Ether Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 i meant that it could be used with contrary to act like agilty to outspeed faster stuff like scarfers Ah... well, it looks like it does, in fact, not learn curse, though sacrificing Serperior's bulk is probably not worth it for just a speed boost, especially since it's actually rather fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 i meant that it could be used with contrary to act like agilty to outspeed faster stuff like scarfers And lose DEF? That doesn't really look like a good idea IMO. That said, I don't really think the contrary set will be worse than the coil one. Right now, it's NU. Contrary Serperior is definitely something I see being at least RU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Ah... well, it looks like it does, in fact, not learn curse, though sacrificing Serperior's bulk is probably not worth it for just a speed boost, especially since it's actually rather fast. well that's a shame, both in the fact that my memory slipped and that he doesn't get it. the general idea i was having was being able to use modest for actual power after using leaf storm once or have the option to boost his speed and maybe snag the leaf storm boost if he gets the opportunity. but priority and other stuff does exist, so i didn't expect much to begin with. And lose DEF? That doesn't really look like a good idea IMO. That said, I don't really think the contrary set will be worse than the coil one. Right now, it's NU. Contrary Serperior is definitely something I see being at least RU. hence the "probably a terrible idea" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Contrary Serperior is going no higher than RU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I suppose it could go RU... I just have a hard time seeing it leaving NU when Lilligant is still there. They're both set-up sweepers with basically mono-grass coverage, but Lilligant hits harder unboosted, Quiver dance is overall a better setup move than contrary Leaf Storm, and Sleep Powder, while less accurate, offers a more crippling status than glare. Maybe I'm underestimating it but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) I suppose it could go RU... I just have a hard time seeing it leaving NU when Lilligant is still there. They're both set-up sweepers with basically mono-grass coverage, but Lilligant hits harder unboosted, Quiver dance is overall a better setup move than contrary Leaf Storm, and Sleep Powder, while less accurate, offers a more crippling status than glare. Maybe I'm underestimating it but... This is from Smogon: 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 52-61 (14.6 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Black Sludge recovery +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 260-307 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (high chance to 2HKO after SRs) 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 129-152 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 256-302 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garbodor: 113-133 (31 - 36.5%) -- 65.7% chance to 3HKO +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garbodor: 225-265 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 138-164 (32.1 - 38.2%) -- 95.1% chance to 3HKO +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 274-325 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 105-125 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 2.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 208-246 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 109-130 (32.6 - 38.9%) -- 7.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 218-257 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Nothing wants to switch in on Serperior, which can easily revenge kill something or get a boost from something that switches in, anyway. They tank the first hit, then possibly get KOed by the second. Edited December 20, 2014 by Z.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hmm, seems it does a bit more damage than I thought. Well, I guess we'll see what happens. Even if it does leave NU, I don't think it'll go too much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Like I said, I doubt it's going about RU. XD Edited December 20, 2014 by Z.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrusion Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Yeah, Guts AV with Adamant and SPDEF is pretty good. I run Drain Punch/Mach Punch/Ice Punch/Knock off on mine. I'd just have another thing to deal with fairies. Yeah, I was only considering Poison Jab because my friend was yelling at me on FB chat about how good Poison Jab is on Conk. Which, again, doesn't make sense to me if dealing with Fairies is the only argument. I was basically stuck on whether to use Fire Punch or Thunder Punch, since I was lacking coverage for Scizor, Mega Scizor, and Gyarados, but Drain Punch deals with them decently (from MY experience. EVERYONE PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REFUTE ME ANYTIME I OPEN MY MOUTH, I'd rather know that I'm wrong and learn from it) so whatever. Also, I've been switching between full investment in HP/Atk and full investment in Atk/Sp.Def, and I'm not sure which is better...? Pretty sure Mega Venusaur can take anything Greninja hits it with lol Also Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade