Doomsday Clock Mafia - Town/ITP Win

[Shinori]

I confirmed but didn't know this had started. WHOOPS.

HI GAIS.

##Vote: BBM

[Grace]

skimmed thread don't have time to make proper post

back later after exam

[scorri]

Mmmkay, home from work and actually able to pay attention to the thread now. I was skimming occasionally at work, but never able to actually post. Reaction test seems legit, my major reason for not liking reaction tests does not apply here (people do it but then do nothing with the reactions they get) so I'm currently town reading Refa and also Marth some.

Things that have stuck out to me:

I don't like the way that kirsche asked other people to comment on his and BBM's arguing. Not like... the intent of getting people to comment, just something about it felt forced/off to me. I also think that kirsche hasn't been representing what BBM's done in the best of light? For now I'm content keeping my vote here, I think that BBM's been acting townish at least and don't think that kirsche has any real reason to being harping on him like he is.

Uhhhh other than that, it's a bunch of null reads right now, I really need to read the thread again.

[Zkirsche]

and you still didn't give your own read; I was talking about his previous posts. I know kirsche said something about it just now.

Because I still wanted to hear from you before I spoke on the matter.

##Unvote

What you have there is a very satisfactory response and set of actions.

People like FFM/Shinori should really contribute to scumhunting, a good place to start is analysis of my BBm discussion. Bonus points if you comment on the FFM cases, the Polydeuce case, the Eurykins case or scorri's case on me. To the general populace: if you nullread any of the people I just mentioned then you clearly disagree with the cases on them so you can at least state why/where they are flawed.

##Vote: FFM

Upping the pressure as that post isn't satisfactory.

[Grace]

done with exam

not particularly feeling like mafia rn.

anyway. I still feel that BBM's tone is off. Marf's reaction is okay, if refa is town. Saying that, refa is probably town anyway so.

FFM is null bc explaining reasons for trusting the claim is not scummy in of itself. It's more scummy to just blindly follow.

scorri's post feels unimpressive. It kind of feels like it's trying to lightly push something and hope it sticks? kinda hard to explain

will potentially post more when at home (lol phone)

[FrostyFireMage]

While I'm pretty willing to believe Refa's report (I blame all the epicmafia i've been playing on D1 cop reports not phasing me too much anymore), this is a really strange reaction, because there may be more to this than meets the eye Transformers, robots in disguise.

Also, I'm not voting for Marth yet, though I trust Refa's report out+reasoning regardless. Marth's at 5? right now, and our host was cool enough not to mention anything about hammers in the rules, and we don't need to risk an early phase end if people get too votehappy. In the meantime,

##Unvote

##Vote Pascal

It feels like Elieson is voting for the player standing out the most instead of the player being the most scummy. His reasoning is also pretty bad which kinda ties into the first point.

##Vote: Elieson

[Mitsuki]

Refa's cop result was a reaction test? MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH
##Unvote

Don't expect everything to be well explained because I've been away all day and I'm staying up late just to post on mafia.

My read on FFM doesn't apply anymore, but he's null to me.

Because it felt to me that it was more likely to be a reaction test than something actually real but I didn't want to say that until Marth posted in case he was scum who would just give it up. I just felt like Mitsuki wouldn't believe it so readily considering she tends to be skeptical of my reaction tests on EM, so it bugged me.

The thing with your reaction tests on EM is that you do something scummy, not claim a cop guilty. I'm skeptic because from my point of view you could be scumslipping and trying to pass it as a reaction test.
The fact that the cop guilty on D1 could be a reaction test never crossed my mind. Also I was kind of townreading Refa before and it would make no sense to fake a report as scum.

I still think Refa is town. He's basically acting like he has nothing to hide and scumhunting. What I've seen in previous games is that he tends to WIFOM a lot or (in the last game) he acted normal but didn't do much and was scummy as hell. I've been expecting Refa to act like he's doing now as town from a couple of games already, and I don't think I'm wrong this time.

##Vote: Darros

I don't like his Poly vote here, he doesn't seem to have real reasoning and just seems to have chosen something that's generally seen as scummy (putting people close to hammer) to place the vote. Basically he doesn't give an explanation on why putting people at L-2 is scummy and the wording doesn't show confidence.

The part about him suspecting Poly on the "inb4" thing is null though.

this is a really strange reaction, because there may be more to this than meets the eye

I would like you to clarify what you meant by that.

[Refa]

Hey, you know what really makes me towny as fuck? ACTIVE LURKING. NOTHING SAYS TOWN!REFA LIKE ACTIVE LURKING, READ KIRBY MAFIA FOR MORE DETAILS.

