Warpskipping

[Jedi]

A previous thread led me to create this, I'm curious on the populous opinion on warp skipping when it's allowed in Fire Emblem games.

Warp skipping for the uninformed is a form of nearly skipping the entirety of a map thanks to powerful warp staves. Which is in various games

As I cannot fully think of a set of poll options I figured I'd just let everyone have at it with their various opinions on the matter, from LTC'ers to the most general FE player. I'd like to hear everyone

[MCProductions]

It turns shadow dragon into a piece of cake so bring it back as a super guide esque thing when you get stuck on a chapter.

[Gradivus.]

From a general FE perspective, I'm not much opposed to the possibility of it, but I tend not to do it since it feels somewhat cheap to skip a map instead of facing the enemies by myself. If I deem a map so boring that it's really not worth my time playing through it with my team (I did so once for FE11 C23 and 24 because it would essentially just have been a Shiida + Hardin duo to repetitively take on the same enemies for quite a while) but really, if there are different ways than doing a bosskill and warping the lord, I prefer to stick with those.

From an LTCing perspective, if I were to do an FE11 LTC run, I'd play warpless because warpskipping 11 is simply so boring, straightforward and not very hard for it to feel like an actual achievement. Other FE's handled warp pretty differently and I'd have no issues with using it there given the restrictions put on it . Inexistent in FE12!Lunatic especially, because if there's an incentive to do H2 on an LTC run, it IS the warp staff and it's not straightforward at all given that only 1 staff appears and hammerne has low uses. PKL did an H2 Warpskip LTC for instance and the staff usage does require planning (and of course, the clears prior to it due to the warp staff coming on C14). dondon's FE6 0% run used it completely differently otoh, by indirectly shaving turns with it instead of just warping roy and warping a bosskiller due to the limited distance.

Overall infinite range warp spam can be considered cheap, but I don't care how much other players use it.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Katie]

I don't use it. I only warp Marth to seize if I've already cleared al enemies, but all the items I want, etc. and Marth is far from the seize point, so as to save turns that would basically just be Marth slowly walking to the throne for several turns. I never skip an entire chapter with warp, that just isn't fun, tbh. Plus, I'd miss all that precious EXP I'd get from defeating all the enemies.

If other people do, idc, but I don't do it myself. I don't even play the harder modes where it's nigh necessary anyway.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[Refa]

While the raw power of Warp in FE1/2/3/5/11/12 brings unbrindled joy as you break the game over its shoulders, from a balance perspective it's all kinds of awful and I'd prefer to either appear much later (as it does in TRS) and limited in some way (such as to a specific character...like TRS, since otherwise it's just horrible from a balance perspective. FE6 Warp did it the best, shoutouts to FE4 Warp for being super helpful without being broken. FE7/8 warps were horrible and a disservice to the staff, FE9/10/13 were lamer because they didn't have Warp at all.

[Carmine Sword]

Awakening may not have had a Warp Staff, but Rescue-skipping achieved pretty much the same result that Warp-skipping does in other games. Perhaps even more so, for even though Rescue staves didn't have unlimited range, you did have an unlimited amount at your disposal due to them being buyable.

[Irysa]

FE6 Warp is just hands down the best way to handle it. You get it relatively early, not infinite range but the formula is generous, you get giving a competant unit no matter what that can use it later on, and whilst it can save you a lot of hassle it doesn't completely simplifiy maps.

Infinite Warp is pretty cheap and I abstain from using it to fullskip unless I was trying to LTC or just really don't want to have to do a map normally. The main way I use unlimited warp is to take out obnoxious enemy targets or secure objectives elsewhere on the map whilst clearing the rest of it out normally, such as using it to save the prisoners in FE11 from that jerkass Mage (doesn't actually need it though) or warping a magic user to kill the boss on Wooden Cavalry because he's an asshole and hits way too hard.

[Shadow Mir]

I personally don't do it - I don't like missing out on treasure, among other reasons

Edited March 3, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[dondon151]

infinite warp range still required strategizing in FE5 because warp had limited uses and often you had to expend warp staff charges to get even more warp staves. it's a bit cheaper in non-SSS rank playthroughs because some of the objectives that are the most staff-intensive in FE5 are the ones that involve recruiting or saving characters.

EDIT: contrast this with TRS, where warp was only limited to 1 character, but it really trivialized the game because the endgame maps were not very diverse in terms of objectives.

Edited March 3, 2015 by dondon151

[Refa]

Fair enough.

[Moishe Oofnik]

1 sentence or like some words that mean something

FE5 chapter 22 cyas fuck you warpskippin

[Radiant Dragon]

FE6 Warp did it the best, shoutouts to FE4 Warp for being super helpful without being broken. FE7/8 warps were horrible and a disservice to the staff, FE9/10/13 were lamer because they didn't have Warp at all.

What was terrible about FE7/8 warps? Range or availability? Although FE8's availability isn't that bad.

[Refa]

Well, it's more a combination of them both really. FE8 Warp did have a lot better availability, but the range was so limiting and there was barely enough time to train competent Warp users.

