Reclass Mafia! Postgames are too much effort

[Randa]

Randa whoiscum and why aren't you voting them?

I didn't vote because I got hungry. And I won't vote till I reread a few people.

And I'm thinking Ace and FFM are pretty likely to be scum. Maybe GP or Julleite. I'd have to go back and read them though. Also I was promised a hydra and rein has not hydra'd.

[Randa]

FFM: Nothings changed from the last time I talked about him way back in post 391. His two posts since don't really strike me as having a whole lot in them.

Ace: Also hasn't really changed since I last talked about her in post 432. Post 435 mostly talks about voting patterns.

Also I find this amusing.

Also self preserves by voting to ensure he isn't the D1 lynch by voting Darros

I know I'm town. I thought/felt Darros was town. Why would I vote someone I know is town over someone I believe is town?

[Randa]

I'm stupid and forgot to vote.

##FFM

Let's sheep SB for now.

[Ace Tactician]

Getting motivated for this game is really fucking hard.

I know the feeling, I'm already unmotivated as you can get.

[Zkirsche]

kirsche, is Randa's "genuine" post and stuff on a dude who flipped town really enough to elevate him to your strongest townread?

It wasn't the only genuine town post (I know it's getting buzzwordy but I'm not sure how else to put it) imo, he's putting in a lot of effort alongside that and it all feels very townie. It's as you say, as scum we would just lurk.

My read on FFM is weak but I feel a lot of your points against him have been overly negative and that he's been trying to promote discussion when he can. I didn't realise it was only 10 posts though, which is less than I thought. You're probably right in that I'm handwaving him a bit, and maybe I'm sticking onto my D1 read a bit too hard, but I don't want to lynch here.

Beli hasn't really been wagoned though.

@Ace:If you're struggling to find something to talk about, could you start with the points I made above?

[Ace Tactician]

Oh you. :P

Yeah, I was not expecting a Blitz kill.

So first, FFM. I'd be okay with lynching him. I don't know why but I would.

I'm kinda convinced Randa is mafia at this point. The two people who were pushing him the hardest are the two people dead. Granted this would be hilariously clumsy night killing if true, but as I don't really know how any of you play I'd say it's worth the shot.

However, I'm more zoned in on Juliette. It's not entirely her fault (Koneko has a couple of posts and they're all atrocious), but she hasn't said anything that would convince me of her innocence. Saying things like "I lost my post" or "posting isnt easy" is making excuses for no reason, and her vote for PKLucas when she had a stronger basis for Randa and Ace doesn't make sense to me.

##Vote Juliette

This vote is just cringe worthy awful. I wasn't entirely sure about Beli being scum initially due to the town feel I got but now I'm certain. If you're convinced Randa is scum based off the night kills then why vote Juliette instead of Randa? This vote reads like you're going for your second strongest read and that bugs me. Voting for a secondary target would make more sense if we were in danger of consolidating for a lynch. This vote reads too similar to the Darros vote D1.

##Vote Belisarius

[Green Poet]

Why are night kills the center of your case.

It's a valid point. The people that pushed your case the most are dead, and their deaths aren't diminished by being night kills; if anything, there could be a pattern there.

So first, FFM. I'd be okay with lynching him. I don't know why but I would.

I'm kinda convinced Randa is mafia at this point. The two people who were pushing him the hardest are the two people dead. Granted this would be hilariously clumsy night killing if true, but as I don't really know how any of you play I'd say it's worth the shot.

However, I'm more zoned in on Juliette. It's not entirely her fault (Koneko has a couple of posts and they're all atrocious), but she hasn't said anything that would convince me of her innocence. Saying things like "I lost my post" or "posting isnt easy" is making excuses for no reason, and her vote for PKLucas when she had a stronger basis for Randa and Ace doesn't make sense to me.

##Vote Juliette

I think everyone's already explained why this is bad - no explanation for FFM lynch priority, and a Juliette vote over someone he's "convinced is mafia."

I would note that Beli's offhand comment about FFM makes it unlikely that the two of them are both scum, but that's all I'm getting from this.

I think that scum likely exists among FFM, Rein/Juliette, and Beli. Randa and FFM had both been more or less null to me, so I'm going to reread them both. I'd have to find specific parts of posts to be more confident, but after reading through the last few pages I'm leaning town on Ace.

[Belisarius]

If you're convinced Randa is scum based on killspec, why not vote him?

Also, you didn't answer me when I asked what makes being unsure of yourself and following other people town behaviour.

