Hard mode: you give me tips, and I...

[cloudropis]

Chapter 1-6-2

Everyone is deployed just to shove around people if needed. Tauroneo and Sothe hold the bridge with Micaiah behind to get some easy kills (she gets one. I shouldn't have equipped Sothe with the Iron Dagger, but I was afraid the reinforcements would have swarmed them). Everyone else goes to help Fiona, but before that Jill gets the soldier next to the ballista and one of the two Cavaliers from the right side, Volug kills the ballista man, Zihark the other soldier, Edward the lone fighter. The Marado Army acts surprisingly clever but I think without rigging hits you can't avoid one of them dying in the first EP. Sadly, one of the hostages dies too the next turn.

While Sothe and Tauroneo slay all the cavaliers on the left side of the bridge, everyone (including Micaiah) goes past the bridge and destroy everything. The enemies' AS is pretty low, Nolan and Jill double rather comfortably and the only real issue are the two Fire Mages that even killed Volug in my first attempt. Nolan gets a great HP STR SKL SPD level up. Sadly Jill doesn't get a level because she started the chapter with 0 EXP. When the right side is done and the Marado Army is safe I let Tauroneo kill all the reinforcements (didn't want to risk Sothe getting killed, and he needed to grab the hidden Master Seal) while I bait the last Fire Mage with Nolan and the boss and the Javelin cavalier with Volug, who decimates the former for Micaiah and Howls the latter. Edward kills the Javelin cavalier, Micaiah the boss and gets STR MAG DEF RES (I'd really like you to get Speed), set, game, match.

Paragon goes to Micaiah because she's level 10, Edward gets the Brave Sword, I bexp Nolan and get HP MAG DEF and can now promote... Next chapter, because I want Edward to use the Master Crown. I think the map on SF is wrong, Sothe didn't grab the Crown in the bottom-left part of the square. Nolan is doing pretty good, one ahead in STR, SPD, DEF and two in MAG, but 3 behind in luck. He capped Skill though.

Jill gets HP SPD LCK and is now level 17, she's doing well but still has 12 Skill. Not buying the Secret Book though. I'm holding the Red Gem and the Arms Scroll for Ilyana.

I support Jill with Zihark and Nolan with Volug because I can't do otherwise yet. Edward picks the heartbroken Laura from the ground firmly believing "Bros before hoes" is bullshit.

Resets: 1 this chapter, total 15

Turn count: 12.

I'm a bit sorry I had Tauroneo solo more than half of the enemies in the map, but if I let'em go east the DB simply wouldn't have survived. Maybe with Resolve!Zihark, but I gave it to Micaiah.

Edited August 27, 2014 by cloudropis

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The supports sound well so far.

All of whom have low availability (and in Tanith's case, other issues [*coughspeedhack*]; Sigrun, who uses it better than either her or Marcia, doesn't have it much better).

Their availibility is still good enough to make good use of imbue. In general imbue is only really useful for seraph knights because of the massive boost in magic by the promotion.

In 3-12 give Marcia and Tanith paragon to promote them in this chapter. Then in 3-F give imbue to one of them or to both (if you bring the imbue scroll from part 1 via Ilyana to Ike).

[dondon151]

i'm not sure what's the point of giving the TC tips if he adamantly insists that he'll ignore all of the good ones.

[cloudropis]

i'm not sure what's the point of giving the TC tips if he adamantly insists that he'll ignore all of the good ones.

I adamantly said since the beginning that I'm not doing stuff that aims for LTC or anything like that. That includes but not limited to overusing crutch characters, spending money to forge weapons for specific occasions that nobody else can use, and generally things that require a lot of effort not needed to just progress the game.

I bet you're referring to Quintessence's tip because it's the last one of that kind. His tip required me to:

-spend money for a weapon that only a Jeigan can use and just to "2 turn the chapter"

-strip down characters I'm using of their skills, biting them in the ass in the future when re-equipping them because they now cost SP

-rigging the RNG in any kind or form

-miss a lot of experience for my units for the sake of "doing it fast".

And lo and behold, I completed the chapter without wasting money for a specific boss killer that won't see use anywhere else, removing skills from anyone I'm using, and by not denying my units of (much) experience!

