Training Filler - Game Over

[Vhaltz]

Yo

I've been pretty busy with presentations and stuff these days and assumed Vash would contact me if she had any trouble since I told her I was available for any troubles at the beginning of the game, but it appears that she was just like "wtf is this" when reading mafia cases and didn't know what to do at all. I probably should've actively contacted her earlier, welp =_D

Anyway I don't have much to say about the game myself atm because I haven't really been keeping up with it much, if push comes to shove I'll read up and post my skim-impressions of the game, but if everything goes alright Vash should be able to post something soon.

[Eurykins]

Gah. Double-posting due to ninja's.

The posturing I meant was the pretending not to be aware of your own mentee's actions.

His ISO doesn't work in the OP because someone added a space in his username.

Install my ISO generator script to avoid these problems.

A question, then. If you were scum, how would you have posted differently than you have so far?

Oooh. That's what you meant. Gotcha.

*facepalms* That'd explain quite a bit (and thanks for the link).

If I were scum, I would've probably sought to ask Manix if I could actually post for my mentee, honestly (to counteract his poor gameplay/post). Because I know from experience that inactive/lurking scum are probably the first ones caught and otherwise killed. You can't achieve the semblance of being supposed townie if you do nothing but sit back and lurk. In addition, I would've also ignored a lot of D1 content/interactions/cases/etc and just coasted on D2 content in terms of "reads" on people, and I feel that I would've also attempted to paint some people (namely yourself [Makaze]) in a less townie light in order to garner some sort of doubt towards you and/or others from the rest of the players (since GC is nearly cleared, my next goal would be to create as much doubt as possible in lieu/favor of more mislynches). [And if I were scum and you were town, you'd probably find more issues with my case(s)/points than you do currently, as my goal would be to twist around the facts in favor of my own goals/wincon, not to scum-hunt in favor of town.]

--- OhmahgawdsmoarNinjaposts. ---

@Terrador: Makes sense.

Will be AFk for a short bit- need to get some foods and take some meds.

[Makaze]

Interesting. Wouldn't you want your mentee to look as unscummy as possible no matter what? As Terrador pointed out, why wouldn't you want to post for your mentee as town?

You revealed one important piece of meta here. You specified that you would have intervened if your role were different. It's not that your mentee didn't talk to you. You didn't intervene because you didn't think it was necessary.

Thank you for pointing out that crumb, Terrador. I didn't catch it before.

@Ciraxis: Do you have any idea what Poly might have meant by that?

[Eurykins]

Interesting. Wouldn't you want your mentee to look as unscummy as possible no matter what? As Terrador pointed out, why wouldn't you want to post for your mentee as town?

You revealed one important piece of meta here. You specified that you would have intervened if your role were different. It's not that your mentee didn't talk to you. You didn't intervene because you didn't think it was necessary.

Thank you for pointing out that crumb, Terrador. I didn't catch it before.

@Ciraxis: Do you have any idea what Poly might have meant by that?

As town, you play for town to win. As far as I'm concerned, you have 8 other teammates, with 3 opponents (starting on D1), and it's a newbie game. As town, you naturally have numbers on your side, and unless I feel the need or I'm requested to post for said mentee, I see no reason to intervene (As we saw from Dudeaga, even townies can play bad and come off as scummy. Looking good as a townie- even in my own gameplay, really isn't a concern for me, because townies shouldn't generally care much about their image. They live to scum hunt, and trying to save face/look good in front of others is more of a scum priority, not town. Hence the difference of what I would/wouldn't do as a mentor depending on where my mentee was aligned.).

That is why, as town, I felt little want/need to interfere until he made it clear that he needed a sub (and thus volunteered myself to fill said slot). And even as I'm filling his slot, i honestly couldn't care less in what he's posted/done/not done since he's been in this game (in terms of justifying his gameplay in front of the rest of you guys). As far as I'm concerned now, what I post here and now (content from ME) is what I expect to see in cases directed at me, not things based on what my mentee did/didn't do (and so, in cases to come, if the only reason why people are finding me suspicious = due to YX's gameplay [or lackthereof], I'll know that they're either grasping REALLY hard in order to lynch this slot, and/or probably are scum for it (since they couldn't discredit my cases legitimately and thus must resort to taking stabs at the subbed out player in order to justify aiming a lynch in my direction)).

