Qprogue Mafia - Game Over

[Zkirsche]

I'm ok for a hammer, it might even bring phase end to a more reasonable time for me/Sb/Shin.

[MancerNecro]

I don't like Marth's claim when compared to eclipse's claim. eclipse claimed her Holy role could be bad while Marth's role doesn't really have any role that is detrimental to town.

I don't see why Marth has to ask about how town non-elementals flip if he really is town. Also, I don't understand why he did not claim non-elemental too in day 1 when Elieson and BBM claimed non-elemental. I also don't see why town would have four non-elementals so at least one or two of these claimed non-elementals should be town.

Also, I doubt town will have two JoaTs when one has abilities that overshadow the other's in terms of power. I'd believe it if both has abilities that are inherently weak (and as weak as each other's) however that is not the case now.

That and my earlier suspicion about your target. You might have a track but you sort of have a safeguard as well so... I don't know. I don't claim to know how to use roles properly.

@eclipse: Poly has no role last night. My role and his has the same element and his role is useless without mine anyway. If anyone catches Poly visiting anyone last night then he's definitely scum otherwise I don't want a Poly lynch today.

I can hammer if we decide we no longer need any discussion for the day.

[MancerNecro]

I don't see why Marth has to ask about how town non-elementals flip if he really is town. Also, I don't understand why he did not claim non-elemental too in day 1 when Elieson and BBM claimed non-elemental. I also don't see why town would have four non-elementals so at least one or two of these claimed non-elementals should be town scum.

Fixed.

[BBM]

We have less than an hour left and Marth is at L-1. Is anyone here to hammer?

[Xinnidy]

ugh wednesday is a horrible day why did I choose this class schedule.

I'm here if needed but my vote is already on marth. :/

I'm happier with my vote where it is thanks to the claim, I'm going to trust eclipse and I don't think Marth's different roles are very indicative of alignment (except the whole infinite shot thing, which if I'm not wrong makes it much stronger than eclipse, also Rolename cop seems pretty suspect).

Shin confirmed my fears about his role, which is very concerning, BUT:

##Select: Archer

I'm gambling a little with what I think I picked up.

Prims votals please.

[BBM]

and right shit I forgot about the elements; dunno where we are on picking a second one

[MancerNecro]

If he's at L-1, ##Unvote: Belisarius, ##Vote: Bluedoom.

I wanted to wait for an actual votals first though.

[Prims]

Day 2.5 Votals

Bluedoom (5) - Belisarius, Xinnidy, eclipse, BBM, kirsche, MancerNecro (L-1)

Belisarius (2) - Bluedoom, Burakkuhoku

Shin (2) - Refa, SB.

Burakkuhoku (1) - Shin

Not Voting (1) - kirsche

Class Selection

Archer (5) - kirsche, MancerNecro, Burakkuhoku, Belisarius, Xinnidy

Assassin (2) - eclipse, Bluedoom

Cleric (1) - SB., Refa

Viking (2) - Belisarius, BBM

Indecisive (1): Shin

34 minutes left in the day.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Prims

[Prims]

nvm kirsche voted so that's hammer

[MancerNecro]

If Bluedoom is town, just nightkill me already. All these scum reads of mine that flips or claims town means I'm obsolete now..... *sigh*

[Prims]

Night 2

Bluedoom (6) - Belisarius, Xinnidy, eclipse, BBM, kirsche, MancerNecro (Lynch!)

Belisarius (2) - Bluedoom, Burakkuhoku

Shin (2) - Refa, SB.

Burakkuhoku (1) - Shin

Not Voting (0) - None

Class Selection

Archer (5) - kirsche, MancerNecro, Burakkuhoku, Belisarius, Xinnidy (Deadlined!)

Assassin (2) - eclipse, Bluedoom

Cleric (2) - SB., Refa

Viking (2) - Belisarius, BBM

Indecisive (1): Shin

---

vweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoop

Bluedoom - ra'am - Mafia Wind Disabler / Bookie / Forecaster - lynched Day 2

It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to send in your night actions. Town's classes for tonight and tomorrow are Fighter and Archer, enabling fire and wind-elemental abilities.

Alive: (10)

- BBM

- Belisarius

- Burakkuhoku (Polydeuces)

- eclipse

- kirsche

- MancerNecro

- Quote (Viata) SB.

