Code Geass Mafia - Game Over

[Mitsuki]

Well, considering what happened D1 we should start to consolidate already.

I would support a lynch on Proto, Marth and Refa. I wouldn't support a lynch on anyone else, including Kay, since I don't think the slot will last much longer at this rate.

[Junk]

Feeling really demotivated right now so probably just going to answer some questions

@elie well if you look at post 496 where does eury mention blitz is scummy at all. She just calls his logic dumb. Blitz questions eury for not voting him in that post which doesn't make sense considering eury hadn't even called him scum. It misreps eury for calling him scum when she didn't.

okay woops have to go now

[Refa]

@Refa, well, what I was thinking is, if you show up 45mins before phase ends, you normally have to claim. I do not think the black knights were given fake flavors, so, Eury would have a hard time with coming up with a fake, even if she wanted to claim vanilla.

Now, imagine one of Eury's buddies are around near phase end and says, "don't worry about it, I will make sure the wagon is moved away from you this phase (will be pointing fingers and Boron and Junko if Eury is scum), so, don't worry about it" and Eury say,"in that case, you saved me the trouble, but just in case, I will wait around to see if things really do go down smoothly"

Oh, forgot to reply to this, but SB definitely gave scum fakeclaims in FE11 Mafia. It's probably safe to assume they have them here.

Eury, I just feel reminded her of SMT play where she was wolf and "I have a gut feeling I am totally confident in" already got kirsche lynched

Maybe you since you're basically leading lynches on my townreads and I still think the Elieson thing was weird. It's awkward since GP's posting has gotten townier, if you weren't a hydra I'd probably be voting you tbh

But wouldn't she play differently as a wolf than she does as scum?

Elieson thing?

so work has been busy today i'll have to throw something together later tonight when I get home sorry no more wallposts for refa and eury to drool over for a few hours. i really wanna finish my super metroid stream though so i'll probably churn out a post, do that and then go to sleep idk yet for sure

skimming this page leads me to agree with paperbrad on the marth slot; he's playing like he did in CYOR, giving just slightly more effort maybe but the play feels the same. plus as scum he'd be tunneling eury hard all game long which he's pretty much been doing and i don't think scum would keep themselves tied to what might inevitably be a mislynch for this long. IMO he's playing really town: scum puts forth a lot of effort in making good looking cases, and Marth's just kinda been like "yea, eury's scum ok just, ugh". He doesn't seem to be grasping for anything farfetch'd, and he doesn't seem to be forcing out overblown cases (like me I guess), he's just kinda like "yea, i just pretty much think eury's scum and she rubbed me the wrong way that's what she said" kinda thing. demotivated scum might do this but i find demotivated town far more likely to just stick with a gutread with an ok foundation.

Checking GP's ISO; she hasn't really done a whole lot of overly townie things. i feel like lots of her posts have been self-defense and not a lot of contribution towards applying pressure and/or scumhunting. Other than going after eury, i can't think of anything noteworthy that GP has done to put her name into the spotlight of things. I'll need to really pick apart her cases on eury and see what i think of them but with eury being probably the most controversial slot in the game right now, it's the stuff that GP's done on the outside that really should be standing out, and your stuff just stands out more to me in that regard.

Wait, when are you doing Super Metroid, my Skype's being really dumb.

I'm pretty sure Marth tunnels people all of the time as scum since he has a hard time casing them. Everything else about your townread is fine, though.

Wasn't really fond of GP's posts either, it was really Mitsuki's posts that made me townread the slot.

[Refa]

Elieson why are you ignoring me I thought we had something special.

[Blitz]

Blitz: "I do not think the black knights were given fake flavors" what do you mean by this? I'm pretty sure SB would not make the game breakable by character claim.

it was a feeling I got based on reading my role PM and the lack of flavor hints I got to pick up and I wouldn't say the game is breakable by flavor hunting, if scum puts in effort to organize, but otherwise it might be. (not trying to say the mod did anything wrong, but the scumteam probably needed a meeting to sort things out first involving characters)

@Everyone, is it just me, or does it seem weird that Junko hasn't even tried to go for a direct confrontation with me?

Basically, I don't think Junko has even tried to ask me anything of importance directly (I will go into explaining a bit here, if I found someone scummy, I would want to find out more thoughts on said person to find the rest of scumteam and more incriminating evidence that would lead to more people believing the case) and feels more like he is leaving that read on me to say, "see, I have reads"

My read mainly comes from him not answering the question I asked after Baldrick's points

As for Marth, I feel like he is developing his thought process out of thread, but that isn't scummy. The only thing I found scummy was that question, which I would like him to answer.

