Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 also yeah scum's fakeclaims 100% sucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 also manix is like the kinumi of mafia. Impossible to outpost.this is what i do when i have the time still sure i have over a quarter of the posts in the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 also yeah scum's fakeclaims 100% suckedI was super proud of the 1-shot global roleblocker as a way of "hey I bet we can delay this lynch" and then marth's role happened. I should've gotten him mislynched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I felt like if you were town you would've actually tried getting a lynch off me at the end of D1 if you thought I was that scummy and I 100% expected you to get on FFM's case D2 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 also re double doc: i thought we established in toonami that it was a bad idea generally any role that can target multiple players is Not A Good Idea (massblock is probably the only exception) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 maybe if double doc was a x shot, hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 even limited multitarget roles are generally strong, because they have more of a chance to have an effect on the game so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 question: did scum have given fakeclaims, aside from the godfather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I pulled mine out of my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 from what i hear i don't think scum had given fakes. in a flavor game 120% sure i mentioned in that thing i wrote on making setups is "scum need fakeclaims in flavor games" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 They had name fakes, but not role fakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 you guys might be mad about the double doc, but i saw a doc that could target 11 people once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 on that note, i made a slight adjustment to my thing about making setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) 5) Be especially careful around including roles that depend on other roles in the game. Now, obviously some mafia roles depend on having a certain town role in the game (unless you're going for red herrings), like godfather/framer means there's a cop, ninja means there's a tracker/watcher, and so forth, however the main problem is including a role that can basically clear its own existence based on a mafia flip and from another roleclaim, which logically progresses to clear the second role as well. edit: this wasn't changed, i just emptyquoted it Edited June 10, 2014 by Curly Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladescape Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Apologies about the absence guys. >< But apparently game was townsided so it didn't need me anyways.. so ... yay? I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Prims was basically the only reason why Refa/me weren't lynched Day One. Seriously could we be any more unlucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Graveyard Mafia General Chat Neighbors Chat Mafia Manipulator Chat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 this game was pretty townsided but as promised: get rekt scum tbh I don't even think that Refa/FFM might have died D2 if it wasn't for Prims being so intent on the bus. But when you know there's a SK, that's the danger of bussing your teammates. GP's lynchproof claim was obvtown because having an ITP lynchproof on top of mafia being potentially able to block two lynches would have been dumb as fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Me not getting a night action and only losing the Hated was better balance-wise, but you could have just said like "your role changes when X dies". As it is my role PM literally lied to me by saying I had a night action that was locked when I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaltz Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 tbh I don't even think that Refa/FFM might have died D2 if it wasn't for Prims being so intent on the bus. But when you know there's a SK, that's the danger of bussing your teammates. Prims spoiled the scumteam for me before I even began to read the thread and these were my thoughts pretty much. I don't think it was a very good idea to bus both buddies with the SK still alive because the cred boost is just going to make the ITP target you. I was ??? on why Prims did it instead of trying to get the SK lynched first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) now that i'm actually reading more in depth on the postgame notes the game felt a bit... hashed together. it just feels like a bunch of roles were made and slapped another in an LOC setting. like sure, there were a bunch of interactions... but there were too many ways to force clears by role. having multiple opposing/counter roles makes the game incredibly swingy because town can grab clears on getting scum lynches. that realistically should not be happening on all scum lynches in a given game. #thoughts Edited June 10, 2014 by Curly Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 In development, it never occured to me that: A Mayor claim would be auto-town A Hated claim would be auto-town One of the OC roles would be auto-designated as town, despite being intentionally built to look scummy All of the seeker roles would be auto-town The Item claim would be auto town simply because the other was associated with the other Item Claim that claimed having a hit BPV The BPV would be auto-scum The other OC role would be auto-scum, by virtue of being "better" than a different role Seriously, the amount of spec that occurred in this game was something that I couldn't predict, because i dunno, I don't think that way. I don't think that town and mafia couldn't possibly have similar roles aligned with them. One player gets OC Interception and extra messages, the other claimed having a 24hr open OC room practically. Please tell me why town couldn't have been designed to have both? I'll bite on the others, as in retrospect, thinking that town might be suspicious of various don't-lynch-me claims was a bit closed minded, and the Doc was far too strong. I thought the breaking power from Toonami was the doubleITPs and the Question Asker, not the Multidoc with built in Cooldown. The mafia play was...something else. After night 1, Refa was pretty much demotivated, and FFM was already looking bad. Prims' idea to bus the beans out of FFM was respectable, but came at its cost, with the growing hunch of an SK that I'm pretty sure they suspected existing. His play was pretty good