- Refa

- Shin

- Xinnidy

Not Alive: (4)

- Sara. (Elieson) - into the battlefield, Town Element Swapper, lynched Day 1

- NekoRex & Randa - INSOMNIA, Traveler, killed Night 1

- Rapier - Pharaoh, Town Earth Jailkeeper, killed Day 2

- Bluedoom - ra'am, Mafia Wind Disabler / Bookie / Forecaster, lynched Day 2

Edited September 18, 2014 by Prims

[Prims]

Day 3

Eventually kirsche stopped thinking altogether.

kirsche - Hypersonik - Town Wind Cop - killed Night 2

In other news:

- A set of footprints reveals that Polydeuces didn't go anywhere last night.

- A giant rock blocks the path to Xinnidy! She may not be targeted by any action until town removes the rock by picking the Knight class.

It is now Day 3. You have 72 hours to decide on a lynch. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to hammer. Town's classes for today are Archer and Fighter, enabling fire and wind-elemental abilities. Remember to vote on classes for the next two phases as well!

Alive: (9)

- BBM

- Belisarius

- Burakkuhoku (Polydeuces)

- eclipse

- MancerNecro

- Quote (Viata) SB.

- Refa

- Shin

- Xinnidy

Not Alive: (5)

- Sara. (Elieson) - into the battlefield, Town Element Swapper, lynched Day 1

- NekoRex & Randa - INSOMNIA, Traveler, killed Night 1

- Rapier - Pharaoh, Town Earth Jailkeeper, killed Day 2

- Bluedoom - ra'am, Mafia Wind Disabler / Bookie / Forecaster, lynched Day 2

- kirsche - Hypersonik, Town Wind Cop, killed Night 2

[MancerNecro]

Great, this flip ruins that post I had planned out for day 3.

[MRDRHAWK]

Yeah whee I did nothing last night because we don't pick Dark

##Select: Fighter

Assuming Xin can keep vigging as long as we vote Fighter in continually here

Now to read the thread for a change

[MancerNecro]

We should definitely ##Select: Assassin today. With the disabler dead and me not being disablled anymore, I think it is time to put my role to the test.

Fire: Public Tracker

Earth: Voyeur

Wind: Safeguard

Water: Roleblocker

Holy: I can't be the one to hammer

Darkness: Rolename cop (yeah fuck this. I don't even think its useful)

I'd think that Bluedoom wouldn't claim these roles unless it was possible for him to prove it later on since we can otherwise catch him out on the JoaT claim so scum might still have a roleblocker, role cop, safeguard and voyeur. Doesn't tell us how many scum there are since Marth himself has multiple roles so the other scum could have multiple roles as well.

If the forecaster is the public tracker, then it means scum can use more than one of their abilities each night (because of the disable on me from n1).

ISOing Bluedoom makes me inclined to believe that the players he scum read are not mafia. This includes kirsche, Randa, Rapier, Poly, Shin and Bellysaurus (as much as I don't really want to admit that he might not be scum).

Regarding Randa: I assume that Marth might have thought he was town and not ITP either.

Marth has some exchanges with BBM and says he doesn't like what BBM is doing but he never commits to that read so I am inclined to ##Vote: BBM right now.

As has been proven, Marth tried to say that I am obvious town and thus, coast along using me. I think that some of the other players who he thinks are town could be town players that he's trying to tag along and coast to. In particular, eclipse and Elieson (yeah he's lynched but whatever) takes my interest.

Willing to bet that Refa might be scum fakeclaiming vengeful to avoid being lynched given how Marth waffled on Refa a lot as with Bellysaurus. There's also the fact that Refa literally found Marth townie at so many parts of the game.

Levity/SB is scummy to me too. I've elaborated on Levity already. I don't really like SB becauee he seems to just be coasting along with the town's reads and wagons as well as doing random "I might have an idea about the public tracker but I'm not elaborating on it" and "vote Holy, my role is Holy" throughout day 2 that doesn't really contribute much.

I think Xinnidy should shoot players within the first 24 hours of this phase. The information will be really helpful to town. Do not hold your dayvig until the last 24 hours of the day phase to use please.

Most likely scum: BBM > SB

Might be scum: Refa

[MancerNecro]

Yeah whee I did nothing last night because we don't pick Dark

##Select: Fighter

Assuming Xin can keep vigging as long as we vote Fighter in continually here

Now to read the thread for a change

Right, we should definitely hammer in Fighter first then vote for Assassin: ##Unselect: Assassin, ##Select: Fighter

[MancerNecro]

Xinnidy just shoot your top scum read once you are online.

[eclipse]

Yeah, Mancer, I'm totally mafia, after being cleared by the cop AND counter-claiming Marth so that he'd be lynched. ;/

That being said. . .I have no objections to Fire/Dark, because Houndoom is cool.