Proto really needs to answer my question

also, I don't get your last question Elie

also, off to take the test and I really shouldn't be around at phase end (I mean, I could, but that would mean no sleep before the exam and I believe in getting a good night's rest before an exam helps)

should be around for a bit after exam ends though

[Refa]

@Everyone, is it just me, or does it seem weird that Junko hasn't even tried to go for a direct confrontation with me?

Basically, I don't think Junko has even tried to ask me anything of importance directly (I will go into explaining a bit here, if I found someone scummy, I would want to find out more thoughts on said person to find the rest of scumteam and more incriminating evidence that would lead to more people believing the case) and feels more like he is leaving that read on me to say, "see, I have reads"

My read mainly comes from him not answering the question I asked after Baldrick's points

I dunno, didn't really pay attention how Junko phrased his arguments; I agree it's scummy if what you're saying is true though, mostly because as town I tend to be more directly confrontational and as scum I uh...don't. Don't really want to do any ISO's until Elieson makes a response, but I'll do it afterwords (probably going to ISO GP/Mitsuki as well).

[Refa]

Also phase ends in like 24 hours, I thought. You won't be around for the entirety of tomorrow?

[Junk]

it was a feeling I got based on reading my role PM and the lack of flavor hints I got to pick up and I wouldn't say the game is breakable by flavor hunting, if scum puts in effort to organize, but otherwise it might be. (not trying to say the mod did anything wrong, but the scumteam probably needed a meeting to sort things out first involving characters)

@Everyone, is it just me, or does it seem weird that Junko hasn't even tried to go for a direct confrontation with me?

Basically, I don't think Junko has even tried to ask me anything of importance directly (I will go into explaining a bit here, if I found someone scummy, I would want to find out more thoughts on said person to find the rest of scumteam and more incriminating evidence that would lead to more people believing the case) and feels more like he is leaving that read on me to say, "see, I have reads"

My read mainly comes from him not answering the question I asked after Baldrick's points

As for Marth, I feel like he is developing his thought process out of thread, but that isn't scummy. The only thing I found scummy was that question, which I would like him to answer.

Proto really needs to answer my question

also, I don't get your last question Elie

also, off to take the test and I really shouldn't be around at phase end (I mean, I could, but that would mean no sleep before the exam and I believe in getting a good night's rest before an exam helps)

should be around for a bit after exam ends though

This is going to sound dumb but what do you mean? Do you think I phrased my arguements in a non aggressive manner or something because even with the explanation I have no idea what you're trying to say.

also you're confirmed town to me until those exams are done :P

Also speaking of marth I actually think Mitsuki makes a pretty good point on Marth in her #post 529 with saying how marth may have been trying to shoot down townreads with detailing a scenario on how poly may have claimed miller as scum.

I reread your(marth) post on why you liked mitsuki and idk it's hard to explain but the reasoning feels shallow. Why do you like mitsuki for not sticking her vote on someone?

[eclipse]

Post to say that my modem got busted, dunno when we're gonna fix that.

I might need a sub tbh , playing mafia off of phone balance is just awful for me.

Great timing. ;/

@Mitsuki, I was talking 45mins before phase ended, not 1 hour before that. Also, most people have sf signed in, so, whenever the check sf, it shows up. You would have to sign out and sign in again to go anon (j/s)

First thing I don't like from Blitz, because it's a faulty assumption. My browser is set to destroy all history and cookies on exit. Therefore, if I close my browser, and reopen it, I'm signed out. It's also possible to delete cookies while browsing elsewhere, effectively signing out of SF. If your line of thinking is that Eury would have to stay signed in because of that, I'll have to disagree with you. She could've very well erased her cookies, then gone back on SF without signing in.

Eury has content, so I don't mind scumreads off of that. When it comes to stuff like this, it feels like grasping.

Well, considering what happened D1 we should start to consolidate already.

I would support a lynch on Proto, Marth and Refa. I wouldn't support a lynch on anyone else, including Kay, since I don't think the slot will last much longer at this rate.

. . .agreed. Since the phase ends while I'm at work, consider this my final post (I might be able to wake up early and move my vote, but don't count on it).

