[Spoilers]SSB4 Leaks Discussion

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I've never played a Sonic game, but I agree. He has a lot of games on Nintendo consoles these days. It's almost as if he belonged to Nintendo rather than Sega.

Newcomers I like: Robin, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr., Rosalina

Newcomers I don't like: Lucina, Greninja

I'm neutral on everyone else. So I'm glad to see there are more newcomers I like than dislike. :)

AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE EXCITED FOR GRENINJA

Whenever I ask this I get ignored though so I guess that means I am

The one and only Greninja fan

[Quintessence]

10/10 to me, the sole inclusion of Shulk deserves it from my perspective, other additions like Rosalina, Little Mac and Robin are also keeping me excited and hyped. The rest is just a plus.

[Mighty Kamina]

10/10 to me, the sole inclusion of Shulk deserves it from my perspective, other additions like Rosalina, Little Mac and Robin are also keeping me excited and hyped. The rest is just a plus.

In terms of newcomers, Shulk was literally all I wanted. Mewtwo not coming back and Lucas, Wolf, and CO getting cut is why the roster is a 9/10 to me.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Shulk

[Anacybele]

AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE EXCITED FOR GRENINJA

Whenever I ask this I get ignored though so I guess that means I am

The one and only Greninja fan

That's odd, I thought I was the only one NOT excited for Greninja to some extent.

[Mighty Kamina]

That's odd, I thought I was the only one NOT excited for Greninja to some extent.

A lot of people wanted Mewtwo instead, myself included. Personally, I'm completely neutral to Greninja. The Kalos starters were all right. (Nothing will ever beat the Johto starters for me, and I didn't even play GSC growing up.)

[WIRE Shut]

Since we are giving scores this roster gets a No Mewtwo/10.

I really like Greninja but he doesn't seem like a staple character for Pokémons line up, also, did anybody want Bowser Jr? I mean, even Waluigy seems more interesting to me for another Mario newcomer.

[Anacybele]

Daisy, Rosalina, and Bowser Jr. were my most wanted Mario newcomers if there were any. So yeah, I kinda did want him if I didn't get Daisy. And I did get him. And Rosalina.

Bowser Jr. is a lot more interesting than Toad or Waluigi, imo. And unlike Waluigi he at least appears in the main series. >.>

[Fire Emblem Fan]

My roster thoughts:

Positives:

Robin, Lucina, Palutena, Duck Hunt Dog, Little Mac, Greninja, Shulk, Mii Fighters.

No newcomers I really dislike or wish weren't there, I'm neutral on all the newcomers I didn't list above.

Some of the alternate colors and costumes are cool!

New Final Smashes? Not for everyone, but that's okay.

Certain characters get buffs? Awesome.

Negatives:

Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Lucas...all cut. That's upsetting.

Lucina is a clone. I am excited for her and count her as a positive, but she's a clone. There was potential! Yeah yeah, I know, "she disguised herself as Marth, it makes sense!" True. But there was potential.

Dark Pit falls into the same boat. With Uprising...there was potential.

Lyn is still an Assist Trophy. I'm happy she's in the game in some form and I guess I never really expected her to be playable, but I still wish she was.

Not only does Golden Sun not have a playable character, but now it appears that Isaac isn't even an AT anymore! What?

Things that are neither positive or negative, but confusing to me:

Dr. Mario gets his own slot, but Alph doesn't? Okay...

Ridley and Mewtwo, two of the most requested characters ever, are not playable? Weird.

Overall:

Despite the negatives, I am very pleased. Two thumbs up.

[WIRE Shut]

Daisy, Rosalina, and Bowser Jr. were my most wanted Mario newcomers if there were any. So yeah, I kinda did want him if I didn't get Daisy. And I did get him. And Rosalina.