TalesOF Hysteria's kind of tips are the things that I'm looking for, because it doesn't include any of the above.

Edited August 27, 2014 by cloudropis

[dondon151]

I adamantly said since the beginning that I'm not doing stuff that aims for LTC or anything like that.

i will thoroughly dispel this misconception.

That includes but not limited to overusing crutch characters, spending money to forge weapons for specific occasions that nobody else can use, and generally things that require a lot of effort not needed to just progress the game.

none of these choices indicate that a player is "aiming for LTC" or anything of the sort. try to repeat these statements in your head if you want to understand how absurd this sentence really is. for example: if player is overusing crutch characters, then he's aiming for LTC. conclusion doesn't follow from the premise. consider the reason why you labeled some characters as "crutch" characters - it's definitely not because they're good in LTC! - though they just happen to be, most of the time. you labeled them as "crutch" characters because they are units on whom a player can fall back, but they are really better employed as units on whom a player can rely.

furthermore, "things that require a lot of effort not needed to just progress to the game" encompasses almost every decision that you are making. the purpose of advice given from an LTC perspective is precisely to minimize your effort in order to maximize your gain. it requires significantly less effort to forge +5 MT iron knives and do a sothe solo than it is to grind micaiah, edward, and nolan to usable parameters. please think for a moment before you make silly statements.

I bet you're referring to Quintessence's tip because it's the last one of that kind. His tip required me to:

-spend money for a weapon that only a Jeigan can use and just to "2 turn the chapter"

-strip down characters I'm using of their skills, biting them in the ass in the future when re-equipping them because they now cost SP

-rigging the RNG in any kind or form

-miss a lot of experience for my units for the sake of "doing it fast".

And lo and behold, I completed the chapter without wasting money for a specific boss killer that won't see use anywhere else, removing skills from anyone I'm using, and by not denying my units of (much) experience!

1. sothe is a good unit and gets a lot of mileage out of +5 MT iron knives in every part 1 chapter in which he exists.

2. why is it not beneficial to strip skills off characters that you don't plan to use? why plan to use terrible characters if you're asking for advice?

3. by this definition, you "rig" the RNG literally any time you try to connect an attack with <100 hit.

4. experience is only a means to an end. what's the point in grinding when it's not demonstrably beneficial to use all of the characters?

you've completed every chapter thus far, which is not at all surprising considering that FE10 is not an impossible game. had you followed good advice, not only would you have completed chapters in fewer turns on average (thus preventing complications that arise from taking too long in a chapter), but you also would not have had to reset as often to accommodate for the deaths of weaker units.

TalesOF Hysteria's kind of tips are the things that I'm looking for, because it doesn't include any of the above.

well, of course they're what you're looking for, because they're bad tips. there are users here who have been members for many years and can demonstrate a wealth of knowledge and experience about the game. would you rather trust them or a user who hasn't even been a member for 6 months?

Edited August 28, 2014 by dondon151

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

well, of course they're what you're looking for, because they're bad tips. there are users here who have been members for many years and can demonstrate a wealth of knowledge and experience about the game. would you rather trust them or a user who hasn't even been a member for 6 months?

Seriously what a shitty argumentation is that?

Being member for only a few months does not mean that I have no idea about this game!

I have completed FE10 about 80 times in all diffuculties with different challenges so I can share my experiences in this thread.

These tips just refer to my playstyle and they worked very well for me on hard mode.

And nobody is forced to follow my advices.

Edited August 28, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[cloudropis]

I can't be assed with the forums' quote system nowadays so I'll just borrow 4chan's greentext.

First thing first, I'll make clear that I never said LTC is useless or less efficient or anything - it's not what I'm aiming from, and I'm fully aware that LTCing is probably the best and most efficient way to win the game.