My vote's on Marth, and I'm miffed that he requested a sub. Don't mind moving to Proto, as his last content post is pretty weak for this stage of the game (but it's better than nonexistent). I don't have an issue with Refa, and wouldn't support his lynch unless the only other option was No Lynch. Not really feeling any other lynches ATM, but it's hard to concentrate on mafia when I've got a nice shooting pain up my side.

Will be online for a bit more, to make sure that I don't have to do any more mod work, then I'm off to bed.

[Sunwoo]

Resident idiot checking in. I just ended up spilling a full cup of tea near my laptop, and I think some of it got into the keyboard. My laptop is working right now, but I have no idea if it'll randomly die on me anytime soon so if I don't show up for a few days that's most likely why.

[Refa]

Mreh, was keeping my vote on Elieson in the hopes that I'd pressure him, but there's not really any point in doing that since he's clearly not responding. Whatever. People I'd be OK with lynching at this point are RD, Proto, and maybe Elieson. Going to ISO them though so that all of my issues with them are in one place (also because I didn't really bother to prioritize any of these reads besides Elieson at the time, rather they're just people I'd be OK with lynching), as opposed to before where they were uh...a bit scattered. I'll check whatever Blitz was going on about WRT Junk and GP/Mitsuki too while I'm at it because why not.

##Unvote

[Green Poet]

I may be around for phase end. Would be willing to consolidate on a RD lynch. Having both of my top scumreads subbing out doesn't help with being able to further the cases, meh.

Refa is still managing to be a null read for me. Mitsuki would be willing to consolidate on Proto, and I think I'm okay with that.

Proto ISO and case:

(I liked the formatting from my response to Eury so I'm going to do that again here)

Proto's first game post:

"My vote wasn't serious. Even scum wouldn't be stupid enough to think they can earn towncred by posting entertaining videos that are unrelated to the game."

The wording feels off, considering that the dominant scum faction is informed, and less liable than town to make any stupid mistakes/posts. The vibe I get from this is very minor and somewhat difficult to describe, but I feel as though the wording tries to disassociate Proto from scum, as well as Proto from responsibility of his RVS vote ("My vote wasn't serious." But all RVS votes aren't serious, just like the one he proceeds to comment on...?). The video discussed here was clearly a joke, so that it warranted a mention worded in this way is just... odd.

Reply to Eury (that I initially, and for most of D1, considered very townie):

"Also, players can't be expected to have some deep thought and strong justification in every single post they make, so I find it pretty weird that you're asking me to justify what seems to be a normal response from hearing somebody else claim. Did you find my question to Poly to be suspicious or odd in some way?"

As I've explained probably a couple times before, this struck me as townie because it's a blunt admission of having no reads. I reasoned that scum would try and come up with at least some half-assed response to every question instead of openly saying "No, you're right, I don't have strong ideas right now." However, such a conclusion is not inclusive of a situation in which scum tries to deflect the responsibility of having unique or insightful posts, which is what Proto is possibly doing here. "I find it pretty weird that you're asking me to justify X" can just as easily serve the same rhetorical purpose as "I don't want to/can't justify X."

"Did you find my question to Poly to be suspicious or odd in some way?" This is a question scum asks when they want to know if they've triggered alarms. It's a self-centered question that aims to gather information about other players' impressions on themselves, rather than what others think about their question (which should be more important to town).

Proto's Boron/eclipse case:

"I don't like how she reacted to Paper's scum hydra theory. Sure, it's not definitively known whether SB would allow 3 Town Hydras or not, but this is Day 1 and we don't have any other definite information. So I wouldn't just disregard the idea as being "dumb" right off the bat. Well, considering that the scum hydra theory makes her one of the three lynch targets, I'm not surprised that she'd try to break that logic (even if she were Town), but I still think she looks worse than PoetMitsuki."

This is scummy because it votes one player (Boronclipse slot) for a reason that could be exactly applied to another player (GP/M slot), but ignores the second player entirely. As in, you could literally replace the last word of this quote with "Boron/eclipse" and it would still make perfect sense.

Proto doesn't list me as a scum read because "Poet seems to be pretty active and has been trying to approach everything in a clear logical manner (which is not necessarily townish, but it looks really good)." This doesn't explain specifically how I am acting logical, and he even qualifies this read by stating how it's not necessarily indicative of my towniness (but if that's true, why am I exempt from the same reasoning that he formed his last scumread around?). The difference is that I expressed a townread on Proto earlier. Scum!Proto benefits from having a townie buddy, so he wouldn't alienate them by grouping me together with his Boronclipse scumread, but town!Proto would have no reason to hold back on calling me out for doing the same thing Boronclipse did, since town!Proto would believe in the scuminess of the tell.