##Vote: Fighter

Next up. . .did some pseudo-analysis based off of claimed elements. Either there's literally no other town Holy role in the game besides mine, the other players who claimed a single element are hiding something, or SB is town. Given what he said in regards to Marth's lynch, I'm leaning towards SB being town (element spec, get at me). Tonight's results were pretty unhelpful, so no lynches based off of that.

I'm getting the weirdest feelings from BBM (sometimes, he strikes me as obvtown, othertimes he strikes me as hesitant, and it is seriously screwing with my head), I have to guess at what Beli's reads are (besides Marth, who is already dead), and Refa's got BBM's apprehensiveness x5. I don't like Mancer's content so far - it's beginning to read like paranoia ("might be scum", on a third of the living players?), and after the events of D2, it's really odd. Still haven't made up my mind on Shin - his questions regarding my D1 list don't sit right with me. Poly's pinging me weirdly - he shows up only to say a bit, and then leaves, plus the fact that he never answered my late D2 question. I should have a list of apprehensive reads, like, in the middle of D1, not now. ;/

##Vote: Beli

Best thing I've got so far.

[Refa]

I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day, so have an early post. Hopefully noone dies this night phase so that everything I say in this post is topical and not obselete at all when the day starts, man I hate it when that happens. That which does not kill us makes us stronger, after all.

[spoiler=BBM]

His first few posts are about the setup, so there's not much to glean from those (I mean uh...only SCUM SETUP SPECS totally caught Scum!BBM wrecked). People take issue with his vote on Rapier due to the scumslip, but they're wrong especially considering that his claimed role is non elemental. His first content post scumreads Marth for a lazy read on kirsche (which I agreed with myself, even if I didn't agree that it was scummy) and he complained about Elieson's lazy vote on Mancer. Not sure if it's scummy persay, but something that bothers me is that a good deal of his early content is talking about Rapier's scumslip. However, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have doubts about Rapier's scumslip as scum (especially considering Rapier flipped town); just reads as genuine to me. Also while I agree that he later tunneled on Elieson, he did have cases on a few other people (me, Shin, Rapier, Marthipan and...someone else I KNOW THERE WAS ONE MORE OK). And while he felt better about Marth at the time he was becoming a wagon, I can see his thought process there (wherein he's analyzing Marth's posts rather than just saying "hey, they look good") so it doesn't come across as a scum defense of their buddy. What does look like scum buddying is his late D1 posts regarding Marthipan, wherein he defends da prince (despite not having a town read on him) and says that he wouldn't consolidate on him. Moving on to D2, his Bizz/Poly cases D2 are pretty OK. Also considering his push on Shin (my #1...scumread), they're not scumbuddies. So yeah, overall I agree that his late D1 interactions with Marth (or more specifically, his defense of Marth) was scummy but everything else seems townie to me so YEAH.

[spoiler=Belisarius]

I agree that his early eclipse vote was bad; it was based purely on rolespec conjecture, not even rolespec. However, he did something very similar in SFMM4 (where he was town) so it doesn't really bother me. Him only casing the biggest wagons is annoying in that its hard to tell what exactly he thinks of the other players, but it also makes sense considering his belief that D1 is an extended RVS phase (I'm with BBM on this one). Also he did vote Marthipan over Elieson which doesn't make sense for him to do as scum considering both of those players' alignments. I don't really get his scumreads on eclipse and Marth (at the time shut up) but everything else is fine. His replies posts are OK on first glance...honestly I skimmed them because I'm in a hurry! His later reads posts are much clearer and well...better, so I'm pretty cool with those. Also keep in mind that he was one of the people who made the Marth wagon viable in the first place. So yeah, that is an associative reads thing that makes me PRETTY CONFIDENT that he's town. His scumread on me is still lame, though. :>

[spoiler=eclipse]

OK, I'm running out of time so I'm not going to ISO people who I think are obvious town at the moment (I'll get to it later just to read through their content and be thorough, but yeah busy). eclipse's content was pretty OK and whatever, but she's obviously town because of her CCing Marth's JoaT claim (which would be a HORRIBLE move as a scumbuddy even if there were 2 scum JoaT's because then there could be a town JoaT who'd CC BOTH OF THEM and wreck scum).