But if what I define as LTCing is not LTCing, as you said, then let's call it "relying on the jeigan characters". I don't wanna do that because we're talking about Volug, a Laguz with bad growths, Sothe, a mediocre Rogue, and Tauroneo, a pretty decent General but still "only" a General. Yes, probably abusing forges let's you go through 3-6, 3-12 and 3-13 with just them but I don't see the point in ignoring good units like Nolan and Jill that are perfectly trainable... Unless for some reason you really need to 2 turn some chapter (which also causes missing items). What else am I supposed to do all game then? Playing FE recruiting all characters, getting all items and without going LOLOifay for the whole game is an invisible dogma that I, like everyone else, follow, almost every FE can be beaten easily just steamrolling everything with crutch characters and not resetting when someone dies.

>sothe is a good unit and gets a lot of mileage out of +5 MT iron knives in every part 1 chapter in which he exists.

not as good as characters that might have an use for part 4 and the endgame. And he's not so required for Act 1 other than a mietshield, giving him exp is useless. Maybe Act 4 is doable anyway with just the Greil Mercenaries and the laguz royals, maybe not, this is my first Hard Mode PT and I can't know

>why is it not beneficial to strip skills off characters that you don't plan to use? why plan to use terrible characters if you're asking for advice?

now this is lacking reading comprehension, I said I PLAN to use them. And are you really calling Zihark, Jill and Nolan terrible characters? Now what, everything who isn't a royal laguz is bad?

>by this definition, you "rig" the RNG literally any time you try to connect an attack with <100 hit.

now this is being pedantic, you know what Quintessence and I meant, manipulating the RNG to get skill procs/crit.

>experience is only a means to an end. what's the point in grinding when it's not demonstrably beneficial to use all of the characters?

"grinding"? I grinded once for a personal quirk that has jack to do with this. Training units normally by giving them kills is not "grinding", is using the EXP the chapter gives you. You're talking like this were Final Fantasy Tactics.

>would you rather trust them or a user who hasn't even been a member for 6 months?

taken in a vacuum this argument is absolutely fucking idiotic, but LTC is a thing that requires skill and experience so I'll give it a pass in this case. TOH's tips are not bad just because don't follow your playstyle of speedrunning/efficiency/relying on Jeigan/whatever it is. Please tell me how giving Micaiah Resolve is a bad idea. She's a frail, slow characters that can fall under the activation threshold very often thanks to sacrifice and that sorely needs Avoid and Speed not to get doubled. It's not part of some set up of "give Volug and Sothe every skill and let them destroy the map alone GOTTA GO FAST", but that doesn't mean it's bad.

The suggestions you are giving me don't fit my playstyle, end of story.

[Xator Nova]

But if what I define as LTCing is not LTCing, as you said, then let's call it "relying on the jeigan characters". I don't wanna do that because we're talking about Volug, a Laguz with bad growths, Sothe, a mediocre Rogue, and Tauroneo, a pretty decent General but still "only" a General. Yes, probably abusing forges let's you go through 3-6, 3-12 and 3-13 with just them but I don't see the point in ignoring good units like Nolan and Jill that are perfectly trainable... Unless for some reason you really need to 2 turn some chapter (which also causes missing items).

1.- When asking for tips, you're asking for advice to clear the game in the easiest and less complicated way possible. Training units only makes the game more difficult, no matter how you look at it. The objective easiest way to clear any Fire Emblem game (except FE12) is to train as few units as possible long-term, and watching them rape afterwards.

2.- As far as I'm concerned, even if you abuse the prepomotes/Volug you can still train one DB unit, which is encouraged both inside and outside LTC context. Using Jill isn't out of the question since in LTC, she flies and saves turns afterwards, and she's powerful on her own right outside of LTC. In fact, dondon suggested you to train her at the very beginning of the thread.

What else am I supposed to do all game then? Playing FE recruiting all characters, getting all items and without going LOLOifay for the whole game is an invisible dogma that I, like everyone else, follow, almost every FE can be beaten easily just steamrolling everything with crutch characters and not resetting when someone dies.

Then you shouldn't ask for tips on the first place, because you want to make the game more difficult through artificial limitations.

>sothe is a good unit and gets a lot of mileage out of +5 MT iron knives in every part 1 chapter in which he exists.

not as good as characters that might have an use for part 4 and the endgame. And he's not so required for Act 1 other than a mietshield, giving him exp is useless. Maybe Act 4 is doable anyway with just the Greil Mercenaries and the laguz royals, maybe not, this is my first Hard Mode PT and I can't know

Nobody cares for Part 4 performance, because the Greil Mercenaries, the Laguz Royals and the Dracoknights are enough, and make the rest of the cast obsolete. You'll realize that having trained anything else was a waste of time.

