Training Filler - Game Over

[j00]

Not playing or mentor or IO or whatever

What are OMGUS, (softclaiming) PR and waffling?

OMGUS stands for "OMG u suck" and is voting someone just because they voted you, i.e a retaliation vote.

Softclaiming is hinting at your claim without outright saying it, PR stands for power roles.

Waffling is being indecicive about your reads, stuff like "X is scummy because he does that, but he might be town because he's doing something else too". It's considered bad because it gives you a lot of leeway about your reads since you don't commit to them, and they rarely help in deciding if people are scummy or not.

[Makaze]

What is Post Restriction?

[j00]

Stuff like your PM saying "You may only post in bold red font or you'll get modkilled", basically a restriction you have to follow in your posts or you'll be punished in some way. Usually punishment is the mod won't enable your night action or something.

[Person123]

Dudeaga, If you're really the role you claim yourself to be, you should be posting whatever you can in order to validate your claim. You continue to make assertions without bothering to provide any sort of justification. Your only post after the claim certainly didn't help town at all.

Hory shet, thanks for claiming for me. I was about to, because I can't really get on tomorrow. Sorry bout that.

Anyway, I'm dead because mafia kills me tonight. I think one of either Poly or Makaze is scum. Both are as close to softclaiming PR as possible, although I just may be applying EM standards to Forum mafia.

So long space cowboys.

PS: I think we're grasping at straws with all of this bandwagoning voting n' countervoting and whatnot. Although I did omgus (my bad), along with my own hypocritical logic, so, y'know, take my opinions with a grain of salt. Ciraxis did have a horribly scummy reaction, and I don't think we really have much of any sort of lead other than Ciraxis, so my vote stays.

PSS: Read Green Poet's post, and no, I didn't crumb. I imagine softclaiming on d1, especially with mafia so hyper-vigilant after the whole bw'ing mess isn't the most, uh, prudent thing to do. Townreading Green Poet, however slightly.

PSSS: Read Poly's post, and he does make a good point.

Alright, for real, I'm gonna get off now.

It's important to break down this post for what it is. Textbook example of sheeping bolded in orange text, more assertions without any justification bolded in blue text, additional wafflie bolded in green, but what sticks out the most to me is bolded in red. What makes you say mafia was being hyper-vigilant? The only players who know for sure who is what faction are the mafia themselves. You stated yourself that you don't have any sort of lead other than me. Sounds like you know something we don't. You need to explain yourself, preferably with some legitimate justification.

[Makaze]

Dude already said they "can't" post today. If we vote, it will have to be based on what we already have, so above all, we need to focus on whether or not we get a counterclaim. As much as we may not not like, not getting a counterclaim more or less confirms his role regardless of his actual playstyle.

[Person123]

Hopefully every one of us participants will check in with the thread before the deadline. It's safe to assume the active players will do so, it's the lurkier players I'm concerned about. It's possible one of them is the doctor, but they can't counterclaim if they don't even bother dropping by.

[Makaze]

I say give it another two hours tops. If no counter claim is made, then we need to focus on other people. We won't have time if we wait to right before the deadline.

[Makaze]

If you read this, post. I mean it. If you are the Doctor, claim it. We need to get this done as soon as possible.

[Terrador]

Alright, guys, I've got a little utility for y'all! These vote totals are UNOFFICIAL AND SUBJECT TO ERROR. If you're going to edit this spreadsheet, please ISO the person whose vote you believe has changed to ensure accuracy.

VOTE STATUS

In other news, Makaze, I agree with what you've said about ZM. I'd definitely prefer to see him lynched over Ciraxis, but I still think Dudeaga is shadier. I doubt we have the time to consolidate a ZM lynch today (because only a handful of you chumps post!), but tomorrow, he'll definitely be atop my list of people to talk to.

I've got a few things to attend to, but I'll give Dudeaga and ZM a solid once-over once I'm done with that. Expect it inside an hour and a half.

@ Green Poet; Vashiane; Junko: Any particular reason y'all aren't voting yet? Make a case, and take a stand.

[Green Poet]

I'm still not sold on a Dudeaga lynch. If certain PRs flip tomorrow and Dudeaga is still alive, it might be more feasible that doctor is simply Dudeaga's assigned safe fakeclaim, hence a lack of CC.