[spoiler=kirsche]

People harped on kirsche for his earlier comment ("Nah I mean waste half the day assuming Rapier is scum when he isn't.") but it doesn't really ping me even after Rapier did flip town (hypotheticals people, learn 'em). I don't remember this pinging me before, but looking back his Mancer case is actually pretty bad. Like Mancer had a lot of posts at that point, so making a vote based on (an admittedly lame vote on him) is pretty darn scummy. He makes a lot of comments on other players in his next few posts but doesn't come to any conclusions on any of them (Mancer notwithstanding). Also despite making a lot of posts and obviously being in the thread, he hasn't really done all that much (which definitely bothers me considering kirsche's normal playstyle). He scumreads Marth out of nowhere but doesn't exactly say why and Marth is still low on his scum priorities list, which reads as distancing to me. His first quote block was pretty good though (again, I skimmed but he did actually case people and did more than what he was doing previously). D2 he's basically done nothing except sheeping which is pretty bad (I don't think the sheeping itself is bad but the lack of outputting any significant content is). I dunno, I was townreading him for most of the game, but when I actually bothered to ISO him he's looking a lot worse than I originally assumed. Would be OK with lynching.

[spoiler=Polydeuces]

There's not really much to his early content except defending himself, which isn't scummy but it is hard to get a read off of. Also him voting Mancer to crumb his role doesn't make sense to me. Earlier I said that it probably wouldn't come from Scum!Poly, but I'm doubting that read now. Also reading through his ISO, he has far less content than I assumed he had. Like besides his reasoning for thinking Rapier scumslipped (which was townie, he'd be more likely to just sheep others' reasoning as scum), he didn't really do anything except sheep kirsche's Wind vote and talk about Mancer (later on he posts one off comments about eclipse and Marth, but they're non committal and don't really mean much). His neighbor claim was pretty townie though (there's really no reason for him to have done it as scum), which makes me less confident about my read overall. Not sure how I feel about his Marth case honestly. On one hand CASING SCUM is always good, but on another the read just complains that Marth's content has a lot of filler and it just seems very surface level to me. Also his Beli vote at the end was bad. Meh, overall Poly does done some very townie things (his reasoning for Rapier's scumslip, his claim, casing Marth) and some very scummy things (his early content, dropping his case on Marth, not doing much on D2) which makes him pretty hard to read. Blah.

[spoiler=Quote/SB]

Again, not much to glean from their early content besides a VOTE FOR HOLY. Their first reads post is pretty OK, even if it is too brief (I know brevity is the soul of wit but come on); brief is different from surface level in one of them is hard to read into and one of them is actually scummy. Their second reads post is pretty legit though, and while I disagree with one of their main suspicions (BBM), I can get behind the rest of it. Next reads post after that is fine probably, NGL I skimmed through it too RUSH HOUR. Their Elie defense comes across as townie rather than scum trying to stay off of a town wagon so yeah. None of their D2 content stands out to me though, for better or worse (although I'm inclined to agree with...BBM, I think that it's because they were busy, which explains the sub out). SB is SCUMMY AS FUCK FOR BEING SCUM AND WINNING SFMM4...I mean uh...*ahem*. I feel the same way about his BBM case as I do about Quote's (read above). His reads post is good, but it kind of bothers me. OK, let me try to clarify. His points are good and I agree with most of them, but it's just the way they're written (dunno how to describe it). I don't like how he dropped his BBM suspicion to vote for Marth. FROM ANYONE ELSE BUT SB THIS WOULD BE OBVIOUS TOWN AS FUCK, but he did the exact same thing in SFMM4 (with me and Elieson) which caused me to have doubts on his alignment for the whole game before throwing. At the same time, his Shin case was legit and even for SB, bussing two scumbuddies in the same day is a bit much (this is a roundabout way of saying that I don't believe he and Shin are scumbuddies). So overall everything points to SB being town, but I just have a gut feeling that's bothering me. Probably wouldn't vote but would look into for later days.

[spoiler=Refa]

Wonderful dude, I'd marry him. Would be OK with turbolynching.

[spoiler=Shin]

Shin looks worse after Rapier's flip. Basically he WAS scumreading the dude yesterday, but dismissed his own read today because shut up (seriously, just read the next sentence). I can get the reasoning but you didn't seem opposed to him getting lynched or vigged at all. If you really thought he was bad town, why didn't you put more effort into defending him? I don't think his claim is townie because 1) his reasons for targeting Xinny yesterday of all people is incredibly flimsy and 2) his role's interactions with Xinny's seem broken as all hell get out (like I imagine that Prims would have thought of a scenario like this). I can't see town having THIS much protection, even with a Mafia Strongman running around (imagine a scenario in which we lynched said Strongman on D1, now think of how fucked scum would be there); also Xinny brought up a good point that his role was infinitely stronger than Rapier's (like I can see them coexisting, but not with my role *shrugs*). Also I agree with whatever people said about his reaction test. I don't care if he didn't get anything out of it, but it bothers me that he had to be prodded into saying that instead of just mentioning it when he unvoted me (actually I don't get why he'd make an empty unvote if he didn't get anything out of his prod vote on me so that's another thing).