It's obvious that you don't know it due to this playthrough being your first in Hard Mode. However, that's why this thread exists! To give you this kind of information!

>experience is only a means to an end. what's the point in grinding when it's not demonstrably beneficial to use all of the characters?

"grinding"? I grinded once for a personal quirk that has jack to do with this. Training units normally by giving them kills is not "grinding", is using the EXP the chapter gives you. You're talking like this were Final Fantasy Tactics.

Allow me to rephrase that:

What's the point of investing EXP in multiple units when it's not demostrably benefitial to use all of the characters long-term?

The suggestions you are giving me don't fit my playstyle, end of story.

You should have asked for tips on how to make the game more difficult, then.

[Elieson]

Does your playstyle involve not using reliably strong units? Are you:

• Hording Statboosters in an effort to not actually use them
• Hording Skill Scrolls in an effort to not actually use them on people they'd be optimal on
• Not use units that would make your job easier, even once, because you're missing out on potentially 15 exp or so

Edited August 28, 2014 by Sara.

[dondon151]

Seriously what a shitty argumentation is that?

Being member for only a few months does not mean that I have no idea about this game!

I have completed FE10 about 80 times in all diffuculties with different challenges so I can share my experiences in this thread.

there are users here who have been active throughout the evolution of the tier list and who partook in the development of faster, more reliable strategies. there is ample evidence of these users performing these tasks - just look around! so unless you sincerely believe that your quality of advice compares with the quality of advice from most other long-standing members of the community, then you don't have grounds for claiming that i made a "shitty" argument.

now it just so happens that very few new users are precocious and did their research. i seem to recall chiki being one of those users. and even though he was rude at times, we were able to pretty quickly realize the quality of his insights. that is to say, good players recognize good advice when they see it.

And there's no bad tip. Everybody has its own playstyle.

how postmodern of you. of course there are bad tips, just as there are worse playstyles. some tips and playstyles take more time and effort to execute, or have a higher risk of failure, or have fewer contingencies than others.

But if what I define as LTCing is not LTCing, as you said, then let's call it "relying on the jeigan characters". I don't wanna do that because we're talking about Volug, a Laguz with bad growths, Sothe, a mediocre Rogue, and Tauroneo, a pretty decent General but still "only" a General. Yes, probably abusing forges let's you go through 3-6, 3-12 and 3-13 with just them but I don't see the point in ignoring good units like Nolan and Jill that are perfectly trainable... Unless for some reason you really need to 2 turn some chapter (which also causes missing items). What else am I supposed to do all game then? Playing FE recruiting all characters, getting all items and without going LOLOifay for the whole game is an invisible dogma that I, like everyone else, follow, almost every FE can be beaten easily just steamrolling everything with crutch characters and not resetting when someone dies.

1. volug doesn't have bad growths when you consider that most of his stats are doubled upon transformation.

2. jill is one of the best characters in the game in LTC. the easiest way to steamroll her chapters is to dump a ton of resources into jill.

3. you can also LTC with the additional condition of recruiting all characters.

i hope i've cleared up some misconceptions.

not as good as characters that might have an use for part 4 and the endgame. And he's not so required for Act 1 other than a mietshield, giving him exp is useless. Maybe Act 4 is doable anyway with just the Greil Mercenaries and the laguz royals, maybe not, this is my first Hard Mode PT and I can't know

EXP is only a means to an end. the notion of wasting EXP is fallacious for reasons that have been posted elsewhere by users such as mekkah. for example, i can also say that nolan is not required for part 4, so giving him EXP is useless. but the difference between nolan in part 4 and sothe in part 1 is that sothe didn't require any previous effort to be good in part 1.

now this is lacking reading comprehension, I said I PLAN to use them. And are you really calling Zihark, Jill and Nolan terrible characters? Now what, everything who isn't a royal laguz is bad?

now i'm certain that you're seeking offense when none is given, because your comment about laguz royals doesn't follow at all from good advice. jill i have covered already; zihark is somewhat bad and nolan is better, but still mediocre.