@ Green Poet; Vashiane; Junko: Any particular reason y'all aren't voting yet? Make a case, and take a stand.

I would vote either Xehanort or Vashiane, but doing so is pointless as far as achieving popular lynches go. I'm assuming they've already been prodded, and they are more than eligible for policy vigging now, imo.

The only other wagons are Ciraxis and Dudeaga, the former of which I think is likely town, and the latter of which I do not want to hammer now.

I'll wait to see if consolidation against Ciraxis is viable. I believe we have a little less than four hours till phase end and I should be around for most of that time.

[MRDRHAWK]

It's hard for me to make a major post on my phone.

I'm still not wanting to lynch Dudeaga, since I still think it'd be prudent to keep a potential doc alive. I'm more willing to lynch Ciraxis for reasons stated earlier (if I have time and can get back on my laptop I can better explain myself later, but I doubt I will before D2 rolls around).

Vashi and YX really need to post, as do ZM and Blyvern to a certain degree.

[Person123]

ZeeEmm being scum definitely seems plausible. Considering how scummy Dudeaga's play is, ZeeEmm's votes on Dudeaga earlier in the game reeks strongly of bussing. The first few votes on Dudeaga came from Blyvern, Makaze, and ZeeEmm. Makaze comes off strongly as town, due to his activity and valid assertions, whereas Blyvern has similar posting/voting habits to ZeeEmm. It's entirely possible the little mini-wagon on Dudeaga during RVS was a co-ordinated bussing effort by Blyvern, Dudeaga, and ZeeEmm. The possibility is probably worth looking into. If there's not enough time to do so today, then consider it for future days.

[Terrador]

It appears that Dudeaga is on. I want to note this for posterity, as if he doesn't post, that would be... frankly, more than a little shady, all things considered, what with him being considered for lynch and claiming he wouldn't be able to show up today.

[Green Poet]

I think one of either Poly or Makaze is scum. Both are as close to softclaiming PR as possible, although I just may be applying EM standards to Forum mafia.

I'm not recognizing crumbs from Poly nor Makaze. "Close to softclaiming" isn't at all precise in describing what Dudeaga thinks they're doing. Have they actually softclaimed, or do you get the feeling they're going to? And with neither of them under pressure to claim, why would doing so be scummy at all?

PS: I think we're grasping at straws with all of this bandwagoning voting n' countervoting and whatnot. Although I did omgus (my bad), along with my own hypocritical logic, so, y'know, take my opinions with a grain of salt.

But why are you not scum? This doesn't read like a defense.

It's entirely possible the little mini-wagon on Dudeaga during RVS was a co-ordinated bussing effort by Blyvern, Dudeaga, and ZeeEmm.

I doubt it. The whole point of bussing is to gain towncred, and that can only gained if the wagon is built on an actual case, which RVS votes lack. Even now, I don't feel as though Blyvern and ZM have contributed strong cases enough cases against Dudeaga that I would consider them town if Dudeaga flips scum.

I think Dudeaga has been playing more like scum than Ciraxis. Going to reread the thread and see if I really would still be willing to consolidate on Ciraxis, because I'm not so certain anymore.

[WhiskeySickFive]

I have a little bit of time before I have to go off again, so I figured I might as well reply.

Dudeaga, If you're really the role you claim yourself to be, you should be posting whatever you can in order to validate your claim. You continue to make assertions without bothering to provide any sort of justification. Your only post after the claim certainly didn't help town at all.

It's important to break down this post for what it is. Textbook example of sheeping bolded in orange text, more assertions without any justification bolded in blue text, additional wafflie bolded in green, but what sticks out the most to me is bolded in red. What makes you say mafia was being hyper-vigilant? The only players who know for sure who is what faction are the mafia themselves. You stated yourself that you don't have any sort of lead other than me. Sounds like you know something we don't. You need to explain yourself, preferably with some legitimate justification.

Well, I'mma be frank. I'm a noob to this whole forum mafia thing, so I'm applying my Epicmafia expectations- which is why I point out that my logic is based on EM experience. Sorry for not being the most confident in my reads, but I don't think we have much concrete evidence until tomorrow, with night actions and whatnot.

