Would you say that Robin should be categorized as a lord?(storywise)

[AMCC4728]

So a friend of mine and I got in an argument over whether Robin should be considered a member of the lord archetype along with chrom. His main argument was that Robin has auto-game over on death and a semi-unique class. I think he shouldn't be because of his non-forced deployment in all but one chapter. I am very curious about this matter and would like to see the opinions here.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Obese Sonic

[Tables]

I think she is, although there's some argument as she kinda just barely scapes a few criteria for being a Lord. And since there's no real standard definition of what constitutes a 'Lord' it's even harder to say (I made a thread about this a while back, and discussion was pretty mixed). She fits basically everything a standard lord needs: Game Over if she dies anywhere during the entire game, commands an army at some point during the game (Streetpass), important to the game's plot, has a unique(ish) class. The main arguments against I can see are that she isn't forced deployment in Endgame (although she still appears as an NPC to do plot important things either way) and that outside of Streetpass (i.e. in the main game) she's never really in command of an army. Overall the Lord aspects of her outweigh the non-Lord ones, in my opinion.

Edit: Here's the thread: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46287

Edited May 29, 2014 by Tables

[Logience]

I just don't understand why Lords HAVE to be red/blue-haired, sword-exclusive units, neither for the fanbase nor the developers.

[Sifer]

A lord is someone who has royal blood in my opinion. Since we don't know Robin's lineage he is not a lord story wise. Mechanics wise, if he dies it is a game over. And he is an important character to the plot So I consider him a lord that way.

[Elieson]

A lord is someone who has royal blood in my opinion. Since we don't know Robin's lineage he is not a lord story wise. Mechanics wise, if he dies it is a game over. And he is an important character to the plot So I consider him a lord that way.

We do know Robin's lineage though. (S)he's the child of the late "King" Validar, who's also some type of religious figurehead under Grima. Robin posesses the blood of Grima, so it's sort of a holy descendant thing.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

well the game ends when they die, so yes

[Elieson]

well the game ends when they die, so yes

Doesn't the game end if Merlinus dies, in FE7:Ch13x?

It all makes sense now. Merlinus was the lord

[The Geek]

In the sense of them being a main character? Yes. But really, the Lord of the game is the character who gets the special class named "Lord" (with the exception of games where no such class exists, which I think is restricted to Gaiden and Radiant Dawn).

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Doesn't the game end if Merlinus dies, in FE7:Ch13x?

It all makes sense now. Merlinus was the lord

you brony goofball, the game's over because the chapter objective is to protect him, which if the player fails to do, means they failed the objective.

[Sunwoo]

S/he's important enough to the story to give me a game over if s/he dies, is the son/daughter of the Plegian-king-after-a-certain-point-in-game Validar, and the tactician class functions as a less restrictive lord class. (Not including DLC because those are just MUs anyway.) I'd say Robin's a lord.

EDIT: As for non-forced deployment except in one chapter, Lyn's only forced deployed in a few chapters in FE7 after her own mode. Same with Hector and Eliwood in each other's modes except only certain chapters.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Sangyul

[Vitezen]

No, lords aren't just defined by needing to survive the game. There are plenty of characters that have noble or royal blood, and they aren't lords either. If that were the case, Lissa, Emmeryn, Ricken, and Maribelle should all be lords too. You're a lord if your character screen says "lord."

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

No, lords aren't just defined by needing to survive the game. There are plenty of characters that have noble or royal blood, and they aren't lords either. If that were the case, Lissa, Emmeryn, Ricken, and Maribelle should all be lords too. You're a lord if your character screen says "lord."

so Micaiah and Ike in FE10 aren't lords?

i know what you mean but some smart aleck is gonna post something like that just to be an asshole.

[Loki Laufeyson]

If it seizes, its a lord. Except if your name is Geoffrey. However, seizing isnt a thing in Awakening so...ehhh it gets muddy.

