thread. If you don't reply, I will have to vote you. You have no reason not to offer your reads.

[Person123]

It's a long post, just give me a minute.