Bowser Jr. is a lot more interesting than Toad or Waluigi, imo. And unlike Waluigi he at least appears in the main series. >.>

Yeah I can see your point, he just looks like a cooler character, he just goes to the races and sport event, he doesn't care about no princess, he's just there for the gold, but since Bowser Jr. isn't just another clone he could be cool, didn't see much surprise or requests for him, probably because DHD was in the leak too.

[Phoenix Wright]

But Sonic is honestly the most worthy 3rd party character to be in multiple games. Dr.Mario probably was made at a point when they couldn't make any new characters left, but they still had time to make stuff before release. Also -1 for no Snake? Snake hasn't been on any Nintendo game (excluding Smash Bros) in ages. Him being a one time thing was basically inevitable.

i know, that's why i noted a different score with no biases regarding snake's exclusion.

sonic, along with mr. game and watch, were my least favorite characters to play as. so actually i don't want either of them, but g&w ain't goin' nowhere. another 3rd party character could have easily been included, though.

AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE EXCITED FOR GRENINJA

Whenever I ask this I get ignored though so I guess that means I am

The one and only Greninja fan

the problem for me is i'm just not all that excited for pokemon characters in general. but, greninja is the most interesting pokemon added in smash ever imo, so i am a little excited.

this place gives a lot of love to mewtwo, but i just don't get the appeal.

[Loki Laufeyson]

[spoiler=I share this opinion (large image post)]

/shrug cuz come on, you know youve been seeing that much salt.

I think everything looks pretty good so far. The possibility of DLC is an exciting one. Its just actually really hard to wait for the game's release out here now.

Duck Hunt Doge is one thing that really tipped the scales (hue) for my hype. I was hyped for Shulk in a huge way, hyped for that green and gold Robin, and man...over the moon for DHDoge.

[ClevelandSteve]

I'm fairly neutral about Greninja. I mean, I would've preferred Tyrantrum or Hawlucha as a Gen VI rep (there was guaranteed to be one, since Game Freak would obviously want Sakurai to advertise the latest Pokemon and they have a decent amount of say about what Sakurai does with their series), but neither of them are as important or popular as Greninja (though Sakurai didn't know Greninja would be popular when he picked it). And Greninja was the Gen VI rep I predicted, so yay for being right I guess. Personally, I would have dropped Lucario for Mewtwo.

I'm not the biggest fan of Bowser Jr. because of how annoying he was in Super Mario Sunshine, but I guess if Mario gets two newcomers (three if you count Dr. Mario's return) then Bowser Jr. is certainly deserving more deserving than say, Waluigi or Daisy (though I'd rather see Daisy upgraded to a Peach clone than give Dr. Mario is own slot), and the Koopalings as alts is a plus (though the nostalgia factor of seeing them would be more of a thing if Nintendo wasn't using the nostalgia of them so much right now).

The game isn't "ruined" by any means. I mean, I shouldn't complain too much when I got both of my top two most wanted newcomers in Shulk and Lucina (neither of whom I thought would be that likely going in). It just has its flaws and there's nothing wrong about pointing them out.

[Florete]

While I like Greninja and enjoyed playing him in the demo, I can understand why people don't like his inclusion. It's kind of like he was added to be "another Pokemon rep" rather than being added because he's actually got star power, like Mewtwo or Genesect or Zoroark, or is an important character either to Nintendo or his own franchise. This is especially helped by the fact that he was chosen not only before release, but on concept art alone. It's the same reason why I don't really like Sheik having her own slot; Sheik only made sense being playable at all as Zelda's transformation, and any fame she has today is purely because of inclusion in Smash Bros.

[Kiseki]

Roster gets an 8.5/10 from me. There's so much empty space near the bottom. I have no problems with the newcomers and clones, but I feel that the empty space in the bottom corners are just screaming "This is not the final roster". Of course, this will change if something were to happen that expands the roster to fill up that space. I'll still main Kirby like I did in Brawl, but I really want to try out Shulk and Greninja too.