For the red text: Why wouldn't mafia be hyper-vigilant? 3 wagons in one phase w/out anything really concrete, anybody could be next. And if I theoretically was mafia, what would I know?

For the orange text: Well, can't argue with that. I did say he made a good point, and it did pop up while I was posting my response, so I addressed it.

For the blue text: Let's not dick around here- it's mostly been Poly and Maka making the good points and whatnot. Which, as I said, is (imo) proof that they are maf goon or town PR. Villagers and mafia PR tend not to draw /that/ much attention, relative to everyone else, I'd assume.

Anyway, I got to leave for about a while, so I don't know if I'll be back to post before night phase starts.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem like Maka is trying to ask a mafia to Counter-Claim me? Although it is true that some here aren't active, it seems that he /wants/ someone to Counter-Claim me. Especially considering he made a separate post about it...in bold text... I don't know about you, but Makaze was looking like nervous mafia at that time, considering the speed of his posts, esp. considering that we still had 10?-ish hours left.

[Terrador]

I have a little bit of time before I have to go off again, so I figured I might as well reply.

Well, I'mma be frank. I'm a noob to this whole forum mafia thing, so I'm applying my Epicmafia expectations- which is why I point out that my logic is based on EM experience. Sorry for not being the most confident in my reads, but I don't think we have much concrete evidence until tomorrow, with night actions and whatnot.

For the red text: Why wouldn't mafia be hyper-vigilant? 3 wagons in one phase w/out anything really concrete, anybody could be next. And if I theoretically was mafia, what would I know?

For the orange text: Well, can't argue with that. I did say he made a good point, and it did pop up while I was posting my response, so I addressed it.

For the blue text: Let's not dick around here- it's mostly been Poly and Maka making the good points and whatnot. Which, as I said, is (imo) proof that they are maf goon or town PR. Villagers and mafia PR tend not to draw /that/ much attention, relative to everyone else, I'd assume.

Anyway, I got to leave for about a while, so I don't know if I'll be back to post before night phase starts.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem like Maka is trying to ask a mafia to Counter-Claim me? Although it is true that some here aren't active, it seems that he /wants/ someone to Counter-Claim me. Especially considering he made a separate post about it...in bold text... I don't know about you, but Makaze was looking like nervous mafia at that time, considering the speed of his posts, esp. considering that we still had 10?-ish hours left.

>attention-grabbing villager = person of role interest

No. This is ten thousand kinds of wrong. PRs want to stay quieter than normal townies, because their death is more devastating to Town. Scum don't want to make good points--they want to make posts that look like good points, as one of many possible stratagems to avoid lynch and investigative attention. This is wrong to the point of being malicious, and since you've been playing on Epicmafia, you'd have no history of seeing the swingiest roles generally* being handed over to players who at very least know the time of day. To boot, Poly hasn't even posted much; how he grabs your attention as a "Town leader" over GP or myself is quite beyond me, though maybe it's just that you agree with him more. TL;DR the first chunk doesn't hold water.

Also, Makaze asking scum to counter-claim you? Are you joking? As Town, he would obviously want a Town doctor to step forward and cause a scum lynch. As scum--he can just ask his teammates to do it with their outside communication, and even then it's a pointless gambit that will result in one of his teammates getting lynched by the end of D2! There's literally no reason that anybody would be trying to get a mafia counterclaim on you, much less publicly. This doesn't stand up to even the most cursory thought. Maybe Makaze seems nervous, and he's very obviously advocating for any genuine Doctor, if present, to counter-claim you, but the case you've made is, once again, artificial, half-assed, and contributing nothing to town.

*In my personal experience

[Makaze]

I have a little bit of time before I have to go off again, so I figured I might as well reply.

Well, I'mma be frank. I'm a noob to this whole forum mafia thing, so I'm applying my Epicmafia expectations- which is why I point out that my logic is based on EM experience. Sorry for not being the most confident in my reads, but I don't think we have much concrete evidence until tomorrow, with night actions and whatnot.

For the red text: Why wouldn't mafia be hyper-vigilant? 3 wagons in one phase w/out anything really concrete, anybody could be next. And if I theoretically was mafia, what would I know?

For the orange text: Well, can't argue with that. I did say he made a good point, and it did pop up while I was posting my response, so I addressed it.