I'm about 100% certain this is clear from my post, but I didn't vote Randa because I am more certain about Juliette.

Referring to PKLucas? It was the content of his posts. I got the impression he was trying to help but didn't know how.

Why are night kills the center of your case.

It's an observation and because I'm not going through 25 pages to reiterate things people have already said about you.

If you're convinced Randa is scum based off the night kills then why vote Juliette instead of Randa? This vote reads like you're going for your second strongest read and that bugs me. Voting for a secondary target would make more sense if we were in danger of consolidating for a lynch. This vote reads too similar to the Darros vote D1.

"Kinda convinced" does not equal convinced. I'm not sure why you guys are taking this observation as my strongest read, but he isn't hence the Juliette vote.

[Randa]

I'm about 100% certain this is clear from my post, but I didn't vote Randa because I am more certain about Juliette.

It's not clear if nobody read it that way.

It's an observation and because I'm not going through 25 pages to reiterate things people have already said about you.

I'm also gonna address what GP said here. I don't have a problem if its an observation and part of a case. The problem is you worded in a fashion that made it look like it was the main reason you thought I was scum. And this response isn't helping your point. It looks like your just looking for lack of a better phrase, easy content. If you wanna say somebody's scum make a case with like actual examples of scummy behavior. That should be the basis of the case. Not an action which could've been preformed by any person in this game, for any given reason.

You don't have to go through 25 pages, you have to go the first page look at my ISO. You find a post scummy look at it in context. Then if it's still scummy and nobody's brought bring it up. If somebody already has then just say the post number of the case. It's not that hard. This reinforces what I've been saying about this game for the last 72 hours. People don't care enough to actually put effort in. That's what this post reads to me. And no this is not an AtE before anybody says it. These are just my thoughts.

[Belisarius]

Responses like these are absolutely baffling. I'm putting in effort, but it's my own effort. If I don't like to or want to post cases, I'm not going to post cases. Playing differently than you do does not mean there is no effort. Now if you want to tell someone they're not putting in effort, PM the people who subbed out or disappeared entirely. Do not tell me I'm not putting in effort.

If this game isn't fun for you it's because you're too worried about what everyone else is doing instead of doing what you want to do.

[Juliette]

I'm about 100% certain this is clear from my post, but I didn't vote Randa because I am more certain about Juliette.

"Kinda convinced" does not equal convinced. I'm not sure why you guys are taking this observation as my strongest read, but he isn't hence the Juliette vote.

What is the issue you have with my vote on PKLucas yesterday, then? He was my strongest scumread at the time, and obviously he isn't now, but you seem to be taking issue with people saying they thought your strongest read was on Randa when you are calling me out for saying I had stronger basis to vote Randa or Ace when I never personally thought that was the case, so this strikes me as rather severe hypocrisy. Furthermore, comments I made about posting being difficult or losing my posts have not actually kept me from posting and one of them was an off-the-cuff remark, and losing a post can happen to anyone. For a strong read you have, it doesn't really seem to be based on very much.

As for me, I still think FFM is the best option. He seemed oddly reluctant to vote Kinumi yesterday even though he mentioned her being scummy and deadline was approaching, so I think with her flipped scum he seems even worse than before. I would not mind an Ace lynch either still, and based purely on today's posts Beli seems like a decent option as well- I think I will look at some of his earlier posts as well soon.

##Vote: FFM

[Belisarius]

What is the issue you have with my vote on PKLucas yesterday, then? He was my strongest scumread at the time, and obviously he isn't now, but you seem to be taking issue with people saying they thought your strongest read was on Randa when you are calling me out for saying I had stronger basis to vote Randa or Ace when I never personally thought that was the case, so this strikes me as rather severe hypocrisy. Furthermore, comments I made about posting being difficult or losing my posts have not actually kept me from posting and one of them was an off-the-cuff remark, and losing a post can happen to anyone. For a strong read you have, it doesn't really seem to be based on very much.

Admittedly similar with the difference being mine was a game observation, while yours were reads. I interpreted your PKLucas read as being comparatively weak.

[BBM]

VOTALS

FFM (3): SB, Randa, Rein/Juliette

Belisarius (2): kirsche, Ace

Rein/Juliette (1): Belisarius

Not Voting (3): FFM, Elieson, Green Poet

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch. There are 35 hours and 18 minutes left in the phase.

FFM has been prodded.

[Elieson]

I don't think Kinumi bussed FFM. Kinumi also agreed with SB pretty hard, but never really disclosed SB as a townread.

I also think SB is pushing FFM for being FFM, rather than being scummy, and it feels like too easy of a vote.

