Refa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Unless Refa was like 100% town (which he always is of course) Truer words have never been said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Seriously though, that's all I needed. I don't have any issues with Shin's initial post; I'd rather him be open with his doubts about my claim (I mean, I have had some fairly townie fakeclaims as scum, so I can see where he's coming from) and the style of writing (not sure if this is how I should be wording things, mreh) reminds me of his play in the last day of Quickhammer Mafia (basically looking at both sides and seeing which one is more reasonable). Now that Rapier's not in this game, his scumdar will be on point 100% of the time! Mitsuki's content is fine for the most part (I can understand her reasoning for her reads, even if I don't agree with the Shin vote), but I'm interested in seeing what she thinks about Shin's response. Also would like to know your thoughts on Baldrick as well, since you mentioned that Shin was trying to paint me as scummy but what Baldrick said ("@Mitsuki; is there any particular reason why Refa's "judge me on content" gives you a strong town gut? I don't see why it's more likely to come from town rather than scum blending in.") is worse in that regard, especially since he doesn't really have a definite opinion on me. Baldrick, what's wrong with Mitsuki's reasoning regarding SB? Also to add to what SB said (which I'd sheep), it just seems weird that you'd be OK with voting with Mitsuki, considering you're suspicious of her? I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The two of us that do care probably Anyways, you'll see what I'm capable of tonight. For now, I'm gonna go with my constant gut feeling.##Vote: Dandragon That does not say Randa so it can't be the gut feeling you have every game. :p I've only claimed miller a mod-given fake. And in that case we should probably lynch Elieson instead for being a jerk. I would be okay with lynching Eli for starting 3 mins after I went to sleep. Y'all can't lynch me, the Declaration of Independence protects me because I am an American! Refa, why did you tell people to judge you by what you do rather than your role? Lynches solely on rolespec don't happen in 2015 (also America), and even if they did asking nicely wouldn't stop them. In America! I guarantee there will be at least three lynches based solely on rolespec in the month of March alone. I'm pretty sure that Refa's role is too stupid to be scum. There's probably only 2 maf and if one dies D1 then Refa is stuck hoping that all of the townies kill themselves every day with no influence on the lynch until maybe *YLO when his role deactivates? But what if he's Kaiba and an ITP. Least I think that's how the plot played out. I don't remember very well. (Do not take this comment seriously, I highly doubt there is am ITP in a 10 person game) ##Vote: Shin I don't like how he brought up points on why Refa could be scum when he's townreading him. You don't necessarily need to out your townreads, but I don't see town bringing up points against them, even if they dismiss those shortly afterwards. It feels more like an attempt to contribute to discussion to me than an attempt to paint Refa as scummy, though. @SB: not much, but given the context (RVS) and the way you handled it, it felt townie to me. Altough first I had the gutread and I tried to find the explanation behind it later when posting, if you're wondering. See I disagree, I think that if your town read isn't the strongest or you don't have a lot of information you have to air out your opinion on everybody even if it is putting your town read at risk. Also would you rather see Shin paint a townread as scummy less then 12 hours into the game or bring up points to talk about.This logic seems kinda forced. And I don't feel there is a lot for SB, nor anyone else for that matter, to be contributing to at this point so I'm struggling to see why you feel he's town based on that. On to Baldrick, I don't like the hesitance to vote. I know we just finished a game with 3 quick hammers, but of you are suspicious of shin and there is only one vote on him, and there are most likely only two scum why wouldn't you vote him. And yes I do see your logic for being suspicious of shin and just what I wrote above for that, I just want some clarification on what you think about Mitsuki cause you never seem to come to a definite conclusion. ##Vote: Baldrick Please answer the above questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Elieson's First FIST VotalsBaldrick (3): Radiant Dragon, SB., RandaDandragon (2): Poly, Shin Shin (1): Mitsuki59 hours and 52 minutes remain. 