Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) OU is putting Greninja on a suspect test. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-testing-round-1-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.3525033/ Not quite sure what my opinion is. He's definitely the best Pokemon in OU but I don't know if it's by a large enough margin to be broken. Huh. I was wondering what was next up for suspect testing. Why am I not surprised it's Greninja...? Also, A+ thread title. Edited December 24, 2014 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I don't want greninja banned =( But w/e, if smogon finds it broken, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 The metagame centers too much on Greninja. If you have to run specific checks and counters just for it, something's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) The metagame centers too much on Greninja. If you have to run specific checks and counters just for it, something's wrong. And even then, said checks (Greninja has no true counters) could still get trounced anyway depending on what it carries. The only real check I can think of is Porygon2, which is extremely passive, and that's no bueno when a Mega Sableye or Mega Gallade can just set up in your face. Edited December 24, 2014 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Tricking Greninja via Zoroark is how I dealt with it in gen 6, but that doesn't seem to be a popular tactic nor is it reliable enough (relies on a strict good mind game.) Edited December 24, 2014 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 And even then, said checks (Greninja has no true counters) could still get trounced anyway depending on what it carries. The only real check I can think of is Porygon2, which is extremely passive, and that's no bueno when a Mega Sableye or Mega Gallade can just set up in your face. Pretty much. Either way, looks like we have to say goodbye to Greninja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Pretty much. Either way, looks like we have to say goodbye to Greninja. Yeah. The thing's guaranteed to K.O. at least one Pokemon and severely dent another, minimum. The thing eats balance for breakfast. The thing devastates hyper offense. It even puts in work against stall. Edited December 24, 2014 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Gunk Shot and Low Kick were all it needed to wreck havoc. Goodbye Sylveon. Goodbye Mega Gardevoir. Goodbye Azumarill. Goodbye walls. On another note, Mega Glalie and Pangoro were banned from NU. Edited December 24, 2014 by Reiuji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algae Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Yeah. The thing's guaranteed to K.O. at least one Pokemon and severely dent another, minimum. The thing eats balance for breakfast. The thing devastates hyper offense. It even puts in work against stall. Same kind of thing as Lucario, right? Where you won't know which set you have to counter until it's killed your would-be check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Same kind of thing as Lucario, right? Where you won't know which set you have to counter until it's killed your would-be check? Pretty much. There's also Protean to consider, and not just for offensive reasons... Edited December 24, 2014 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICKT™ Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Same kind of thing as Lucario, right? Where you won't know which set you have to counter until it's killed your would-be check? Reminds me of the mentality you have to have in FPS games, prepare for anything cause if it gets the jump on you, you're fucked no matter what unless they're horrible and you're a God. I hate that kind of gameplay. I wish Pokemon did less damage or had more HP, so that fights go the way of Final Fantasy and other RPGs where it takes a solid few hits to down a mon instead of one-shotting unless you're overlevelled like hell. I recently battled my brother and two of my pokemon in doubles took out all 6 of his and actually had a really easy time doing so, with decent type coverage and with Blaziken throwing up a protect because I knew an enemy fly was incoming for him. [spoiler=The battle] I open with Blaziken and Greninja. He sends out Wailord and Scolipede. I mega-evolve Blaziken and my Greninja moves first knocking out his Wailord with grass-knot. His Scolipede hits my Greninja doing just a little bit more damage than the kick-back from life orb does. He then sends out and mega-evolves a Charizard. My Blaziken then blaze-kicks Scolipede after getting a speed boost and kills in on one shot. Greninja gets Charizard down to red with a hydro pump and then the Charizard uses fly. He sends out Gigalith to replace his downed Scolipede and it's left on one HP after a grass knot by sturdy. Fly then tries to hit Blaziken but he used protect so it's wasted, Greninja then finished the job. Gigalith ends his turn using earthquake with finishes off Charizard but leaves both Blaziken and Greninja in the clear. Chesnaught comes out to replace Charizard but falls to red after a blaze kick and Gigalith is finished with an ice beam. Next comes out Klefki as Blaziken finishes off Chesnaught. Klefki quickly falls as well to another swift blaze kick. Match end. On that note too, can we have more pokemon like Aegislash plz? It's definitely one of my favorite pokemon mechanic-wise, because it's definitely more dynamic than 80% other pokemon in the middle of battle, whereas you can get dynamic pokemon but that's all dealt with before the battle starts in regards to EVs and movesets. Blagh, Game Freak, get yo game on. Edited December 25, 2014 by NICKT™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well you used a pokemon banned to ubers + a pokemon that's probably getting banned soon against a bunch of pokemon that are mostly not very good and for whom you had a super effective move against in each case so it's really not very surprising? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICKT™ Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well you used a pokemon banned to ubers + a pokemon that's probably getting banned soon against a bunch of pokemon that are mostly not very good and for whom you had a super effective move against in each case so it's really not very surprising? I know it's not surprising to a bunch of people in the middle of all the competitive stuff, but I just pokemon I like the look of so it caught me off guard. Plus on top of that he knew my pokemon and I didn't know his at all, so the pure effectiveness of my party was just pure luck after a point. I can't be alone in thinking that pokemon could definitely benefit from having a reworking of how it's system works, both in principal and mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Well you used a pokemon banned to ubers + a pokemon that's probably getting banned soon against a bunch of pokemon that are mostly not very good and for whom you had a super effective move against in each case so it's really not very surprising? And not only that, this was also a doubles match, for which