Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[BBM]

don't need to stop tunneling if I'm tunneling on scum #TheManixWay

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I still think scum Elie is unlikely. Why would Mitsuki out her buddy like that?

[Elieson]

oh my god i misread Kaoz's votals as 18 not 38 i'm dumb

[charlie_]

D1 I assumed he was trustworthy. I need to work with him to coordinate actions regardless, so I'm going to have a certain level of trust towards him, and based on Rein's report, it looks like Bear didn't lie about his action in terms of us coordinating anything. And I didn't think I was a nightkill target, but why should I out information needlessly?

You keep calling me and bear scum. Are you convinced that we're scum co-drivers? Night report not only proves that I'm not a standard driver, but also that anyone who targetted Psych/Refa got switched, which Bear and I targeted.

There's a difference between "outing information needlessly" and lying as town for no reason, so? And yeah I think you're both scummy, and I'm not gonna make any guesses on the entire scumteam yet? Also Prims has been going on about scum/scum neighbours forever and if he wanted to finally include them this is pretty much the perfect opportunity to do it.

@Weapons, Wasn't Mitsuki already outed herself? It could totally be wifom or something.

Half the game Need To Actually Vote.

[Refa]

If both of our roles were Scum Drivers, that would be kind of perfect.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Yeah but everything could be WIFOM. In this case, factors make it less likely; the outing was likely discussed and would be an extreme gamble, Elie reacted fairly to being outed, Mitsuki doesn't sound like she's doing anything devious, and Elie doesn't sound like he's dealing with something that backfired.

[charlie_]

Wouldn't Eli be at risk of Rein outing him anyway? If Rein had the full list of night actions from last night, Eli wouldn't be able to deny Mitsuki's claims as Rein would just call him out on it and he would be lynched right after Mitsuki. Having confirmed scum call you out is less damning than a universal townread exposing your lie.

[Elieson]

SB tell me the benefit of telling the truth about my role yesterday. I did what I felt was best for the situation, by not putting out the entire driver scenario for whatever antitown wanted to do. Scum could easily break me+bear by kiling one of us or hooking one of us or redirecting one of us. Rather than give them options I claimed the whole thing myself.

Don't like it? It's already done, and now, clearly proven.

Also Prims has talks about scumscum neighbors for a while now? Why are you so sure he put it in this game. The last thing I would do as a host is put in a role that I discuss with other potential players. And even if he did, what benefit is there in even outing the neighbor part if we are same aligned. And if we are cult/mafia aligned, then cult having half of a drive that they can't directly control is pretty tough to overcome.

The amount of Rolespec here is astounding, and it honestly feels like you're more ticked off that I lied about my claim in d1 than you are confident about scumreading me for play alone. It also feels like you're grasping for reasons to actually find me scummy, using my d1 claim as a foundation.

This goes to anyone, especially SB and BBM. What's actually scummy about me claiming the way I did? Are bear and I same-aligned? If not, which of us is which? With bear and I verifying our conversations and reveals, where's the scum intent in it? What harm comes to town based on our play?

Also now that I know phase is only half through, I'm happy with my vote on Shinori

[Percivalé]

elie why do you think shinori is scum (I don't think you ever answered this)

you acted like you weren't happy with your vote when you discovered the phase was only half-over but now you say you are??

[Percivalé]

Also I seriously don't think Bear and Elie would both be scum that doesn't make any sense......................I can see one of them being scum but not both??

[Elieson]

I want better justification for why he hooked you aside from Meta. At first it was for consolidation but now I'd like an answer

[Percivalé]

Me too v:

but shinori said he'd be ~busy~ all weekend

[eclipse]

Eclipse what? I said I don't know what happens if bear dies, and then I said I was given no info by the mods as to if my role changes if bear dies/is culted. How is that inconsistent?

If you can't be bothered to reread those two quotes you made, complete with the time stamps, and try to figure out how I came to that conclusion, I have nothing more to say.

Something about Elie is that he said he was nullish on bear yesterday and suddenly today he's deftown? Talking myself more into an Elie lynch, but again ARE WE LYNCHING ELIE AS CULT OR SCUM?

I'm lynching him as anti-town, and I don't care which anti-town it is.

WHY DO YOU THINK I'M SCUM

wwWHYYYYYyYYYY DO MY ACTIONS IN THIS GAME MAKE SENSE AS SCUM

Counterpoint: Choral Mafia V

I still think scum Elie is unlikely. Why would Mitsuki out her buddy like that?

Screw associative reads, I'm going with Elieson's own actions.

Now have a slight scumread on Weapons, because at this point, it doesn't matter which anti-town is lynched. Rest of you that said something since I last posted are somewhere between null/town. Vote staying put.

And with that, clipsey out.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

^would OMGUS, but already scumreading the slot

It's not like I'm saying I don't want to lynch cult. I'm saying I think there's good evidence that scum Elie doesn't make sense when people are voting Elie for that reason. Things should make sense in the grand scheme of things.