In all seriousness, I just made this post to say that I'm here and catching up now. Also will make an active effort not to wall again, just wanted to make sure what I got out of that crazy (awesome) reaction test was out in the happen and was too lazy to edit it.

[Refa]

Don't really get kirsche's push on BBM, but it doesn't come across as scummy to me (this is because of the lack of self consciousness in addition to him asking other people what they think of his case). kirsche, is BBM scum and why?

Manix, you said this post reads weird, can you explain why that is? I think the wording is confusing, but I don't get why it's scummy enough for you to vote him on.

BBM, do you really think FFM would plan things that way as scum (getting me and Marth mislynched)? I mean surely if he was scum and Marth was town, he'd know it was a gambit (and that I'd reveal it sooner or later, I mean I'd have to be a fucking idiot not too).

Gutreading scorri as town, I don't even know why. I feel like she posts the same way as both alignments, but it's just the wording and less nitpicking overall I guess. Fuck me if I'm wrong.

[Refa]

It feels like Elieson is voting for the player standing out the most instead of the player being the most scummy. His reasoning is also pretty bad which kinda ties into the first point.

##Vote: Elieson

FFM, why is this vote worse than the other votes on you?

The problem with FFM is that I think he's scummy, so I can't fault the people voting him for well, voting him, but I don't like how the wagon built so easily. I feel like a scum wagon would have more...resistance to it, I dunno. Still would prefer to lynch Eurykins honestly. ##comeatme

Mitsuki's Darros case makes sense (him nitpicking at minor points overall to look like he's contributing), but all of his other posts have came across as townie to me so I probably still wouldn't vote him for that.

[Refa]

AND NOW I HAVE A HEADACHE THANKS MANIX

Probably will lurk this thread but won't post until this headache goes away.

[Bluedoom]

I agree with the FFM cases- the way he really pushed the 1v1 between Refa and I looks bad. Also the empty unvote afterwards is bad too. BUT there are 4 votes on him now so I'll pick a different target.

##Vote: Scorri

I think the your kirsche vote feels like its polarising - a major portion of your kirsche scum read is gut-based and that's the same case with your BBM townread. Add in the fact that you have a nullread on almost everyone else, and it feels like you were looking for a reason to keep your vote on kirsche.

SB, if you thought Refa was performing a reaction test on me, why did you initially vote me anyway? That part just doesn't add up imo.

Refa makes a good point about Poly in post #58. Refa himself is a town read atm since scum making such a move is a horrible idea unless they just wanted to pull off reaction test cred.

Elie is probably town based off of his FFM vote where he says "There might be more to this than meets the eye" because scum Eli probably wouldn't try to act like the wise old man and instead be passive-aggressive as fuck.

[Bluedoom]

If you have any of you have questions you can ask them now because I'll be gone for a good 18 hours of this day phase soon.

[scorri]

Adressing Marth:
It's true that most of my stuff is gut reads, but that was all I had to go off of. To me, it felt like kirsche was pushing something that wasn't actually there and BBM was responding well and in a way that made him look townie. Both people commented on the fact that people weren't really talking about their argument, but the way the two went about it is one of the things that made me read BBM town and kirsche as scum. BBM was very neutral about his comment, saying more how he found it weird that people hadn't commented on it. kirsche on the other hand was almost pushing/daring people to comment on it. It felt like he was too eager to have people address the argument and maybe like he was trying to get people to call in town in fighting? Cause that's how most minor spats like theirs gets addressed in ED1 situations like this one. So yeah, it's gut, but like... there's reasoning behind the gut? As for the rest being null reads, it's true that when I skimmed kirsche and BBM popped out more to me because of my vote on kirsche, but that was more because I didn't want to leave an RVS vote on someone after enough stuff had happened to justify a real vote. So I was focused on seeing if I still had reason to find kirsche suspicious, and I did.

Right, moving on to other reads:

Manix's reaction to Refa's reaction test feels fairly townie for me. I was a bit suspicious of the way he voted and then after the fact thought to ask Refa why marth, but then I remembered it's Manix and he likes to go for record of most posts in a row, so considering that I think the vote and the question can basically be considered one post and that reaction of wanting to know why Refa picked Marth was decently townie I think. I'm more suspicious of the people who just jumped on the wagon without really seeming to think about the issue.

Can't tell if Mitsuki and FFM are just not aware of reaction tests or if they didn't want to put that idea in Marth's head, but the fact that they seemed to not even consider the fact that Refa might be town faking the results seems... off to me? Dunno, would like their reasoning for why they didn't consider it might be a reaction test

Elie being cautious of hammer seems a fairly townie attitude, if he was scum he could have easily just voted Marth and then pretended to not have realized that Marth had that many votes on him.