Smogon doesn't ban stuff nearly as often. And it seems you don't know the first thing about competitive doubles, either... Edited December 25, 2014 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I mean... pokemon has never been the type of game where it takes a lot of hits to kill things? Not that that means it shouldn't be done, but if the game was changed so that all the pokemon got an HP boost, a lot of other things would have to be changed as well. Leftovers healing 1/16th of your HP suddenly becomes a lot better when your pokemon is getting 6HKOd as opposed to 3HKOd. Recovery moves would have to be nerfed or anything with one would never be beaten... Items like Life Orb become mostly useless because the recoil wouldn't be worth it anymore. The list goes on. There are probably changes that can be made to the pokemon system as a whole but I don't necessarily think this would be a good one, and I don't think that your experience with the battle against your brother is indicative at all of how most battles go. And besides I'm pretty sure doubling the HP of all pokemon would have had absolutely no effect on how that battle against your brother turned out. Your Greninja would maybe have died of LO recoil but Blaziken finished the last two off anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If you want long battles, maybe try stall? I actually find long battles annoying, but if that's your kind if stuff, try using things like Gliscor, porygon 2 and Chansey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Once we got into it Aegislash really isn't any more dynamic than many other pokemon "SHADOW BALL THEM TILL THEIR DEAD" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICKT™ Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Just forget I said anything then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I mean... pokemon has never been the type of game where it takes a lot of hits to kill things? gen 1, gen 2, gen 3 metagames gen 2 especially. gen 3 can be very stally if you have a good team. one reason that pokemon has been getting more offense-oriented throughout the generations (except for gen 2) is because better offensive items are introduced each generation, but the best defensive item has been in the game since gen 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 won't talk about gen 1 and 2 because I didn't play those but gen 3 wasn't stally really; it was just that everybody had balanced teams, as opposed to now where you see a much bigger variety in the types of teams that get run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Was Gen 1 Stally? The details I got from reading smogon reviews is basically after starting with Exeguttor showdown, you spam Body Slam after Body Slam after Body Slam until the time come and your lord and savior Tauros kills everything that moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algae Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Was Gen 1 Stally? The details I got from reading smogon reviews is basically after starting with Exeguttor showdown, you spam Body Slam after Body Slam after Body Slam until the time come and your lord and savior Tauros kills everything that moves. I think it's more that offense was at least a bit less crazy, as Dondon mentioned, and there's also the older EV mechanics to consider. Basically, weaker offense and stronger defense: In gens 1-2, Tauros has 299 attack in a metagame where even the glass cannons got full defensive investment, today you have things like Kyurem-B (the LO set's attack is more than double that, I think?) running around in OU without being grossly overpowered, and only 508 EVs to play with. It might not have been stally, but I don't think it was as rocket tag-y. It's kind of telling when mega evolution can spike up a mon's offenses into the 160+ range and they would still not hit as hard as if they had a life orb or choice item unless they had a really good ability... Which might be why tough claws and adaptability are on all of them. Edited December 26, 2014 by algae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) won't talk about gen 1 and 2 because I didn't play those but gen 3 wasn't stally really; it was just that everybody had balanced teams, as opposed to now where you see a much bigger variety in the types of teams that get run there's that, but i played gen 3 a lot back in the day and i had plenty of battles go into hundreds of turns. gen 3 had some defensive behemoths and everything in OU could be countered by something between skarmbliss, lax, suicune, celebi, swampert, forretress... the list goes on. in fact, if you look at the OU list for gen 3, there aren't very many purely offensive pokemon. this is a generation that didn't have choice specs, life orb, type gems, or abilities that boosted the power of certain attacks, and this was also before the gen 4 physical/special split that basically gave a lot of pokemon better coverage options. Was Gen 1 Stally? The details I got from reading smogon reviews is basically after starting with Exeguttor showdown, you spam Body Slam after Body Slam after Body Slam until the time come and your lord and savior Tauros kills everything that moves. algae is right about the old EV mechanics and lack of offensive power creep. most pokemon didn't have many coverage options, so chances are that you had something on your team that hard countered something on the opponent's team. for example, before hidden power, golem and rhydon were hard stops to zapdos, and zapdos is OU in gen 1! chansey was a hard stop to everything special and alakazam was strong enough to force you to PP stall. i think probably the best option for a mechanic change to reduce the potency of offense in the metagame is to add another 252 EVs to the EV cap. that allows offensive pokemon to invest in defenses, defensive pokemon to invest in offense, and some mixed pokemon can invest in all offensive stats (yay make greninja more OP... maybe). Edited December 26, 2014 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) I honestly think Tough Claws and Adaptability and simmilar stuff are some of the most overpowered ability in Pokemon. The fact that they never was put on good pokemon before(refering to Adaptability which was put on Eevee or so) make it seems as if the Mega mechanics are broken instead of.... these..... broken abilities that was never and should not been put "properly" in the first place yeah I still think Mega Beedrill is badly designed. Screw min maxing. Screw giving terrible pokemon a Mega. Extra 252 EV seems ike a decent idea, although i need to covince myself by seeing the calculations. For defensive pokemon this means you can make a 252/252/252 + Build but 252/252 spread has been broken down before, so it might not be a powerful as it seems Edited December 26, 2014 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Gen 1 was basically "NORMALS FOR DAYS" like, fucking Persian used to be OU because STAB Slash crits blew holes in everything and it had the coverage to hit the few things that could take a Slash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.