Yes, I'm basing this mostly on a dead scum's interactions. fiteme

​##Vote SB

[FrostyFireMage]

Oh you. :P

Yeah, I was not expecting a Blitz kill.

So first, FFM. I'd be okay with lynching him. I don't know why but I would.

I'm kinda convinced Randa is mafia at this point. The two people who were pushing him the hardest are the two people dead. Granted this would be hilariously clumsy night killing if true, but as I don't really know how any of you play I'd say it's worth the shot.

However, I'm more zoned in on Juliette. It's not entirely her fault (Koneko has a couple of posts and they're all atrocious), but she hasn't said anything that would convince me of her innocence. Saying things like "I lost my post" or "posting isnt easy" is making excuses for no reason, and her vote for PKLucas when she had a stronger basis for Randa and Ace doesn't make sense to me.

##Vote Juliette

"It would be cool if FFM got lynched, but I think I'll vote for a recent sub despite finding Randa the most scummy player."

This...makes no sense at all but other people have noticed that so w/e. If he is scum he's not even trying to appear townie.

The reason I didn't vote Kinumi yesterday was because her posts felt more like she was too busy to actually focus on the game rather than scummy. The fact that she was subbing out made me feel like this was true, and I felt targeting someone with more transgressions would be more beneficial to town.

What is the issue you have with my vote on PKLucas yesterday, then? He was my strongest scumread at the time, and obviously he isn't now, but you seem to be taking issue with people saying they thought your strongest read was on Randa when you are calling me out for saying I had stronger basis to vote Randa or Ace when I never personally thought that was the case, so this strikes me as rather severe hypocrisy. Furthermore, comments I made about posting being difficult or losing my posts have not actually kept me from posting and one of them was an off-the-cuff remark, and losing a post can happen to anyone. For a strong read you have, it doesn't really seem to be based on very much.

As for me, I still think FFM is the best option. He seemed oddly reluctant to vote Kinumi yesterday even though he mentioned her being scummy and deadline was approaching, so I think with her flipped scum he seems even worse than before. I would not mind an Ace lynch either still, and based purely on today's posts Beli seems like a decent option as well- I think I will look at some of his earlier posts as well soon.

##Vote: FFM

This sounds defensive - you started off with a statement that sounded like you were building a case on Beli for targeting you, but then you decide to target me? Feels like you're just sheeping.

Also is SB going to give reads on anybody besides me?

Beli is an easy target right now so I want to see everyone's reactions to his most recent vote.

[Elieson]

Beli also reads like town boron and anyone who votes for obvitown boron is obviscum

[Randa]

## Unvote

## Vote boron

Second time this game I've voted a hidden.

Also I had some actual purpose in posting this I just can't remember what that purpose was. Ah well It'll come to me later.

Also also even though I don't like being at L-2 half way through a phase I don't think scum is rash enough to quick hammer so I'm just gonna leave it as is for the time being.

## Unvote

##Vote FFM

Still blatantly sheeping SB on this.

[Ace Tactician]

Beli's latest posts don't instill me with much confidence.

[charlie_]

It wasn't the only genuine town post (I know it's getting buzzwordy but I'm not sure how else to put it) imo, he's putting in a lot of effort alongside that and it all feels very townie. It's as you say, as scum we would just lurk.

My read on FFM is weak but I feel a lot of your points against him have been overly negative and that he's been trying to promote discussion when he can. I didn't realise it was only 10 posts though, which is less than I thought. You're probably right in that I'm handwaving him a bit, and maybe I'm sticking onto my D1 read a bit too hard, but I don't want to lynch here.

Beli hasn't really been wagoned though.

It's less the reasons that bothered me and more how it was a huge fucking turnaround from him being the second scummiest person in the game to suddenly being your strongest townread, but eh. The reasoning works but it makes me kind of uneasy still.

I don't actually remember what I was thinking about Beli now though but I feel like the slot is kinda null overall (and I also thought it was kind of clear he thought Juliette was scummier than Randa considering he explicitly stated it?) He feels like stubborn over scum and I can follow what he's been saying fine, even if I don't agree with it.

I don't think Kinumi bussed FFM. Kinumi also agreed with SB pretty hard, but never really disclosed SB as a townread.

I also think SB is pushing FFM for being FFM, rather than being scummy, and it feels like too easy of a vote.