I don't quite get the hate for Lucina and the other clones. We have yet to see a detailed play-by-play on how their movesets work. Considering that Marth has been severely nerfed, I think Lucina has potential to be a good viable option for tournament play. There's not really any point in hating a specific character slot when you can just wail on them when the game comes out.

I'm also okay with Ice Climbers' removal. Their game-breaking grab shenanigans always wrecked me in any of their appearences (Not to mention that the new engine would completely nerf them to as low as Kirby was in Melee). I'm still a little irked that Diddy Kong's banana peels weren't removed, but I'd rather not complain about it and respect Sakurai's decisions instead.

Even with all the leakage that I never really cared much about in the first place, I'm still hyped for this game. I'll gladly wait a whole month for the English release to roll by.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Melee's roster wasn't a perfect square either...

Edited September 14, 2014 by Kiseki

[kingddd]

The miifighter kirby is pretty cute.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

SSB4 is died for me after watching the finally character roster.

That Lucas and Snake are dropped is understandable and was expectable for me, although I loved using Snake in SSBB (my fave!).

Though replacing classic characters like Ice-Climbers by shitty fillers and/or clones like Bowser Jr., Dark Pit and Dr. Mario (who simply could be an alternative costume for the regular ones) is the worst strategy to improve the character roster.

About 80% of the newcomers are waste imo. They only fill the roster. Peach and Toad as a combo would work as well instead of Rosalina and Luma.

The only ones I really like are MegaMan, Robin, Paulutena and Little Mac.

I don't even know, who or what Duck Hunt is.

I think fans of the Mario-series wil be happy about the "spam" of Mario-characters.

And Roy is back... HOORAY

Sry for the harsh words, but the character choices in SSB4 disappointed me too much.

Edited September 12, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[TheWill]

You have no reason to apologize. There are many people upset over this roster and people trying to silence them is utterly ridiculous. A lot of people are hardcore raging that need to tone down, but it's the same on the other side people giving the roster 10 or 9 out of ten's cause 'muh favourite character!' got in, which is also ridiculous. A 10 would mean this is the best roster Nintendo has to offer, which is simply untrue in every sense of the word.

[Florete]

SSB4 is died for me after watching the finally character roster.

Replacing classic characters like Jigglypuff and villains like Ganondorf and Wolf by shitty clones like Bowser Jr., Dark Pit and Dr. Mario (who simply could be an alternative costume for the regular ones) is the worst strategy to improve a character roster.

...What?

Jigglypuff and Ganondorf are still in. Bowser Jr. is not a clone.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

...What?

Jigglypuff and Ganondorf are still in.

Are they unlockable? Didn't see them in the character roster.

If yes, I apologize for my wrong comment.

Edited September 12, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[Lord Raven]

You mean unlockable? Also yes.

[Randoman]

Gets mad at people saying good riddance to the IC
Does the exact same thing to Snake

Still as hypocritical as ever I see

I was addressing Burakkuhoku's reason for wanting the Ice Climbers gone, and not him wanting the Ice Climbers gone itself. I mean, PKL and Rehab used to talk about wanting the Ice Climbers gone quite a lot back then in the SSB4 thread, and I never got mad at them for it since their reasons were at least fair enough (finding them insanely cheap and annoying with their chain grabs). Though wanting a character gone because you don't like their playstyle is quite a ridiculous reason for wanting a character gone/cut (and in my previous post I even gave the example of it being ridiculous for regular Link to be cut because people don't like his playstyle and find him too weak).

I mean, do you see people wanting Ganondorf cut completely just because he barely uses any moves from the Zelda series? Or how about people wanting Wario cut because he barely has any moves from the Wario Land games? Movesets/playstyles can easily be changed around and modified so they fit better. I mean, Falco was changed quite heavily from Melee to Brawl, and Mr. Game & Watch was heavily improved from Melee to Brawl, so that shows that Sakurai can and is able to change/fix any characters if their playstyle has any problems or needs diversifying.