Short post directly after the last:

"(my post looks so big, despite having almost no content; Sorry, I'm not trying to pretend like I'm contributing a lot. I know I'm contributing almost nothing because I'm generally not a fan of Day 1 logic)"

Just a display of self-consciousness. Theoretically a null tell but I think people can relate to how scum might end up posting this, especially after Proto's previous post which had some pretty selective scumreading, so scum!Proto could've posted this because the error bothered him.

Flavorspec:

"But anyway, I think SB was mainly setting up based on R1 or the first half of R2. I doubt he'd put spoilery stuff that are only valid for the second half. With Orange being suspected of being loyal to Rurushu, I'd say Miller is the perfect role for him."

Basically, this attempts to validate that Orange = Miller. Proto telling Poly "Orange works as Miller, you're good" also attempts to validate that Poly = Orange. So Proto can be assumed to be pushing the idea that Poly = Miller, thus Poly = town. This tells us that it is not likely for Poly to be town/Miller if Proto is mafia, since clearing a townie would work against scum!Proto's wincon.

Comment on Elieson's reaction test:

"Also, if Elieson didn't actually roleblock Mitsuki, then I find his fakeclaim of doing so as being really weird. Reaction test or not, falsely claiming that he roleblocked Mitsuki sounds like a really stupid move. I hope he can elaborate on that once he's online."

"really weird" and "a really stupid move" don't describe why Proto's specifically bothered by this.

I think this is particularly telling because it emphasizes that lying is bad, rather than that the reaction test is bad. I don't see why lying would be inherently bad, or so obviously bad that Proto can assume people understand why just from him calling the gambit "really weird/really stupid." Asking Elieson to elaborate feels like rolefishing, like Proto's effectively saying "It would be bad if you lied. So you should confirm if you lied or not, and tell me if you're actually a hooker."

TL;DR - would be ok with consolidating towards Proto. This scumread is still fairly weaker than my Marth read.

[Green Poet]

I think someone asked when I was going to ISO Junko and... someone else, maybe Boron/eclipse? I'll get to them when I can; for now, Mitsuki and I are more or less townreading both slots.

[Refa]

That's quite the turnaround on your Proto read.

[Refa]

Like there's a difference between having your read naturally change (heck, I was townreading two of my former scumreads, RD & Proto, previously but their recent content is like...well yeah) and forcefully changing your opinion? You're literally going back and saying that stuff that he did that you once considered townie is now scummy because why. Two of your points are based solely on his early game content (that's wherein my townread came from, and the reason that I felt more comfortable scumreading him is that early game content generally isn't as telling...so it's weird that a good deal of your case is based on that), the second to last one is something Proto just does (and you can't say that you don't know about this, because people have been pointing it on in the thread since forever) and the last one is just...he's not actually rolefishing? Proto's Boron/eclipse case was bad but what you listed wasn't scummy it's just meh. Also what about his latest post? Surely that'd be worthy of some analysis...

[Green Poet]

indeed it is, though I guess my initial proto townread was pretty shallow since it was based around like only one post.

anyway, thoughts?

off to sleep now tho, it's almost 4 in the morning here

[Green Poet]

will respond to that first

"Like there's a difference between having your read naturally change (heck, I was townreading two of my former scumreads, RD & Proto, previously but their recent content is like...well yeah) and forcefully changing your opinion?"

true, i'm very influenced by mitsuki and her reads

though I mean it's w/e, I too would prefer it if my reads had the opportunity to change more gradually but this read wasn't formed based on me reacting to proto's posts as they came out, but rather all at once from me ISOing him. so that's why it probably feels sudden

"You're literally going back and saying that stuff that he did that you once considered townie is now scummy because why."

see proto case for the whys/reasons

"Two of your points are based solely on his early game content (that's wherein my townread came from, and the reason that I felt more comfortable scumreading him is that early game content generally isn't as telling...so it's weird that a good deal of your case is based on that), the second to last one is something Proto just does (and you can't say that you don't know about this, because people have been pointing it on in the thread since forever) and the last one is just...he's not actually rolefishing?"

sounds like you're going out of your way to defend proto tbh.

particularly when you say "you can't say that you don't know about this, because people have been pointing it on in the thread since forever" I get the feeling that you're opposed to me making and following up on this case. do you think proto is town? why?

"Also what about his latest post? Surely that'd be worthy of some analysis..."