Storywise, nah i dont really think of Avatar as a lord. Hes more like Tactician in FE7 but wayyy more involved and Mary Sue. Of course, i think Virion should be a lord. #whatdoiknow

[Tables]

No, lords aren't just defined by needing to survive the game. There are plenty of characters that have noble or royal blood, and they aren't lords either. If that were the case, Lissa, Emmeryn, Ricken, and Maribelle should all be lords too. You're a lord if your character screen says "lord."

By this definition, Lucina is a Lord and Micaiah (among others) isn't a lord, neither of which are exactly normal beliefs (I've found a few people stating the latter at least...). Oh, and Chrom stops being a Lord the moment he reclasses under this definition.

[RandomX2]

I'm leaning to no. I feel like lord characters have to have chapters in which they feel like the central character. Micaiah is clearly a lord-type for Act I and Ike for III, so it feels like you're bringing in 2 separate lords in IV. Robin feels more like a super-powered assist character throughout the game.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I'm leaning to no. I feel like lord characters have to have chapters in which they feel like the central character. Micaiah is clearly a lord-type for Act I and Ike for III, so it feels like you're bringing in 2 separate lords in IV. Robin feels more like a super-powered assist character throughout the game.

except for the last arc where it is about them

[Logience]

Blue hair, noble birth, has to have seize power, and game over if they die? Well then I guess Lucia and Geoffrey ARE lords, after all.

But seriously, what's your argument for why MU ISN'T a lord, with all the character focus and plot importance they're shoveled with?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Logience

[Czar_Yoshi]

As I see it, the main argument against is that Avatar isn't force-deployed for the final chapter.

[-Cynthia-]

I'd say yes, dead=game over for all chapters they're in is probably a good metric I think (trying to think of counterexamples). That would make Lucina not a Lord then I believe.

Edited June 7, 2014 by -Cynthia-

[PacoHeavyFire]

Think people is confused toward.what.makes a Lord. Roy isn't blue haire por example, and Ike doesn't have royal blood. I think Lords in FE are main characters in ever game, who hold some sense of leadership and share a common goal which might be peace, etc, and most likely command an army. I think the avatar is just a very key part to the plot, it.serves as a customizable, semi relatable.character for.the player and that's pretty much it for me.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That definition encompasses pretty much every major FE villain ever though. Arvis has a goal and a goon squad and is central to FE4's plot, I guess he's a Lord. His goal is much better than Chrom/Avatar's at that.

[PacoHeavyFire]

Maybe there will be a FE game that centers around Arvis, and he'll be considered as a Lord, yes. And that game will be fucking awesome

[BANRYU]

Depends on how you look at it. If you use a game like FE7 or something as an example, then yeah, (s)he can kinda be seen that way in terms of importance to the plot. IMO, since the avatar character is such a self-insert, (s)he takes on more of a quasi-lord role due to status as Tactician of the army with SOME authority, but being technically subservient to the game's main lord, Chrom. In FE7, Eliwood and Hector and to a lesser extent Lyn all kind of have an equal level of authority, and seem to sort of regard one another as equals in terms of chain of command (though that might just be my interpretation). I see FE13's tactician as being an amalgamation of the Lord role and Tactician role in terms of role in the plot and control over the other characters.

By my own definition (that being a character who is basically a/the main character of the story), I'd consider both protags of FE2 and all 3 protags of FE7 to be lords. Micaiah is a Lord-archetype while Elincia isn't. I don't know that much about FE12, but based on what I've heard I'd say its Tactician isn't a Lord-type character, if I'm correct about him/her not really being significant to the plot beyond giving Marth a shoulder to cry on or whatever.

Edited June 8, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

Maybe there will be a FE game that centers around Arvis, and he'll be considered as a Lord, yes. And that game will be fucking awesome

I'd actually really like to see an FE4/5 remake told from the perspective of a handful of different supporting characters throughout the main game. Other promising candidates would include Fin, Travant, Sety and Ishtar.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi