How to balance Galeforce

[Thor Odinson]

If you grind then everything is OP anyway

This isn't to counter galeforce specifically, but I've always liked the idea of class skills staying on the classes they come from and when you reclass you gain access to the class-specific skills but lose the old ones. The characters in question can have a set of personal skills that can be gained through levelling, instead. For example in FE:A after you get Astra/Swordfaire there's really no real reason to stay in Swordmaster when Assassin exists. Was meant to solve issues like this, but it could be applied to Galeforce as well.

And then put Galeforce on a bow class or something in its original glory, perfect for a class that's player phase reliant

...granted, I did design this system for something that doesn't have infinite levelling so

Edited February 15, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Strawman]

What they need is a tiered skill system. Say there's three tiers of skills. Each unit can have 5 skills: two of the lowest, two of the middle, and one top tier. Put galeforce in top tier and make it where equipping galeforece means you have to give up something like Luna. Thus, units are more specialized and not as OP on their own.

Or pull a GW2 and instead of doing tiers make skill categories. So each character gets a slot for stat boosting skills, for attack skills, healing skills, etc.

[Sentacotus]

Now you reminded me actually I thought this is just another "Galeforce Is OP, NERF it!" thread. I take back my pervious post, I just opt with a no re-balancing needed. Sorry if I sound hostile with that post.

Also if any skill that need to be balance for the game it really is counter, make it ONLY boss's exclusive. It completely useless in the late game for us players and a total bitch in the enemy's hand. Make it only the boss had that thing (I said it with only my Luna+ experience, I don't know how frequent counter is in other difficultly).

Hell if they can get rid of counter in the hand of generic enemy, I can let them balance Galeforce all they want. I really just grind for Galeforce to counter Counter anyway.

Nah you're fine you didn't come off as hostile at all. I was just thinking if they are going to rebalance the skill then the fact that it can be inherited by almost all the child units should be taken into account. Since at that point you don't even have to grind to get an army of Galeforce users and you might as well keep the 1st Gen as Dark Fliers anyways in most cases (save for Olivia since shes the only one who can be a dancer and maybe Lissa as a healer). I mean I guess Falconknights are better stats wise and can use staves but Darkfliers get tomes and as far as I can tell the stats difference is almost negligable compared to the utility of Rally Movement and Galeforce.

Edited February 15, 2015 by LordTaco42

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Having an army of Galeforce children involves grinding(getting Maribelle, Lissa, and Olivia in reasonable time to be a x/15 Dark Flier = no fucking way its not grinding), and potentally even more grinding to get the children up to shape anyway

The whole Children with Galeforce issue can be very easilly written off as "don't grind". Not to mention its not like every game, including 14 is going to have children system.

[Ownagepuffs]

ITT: Good players knowing what they are talking about.

Red Fox says it best.

It requires getting to level 15 in a promoted class that only 2 characters (Cordelia, Sumia) can get in a reasonable time frame (and still take a rather substantial amount of effort to get it in the first place), and their daughters can inherit it. Too many people have access to it? How the fuck the Maribelle, Olivia and Lissa end up with it if they aren't even combat oriented? Oh wait, that's because you grinded. In that case, the problem lies with grinding, not with Galeforce. I'm willing to bet that anyone that says Galeforce distribution is too high has most likely spent too much time in exponential growth. Do any of you have any idea how fucking terrible Inigo and Owain are in-game? Brady can be a drop in staff bot, but once he is promoted he is stuck with E rank offense for a while. Not to mention his bases will likely blow courtesy of Maribelle.

You know what an actual problem is? Veteran. Positive feedback: the skill. There is no reason for Robin to have Paragon-lite for free. He doesn't have to do any work for it. He just starts with it. Galeforce is powerful, but it cannot allow for positive feedback on its own in the same way Veteran can.

My theory with why they gave it to Dark Fliers is because they probably designed Dark Fliers to be a fragile class and gave them an option to get kills and not be left in the middle of too many enemies.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[omega zero]

My theory with why they gave it to Dark Fliers is because they probably designed Dark Fliers to be a fragile class and gave them an option to get kills and not be left in the middle of too many enemies.