I already ISO'd Shin, so fuck if I'm going to do it again. My tl,dr; is that his Day 1 content was good (like I had some issues with his earlier posts but his explanations for them were townie), and then he DROPPED THE (SCUM) BALL on D2 and most of my issues with it are listed above. As far as associative reads with Marthipan are concerned, uh... I don't...really have any. Like he has issues with Marth and then he doesn't and then he thinks Marth is town but he'd be OK with him getting lynched and it's all just really confusing.

[spoiler=Xinnidy]

The only way Xinny could be scum with her role is if there is a 2-man scumteam (ala FE6 Mafia)...it's possible considering how powerful Marth's role was (assuming he was telling the truth about his JoaT thing which he may not have been...but there was a Public Tracker so IDK) but not something I'd seriously consider at the moment. Another person I'll ISO later but NOT NOW I'M BUSY.

The only other person besides Xinny/eclipse (who are both obvious town as far as I'm concerned) that I didn't ISO was Mancer. My general impression of his play thus far has been townie but that's still something I need to get done eventually.

Refa >>>>> Shin > kirsche >> Poly >> SB > BBM > Belisarius > eclipse = Xinnidy

Just pretend kirsche was never here.

[Refa]

Willing to bet that Refa might be scum fakeclaiming vengeful to avoid being lynched given how Marth waffled on Refa a lot as with Bellysaurus. There's also the fact that Refa literally found Marth townie at so many parts of the game.

Oh man, that's a brilliant idea. I'm totally going to do that when I roll scum except I just announced it to the world FUCKDAMMIT YOU HEARD NOTHING; anyways, would not mind a lynch on me if I could get to use my role. I don't remember Marthipan's read on me, but yes. I did think he was town. The only reason I was OK with his lynch at all was because eclipse and SB CC'd him and eclipse was a stronger townread than him...actually, I missed that in my ISO because I'm an idiot; SB is probably a stronger townread because of that. It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! Also would be cool with voting Assassin/Holy along with Fire.

##Vote: Shin

##Select: Fire

[BBM]

Requesting we choose Wind as our second element again); I can guarantee that it will allow me to do something more important than anything Mancer or Poly can with their Dark roles.

##Select: Fighter

I'm kind of curious about why Marth would target Poly with the public track yesterday. Poly claimed Neighbour and implied rather heavily that his role was dark-aligned, so it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to target Poly if he's town. I mean, I guess if he submit it when he still thought he could survive, he might have been trying to use it in a "town" way, but then why not target Beli? That would also be a town way to use it and would give more info to scum (again, if Beli is town).

This makes me feel that either Poly is scum and Marf was trying to give him towncred or Beli is scum, so Marth tracked Poly. Will read the two of them for Marth interactions tomorrow.

[MancerNecro]

I think that some of the other players who he thinks are town could be town players that he's trying to tag along and coast to. In particular, eclipse and Elieson (yeah he's lynched but whatever) takes my interest.

eclipse, I said you could be town, not scum.....

[MancerNecro]

I'm kind of curious about why Marth would target Poly with the public track yesterday. Poly claimed Neighbour and implied rather heavily that his role was dark-aligned, so it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to target Poly if he's town. I mean, I guess if he submit it when he still thought he could survive, he might have been trying to use it in a "town" way, but then why not target Beli? That would also be a town way to use it and would give more info to scum (again, if Beli is town).

This makes me feel that either Poly is scum and Marf was trying to give him towncred or Beli is scum, so Marth tracked Poly. Will read the two of them for Marth interactions tomorrow.

Hi BBM, you're scum.

What makes you think that Bluedoom was the public tracker? I asked Prims what forecaster was and he said he'd only flip role names and not what the role did.

[MancerNecro]

Sorry for spamming but I have to say this: I doubt BBM can be wind aligned.

We know that for the earth element, we have my neighbour role and Rapier's jailkeep. For dark, we have Poly and my shared dark role (not revealing what it is yet). For holy and fire, we only have one claim thus far.

I doubt that given how much we know about the roles that there will be a third town wind player (Poly's neighbour is town and is proven).

I think BBM is scum trying to get town to vote for a class that we don't have anymore.

Refa: Shin claimed omniguard and proved it, why are you voting him?

[eclipse]

eclipse, I said you could be town, not scum.....

That implies that I could be scum, as well. This makes no sense, given what's happened in the game so far.

I'm not liking BBM's claim. Why not do that thing earlier?