How to balance Galeforce

[GrySun]

Lets be honest, most previous skills will return with the addition of a few new ones.

Some old ones may stay the same, but others will need to change, either for better or for worse.

The most broken one out of all in the previous Fire Emblem was without a doubt Galeforce. They could completely remove it, yes, but is there a way for it to stay in the game and actually be balanced?

I believe it would be balanced in 2 ways:

1. You still get to act again after killing an enemy, but only act. No moving again is allowed. It would be like when Chrom takes something from the stash. He can still attack, use items etc., but he cant move after that. The thing is, what makes Galeforce truly strong is the extreme mobility you get. 80% of the time I didn't need it to clear enemies. I had enough other units to take the shot. But as you can move again after the kill, I used it as a stepping stone: killing an enemy not to kill him, but primarily to move my character further away from/towards something. I believe that it would still be strong if you couldn't move after the kill, but it wouldn't be broken.

You can still kill 2 enemies, if their position is correct. You could also heal with an elixir, or change your weapon from the bad hammer you were using before just to kill a pesky armor, to an actually good overall weapon. I believe this would make it quite good, but not broken for it to desired on every unit, no exception, like it was in Awakening.

2. Almost the same as 1, but with giving you movement. But that movement could work like Canto from previous games. To clarify, the unit could walk the rest of the movement points they had yet to use up, along with being able to attack/use items. This is somewhat stronger that 1, and would make Canto unneeded if it returned as an actual skill in the next Fire Emblem. Maybe its still too strong, but an alternative option if 1 is too weak, which I don't think it should be.

Overall I'm more for 1, as it would make things quite more strategic, especially with positioning of the enemy and baiting them to be clumped. It would probably also be an indirect buff Pass, which helps to position better.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I liked canto how it worked in Judgral and Tellius.

However they could bring back something like the movement stars from FE5.

I would call it movement points.

Movement point is another regular stat you can get in a level up. However the growth should very low (25% at the top). The maximum of movement points should be 10. Each movement point gives you an activation rate of moving again of 5%. That means if an unit has reached 10 movement points, the activation rate will be 50%.

Edited February 14, 2015 by The Taninator

[Klokinator]

I like how your suggestion to 'balance' galeforce actually means "Remove galeforce and add attack canto".

Better balance idea: Make the activation rate LUK/10 = %.

Betterer balance idea: Make the new movement turn only allow you to move half your regular distance. (Ex: Paladin moves 8 tiles, completes his turn, activates galeforce, can now move 4 more tiles.)

Bettererest balance idea: Halve all unit stats except HP if they move the unit and use the galeforce effect in any way.

[NekoKnight]

2. Almost the same as 1, but with giving you movement. But that movement could work like Canto from previous games. To clarify, the unit could walk the rest of the movement points they had yet to use up, along with being able to attack/use items. This is somewhat stronger that 1, and would make Canto unneeded if it returned as an actual skill in the next Fire Emblem. Maybe its still too strong, but an alternative option if 1 is too weak, which I don't think it should be.

I like this option better. You'd still get two attacks but you'd be more limited in who you can target for the next attack. That said, for units with high Move, even halving their total move won't limit them that much. One idea that might work is making it a Canto+ ability, where you could use all of your move after an attack and do any action EXCEPT attacking again. It would sure make hit and run attacks with fliers fun.

[Awakener_]

Nerfing Galeforce for the player only to realized that IS had created a Galeforce+ for the enemy that doesn't require them for kill in order for them to move again.

Joking (please don't make this a reality IS).

Edited February 14, 2015 by Awakener_

[Ambulz]

Nerfing Galeforce for the player only to realized that IS had created a Galeforce+ for the enemy that doesn't require them for kill in order for them to move again.

Joking (please don't make this a reality IS).

Lunatic++.

[GrySun]

I like how your suggestion to 'balance' galeforce actually means "Remove galeforce and add attack canto".

Better balance idea: Make the activation rate LUK/10 = %.

Betterer balance idea: Make the new movement turn only allow you to move half your regular distance. (Ex: Paladin moves 8 tiles, completes his turn, activates galeforce, can now move 4 more tiles.)

Bettererest balance idea: Halve all unit stats except HP if they move the unit and use the galeforce effect in any way.

So you think a better balance idea is to make it luck dependant? And especially a 4-5% tops activation chance is pretty bad.

Your other suggestion, as NekoKnight said, won't impact many units which already have a high base movement.

The last one would also not work. Considering stats are halved, you won't be killing anything anyway, especially if you have higher stats which can be halved even more. And if it remains halved druing the enemy turn too, its quite suicidal.

Not making the skill completely useless is not exactly balance. And "attack canto" it may be, at least the 2nd one, but considering Canto wasn't present in Awakening at all would make it more fresh to add something similar now.

I like this option better. You'd still get two attacks but you'd be more limited in who you can target for the next attack. That said, for units with high Move, even halving their total move won't limit them that much. One idea that might work is making it a Canto+ ability, where you could use all of your move after an attack and do any action EXCEPT attacking again. It would sure make hit and run attacks with fliers fun.

The only thing is, it might still be too strong, depending on how much you move before attacking for the first time. It could be more balanced if you can't move at all, but its only theory, not sure about practical use.

Lunatic++.

Oh my.....Would be interesting though.

MODEDIT: cool

Edited February 14, 2015 by Integrity

[Awakener_]

Lunatic++.