Can't the same thing be accomplished (more or less) without having the ability to attack again?

[Ownagepuffs]

I'm just grasping. From a gameplay perspective, every class has skills that match their intended roles. Galeforce is an anomaly, as their really isn't anything about the Dark Flier that screams "they should act again after a kill".

Regardless, it's not really a problem as the amount of work necessary to obtain the skill is still a factor many people ignore. Level 15 promoted is a far ways off for anyone not named Robin. Maybe it is to balance out that they have the worst rally.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

You can actually reach 15 P for one of the peggie by like begining of Part 2, but thats assuming a really strict exp distribution

As for Lissa/Maribelle from my experience, her stats growth suck just enough that even if you manage to go 20/10/1 on DF, she won't even catch up

Olivis is worse Lissa/Maribelle. At least Rescue Staff exist for those two

[Sentacotus]

Having an army of Galeforce children involves grinding(getting Maribelle, Lissa, and Olivia in reasonable time to be a x/15 Dark Flier = no fucking way its not grinding), and potentally even more grinding to get the children up to shape anyway

The whole Children with Galeforce issue can be very easilly written off as "don't grind". Not to mention its not like every game, including 14 is going to have children system.

Maribelle's kid is Brady so I can't really see a reason to give him galeforce in the first place but thats just personal preference. Olivia's not too bad since she can at least attack as a dancer to level up to 10 and then reclass to peg then master seal at 10 to dark flier and then up to 15. So yeah its 35 levels but at least she dosen't have to rely on healing to level up for the first 10 and she can dance as well for exp. I've never had too much trouble with Lissa since I use the hell out of her in the first few chapters and she can get up to or close to 10 by the time Maribelle joins of course you could always use the dlc by that point anyways and then you use a second seal to get her to peg knight and master seal at 10 and then dark flier (at which point you can take advantage of her magic stat) to 15. So yeah its some grinding for those 3 (2 of which in my mind are only worth getting the skill for) but its not so bad. Then of course Cordelia and Sumia have it easy since they already start on that track.

I don't claim to be a pro at all just my personal experience. Again you're talking to a person who likes the experience of grinding units up.

[eclipse]

If anything should be removed/nerfed, it's freaking Veteran.

I vote for removing it. As a class, it's actually pretty good for utility (flying spellcaster, gives Magic/Speed from the back). Pair it with Tomefaire for giggles.

[Ownagepuffs]

You can actually reach 15 P for one of the peggie by like begining of Part 2, but thats assuming a really strict exp distribution

As for Lissa/Maribelle from my experience, her stats growth suck just enough that even if you manage to go 20/10/1 on DF, she won't even catch up

Olivis is worse Lissa/Maribelle. At least Rescue Staff exist for those two

I'm totally aware that a peg can get GF by Part 2. Hell I've done it myself, it is one of the reasons Sumia kinda stomps literally every wife for Chrom bar Robin into the next dimension.

Sumia has to take the C8 master seal no questions asked, then she has to near solo everything from C8-C13. It's no small feat. I'm not sure about Cordelia and I know only one of your pegs can get it before part 2 due to exp not being enough for two level 15 promoted units. Unless Robin because lol Veteran.

Funny thing is even if you grind Maribelle, Olivia, and Lissa to have it, their offensive parameters won't even allow for a kill for it to activate regardless.

Anyway, to be honest, I've always just though the skill should either a) be on a more Player phase oriented class like Bow Knight/Sniper or b) give it a [speed x2]% activation chance. I mean it's on a ridiculously fast class anyway so it allows the skill to be reliable but not guaranteed.

[Sentacotus]

I gotta admit I'm kinda liking the idea of giving archers/bow riders a skill like galeforce. Maybe call it withdraw where if they kill an enemy or give it an activation rate so they can only move again (without attacking) might make them a hell of a lot more viable. I mean if you think about it thats what archers and skirmishers are supposed to do I mean I know its fiction and all but still.

[solrocknroll]

How To Balance Galeforce:
remove Galeforce

[NinjaMonkey]

Funny thing is even if you grind Maribelle, Olivia, and Lissa to have it, their offensive parameters won't even allow for a kill for it to activate regardless.