[General Horace]

the issue with FE7/8 warp staves was there were so few chapters it was actually good in for it to matter (especially FE7). FE6's is around for so long and has bigger maps (and bigger warp range) so it makes sense that it'd be better.

If you're just playing slowly, you have plenty of time to have warp users in FE8 though. Saleh can hit warp pretty quickly, C to A really doesn't take too long, and you have Moulder/Artur/insert not knoll or Ewan here to reach it too.

[Chiki]

I have no opinion. I've never LTCed a game with warpskips, but I guess they must be awesome.

[Ownagepuffs]

Infinite range warp is derp. Stat based warp is best.

I have no opinion. I've never LTCed a game with warpskips, but I guess they must be awesome.

I should buy you a warp staff as a graduation present and watch you LTC real life.

[feplus]

Well-designed warping needs to account for five things:

1. When you get warp.

2. When you get staffers who can use warp.

3. Warp's range.

4. Warp's durability (and, by extension, hammerne's durability).

5. Warp's usefulness.

FE5 does it worst. It's great fun but infinite range breaks the difficulty curve, neutering late-game maps and making mid-game maps much easier. Moreover, there are a ton of warp staves to pick up, and it's not hard to come by a unit with an A-Staff rank.

FE6/7/8 fix most of the issues present in 5 but introduce new issues. 7's warp comes late and contributes marginal utility (good for experience, useful on Berserker / Victory or Death / Value of Life and that's about it), 8 has a dearth of competent warpers, and both 6 and 8 tuck the staff away under the sand, which is needlessly cryptic.

So I think we still haven't seen warp's full potential; shame IS has abandoned the concept.

Edited March 4, 2015 by feplus

[Psych]

I think FE4 probably had close to the best warp. I would have liked it if you maybe had a few more locations that maybe varied by chapter. So you could warp Dew and Aideen to Tower of Blaggi in Chapter 3 to get the Wind Sword/Talk to Briggid. Or maybe somewhere in chapter 4 to get Dew to fix the bridge, or have Sylvia visit her village.

Basically just things that help you complete events a bit faster and not have to wait on walking. Other than that it was pretty good though.

[MacLovin]

It's totally ok.

Especially in fe7 cm.

because fuck ch28 and getting to Nino by rescue chain.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Well-designed warping needs to account for five things:

1. When you get warp. fe5 does this well

2. When you get staffers who can use warp.fe5 again

3. Warp's range.Meh not fe5

4. Warp's durability (and, by extension, hammerne's durability). fe5 again

5. Warp's usefulness. fe5 again

FE5 does it worst. It's great fun but infinite range breaks the difficulty curve, neutering late-game maps and making mid-game maps much easier. Moreover, there are a ton of warp staves to pick up, and it's not hard to come by a unit with an A-Staff rank.

FE6/7/8 fix most of the issues present in 5 but introduce new issues. 7's warp comes late and contributes marginal utility (good for experience, useful on Berserker / Victory or Death / Value of Life and that's about it), 8 has a dearth of competent warpers, and both 6 and 8 tuck the staff away under the sand, which is needlessly cryptic.

So I think we still haven't seen warp's full potential; shame IS has abandoned the concept.

Yea because chapter 22 19 leadership stars is so fun and really good difficulty with +57% avoid +57% hit to all your units reinhart being a bitch too

[Jedi]

I think FE4 probably had close to the best warp. I would have liked it if you maybe had a few more locations that maybe varied by chapter. So you could warp Dew and Aideen to Tower of Blaggi in Chapter 3 to get the Wind Sword/Talk to Briggid. Or maybe somewhere in chapter 4 to get Dew to fix the bridge, or have Sylvia visit her village.

Basically just things that help you complete events a bit faster and not have to wait on walking. Other than that it was pretty good though.

FE6 Warp is just hands down the best way to handle it. You get it relatively early, not infinite range but the formula is generous, you get giving a competant unit no matter what that can use it later on, and whilst it can save you a lot of hassle it doesn't completely simplifiy maps.

These 2 opinions are pretty much on point with where I think about Warp, although I do highly enjoy the more limitless warps haha

Edited March 4, 2015 by Jedi

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Warpskipping has been wonderful for those later chapters of FE6, as well as a lot of the shitty Gaidens. Because even with an overpowered party, those chapters are still ridiculous.

[Snowy_One]

I hate it. Ignoring my feelings on LTC I just feel that it sort of robs the game of some of its fun. I'd much rather go through a level with maxed-out units and play through it entirely than warp-skip.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I don't play LTC, but in FE6 where chapters are bogged down with high amounts of sieges and status staves, both of which most units in the game are ill-equipped to combat, warpskipping (or at least saving the hassle of navigating the maze-like pattern of most Gaidens) is extremely useful to avoid annoyance in those chapters.

[Paper Jam]

I prefer games that have a variety of chapter objectives, and it just so happens that those chapter objectives tend to include Holdouts and Routs that you really can't Warpskip past. So in general, I have a poor opinion on Warpskipping.