6 hammers early. Otherwise, majority=Lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 okay so im gonna be a hypocrite here and ##unvote cause i don't want someone at L-3 after quick hammer mafia. #hypocriteandiknowit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not voting to avoid quickhammers when you're not going to leave anyone at L-1 is dumb. I can appreciate it's early game, but the vote doesn't feel particularly strong. Unless Refa was like 100% town (which he always is of course), there's going to be at least some aspect of his play that might make me think, especially with a role as weird as his. That's not my point. My point is that instead of bringing up the reasons on why he's probably town and then saying you're not certain, you bring up the reasons on why he could be scum and then say you're not certain. It doesn't seem the natural way to go about a townread to me. Also would like to know your thoughts on Baldrick as well, since you mentioned that Shin was trying to paint me as scummy but what Baldrick said ("@Mitsuki; is there any particular reason why Refa's "judge me on content" gives you a strong town gut? I don't see why it's more likely to come from town rather than scum blending in.") is worse in that regard, especially since he doesn't really have a definite opinion on me. I don't see what Baldrick did as telling. I could see town!Baldrick doing that to question my read, or scum!Baldrick doing the same to paint you as scummy. I don't think Shin was trying to paint you as scummy by the way, as I said I think Shin was trying to bring up something to discuss. See I disagree, I think that if your town read isn't the strongest or you don't have a lot of information you have to air out your opinion on everybody even if it is putting your town read at risk. Also would you rather see Shin paint a townread as scummy less then 12 hours into the game or bring up points to talk about. This logic seems kinda forced. You're bringing up points on 1. why townreads are bad 2. What could Shin do if not what he did Ok then. Explain how both of these points make my logic forced, because I don't think it follows. Don't like this, specially the Shin defense. Randa's not arguing that my logic is wrong or scummy, he's arguing that I shouldn't apply it. By the way, I think this is scummy regardless of my thoughts on Shin. And I don't feel there is a lot for SB, nor anyone else for that matter, to be contributing to at this point so I'm struggling to see why you feel he's town based on that. Well, it's a gutread based on his EM play. Hard to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not voting to avoid quickhammers when you're not going to leave anyone at L-1 is dumb. You're bringing up points on 1. why townreads are bad 2. What could Shin do if not what he did Ok then. Explain how both of these points make my logic forced, because I don't think it follows. Don't like this, specially the Shin defense. Randa's not arguing that my logic is wrong or scummy, he's arguing that I shouldn't apply it. By the way, I think this is scummy regardless of my thoughts on Shin. i would usually agree with that, if not for the fact that the last time i thought i left someone at L-3 i went to sleep and when i woke up they were dead. so i'm a smidge hesitant. i think it's pretty clear if i think the logic doesn't apply then its forced. and yes you got it dead the logic isn't inherently wrong, i just think its too early to use that as the basis of your case. you don't have to be scum for me to disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Explain how it is too early to bring up what I said about Shin. Also, bad logic =/= forced logic. Explain why my logic is forced and not just something you don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That's not my point. My point is that instead of bringing up the reasons on why he's probably town and then saying you're not certain, you bring up the reasons on why he could be scum and then say you're not certain. It doesn't seem the natural way to go about a townread to me. I gave reasons why I thought he was probably town. His behaviour didn't strike me as scummy and his role doesn't sound like it would remotely work as scum. I mean, I get what you're saying, but "it's not natural" doesn't strike me with much conviction. I mean, it's not a scummy vote, but just a fairly poor one. I wouldn't really call Randa's actions a defense of me, more criticism of your initial vote. Also, surely the "not voting" logic could be applied to Baldrick. ##Unvote ##Vote: Baldrick I don't take as much issue with Mitsuki as I do Baldrick though. I'm aware timezones are a thing, but I don't like how he hopped on with very little commitment and left Mitsuki to draw attention. I forgot to mention this, but another reason I trust Refa's gimpy role is because I have a weird one of my own. Apparently if I don't have a vote down, I'll auto-hammer at L-1 as long as it's not me. Please no turbos in British Sleep time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You gave your reasoning on why you thought Refa was town later, when I asked. Also I never said anyone was scummy for not voting, and my comment was adressed both at Baldrick and Randa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 RD, you should probably unvote (I'm assuming you're reading through and making a post but yeah). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Between hammerer and OMNIVOTER I don't think this was a good game to come after quickhammer mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ##Unvote ##Vote: Randa On a more serious note, why are you pushing Baldrick's hesitance to vote as scummy when you unvoted when a guy was at L-3? You don't even say why this is scummy in the first place. I know you admitted that it was hypocritical but you've got to have SOME logic there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @Refa: Actually, I had just left the page on SF while I was doing something else. I am going to ##Unvote though because even though I'm kinda suspicious about Baldrick now he has enough pressure on him already. SB, since you're claiming miller anyway would you mind also claiming your character? As far as I'm aware that's allowed since we all know Baldrick's Bandit Keith. I'm more curious than suspicious, really. Baldrick's logic for not voting isn't very good. In addition to what's already been said, I don't see a point for Refa to throw his votes around just for ships and giggles especially if there's danger of hammer, and I think everyone's going to a bit more cautious about hammer in general because of the mess that was last game. Kinda seems like a way to make a stance he can disassociate himself from later. Mitsuki and Shin are both null from my perspective so far. Mitsuki's case is weak but I'm getting more of a 'Townie with due diligence suspicions' than 'Scum trying to frame Town' vibe from their argument. Shin hasn't said anything I'm particularly pleased or concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm Joey. Apparently people don't trust my Brooklyn accent or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Huh. I was expecting Bakura or Devlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ##Unvote ##Vote: Randa On a more serious note, why are you pushing Baldrick's hesitance to vote as scummy when you unvoted when a guy was at L-3? You don't even say why this is scummy in the first place. I know you admitted that it was hypocritical but you've got to have SOME logic there. i wasn't voting him cause i thought he was scum , it was more of pressure vote to get clarification on his mitsuki thoughts. that also why i didn't hesitate to unvote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I come back from school to see Poly and oddly enough Shin to have voted for me. Then Shin takes it back. I can't get a read on anyone so ##Vote: Poly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Explain how it is too early to bring up what I said about Shin. Also, bad logic =/= forced logic. Explain why my logic is forced and not just something you don't agree with. because you're point against shin is, and correct if i'm misinterpreting this, that he is giving points about why an early town read could be scum. this is not bad logic just a bad time to us it imo, if you use something in the wrong time it seems forced. i would be more suspicious if shin came out and had a definitive read, either scum or town, less than 12 hours into a game. i don't say anything implying your scum for this, aside from the offhanded comment about forced logic, i just stated my opinion on the logic of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I come back from school to see Poly and oddly enough Shin to have voted for me. Then Shin takes it back. I can't get a read on anyone so ##Vote: Poly I appreciate that you're relatively new to this, but would you be able to look over the game again? Stuff's already happened and a random vote on Poly doesn't really achieve much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuki Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @Randa: Correction: I'm voting him because he gave reasons on why Refa could be scum instead of reasons on why he was probably town. Anyways my Randa suspicion is looking more and more like a disagreement to me than as something telling. Null, I'd like him to come up with some read of his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 okay, i'll have to reread shin then. i'll porbably reread and get more concrete thoughts later tonight while working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I appreciate that you're relatively new to this, but would you be able to look over the game again? Stuff's already happened and a random vote on Poly doesn't really achieve much. I dont really see much as happening. All I see are people arguing each with their own logic. Nothing really seems incredibly scummy. Not yet anyway. ##Unvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 What do you think about Randa and Shin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I am in agreement that Mitsuki's logic does come off as forced but at the same time I understand it. As for his suspicions on Baldrick, no one wants to be lynched day 1 and going for someone who already had votes is a logical, albeit hasty and unorganized, action to take. I find Shin to be hasty to want to lynch Baldrick but the same could be applied to many SF mafia players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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