The above applies to SB as well

Poly's reaction is ehhhh. He fits into the "follows blindly after Refa" and he has the added bonus of having come right after Elie was cautioning about early hammers but he still jumped on the wagon. Slightly scummy vibe

FFM's vote on Elie feels like a pretty big OMGUS. He doesn't do anything to explain why Elie's post is bad, he just goes "oh, you're voting me for standing out not for being scummy also your vote is bad"


So yeah, in summary, people I'd be ok lynching today as of right now: Kirsche, FFM, and Poly

most others are null with vague townie vibes from some and a few town reads as well

[FrostyFireMage]

I voted Elie because he kinda started the whole wagon on me and I felt his gut read of me as scum didn't really have much basis behind it.

I didn't really think of a reason why a townie would fake something like Refa's reaction test so I made the logical conclusion.

[Bluedoom]

FFM your vote on Elie sucks because you're angry he started a wagon at you.

Also this was your reason right here "It feels like Elieson is voting for the player standing out the most instead of the player being the most scummy."

How the hell was I most scummy? I hadn't even posted in the thread and someone faked a guilty on me. Seriously?

This is just you being self-conscious and you know it.

[Bluedoom]

*angry that

[Grace]

Manix, you said this post reads weird, can you explain why that is?

#28 reads weird. hard to explain.

anyway. I still feel that BBM's tone is off.

@scorri: i'm doing a bad job of multiposting currently lol

kirsche is being obstinate. i currently don't have a read there bc i'm struggling to figure out whether it's town or scum motivation.

Also I'm surprised that other than a passing comment from SB and kind of Refa nobody has really commented on the exchange between kirsche and myself?

this actually reads really off; i understand that it was one of the major rvs events, but it's like, "i want attention give me attention so i can look townie" which doesn't feel right.

[Grace]

@marf: you realize ffm was not referring to you being scummy at all?????????? go read his post again

?????

[Grace]

like that's. bad.

[Bluedoom]

read the first post of this page again. Elieson post that he quotes only mentions me and FFM (and the part where he trusts Refa).

If Elie's voting FFM, who do you think he's referring to with "player being most scummy"

[Grace]

im good at reading

promise

[Mitsuki]

Can't tell if Mitsuki and FFM are just not aware of reaction tests or if they didn't want to put that idea in Marth's head, but the fact that they seemed to not even consider the fact that Refa might be town faking the results seems... off to me? Dunno, would like their reasoning for why they didn't consider it might be a reaction test

I just didn't consider that it could be a reaction test. I can't give reasoning on why I didn't think something that never crossed my mind.

Why are you asking FFM and me only and not Manix and Poly? They also voted for Marth.

[charlie_]

mafia is effort

I don't like kirsche's post here, he says BBM is "satisfactory" due to his recent posts but he never really explains why or what his read is on him now, and his FFM vote just looks like a glorified prodvote rather than something he actually finds scummy. It pretty much lets him leap off the wagon if he needs be or stick it out if he can get away with it.

Mitsuki's response to me is fine, but I feel like she should have more to say than just attacking one of Darros' posts for reasons that aren't even that good. Not explaining why putting someone close to hammer could be scummy isn't a scumtell, it's just assuming the rest of the game know why, which isn't bad considering how obvious it is.

Marth: I threw my vote in to make what I thought was a reaction test seem more believable, since a lot of people didn't seem to think it could be one.

scorri is probably town imo. He posts just seem more natural than her last scumgame where she basically coasted through and only talked about the people in the spotlight at the time even before Randa's gambit.

Manix: what makes BBM asking for comments on his and kirsche's posts different than kirsche doing it?

I don't like how FFM says "I didn't see why town would fake like that" about Refa, which kind of implies he's scummy, but then he hasn't done anything about it.

Going with this though.

##Unvote

##Vote: kirsche

[Mitsuki]

I have more thoughts on the game but either I want to wait to see more from people since I can see how town could do x/it's gut or it's not conclusive. I'm also waiting for replies.

(I don't know why you expect much more from me considering that my D1s are usually worse than this one's being but well)

Not explaining by itself isn't the scumtell, the thing is that in addition to that there seems to be no townie conviction and what Darros said is just pointing out a typical scumtell that I don't see how applies there.

Also I saw Darros do exactly that to case me on EM when we were scumbuddies (he said that my vote was OMGUS and that OMGUS was scummy) so there's also that.