"grinding"? I grinded once for a personal quirk that has jack to do with this. Training units normally by giving them kills is not "grinding", is using the EXP the chapter gives you. You're talking like this were Final Fantasy Tactics.

there are varying levels of grinding. strictly speaking, it's getting more EXP than is minimally necessary. a game, especially one that is more like FE13, can offer infinite quantities of EXP. in that case, one would be using the "EXP the chapter gives you," but it would obviously be grinding.

taken in a vacuum this argument is absolutely fucking idiotic, but LTC is a thing that requires skill and experience so I'll give it a pass in this case. TOH's tips are not bad just because don't follow your playstyle of speedrunning/efficiency/relying on Jeigan/whatever it is. Please tell me how giving Micaiah Resolve is a bad idea. She's a frail, slow characters that can fall under the activation threshold very often thanks to sacrifice and that sorely needs Avoid and Speed not to get doubled. It's not part of some set up of "give Volug and Sothe every skill and let them destroy the map alone GOTTA GO FAST", but that doesn't mean it's bad.

here's a big problem, you continue to interpret what i say in the most negative light possible. i'm not sure if you simply misunderstand, or if you're being willfully dishonest. i have said, many times, that using LTC advice makes the game easier even if you don't LTC. i have never once said that you should LTC. am i being clear?

giving resolve to micaiah is not a bad idea. not all of talesofhysteria's advice is bad, but a lot of it is. there is also myriad good advice that he doesn't give.

[Irysa]

And there's no bad tip. Everybody has its own playstyle.

Oh come on. Would telling someone to attempt to solo the entirety of part 1 with Miccy not be a bad tip? Really? You're smart enough to know that bad advice does exist, don't let dondon's very frank methods of communicating rile you up.

EDIT: Also, can you all stop trying to make this some kind of LTC vs non LTC perspective? When you ask for general advice, you recieve general advice, and as it happens, many things in LTC work as general advice.

If you ask for specific advice about "how to do x" in this case, "how to use these units effectively in Hard Mode" then any experienced player here will be more than happy to give their input or thoughts on the matter. Just don't confuse suggestions of massively simplifying things to be trying to tell you how to play.

Conversely, to some of the rest of you; it isn't unreasonable for someone to wish to utilise more than one or two key units because subjectively it may give them more enjoyment/satisfaction in attempting to do so. One is still allowed to ask for advice about such a thing.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Irysa

[cloudropis]

I'm not on a PC at the moment so I'll be quick

First of all, I'm all taking all of this very lightly. Addressing dondon last post about being dishonest, of course I am not, this is just a discussion, I am not offended or anything and I hope no one is.

I am not training many units, it's just Jill, Nolan and Edward just to see how he turns out because if growth kick in he can be pretty strong but I can bench him any moment (Zihark doesn't need level right now). I dunno why someone said I'm training too many.

I decided not to skip 1-6-2 as Quint said because it would have meant losing a red gem, a master seal and exp for units that I am indeed training, correct me if I am wrong but don't efficiency runs include getting all the important items? Legit question, IIRC the GM really needed the gem.

I don't feel like I am artificially making the game harder because as I said I am training only 2-3 units, and I admit my greatest fear is having too few good units for part 4 and that's why giving all the exp to a exp hog who shouldn't ever see combat and a laguz who isn't exactly a growth unit seems weird. I'll be more open minded from now on though

[Chiki]

TalesOF Hysteria's kind of tips are the things that I'm looking for, because it doesn't include any of the above.

You should've renamed this thread "Hard mode, you give me bad tips, and I.." If you're so opposed to getting good tips why are you posting this thread in the first place?