Allow non-nerf Galeforce in this difficultly perhaps(or hard level in general such as Luna and Luna+)? I really don't care if they gonna nerf Galeforce in other difficulties since I will main the hardest difficulty level with classic mode as my primarily go-to file.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Awakener_

[Nobody]

I don't really see the problem with galeforce TBH

Pair up and the fast EXP (and grinding as well, but most people don't use that) are THE things that break awakening. Galeforce is a really good skill that helps on LTC and all but it's not even close to those two

Edited February 14, 2015 by Nobody

[Ryo]

Another factor that made Galeforce so broken in FE13 is the number of units that have access to it (be it naturally, via reclassing or by inheritance). That needs to be balanced as well.

[omega zero]

Perhaps promoted classes could have one tradable or passable skill and one class exclusive skill. For example, if you re-class a general with Rally Def and Pavise, the new class would be able to use Rally Def but not Pavise. Galeforce could be Dark Flier exclusive.

[Jiac]

I say we use Advance Wars to answer our question.

You know Eagle's CO Power?

It lets you move again with a nerf in movement and firepower.

I think Galeforce should nerf your movement by half maybe 2 or 3, and your damage output by half, but if your partner has Galeforce. They are also affected by the nerf but your movement is reduced and firepower is reduced once again.

It makes sense since Intelligent Systems also worked on Advance Wars.

[mariovsonic999]

I say we use Advance Wars to answer our question.

You know Eagle's CO Power?

It lets you move again with a nerf in movement and firepower.

I think Galeforce should nerf your movement by half maybe 2 or 3, and your damage output by half, but if your partner has Galeforce. They are also affected by the nerf but your movement is reduced and firepower is reduced once again.

It makes sense since Intelligent Systems also worked on Advance Wars.

That is not true at all. Eagle's CO power never loses movement and the nerfed firepower is only in his basic CO power (in Duel Strike, though). Eagle can still make all but his infantry move again, and the firepower is negligible if necessary.

I think Galeforce is only powerful because of the character and accessibility, plus it is a much more powerful Canto. Maybe just remove it and replace with Canto again.

[Sentacotus]

Nerfing Galeforce for the player only to realized that IS had created a Galeforce+ for the enemy that doesn't require them for kill in order for them to move again.

Joking (please don't make this a reality IS).

My god no. Please no.

I like the idea of simply making its activation rate lower or nerfing strength I think those would help solve the problem considerably.

[Kiseki]

If only one unit in the entire game is capable of learning the skill, I don't see how it can be nerfed.

If multiple units can learn it, then I was thinking the unit would only be able to move and not attack, trade, etc. (only wait).

[Gradivus.]

only one Galeforce activation per turn.

[Awakener_]

A weaker Galeforce on easier difficulties and non-nerf Luna on series difficulties, nerfing Galeforce across the board will affect my play-style. That balance by enemies having broken-ass skills and higher stats, no luck or any forms of activation over than killing a enemy unit please.

[Florete]

Does Galeforce need balancing? Think about it this way: it requires getting to promoted level 15 in a class that is otherwise weaker than the alternative and only really has a great effect on low turn play. It's not like having an overpowered Jeigan that can just blow through everything; the unit with Galeforce still has their own stats, and if they can't make use of those, they can't use Galeforce well. For the everyday player, Galeforce is certainly helpful, but not a game breaker.

Alternatively, it could just allow the unit their full move again, but without any action at the end of it.

[PKL]

If anything should be removed/nerfed, it's freaking Veteran.

[Sentacotus]

Does Galeforce need balancing? Think about it this way: it requires getting to promoted level 15 in a class that is otherwise weaker than the alternative and only really has a great effect on low turn play. It's not like having an overpowered Jeigan that can just blow through everything; the unit with Galeforce still has their own stats, and if they can't make use of those, they can't use Galeforce well. For the everyday player, Galeforce is certainly helpful, but not a game breaker.

Alternatively, it could just allow the unit their full move again, but without any action at the end of it.

I mean another thing to consider is that it can be passed down to kids (if they do that in IF) so you grind your dark fliers and all of a sudden you have heros, swordmasters, mages and others classes that potentially have the skill through inheritance.

[NekoKnight]

They could either limit the number of Galeforce activations per turn or limit the number of Galeforce users who can be fielded at the same time.

[Awakener_]

I mean another thing to consider is that it can be passed down to kids (if they do that in IF) so you grind your dark fliers and all of a sudden you have heros, swordmasters, mages and others classes that potentially have the skill through inheritance.

But if one does wanted to have a whole group of Galeforce users, why does that concern you at all? I mean FE is after a single-player experience game.

[Sentacotus]

But if one does wanted to have a whole group of Galeforce users, why does that concern you at all? I mean FE is after a single-player experience game.

Then that's fine although I thought the topic was how to balance it so the skill is less powerful or nerfed but still useful.

[Awakener_]

Then that's fine although I thought the topic was how to balance it so the skill is less powerful or nerfed but still useful.

Now you reminded me actually I thought this is just another "Galeforce Is OP, NERF it!" thread. I take back my pervious post, I just opt with a no re-balancing needed. Sorry if I sound hostile with that post.

Also if any skill that need to be balance for the game it really is counter, make it ONLY boss's exclusive. It completely useless in the late game for us players and a total bitch in the enemy's hand. Make it only the boss had that thing (I said it with only my Luna+ experience, I don't know how frequent counter is in other difficultly).

Hell if they can get rid of counter in the hand of generic enemy, I can let them balance Galeforce all they want. I really just grind for Galeforce to counter Counter anyway.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Awakener_

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Honestly as much as GF is cited as an OP broken skill, it makes like no difference in difficulty if you remove it from the game

Meanwhile if Veteran is removed from the game, the game become like 2 times harder

In the context of FE:A though, a REALLY simple nerf that could be done is allowing 1 Galeforce per Squad. Not like it would do much since by the time you have access to Galeforce, the game has already gone into the "I kill everything in one round, and survive hordes and hordes of enemy" period

Edited February 15, 2015 by JSND