are banned from UU. Yes, but a non-boosted Psycho Cut from Mega Gallade doesn't OHKO it either (not from my experience, at least. Choice Banded Brave Bird from Talonflame doesn't OHKO either, IIRC). It'll then proceed to use Sleep Powder for any switch-ins... Yeah that thing is no fun. The moment it turtles on the field unchecked, it immediately has the upper hand against me and I have to be very careful :( I've been using a slow Volt Switch early game with Lanturn and set-up+sweep, hoping I can bait it for a OHKO. I took the advice of someone on Reddit and changed Dark Pulse for Extrasensory for emergencies and that's helped me a lot. With that, I've never lost against another MVenu team so far, but I don't feel safe from it yet lol. Tips for dealing with this guy would be greatly appreciated. Also how common is a Nasty Plot Lucario? This thing took me by surprise and sweeped two of my pokes. I still managed to squeeze a win, but it was close. Speaking of viable or common sets, Cosmic Power+Stored Power Mega Lopunny seems to be a thing o.O I've run into more than 4 of them. My Unaware Clef had an amazing time though. Edited December 20, 2014 by intrusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) I'M JUST HERE TO SAY THAT I MISSED ROCK SLIDE FOUR TIMES IN ONE BATTLE. EDIT: I still won, but barely. That was really annoying. Edited December 20, 2014 by Fruity Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 So why is Wobbuffet so bad now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algae Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 So why is Wobbuffet so bad now? Metagame shift, I think? Its primary role isn't as valuable now, and it literally cannot do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Gothitelle outclasses it as a Shadow Tag user due to it not being offensive deadweight. Shadow Tag+Trick is really good. Going back to Serperior for a sec, I'm thinking standard set is going to be Leaf Storm/Giga Drain/HP Fire/(Knock Off or Glare). Leaf Storm's 8PP isn't enough for everything Serperior wants it to do (it's both primary STAB and the boosting move) and I think that necessitates a second STAB attack. If Serperior gets forced out with just Leaf Storm as its STAB, it's in trouble when it needs to set up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Are there any safe switch-ins vs. a Mega Bunny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Granbull's a pretty good check to Mega Lopunny. And holy fuck I just got Contrary Snivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Granbull's a pretty good check to Mega Lopunny. And holy fuck I just got Contrary Snivy. Anything else good for checking it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 It has perfect neutral coverage due to Scrappy, so...things like Granbull with Intimidate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 It has perfect neutral coverage due to Scrappy, so...things like Granbull with Intimidate? ...Yeah, I was afraid of that. I guess that coverage is what got it banhammered from UU to begin with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yeah, it's a beast. Same with Mega Gallade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) While I can't exactly think of checks/counters to it, Mega Luponny doesn't really seem broken on OU, or even worthy the mega slot, TBH. It never gave me trouble, but IDK, I might have only played against mediocre players using it. Edited December 21, 2014 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I haven't played showdown or battled in a while, but by looking at the standard M-Lopunny set on Smogon, it seems like Landorus-T and Gliscor walls it if it's lacking Ice Punch and Bulky-DD Gyarados does a pretty good job if it doesn't carry Thunder Punch. And in both case, Defensive regular Slowbro is 4HKOed by Return and Thunder Punch, same with Defensive Mega Venusaur which has 22.4 chances of being 3HKOed by Return. Zapdos and Physically Skarmory can also take 3 hits from its most powerful move (HJK or Return) and threaten it back. Then again, this only applies to this M-Lopunny set: Lopunny @ Lopunnyite EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - High Jump Kick - Return - Healing Wish - Ice Punch Maybe there's a more popular one that I'm not aware exist which can go around what I listed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Serperior is like the best Pokemon ever, but I love Lilligant too... Anyway, I'm hoping the Blastoise I've been working on for a week will be good here. I'm still breeding, but when it's ready, I'm thinking Water Pulse, Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, and Dragon Pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 OU is putting Greninja on a suspect test. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-testing-round-1-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.3525033/ Not quite sure what my opinion is. He's definitely the best Pokemon in OU but I don't know if it's by a large enough margin to be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 I don't think Greninja will do all that well in Ubers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I don't think Greninja will do all that well in Ubers. Well that's punishment for doing too well in OU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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