No one wants you to play LTC. But generally, using good LTC units also means that you'll have an easy time taking the game slowly too. Jill is a wonderful example of this: she has a hard time in LTC because of exp and turn constraints (the chance of her level being high enough for 3-6 is lower). But if you dump resources and exp on her as you take the game slowly she'll be by far your best unit.

give the angelic robe from 1-4 to Micaiah, if you haven't done yet. You will get another one by Rafiel in 1-8.

give Tauroneo's resolve to Micaiah. Use sacrifice till she's under 50% health.

energydrop and dracoshield are very precious items. I normally never use them early in the game. Though Jill only has 11 base strength. So an energydrop wouldn't be a bad idea for her to use hand axes without speed penalty.

give renewal to Volug, Sothe or Zihark

give Leonardo's cancel to an unit, who often attacks (Nolan, Zihark)

Forging another iron axe for Nolan is a good idea to get good accuracy and might.

Don't listen to any of this advice.

1. Don't waste the Angelic Robe on Micaiah. She's useless apart from staff usage. Give it to Jill and either send the other one to the GMs or use it on Jill.

2. Micaiah is garbage apart from staff use. You don't even need to train her for 1-9. Watch part 11: http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?FireEmblemRD_normal_31338

3. Use the Energy Drop and Dracoshield in the early game so you can take advantage of them as early as possible. Not taking advantage of them early = wasted potential. Give them to Jill.

4. RENEWAL? You're giving tips on how to use RENEWAL? II's a waste of time.

5. Cancel now too? Why do you keep bringing up useless skills?

6. Why Nolan and not Jill?

[cloudropis]

I don't blindly follow tips I have a brain too

I gave a SR to Mic yes but for the sole reason that I always end up miscalculating some enemy ranges and get her killed by result. Probably not the best use but Jill is the only real frontline unit with HP l/durability problems so she was already in line for rafiel's SR next, don't worry. I already gave the ED to Jill and waiting the promotion of both Nolan and Jill to see who will need the DS more. Cancel and Renewal are pretty much pointless I know but what the heck is wrong in mentioning them? They still exist you know, and I myself went at least twice in saying renewal is fucking horrible, did you even read the topic? And he said Nolan because I already forged an axe for Jill, please read the topic before making assumptions.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Oh come on. Would telling someone to attempt to solo the entirety of part 1 with Miccy not be a bad tip? Really? You're smart enough to know that bad advice does exist, don't let dondon's very frank methods of communicating rile you up.

Well, you got me in this point.

Edited August 29, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[dondon151]

Conversely, to some of the rest of you; it isn't unreasonable for someone to wish to utilise more than one or two key units because subjectively it may give them more enjoyment/satisfaction in attempting to do so. One is still allowed to ask for advice about such a thing.

that's true. i understand that almost every player isn't completely rational from a purely efficient point of view. but if your reasoning is irrational, then say it and don't attempt to give a bad rational explanation. be clear about what you're willing and not willing to do from the outaet.

2. Micaiah is garbage apart from staff use. You don't even need to train her for 1-9. Watch part 11: http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?FireEmblemRD_normal_31338]http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?

i think micaiah is viable in the context of a slower playthrough, even if one utilizes LTC advice. a usable mandatory character provides a buffer against failure for players who might not be able to implement good advice to the fullest extent. in any case, we can't expect the TC to trivialize the game like you or me. i don't think it's a good recommendation for one to go out of his way and train micaiah, though.

i also recall that drafts rig micaiah's growths to 4-turn 1-9 with resolve.

incidentally, this is also an argument for sothe use, even if in most playthroughs he really is bad in part 3 and beyond.

Edited August 28, 2014 by dondon151

[cloudropis]

that's true. i understand that almost every player isn't completely rational from a purely efficient point of view. but if your reasoning is irrational, then say it and don't attempt to give a bad rational explanation. be clear about what you're willing and not willing to do from the outaet.

I really hope you're not referring to me, because I said right away what I was aiming for and the "irrational explanation" (and flash news it's not irrational) was given only when you said that I was adamantly ignoring tips that were going against my playstyle, which I made clear in the first page.

Anyway, going back on topic, Chapter 1-7: general tips about it? I remember it being pretty though on NM but I guess the Earth supports will be helpful, and that I should free all the prisoners before the reinforcements come to have an easier time. Helpful strategies (that don't require soloing the map with Volug and Sothe)? And I guess I should start thinking about what to carry to the GM with Ilyana. I don't remember the DB having any future money problem since I onlly have to outfit 3-4 people and IIRC Pelleas gives a ton of gold in part 3, am I correct?