It just says "oh I forgot people want to hear my townreads, I'm townreading GP/M and boron/eclipse"

not sure what in particular is interesting about this. I mean, he is voting the same person that his townreads are voting, so that's a thing. is there something specific about this that you meant to draw my attention to?

[Refa]

To put it simply, your case bothers me. The problem is I'm scumreading Proto as well, so I'm not sure how to reconcile the two thoughts. Probably should get about doing that ISO instead of faffing about here. Surely him having just townreads and barely any scumreads that he's pushed to be more worhty of a scumread than nitpicking his earlier content, though?

[Green Poet]

"Surely him having just townreads and barely any scumreads that he's pushed to be more worhty of a scumread than nitpicking his earlier content, though?"

actually this is true

I feel like I would've said something about this earlier actually. maybe it's because I just cased RD for the exact same reason (has a townread but no scumreads) and had talked about that general concept, that I glossed over the same issue with Proto.

[Mitsuki]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people who seem lynch candidates are Eury, Marth, Proto and maybe Elie.

Let's all make a small summary of our reads on each of them. If someone else believes we should talk about an additional player, say so and I'll summarize my thoughts on them as well.

@mod: could the hammer rules be changed from "majority" to "player with the most votes at the end of the phase gets lynched"? Requesting this because 2 players are inactive/need subs and 2 others are potentially unable to post (Marth and Boron/Eclipse).

[Refa]

Radiant Dragon as well. Eclipse should be able to post unless I missed something.

[Baldrick]

Surely him having just townreads and barely any scumreads that he's pushed to be more worhty of a scumread than nitpicking his earlier content, though?

I'm not so sure, I think more competent scum leave subtle clues. Nitpicking can be useful if you do it right.

GP's case is the good kind of nitpicking because it's trying to think like scum would instead of just saying why it's bad. Some of it is a stretch, but I liked these parts in particular.

This is a question scum asks when they want to know if they've triggered alarms

.

Scum!Proto benefits from having a townie buddy,

so he wouldn't alienate them by grouping me together with his Boronclipse scumread,

I had a weak town meta-read on him before, but the cases on him have been good so would consolidate on him.

PEDIT: If D2 has a similar turnout a hammer requirement may make things tricky. But it's not the mod's fault certain people couldn't give a shit, so.

Eury

- Her reads lack conviction

- Her listposts are mostly filler reads

- Doesn't look at context

- Tries to discredit people without directly attacking them

Marth

- Lots of repeating others and generally passive on D1

- Paper thinks he's town

RD

- Whatever GP said before

- Odd defensive reaction to Junk ED2

Elie

- His reads were agreeable, and his tone seemed genuine frustration

[Elieson]

Ugh fuck me. Elieson, why did you even do this to me? Replies below.

-Scum would consolidate on Kirsche even if Eury was town because Eury was probably not going to get lynched lol. This pretty much counters all of your bulletpoints so go me, I'm a fucking genius. Basically how the fuck does this prove me wrong.

-I mean I was voting Eury at deadline before I consolidated on kirsche so I don't know man, why don't you tell me whether I found Eury scummy for her earlier play or her lack of participation around deadline?

-Honestly, if you're town, I quit scumhunting forever.

-You said you hooked Mitsuki on a No Kill night. The logical conclusion is that you hooked Scum!Mitsuki, so what gives with you saying that you "didn't accuse her of anything"? Anyways, you do raise a good point here. I don't get why Mitsuki offered to claim either, especially considering she knew that you didn't hook her. Props though because this point seemed really genuine (by that I don't mean "wow, what an awesome point" but rather that I can see like the thought process behind it, even if I don't really agree with most of it).

-I don't get Junk's townslip, can you elaborate on that?

-Voting is a nulltell. Proto isn't bad because he hasn't voted, he's bad because he hasn't made an effort to progress the game all day.

-Hahahahaha, you could have TOTALLY claimed that you hooked scum on D1. Elie please, don't try and fool us.

-Why would Bluedoom explaining his Eurykins read make him townier?

-Ready for me fucking mind to be blown, sir!

-You could have admitted it was a reaction test far earlier and to me, it read like you were just trying to see if anyone CC'd you before deciding whether you'd pretend that you were a hooker or say it was a fakeclaim. Admittedly you actually got something out of your reads, so mreh.

-Uh...just because I didn't say it was based on my earlier points, doesn't mean it's not. Like nowhere did I say "man now my entire case on Elieson is ruined", so this is just basically just you nitpicking my wording.