[Elieson]

I can't tell the difference between "my rolepm doesn't say what happens if X occurs" and "I don't know what happens if X occurs, I'll ask mods". Eclipse, I've been on the block for two straight day phases; can you be more blunt with your explanations please?

[Elieson]

Perhaps it's one of those "when one codriver dies the other becomes full driver".

As far as I'm told, it's not that way

All I'm told is that whoever "Refa" targets gets driven with whoever I target. Nothing is stated about what happens if/when one of us is hooked/killed/X'd/Y'd/Z'd.

Also Elieson, I'm kind of curious about this. You don't have to answer if you think it'll screw over town or whatever, but what happens if one of the drivers gets culted (and presumably vanillized) but is still alive? Will the other driver just function as a one sided redirect?

I'll have to interrogate Paperprims about that, because I have 0 info about what happens if one of us is culted (or killed, for that matter)

All I'm told is that whoever "Refa" targets gets driven with whoever I target. Nothing is stated about what happens if/when one of us is hooked/killed/X'd/Y'd/Z'd.

---

Please, read these in succession, as i cut out all the other stuff. Where's the contradiction or whatever it is here? If you really interpret my responses to these questions as different, then explain why.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

And FTR, I can buy cult Elie, but other reads take priority and I don't know how to culthunt. I'd be willing to bet cult is fairly limited too.

[Elieson]

Me too v:

but shinori said he'd be ~busy~ all weekend

If he doesn't respond in a timely manner, I'll place my vote somewhere more deserving; Shinori hooking you just doesn't make sense unless he's so confident about his Meta read that he's willing to take the gamble.

[Elieson]

And FTR, I can buy cult Elie, but other reads take priority and I don't know how to culthunt. I'd be willing to bet cult is fairly limited too.

Assuming there's a Cultproof player and a "might-as-well-be" cultproof player, and however many scum that we're pretty much assuming are cultproof, that's about what, 1/3 of the playerbase that can't even be affected? I'd be more convinced that cult has something better up their sleeve than a half-driver role (even in combination with two or three other roles).

Also, if I'm cult, why'd I target Psych again?

[Refa]

OK, this probably seems really lazy considering I myself have fuck all for scumreads, but I really don't think Elieson is scum. Just something about his tone and his insistence to vote Shinori over someone like me, who is a much more likely lynch candidate.

[Refa]

Also don't like how eclipse is basically policy lynching Elieson at this point. Like I can get why that bothers you, but why not address the other cases on Elieson while you're at it? Feeling better about this.

##Vote: eclipse

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Sheeping my scumread.

##Unvote, ##Vote: eclipse

[BBM]

I agree that Shinori's reasoning for hooking Via was shit but I don't want to lynch him on that, and also it's pretty bad that 2/3rd through the day, this is Elie's strongest scumread- he's trying to pass it off as UNDER THE CRUNCH but if you look at his posts today it's actually pretty much the only scumhunting he's done

Additionally, Elie is hard strawmanning my arguments because he keeps asking like "WHAT WAS SO SCUMMY ABOUT THE WAY I CLAIMED MY ROLE" when that's like 1% of my case. He ignores all the stuff that I was voting him for yesterday before the claim, ignores the fact that he called out Mitsuki's rolespec only to dismiss it not long after and then defend her when she was the largest wagon with time winding down to deadline, and ignores the fact that his case on me was not only bad but highly hypocritical and selective- which is probably a sign of the fact that he was trying to look for NEW and ORIGINAL reasons to jump on my wagon when he voted me.

I can see the Eclipse case but I didn't really see any problems with Boron and I think Elie is scummy, so I don't particularly think it's correct.

[Psych]

I think Elieson's explanation of himself is actually good enough for me, but I don't really know who we should lynch instead of him since I don't understand where these eclipse votes are coming from.

vote bizz guys

you know I haven't heard from Iris in a while and it feels like she's slipping into the background, and ##unvote, vote Iris

Idk guys I really don't like turbo lynches and I'd rather lynch elite or blitz (except not anymore since that role claim )

I'll consolidate though but if you guys want to lynch elie instead I'll switch again


##}unvote
##vote: marth
I'm on phone and at dinner will check in an hour

she also seemed to jump on marth pretty easy but I might need to check her iso for mitsuki interactions

[Psych]

Iris has like 2 posts today with basically no content. She also seems to mostly post just if she's reading and about her shoddy activity, BFOTD, but it's not sitting well with me and reads as lurking yet people seem to be excusing her and she's flying under the radar

Eury I thought you said you weren't going to do those anymore.

Agreed, 100%. IDK how I feel about the BBM roleclaim and outing his target because roleblockers and so many things could go wrong?? Just saying. BBM pretty much summarized how I feel about Elie's claim.

From a quick skim read, Mitsuki's new posts seem to be pretty meh and Elieson's are improving, but I need to reread them before (or if) I change my stance on anything.

Beli makes me want to but would not lynch, since bad logic =/= scum. He reminds me of FFM in that regard.

this post also stuck out to me but now I can't put my finger on why