[Irysa]

that's true. i understand that almost every player isn't completely rational from a purely efficient point of view. but if your reasoning is irrational, then say it and don't attempt to give a bad rational explanation. be clear about what you're willing and not willing to do from the outaet.

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Unfortunately, most people take immediate offence to the even slightest implication that what they want or believe is in any way, shape, or form, even perceivably is a bad thing. So, they'll attempt to rationalise an irrational position to defend themselves; and that's why we have the concept of social etiquette to manage to dodge around how nonsensical the human condition is. This is a concept that a lot of smart people around here seem to be totally aware of, yet willingly ignore for some reason.

EDIT: Goodness me, whilst I was even typing this cloud went and proved my point. How woefully inadequate language is for expressing ourselves. :\

Edited August 28, 2014 by Irysa

[cloudropis]

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Unfortunately, most people take immediate offence to the even slightest implication that what they want is in any way, shape, or form, even perceivably is a bad thing. So, they'll attempt to rationalise an irrational position to defend themselves; and that's why we have the concept of social etiquette to manage to dodge around how nonsensical the human condition is.

EDIT: Goodness me, whilst I was even typing this cloud went and proved my point. How woefully inadequate language is for expressing ourselves. :\

English is not my first language, I sorta lost myself here. I said that I'm not taking offence or anything some posts ago, care to explain it better please?

EDIT I sorta maybe kinda understood it, you're saying that I'm refusing to accept that I'm in the wrong and I'm making up reasons to defend my position right? I'm honestly still not sure.

If this is the case, I said twice in this thread that I'm aware that I'm probably tackling the game in the least efficient way and LTCing is the most skillful and efficient way to handle it, not even subtly, I flat out said it without thinking twice. How does that make me defensive? Just because I said (in the first page) the way I was going to tackle the game and later on that I wasn't going to follow advice that didn't meet those requirements? I think I'm entitled in choosing my own restrictions, heck, even you said it's not a big deal training one unit too many.

Edited August 28, 2014 by cloudropis

[Irysa]

I'm going to try to put this as politely as I can, but it will probably come off as condescending regardless.

The advice given by the more experienced players here is demonstrably effective at reducing difficulty. When you make responses in the general vein of "I'd rather use more units to be on the safe side" you are actually being very irrational; you are asserting that your viewpoint is somehow more insightful than theirs. Then you're picking out a viewpoint that agrees with you and using it to support your position. In basic psych, this is called a defence mechanism.

Even if you think you aren't taking "offence" to it, our brains are basically programmed to reduce stress and anxiety in ways that quite literally distort reality. If you don't believe me then so be it.

[cloudropis]

I'm going to try to put this as politely as I can, but it will probably come off as condescending regardless.

The advice given by the more experienced players here is demonstrably effective at reducing difficulty. When you make responses in the general vein of "I'd rather use more units to be on the safe side" you are actually being very irrational; you are asserting that your viewpoint is somehow more insightful than theirs. Then you're picking out a viewpoint that agrees with you and using it to support your position. In basic psych, this is called a defence mechanism.

Even if you think you aren't taking "offence" to it, our brains are basically programmed to reduce stress and anxiety in ways that quite literally distort reality. If you don't believe me then so be it.

I admit I was being irrational with the "more units" deal. Or more precisely, didn't really know what I was talking about. It's just, when I think about stuff like 3-13, 4-4, 4-4 swarms of pissed off enemies come to mind and tackling them all with very few characters seems... Odd. I'm actually pretty curious on how 3-6 will play out, because it's easy for the laguz to attack units on multiple fronts. I never said it was the right way or anything, aside for 1-6-2 (and I'd really want to know how 2 turning the map missing exp, a red gem and a master crown is that efficient, I'd really like an answer about this), I just said that I'm not following some tips because they don't fit my playstyle. That's all.

And no I'm pretty sure I know what my brain thinks, I always hated the kind of people you're talking about and I'm sure as hell not one of them. I never claimed my way was better than anyone else but for 1-6-2, and I'm open to discussion about that.