If Burakkuhoku gave different reasons that weren't as unreasonable for wanting the Ice Climbers gone (like them being way less iconic compared to the other retro playable Smash characters, them taking up way too much development time to program due to their duo mechanic, or even just him hating them as characters and feeling they barely contributed to Nintendo history), I would've just accepted him saying that and not even respond. But the fact that he gave a reason that I felt was completely ridiculous was what made me respond to his comment.

Comments regarding Snake are below the quotes, since they also pertain to Pheonix Wright and Guy.

but for of your main point, it is not 'ridiculous' to get upset at losing:

--my main in brawl

--one of my favorite fictional characters in one of my favorite vg series

i understand why he's not in it, but that doesn't mean i can't get upset about his exclusion.

He was my main too. In fact him being in Brawl got me interested in MGS and now the series is one of my favorites.

Also I found this http://mynintendonews.com/2014/03/14/kojima-wants-to-see-snake-return-to-super-smash-bros/

Fair enough. Losing a main or a favourite character of yours in a game (guest or not) is always quite saddening.

I'm just beyond fed up at the more rabid Snake fans since losing Snake is all they ever talk about online (they've flooded the GameFAQs Smash boards with Snake topics and flooded the SSB4 livestream asking/commenting about Snake's inclusion). I mean, it's almost as if Snake was the only reason they ever enjoyed the Smash Bros. series or played it. I mean, I didn't see this amount of fan outcry at Link never being in any of the Nintendo console Soul Calibur games after 2 or Banjo Kazooie being cut from Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing transformed. Them being disappointed? Fair enough (I really should've specified between "being disappointed" and "being rabid" about Snake's exclusion in my previous post better). But thinking it's "cutting Mega Man from Marvel vs. Capcom 3" level bad/unfair or thinking even cutting someone like Marth is more reasonable despite Snake being a guest? (Chiki the member from SF actually posted that one) That's way too extreme. And the fact that there's so many Snake fans doing this now doesn't help at all. Even the individual fanbases of the Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf are being much more mellow, level-headed, and not as vocal/rabid about their mains being cut compared to the Snake fanbase.

I know not all Snake fans/mainers are like this, but it's hard to not clump both the bad and good Snake fans together, especially after all the leaks deconfirming Snake resulting in the bad Snake fans just shoving Snake down everyone's throats (ugh, that sounds bad, but you get what I mean).

Edited September 12, 2014 by Randoman

[FrostyFireMage]

Positives with roster:

- Snake and IC getting cut. I didn't think either of them fit at all (he couldn't even use any knives/guns). DHD is also far better at representing the NES era IMO.

- Bowser Jr, Shulk, Villager, DHD, Megaman and Pac-Man all look really unique and fun to play as.

- Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZS Samus being individual characters.

Negatives with roster:

- Lucas being cut.

- Dark Pit and Dr. Mario being added. I can't help but feel there was a lot of bias in favor of Kid Icarus.

Overall I give the roster a 9/10.

[TheWill]

How do Ice Climbers not fit the 'Smash Bros' style? Out of all the reasons I've seen about not including them such as being hard to program, being hard to balance or hold toxic gameplay aspects, I don't see them not fitting Smash Bro's general 'cartoon-like' art style. Snake, I can understand not fitting the 'art' style, but Ice Climbers?

[FrostyFireMage]

I've always thought that the ICs felt out of place and gimmicky. It's more of a personal opinion than anything.

[Magical Glace]

Positive:

...Ness and Toon Link?

Lucina plays more like Old!Marth, because Marth himself was nerfed to heck.

DHD.

Snake gone.

Negative:

-Robin over Micaiah or Celica.

-Ike over... Someone I actually like or Chrom, despite my hate for him.

-Lucina isn't Seliph, Leif, Roy, or Eirika. Rather than two FE13 reps, a Marth clone could have been any of them.

-Lucas is gone.

In other words... Eh, I'll make do but FE was screwed up.