[Makaze]

Alright. I believe you.

Thank you for answering my questions.

I see dead people lurking. What are your thoughts?

[Eurykins]

No problem, and I'm actually impressed with the amount of pressuring/questioning you've done as a whole so far this game. (That, and you have a decent mentor as well, imo.) Good gameplay, imo.

[Terrador]

We are four hours and thirty minutes from deadline. If you see this thread, please consolidate onto one of the realistic lynches, or make a very good case (we're talking airtight, here) for another. Randlynches do not favor Town.

To track how the lynches are going, refer to this spreadsheet. I'll be updating all day long, and you can edit too if you see a vote. Please keep updates style-consistent so no additional information can be conveyed in a format where "posts" can be removed.

[Kaoz]

Votals

UFO (4) - Makaze, Terrador, DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY, Eurykins

DO NOT EDIT POSTS GUY (2) - Pascal, General Ciraxis

Blyvern (1) - Polydeuces

Terrador (1) - Blyvern

General Ciraxis (0) - Pascal

Not Voting (2) - UFO, Vashiane

[Makaze]

Can we please get some consolidation?

[Baldrick]

And... I don't even want my target lynched? What are you smoking? I was only so ardent towards the end of D1 because we had absolutely minimal time and it was about to randlynch. As Eury pointed out, directed lynch > random lynch. And now that the end of the Day is coming up, guess what? I'm going to start pushing harder for this lynch, because we have to start consolidating.

Why are you asking for more time instead of asking for consolidation?

I was actively trying to ally with town. I made a huge point of this postgame, when I had no reason to lie, so if you're gonna cite that as a scumgame for me, take it with a grain of salt.

Mafia pretend to ally with town, as well. Unless you were a non-hostile SK, it's a similar situation.

Nice try, Baldrick, but no. None of your points on me hold water, and the fact that you're playing for your mentee is more than a little bit suspect. There is absolutely zero urgency in posting a case on me.

He is legitimately gone, and fuck you for implying it's a gambit. I hate having to post when I haven't been following the game, I forced myself to do something to help the game state, and you're saying I'm suspect? Why don't you vote me then, huh? Italics: Why not? It's my mentee's biggest scumread, and I don't really know about the other wagons and I really don't have time to read.

That said, you're right in that it isn't going to happen, so whatever. Don't know if I can change the vote, but

##unvote:

##vote: UFO

[Terrador]

Why are you asking for more time instead of asking for consolidation?

It's not in stead of. If you were paying the slightest bit of attention, you'd see I called for consolidation a few minutes back.

Mafia pretend to ally with town, as well. Unless you were a non-hostile SK, it's a similar situation.

For the love of--!! I've talked about it after the game, when I have absolutely zero reason to lie, and mentioned that I was allying with town. I told the hosts of that game from the beginning that I was trying to play pro-town, because I thought I could swing the game to Town's favor. You're painting this as something it's not.

He is legitimately gone, and fuck you for implying it's a gambit. I hate having to post when I haven't been following the game, I forced myself to do something to help the game state, and you're saying I'm suspect? Why don't you vote me then, huh? Italics: Why not? It's my mentee's biggest scumread, and I don't really know about the other wagons and I really don't have time to read.

That didn't help the game state at all! Eclipse very nearly got in trouble just for voting for her player. You're making posts FOR your player.

Just because you're a mentor doesn't mean you can hydra. Stop posting until Manix gives you an okay. As someone who appreciates these games having something resembling integrity, this is genuinely pissing me off.

[Eurykins]

@Baldrick and Terrador: I'm gonna ask that BOTH of you please calm down.

1. We need to consolidate/agree on a lynch- we can all agree that it's something that needs to get done (especially with the phase winding down).

2. Baldrick- your mentee being offline/gone is one thing. If you know he'll be inactive (whether he told you so or not), then sure, let us know, so we know he's not just avoiding posting/coasting along through the game. However, I feel that your last two posts kinda bled over the line of Mentor/Mentee posting capabilities (you seemed to utilize his in-game information + your own thoughts/cases within your post), which I personally feel is borderline posting a case that other players could potentially use/sheep (and in that sense, you're basically playing the game to some extent). Then there's the 24-hour posting limit thing to also be concerned with, but you seemed to also disregard that (which is also worrying me wrt how Manix will see this situation).