Yes, I'm basing this mostly on a dead scum's interactions. fiteme

​##Vote SB

Kinumi barely ever voted and FFM was never a viable wagon, the interaction means basically nothing. Kinumi could've easily been trying to appease town!me and probably would've been more careful not just to agree with her scumbuddy that readily. And seriously I'm not pushing FFM for being FFM, I'm pushing him because he's scummy. get a better vote kthnx

Ace still feels like they're just jumping on the current wagon (especially considering Beli was leaning town the last time they mentioned them...) and haven't actually read the post that closely. Seriously.

Don't like FFM's last post either. The first two lines are basically fluff and it sounds like they're attacking Juliette's post because they have multiple reads and talked about the one they didn't vote for first. Also "Beli is an easy target and I want opinions on him" doesn't actually say what he thinks about him which is pretty bad.

[FrostyFireMage]

It's less the reasons that bothered me and more how it was a huge fucking turnaround from him being the second scummiest person in the game to suddenly being your strongest townread, but eh. The reasoning works but it makes me kind of uneasy still.

I don't actually remember what I was thinking about Beli now though but I feel like the slot is kinda null overall (and I also thought it was kind of clear he thought Juliette was scummier than Randa considering he explicitly stated it?) He feels like stubborn over scum and I can follow what he's been saying fine, even if I don't agree with it.

Kinumi barely ever voted and FFM was never a viable wagon, the interaction means basically nothing. Kinumi could've easily been trying to appease town!me and probably would've been more careful not just to agree with her scumbuddy that readily. And seriously I'm not pushing FFM for being FFM, I'm pushing him because he's scummy. get a better vote kthnx

Ace still feels like they're just jumping on the current wagon (especially considering Beli was leaning town the last time they mentioned them...) and haven't actually read the post that closely. Seriously.

Don't like FFM's last post either. The first two lines are basically fluff and it sounds like they're attacking Juliette's post because they have multiple reads and talked about the one they didn't vote for first. Also "Beli is an easy target and I want opinions on him" doesn't actually say what he thinks about him which is pretty bad.

Please tell how they are "basically fluff", would you? Considering you've been making pretty uninspired posts all game and all.

[Juliette]

This sounds defensive - you started off with a statement that sounded like you were building a case on Beli for targeting you, but then you decide to target me? Feels like you're just sheeping.

I said I found you scummy far before my vote today, and I fail to see the issue in pointing out why someone's case is flawed. I don't like that Beli sort of dismissed that his vote is similar to mine either based on small semantics, which is what his response to me really comes down to, I feel.

At this stage FFM feels like he is just weakly swatting down posts against him, so I will keep my vote where it is for now.

[Belisarius]

I don't like that Beli sort of dismissed that his vote is similar to mine either based on small semantics, which is what his response to me really comes down to, I feel.

Sigh. It isn't semantics. Mine was a game observation. An observation of something in the game that happened independent of the players (for example: a night kill). Yours were player reads. They are similar in the way they were presented, but they are very different.

[Juliette]

You are still ultimately ignoring that I did vote who my strongest read was, and not pushed a secondary or even tertiary suspect as you called me out on in your original post.

[Green Poet]

Phone posting so this will likely contain misspellings.

@Elie - I'd consider that more strongly if SB had been playing more anti town and FFM had been townier. Atm the only thing that strikes me as potentially scummy about SB is how he'd gone on for d2 without really commenting on the Kinumi wagon, instead pushing FFM for most of it and only voting Kinumi when her lynch was assured. This in itself doesn't point to SB as scum, since even otherwise obvtown players aren't always right, but it introduces the possibility.

An FFM lynch seems inevitable. His most recent reply to SB (can't link or quote it on this; it's the one questioning "basically fluff") feels just really off by asserting that SB's posts have been uninspired, despite the many people town reading him, while not elaborating on how they are uninspired or where specifically, or whether or not this makes SB scum.

The rebuttal is brief and seemingly bitter (?) enough that I'm reminded of FFTA where FFM was bussed; the same isn't impossible here.

I feel like Randa's continued insistence that he's sheeping SB is supposed to/could mean more, but I'm drawing a blank and am still null on him. Just never seen Randa play like this before. Going through his ISO, I see considerable filler, but stuff like his post speculating *YLO situations just don't look scum-intentioned.

I think Elie's on the right track with pulling reads from Kinumi interactions, just not entirely confident in the conclusion drawn of scum!SB. Will look through Kinumi's ISO later on.

We're not in *YLO, so putting FFM at L-1.

Vote: FFM

Anyone hammering before claim should be treated as scum, etc.

Interested in seeing SB's reaction to the claim.

[Green Poet]

##Vote: FFM

Phone posting is hard k