Why not? Since Maribelle and Lissa are magic-orientated units, surely they would be able to kill enemy units through the use of tomes, rather than lances.

Edited February 16, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Ownagepuffs]

Mary and Lissa get their exp through staff spam. At 10/1 their combat will be poor so they will continue to get exp through staff spam. 10/10/1 comes along and they are stuck with E Lance/E Tomes. Not cool.

Lissa may have some fight in her if you decided to staff spam her to 10/15 for Tomefaire. Their main problem will be their trouble doubling.

[Jedi]

If any class needed Galeforce. It was snipers.

[Ownagepuffs]

As far as Awakening is concerned, Snipers are already an obscenely powerful class.

[Vanym Storm]

If any class needed Galeforce. It was snipers.

Pretty much. I mean, it seemed obvious to me; everybody's always said the biggest problem with snipers was that even the best bow user can only be expected to kill one enemy per turn. Fixed.

At the end of the day, the problem isn't so much Galeforce itself, as its availability. The problem is that they combined a reclassing system with an inheritance system. Just having one of those two would've kept a much tighter lid on the issue. (In theory, at least. Peg Knight is in like 8-9 class sets, so...)

Good thing, too; there's only so much you can do to balance this without dragging the dreaded RNG into it, and this seems like the sort of thing you really want to be able to plan around if you're going to use it.

[Ownagepuffs]

Awakening's mechanics greatly favor Snipers at the highest level. Few things are as frightening as full powered offense from 3 range.

Even the hardest difficulty has a hard-on for Snipers. Snipers are not bad so long as the game is tuned around their use. Just sayin'

I've already addressed the availability issue. Inheritance wise, only Cynthia and Severa are getting it, since only Cordelia and Sumia can get it within a reasonable time frame. Maribelle, Olivia, and Lissa are not getting that skill unless you grind ad nauseum.

[Jedi]

The issue with Snipers is you only have two people naturally who can go to the class, and to get others you have to use resources.

Virion is difficult to use, and Noire isn't avalible for a significant part of the game.

[Ownagepuffs]

In general, most train Chrom and his family since they have archer access. Morgan and MU can also opt for bow using classes as well. Regardless, that's less a problem with the class and more a problem with its accessibility, no?

Edited February 17, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[The Magus]

Can't we just have Canto back? ;_;

[eclipse]

Funny thing is even if you grind Maribelle, Olivia, and Lissa to have it, their offensive parameters won't even allow for a kill for it to activate regardless.

If you're not going for efficiency, and allow a lot of grinding, Maribelle can and will get kills - it'll just take forever and a day (Troubadour -> Mage -> Sage for Tomefaire -> Dark Flier). Lissa can probably go Cleric -> Sage for Tomefaire -> Dark Flier. . .assuming that the rest of her parameters keep up. She probably won't nuke as hard as Maribelle, though.

Olivia is kind of SOL - the pegasus line is her only shot at lances (aside from Bride), and the only procs she'll get that are remotely helpful are Lethality and Astra (and the latter means squat if you're hitting for three damage before it).

I'm still for removing it, though. Maybe turn it into a full-move canto on kill or something, if it's nerfed.

[Ownagepuffs]

I wouldn't mind a full move Canto nerf. In fact, most of the time I used Galeforce was for EP re-positioning purposes anyway. Using it to get another kill causes overexposure more often than not.

[Snowy_One]

Possible idea?

Having Galeforce activate causes a stat-shift where Strength/Magic increases by 1, but DEF and RES decreases by 2 (stacking) until the start of the next turn. That way you can galeforce it up, but you'll need to be either very careful with what you do or risk ending a turn with only half your defenses up. The attack-boost will encourage people to go on the offensive and can even pressure people to try and combo together attacking weaker units to attack a stronger unit they couldn't handle before, but failure can easily end up with a person with weakened defenses alone without aid. Meanwhile people who don't want to take the risk are inclined to put the galeforced unit behind the lines out of fire to ensure they don't take damage until the start of the next turn.

Course, that's just me and I tend to love the 'gain an edge/lose an edge' type of skills or skills that are meh on their own but work well with combos.