3. You should not feel any real obligation to FORCE yourself to aid in the state of this game. As was stated/said before, if town chooses to be lazy, and not post their thoughts, cases, etc. accordingly, they deserve to lose. Simple as that. If they don't put forth the effort to try and WIN, then they clearly don't deserve it. This game in itself came with a HUGE handicap, in the form of having MENTORS- basically an OC with a more experienced player who could aid them in understanding the game and playing through it. I know I certainly didn't have a mentor in my first few games, and I did pretty bad at first. But it's not your JOB to BABY them in this game and otherwise excuse their bad gameplay/tactics by covering them. Quite frankly, it's probably the opposite: If you notice something (like inactivity, lurking, etc.) that you know is bad gameplay, call them out on it in your OC with them and tell them how they can improve. We're here to help, not to enable bad habits/gameplay.

Everything we say/do in this thread comes with consequences, both good and bad. Dudeaga got himself killed as the DOC due to poor gameplay on his part, even when Eclipse momentarily stepped in to drop a Doc claim when it was L-1 or L-2 (so in that sense, her timing/post makes sense, given that he was offline/busy at the time and they were close to hammering him). I just can't help but feel that this scenario/timing isn't exactly the same (though I do see the voting as being partially okay, if it's the only way to consolidate the hammer vote/lynch to avoid a random one).

[Tbh, like I said before- I commented on YX via PMs about his inactive gameplay and that it sucked for town 'cause he wasn't participating at all. But I wasn't going to interfere past prompting the players as a whole around the end of D1 to consolidate the hammer/lynch, because if the townies don't care, neither should we. Respect and effort are only given/returned when an equal amount is given in turn. If a mentee asks for help, sure we can do it. But if they sit on their asses, twiddle their thumbs, and choose not to try, oh well. The more mentors post for the mentees, the more it becomes the Mentor's games/participation/cases/etc., and less of theirs. Which kinda defeats the purpose of this Mafia as a whole.]

- And just as a reminder to fellow townies: There's 7 Townies remaining, and 3 scum left alive. If a random lynch happens, we're still have over double the chances of hitting a mislynch than a lynch on scum. If you're coasting as an Anonymous User or otherwise avoiding posting in this thread, I suggest you post soon with your thoughts, consolidation vote(s), etc. unless you're fine with the risks that come with random lynches.

[Sunwoo]

MENTOR POST INCOMING

ZM's sort of dropped off the face of this game, I don't know what to do guys. All I'm going to say is that we're vanilla town, and that's really all from me.

Also, my reaction when I saw Eury's ginormous wall post: "I've officially lost interest in this game."

[Junk]

ughh not feeling so good about pascal. He starts off with a decent vote on Ciraxis but from then on basically all content stops there. His next three posts have to do with mafia terms or grammar errors and while that is quite nice of pascal that isn't content. this implies that he still thinks GC is the scummiest but gives no other info what so ever on his thoughts on everyone else. There was a ton of stuff circulating about dudeaga but he fails to address anything at all as if all.

this never actually explains why he thought they were contributing.

this just more tunneling

This After like a whole day and a fourth he instantly just changes his top scumread to town without actually bothering to explain why. Feels even worse after terra called him out on it. Also never bother to explains why zm seems like a new player over his head. He votes me off of ONE post. Although I disagree that post was sheepy it seems ridiculous that you are assuming I am scum because I sheeped one case. That isn't telling of alignment whatsoever. Also in this post you state you had no reads but...

this you state you think blyvern is town despite having no reads whatsoever the post before.

You still haven't answered my question on why GC was overzealous town and I have seen you online.

Not sure if we can actually make a lynch happen with this guy. I should have looked him over earlier.

[Terrador]

Vhaltz! You really need to get Vashiane in here, if you can. We're what, an hour and a half from deadline? Or two and a half. We need to consolidate on this lynch.

[Junk]

vhaltz mind sending a pm to vashiane since i just saw her in the FE4 thread.

[Grace]

Phase Pause, no posting.

[Grace]

I hate having to resolve things the moment I wake up.

Keep it civil. I don't like where any of this is heading at all. A public notice that it is up to my discretion as to whether a mentor may post multiple times in a 24 hour period, and that you don't know whether I have given it or not. Do not make any assumptions. If there is something out of line, tell me via PM. I will resolve it myself. If anyone mentions this issue again, I will warn them publically. Don't push it.