overall, despite also being demotivated by D2, with all the claims and whatnot. I gave mafia the ability to acquire fucktons of info, but I didn't think that the various in-game claims were all going to be /that/ obvitown. The last time BBM was Lynchproof claiming, he sure suffered for it. If Item roles look suspiciously SK-ish, why wasn't Marth suspected for it as well as eclipse? Eury causes roles to fail, she could've fit into an anti-town tier just the same. Shinori was the only town person who really paid for having a claim, and that's because the SK didn't want to deal with it later on. Town MVP: Manix, for coordinating the destruction of everything that wasn't town. HM to BBM, who simply wasn't around as much to fuck with everything. Scum MVP: Prims, for putting in a ton of effort, all game, despite having the odds stacked against him. HM to Refa, who made the best of his backfired' OC role. Things I never want to see again: eclipse's petition for a self-modkill to end the game. A Lynch Bodyguard role assigned to town. It came across to me as strikingly Mason/Cult-esque, but it really was never intended to be anything powerful for town. A game broken entirely on rolespec quite like this. Elie games like Shining Force 2 Mafia were broken because of the results brought in by roles, not by the roleclaims themselves. If Elie's particularly prone to making Role Madness-y games, then it should be know that I have the potential to make games that give mafia towny-looking roles (see FE6 Mafia and the Mafia Dayvig & Safeguard). If I'm crazy enough to include this many roles, I'm crazy enough to put three of the same thing on the scumteam, for all you know. Mafia-aligned Refa. Poor guy deserves a break. FFTA2M get broken like this. I'm intentionally designing the game to be anti-rolespec, at a level that makes even Manix impressed. Town Player Analysis SB - Overall decent play. Well placed crumbs, and did more hunting without rolespec than with, from what I could gather. Didn't really use the OC that much, but he didn't need to. Bluedoom - Solid play, and good targets. Not much to say here, since he subbed in and just overall hunted. Should've made him scum. Polydeuces - Hid in the back, which was intentional, considering his claims and crumbs. Good play for a doc, but he was still kind of obvious. Scum picked out the crumbs though, and he's lucky he didn't get NK'd. Be careful with your RoleCrumbing man. Eurykins - Where were you? Oh yea. Green Poet - Spent the most time freaking out over the game. Her Lynchproof claim was a relief to have, but she was still nervous. Playing as Lynchproof, how'd it make you feel knowing that even if you looked super scummy, that you couldn't be lynched? Da Bear (bearclaw13) - Used as a tool for collecting claims, but other than his well-placed DayVig shot, didn't do a whole lot. He barely even explained why his eclipse scumread was a scumread. Kinda out-of-it player overall. Curly Brace (Manix) - Broke my game. What else can be said? BBM - Same as Manix, only a bit less. Terrador - Ragequit because he was under fire (and apparently IRL issues). Tell me these things in your RolePM, so I can properly adhere to subbing processes. I thought you were intentionally throwing a fit to get attention off of you. bladescape - Uhh...good first game? Euklyd - Spent more time doing Rolespec than anything else. Look less at that, and more at the person behind the claim Shinori - IMO had solid reads, bar the Euk read D1. I'll do Non-town Player analysis later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think that you're missing why those claims were treated as they were, Elie. Mayor claim: I didn't consider the claim itself to be that townie (although I agree that scum Mayor, especially a subtle on, in a game with a bunch of lynchproofs and a SUPER HATED is dumb) but I thought SB was more townie on meta than Eclipse, who looked very obviously demotivated on D3. Hated claim: There has never actually been a hated fake given to scum (maybe it should be done from now on although I think people will expect it now). I'm not really sure why people considered me super auto-town but I don't think my play was scummy either. Manix's role: the truth is that town roles that are intentionally built to look scummy are generally town; see Miller claims. Also Manix himself is generally incredibly obvtown when he's town. Marth: was confirmed town on D3 because there was only one scum left and he'd been redirected to himself via Eury's claim, so he couldn't be scum. Seeker claims: they weren't really treated as auto-town; at least not on account of being seeker roles. Euklyd got lynched, Bearclaw was treated town because he dayvigged scum (also because Tracker in game w/ ninja), I was treated town because of the Hated thing, and GP was treated town for the Lynchproof thing though fwiw I most likely would have lynched her after Eclipse and Eury anyways just to test it. Refa's claim: again I at least didn't consider that Refa and Manix had conflicting roles because Refa's was only for 24 hours and also limited (as he said) but like Eclipse on D3, just looked incredibly demotivated on D2 and in the context of him having been scum so many times in a row it was kind of obvious why. BPV: wasn't auto scum but let's be serious, ITPs often have BPVs and with all the other stuff against Eclipse, it was another nail in the coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 A Mayor claim would be auto-towni had some doubts about it initially. however, the fact that it was a non-standard mayor on top of scum having weak fakes was the reason why it was likely town The Item claim would be auto town simply because the other was associated with the other Item Claim that claimed having a hit BPVthat was the byproduct of the scum masshook, which made it a two-pronged fork The BPV would be auto-scumlike i said D3, i didn't give a toss about the claim. The other OC role would be auto-scum, by virtue of being "better" than a different rolethat was due to the fact that it read as a direct counter to my role in full intent. i fiddled with the idea that refa could have been town on claim, but it just didn't feel right that i had a role that was comparatively weaker in every sense. Please tell me why town couldn't have been designed to have both?see above. as claimed, it made my role obsolete. generally when that happens, it's basically akin to a cc when you think about it. a similar example would be having follower and rolecop claims. follower is very similar to rolecop, so it's unlikely that both would exist in a game. generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 DARROS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.