[Irysa]

I was going to highlight some of your other concerns about the psychology stuff I mentioned, but I decided it's too off topic. I've dragged this thing off the subject matter enough as it is, I just wanted to try to stop a really pointless argument in the first place. All I'm going to say on this front is that there is more to how you respond and react to stimulus in your life than what you think there is.

It's just, when I think about stuff like 3-13, 4-4, 4-4 swarms of pissed off enemies come to mind and tackling them all with very few characters seems... Odd. I'm actually pretty curious on how 3-6 will play out, because it's easy for the laguz to attack units on multiple fronts.

I just said that I'm not following some tips because they don't fit my playstyle. That's all.

For the most part, you can simply smartly position a few units who are strong enough to survive an onslaught of enemies within the rout maps of this game. They are actually much harder when you have a lot of okayish units and are trying to make sure everyone gets EXP instead of simply throwing a god of death at enemies.

Now having said that, I totally understand why you wouldn't want to do that. I'm trying to figure out a good way of avoiding it in FE13 Lunatic, for no good reason other than my own personal wish fufillment. As is always the case, a misunderstanding occured because you wanted advice on how to beat the game with your own personal preferences in mind, and your disregard for sound advice for irrational reasons caused some conflict. That is why dondon said you should have been more clear from the beginning, this entire argument began because you attempted to defend some notion of superiority in your preferences towards demonstrably better players.

and I'd really want to know how 2 turning the map missing exp, a red gem and a master crown is that efficient, I'd really like an answer about this

Opportunity cost.

[CT075]

I never said it was the right way or anything, aside for 1-6-2 (and I'd really want to know how 2 turning the map missing exp, a red gem and a master crown is that efficient, I'd really like an answer about this)

the red gem doesn't matter because the DB is swimming in money

the exp you'll gain is worth maybe +3 or 4 worth of stats spread over your entire team depending on how many units you're using (as well as not being distributed optimally)

the master crown is the only thing that gives any worthwhile return, and in general i'm having trouble visualizing a scenario in which the master crown will make enough of a difference to save you the headache it took to clear the map the long way in the first place

[PKL]

I was going to highlight some of your other concerns about the psychology stuff I mentioned, but I decided it's too off topic. I've dragged this thing off the subject matter enough as it is, I just wanted to try to stop a really pointless argument in the first place. All I'm going to say on this front is that there is more to how you respond and react to stimulus in your life than what you think there is.

For the most part, you can simply smartly position a few units who are strong enough to survive an onslaught of enemies within the rout maps of this game. They are actually much harder when you have a lot of okayish units and are trying to make sure everyone gets EXP instead of simply throwing a god of death at enemies.

Now having said that, I totally understand why you wouldn't want to do that. I'm trying to figure out a good way of avoiding it in FE13 Lunatic, for no good reason other than my own personal wish fufillment. As is always the case, a misunderstanding occured because you wanted advice on how to beat the game with your own personal preferences in mind, and your disregard for sound advice for irrational reasons caused some conflict. That is why dondon said you should have been more clear from the beginning, this entire argument began because you attempted to defend some notion of superiority in your preferences towards demonstrably better players.

Opportunity cost.

I've done it. It's possible to tackle the game with a few pairs more than normal in Lunatic. I've managed to use max deployment for all of Lunatic before. I've also been able to do a draft for it, though my team was ill-suited to recruit

Tiki

right away due to units having no resistance (my pairs cant wall properly when the dark fliers start arriving) so I havent done

tiki's

paralogue yet.

Edited August 28, 2014 by PJSalt

[cloudropis]

the red gem doesn't matter because the DB is swimming in money

the exp you'll gain is worth maybe +3 or 4 worth of stats spread over your entire team depending on how many units you're using (as well as not being distributed optimally)

the master crown is the only thing that gives any worthwhile return, and in general i'm having trouble visualizing a scenario in which the master crown will make enough of a difference to save you the headache it took to clear the map the long way in the first place

I guess the Red Gem is supposed to go to the GM anyway, but yeah I can slightly understand a LTC scenario a little better now, thanks to Irysa too that made me notice the difference in BEXP. If most LTCer train just Jill and/or Nolan you have just the right amount of MCs in 1-5, and you can't sell them.