For the blue text: Let's not dick around here- it's mostly been Poly and Maka making the good points and whatnot. Which, as I said, is (imo) proof that they are maf goon or town PR. Villagers and mafia PR tend not to draw /that/ much attention, relative to everyone else, I'd assume.

Anyway, I got to leave for about a while, so I don't know if I'll be back to post before night phase starts.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem like Maka is trying to ask a mafia to Counter-Claim me? Although it is true that some here aren't active, it seems that he /wants/ someone to Counter-Claim me. Especially considering he made a separate post about it...in bold text... I don't know about you, but Makaze was looking like nervous mafia at that time, considering the speed of his posts, esp. considering that we still had 10?-ish hours left.

In agreement with Terrador on both points they addressed and one other.

About the red text: You say that 'the mafia' are super vigilant, but haven't cited specific posts where you think mafia were being vigilant. Guilty until proven innocent is not a pro-town attitude.

It's been over two hours and no one has come forward. I think that if no one has counterclaimed by now, they will not counter claim at all. Those of you who haven't been on, I'm disappointed. Big plays like this should not be decided because you are too lazy or busy to play. Don't join the game if you can't post every day.

I've already given my say. What do the rest of you think we should do?

[Junk]

Dude has been playing as scummy as fuck but that uncced doc claim makes me really hesitant to lynch him because doc is pretty important. I guess I would consolidate on GC. Everyone else your thoughts?

I am kind of scumreading blyvern because he has literally done nothing all game but just sheep peoples cases the whole game.

Hoping xeno and vash start posting more.

## vote general ciraxis

[Makaze]

I am kind of scumreading blyvern because he has literally done nothing all game but just sheep peoples cases the whole game.

On top of you just wanting to lynch someone regardless of actual reads, why haven't you mentioned ZeeEmm? Their posts are even more sheepy than Blyvern's. Not to defend Blyvern, but they have a few town-leaning posts.

How do you read ZeeEmm?

[Junk]

On top of you just wanting to lynch someone regardless of actual reads, why haven't you mentioned ZeeEmm? Their posts are even more sheepy than Blyvern's. Not to defend Blyvern, but they have a few town-leaning posts.

How do you read ZeeEmm?

mind telling me what these town leaning posts are?

I think ZeeEmm has only made one actual vote that while I admit was sheepy was just one post, Blyvern has basically done this the whole game. How is ZM being more sheepy then blyvern may I ask?

[Person123]

If I don't fail at math, and I have my timezones right, we have about 65 minutes left before the phase ends.

To sum up what I perceive to be Town's optimum play, Lynch Dudeaga. Significant evidence he's mafia, little evidence he's doctor.

Even considering the remarkably slim possibility he's Doctor, he's likely to die tonight regardless. His playstyle this game does town no favors either.

Naturally I don't support lynching me. Even if time runs out and the lynch target is chosen randomly, I would rather risk a possible mis-lynch than a guaranteed one.

[Person123]

I do indeed fail at math. It's 74 minutes.

[Sunwoo]

MENTOR POST INCOMING

ZM is male, Makaze.

I'm also not going to play the game for him, so you don't get anything else from me.

[Makaze]

Doing some activity checks.

##Vote: General Ciraxis

I anticipate some shady shenanigans.

You. You were on at HOUR:38, four minutes before I starting writing this. Post.

Making a note.

Can't tell how long ZeeEmm has been gone. They're on invisible. Saw some invisibles view the thread earlier, but could have been anyone.

mind telling me what these town leaning posts are?

I think ZeeEmm has only made one actual vote that while I admit was sheepy was just one post, Blyvern has basically done this the whole game. How is ZM being more sheepy then blyvern may I ask?

You answered your own question. Blyvern has been putting themselves out there and offered at least a little contribution to town by voting and stating reads. They may have been agreeing with others, but more content does not necessarily equal a worse tell. This post especially seems like something town would do. While both ZeeEmm's behavior and Blyvern's fall under the same reasoning (sheeping), Blyvern's behavior hasn't changed much while ZeeEmm's has. It's her lack of consistency that sets off an alarm.

There was a reason I said I wasn't defending him.

[Makaze]

MENTOR POST INCOMING

ZM is male, Makaze.

I'm also not going to play the game for him, so you don't get anything else from me.

My mistake. I'll try to remember.