Phase unpaused. I'm also giving you an extension for 24 hours.

Edit: Baldrick's vote did not count toward votals, since he is a mentor.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Person123]

There's a lot of new stuff to go over, so I'll quickly state some small concerns before reading through the new material and forming a more comprehensive post.

In regards to Junko's concerns against Pascal, it's Pascal's motivations at the end of day one that make him seem less like scum. What motivation would scum!Pascal have for tunneling me over Dudeaga? If he was mafia, he would know we were both town, which makes the fact that he didn't consolidate bizarre. What would scum have to lose by not consolidating?

More importantly, since ZeeEmm is my second highest scumread after Junko, and the fact he still doesn't seem to care much for helping progress the game, I'd be find with consolidating on him over Junko today if need be.

[Person123]

In regards to Junko's concerns against Pascal, it's Pascal's motivations at the end of day one that make him seem less like scum. What motivation would scum!Pascal have for tunneling me over Dudeaga? If he was mafia, he would know we were both town, which makes the fact that he didn't consolidate bizarre. What would scum have to *gain* by not consolidating?

[Makaze]

Ciraxis, please answer my question.

[Person123]

Terrador, I need you to ease my concerns. I don't understand how you are reading Junko as null. Throughout the game, you've made entire cases against players that are playing how Junko is playing, but he's null to you? How can you explain this? It's the same thing with Vashiane, you're particularly lenient towards her lurking, but you pursue other players that display lurking habits. You said earlier that you thought Vashiane was confused since she was a first time player, but according to your actions the same sympathy doesn't apply to the other first time players. I really don't want to suspect you of being scum, but I cannot ignore these concerns. As scum, you'd have every motive of playing the way you are. That's not something I can say about the other players. It's still too early to seriously consider you as scum, but if Junko and Vashiane flips scum while ZeeEmm flips town, then I'd consider you my top scum-read.

I said in my previous post I don't think Pascal is scum, since his actions toward the end of day 1 would make no sense if he was. There's just no scum motive behind his latter day 1 posts. With that said, It's still important for him to justify his complete 180 about suspecting me.

It's Blyvern's claim that gives him a town pass from me. Since Xehanort was subbed out, the possibility that he's the mason seems to vanish, since Xehanort's replacement made no such claim. In fact, the biggest thing that clears Blyvern is, once again, a lack of scum motive on making that claim.

About your question to me Makaze, I can't really say I understand completely why Polydueces would stop suspecting me. I'd really like him to go into more detail.

I still need to go through everyone else's ISO, and see if their actions match up with scum intent, which is something I'd recommend everyone else do. I feel doing so will tell us exactly what we need to know.

[FrostyFireMage]

One question, why does ciraxis all of a sudden seem to change from scum to town? You called him overzealous town but why? You tunneled the fuck out of him on D1 and voted him again on D2 stating that your opinions haven't changed but the second terra calls you out on voting ciraxis you instantly decide to townread him and vote me without having any other reads at all? I ask that you state other scumreads even if it is based off gut.

Reviewing an ISO can often change one's opinion of a player, you know. I got lazy and thought GC's prior post was a definite scum tell. But his recent contributions have rectified my opinion of him.

Evidently there's some context surrounding Terrador about having a tendency to be active scum, so that's something worth recognizing.

I'm still not feeling the UFO lynch. Junko's been spending a lot of time analyzing me (which is fruitless since I'm town, BTW) which feels defensive. Nobody's standing out to me as much ATM so my vote stays.

[Makaze]

Pascal... We need consolidation. You are neither switching your vote nor pushing for a lynch on Junko. You are in fact advocating a random lynch. That is a scum tell.

Please explain your logic.

[FrostyFireMage]

Pascal... We need consolidation. You are neither switching your vote nor pushing for a lynch on Junko. You are in fact advocating a random lynch. That is a scum tell.

Please explain your logic.

You've been on Junko's case for a while, yet I'm the one advocating a random lynch?

I've been on Junko's case for most of the game. If I can get someone to agree, all the better.

Not changing my vote before ZeeEmm posts some real content, though.

You were supportive of my vote before, but now you think it's a scum tell? Going by this post you seem to recognize that my vote isn't "random".