-Actually you didn't really prove my theory wrong lol. But anyways, even if I was wrong, being confident in something that's wrong isn't scummy. However, since I'm right as usual, it's a moot point.

-Uh...I've read like every player in the game. I have like, maybe one null read on Kay. So no, I don't have a bunch of null reads. How have I become less confident on my scumread on you? The only thing that shook me up was your reaction test (which is like, duh). It's like, you're seriously misrepping my content here (intentionally or not), and it's annoying me. How have I offered very little in my reads elsewhere? It's like ugh, I spend forever making these posts and then people are like "yeah Refa is just being very passive and he's not offering any unique reads and man why couldn't he scumhunt harder" and it's so obnoxious.

-Wait, your reads parallel mine? The only person I've been bothered been whose reads have paralleled mine was kirsche.

-Basically your conclusion is super forced. It's like ugh...I can't make a calm response to it.

-I didn't vote you for your reaction test, did I?

Conclusion: Honestly, I still think your case on me is shit and worse, misreps some of my actions, but like...ugh. I've never really seen you put so much effort into defending your cases as scum (only as ITP, but lol) and you did bring up some good points (also more importantly, not sure if you'd scumread two of the most townread people as scum, especially if you were trying to save scumbuddy Eury from a mislynch...which was the impression I got from you). Mreh, would still like a response from you before I reevaluate my reads.

Oh, I missed one of Elie's posts. FYI, it didn't factor into my previous conclusion.

-How is it Blitz being unconfident townie lol. That's such a dumb reason to townread someone (even if the conclusion is right). For example, Radiant Dragon was like SUPER UNCONFIDENT in your own game that just ended and he was scum.

-And uh...huh. Everything else either wasn't really noteworthy or I agreed with. That's something, I guess.

Didn't really change my conclusion though. I mean, he had more points I agreed with, but they didn't seem as telling as the previous ones anyways.

[spoiler=damnit]

so my hard drive finally exploded on me last night thanks computer but i've been backing everything up with the exception of a few tumblr pics methodically so i maybe lost like a handful of .jpgs and nothing important was lost like family pics and stuff and i've tried to phone post 4 times and recieved calls in the middle of all 4 of my phoneposts which since my phone is a relic even by super nintendo standards, it deletes the post i was making since it has to refresh the page and mobile view doesn't have a draft system so ugh rant post so you're getting one liners not a major wallpost like i had been trying to do

dont worry refa super metroid was played off of my external HD which has like everything saved on it including all my roms and shit

[spoiler=refoundation responses]

Ugh fuck me. Elieson, why did you even do this to me? Replies below.

-Scum would consolidate on Kirsche even if Eury was town because Eury was probably not going to get lynched lol. This pretty much counters all of your bulletpoints so go me, I'm a fucking genius. Basically how the fuck does this prove me wrong.

-I mean I was voting Eury at deadline before I consolidated on kirsche so I don't know man, why don't you tell me whether I found Eury scummy for her earlier play or her lack of participation around deadline?

-Honestly, if you're town, I quit scumhunting forever.

-You said you hooked Mitsuki on a No Kill night. The logical conclusion is that you hooked Scum!Mitsuki, so what gives with you saying that you "didn't accuse her of anything"? Anyways, you do raise a good point here. I don't get why Mitsuki offered to claim either, especially considering she knew that you didn't hook her. Props though because this point seemed really genuine (by that I don't mean "wow, what an awesome point" but rather that I can see like the thought process behind it, even if I don't really agree with most of it).

-I don't get Junk's townslip, can you elaborate on that?

-Voting is a nulltell. Proto isn't bad because he hasn't voted, he's bad because he hasn't made an effort to progress the game all day.

-Hahahahaha, you could have TOTALLY claimed that you hooked scum on D1. Elie please, don't try and fool us.

-Why would Bluedoom explaining his Eurykins read make him townier?

-Ready for me fucking mind to be blown, sir!

-You could have admitted it was a reaction test far earlier and to me, it read like you were just trying to see if anyone CC'd you before deciding whether you'd pretend that you were a hooker or say it was a fakeclaim. Admittedly you actually got something out of your reads, so mreh.

-Uh...just because I didn't say it was based on my earlier points, doesn't mean it's not. Like nowhere did I say "man now my entire case on Elieson is ruined", so this is just basically just you nitpicking my wording.

-Actually you didn't really prove my theory wrong lol. But anyways, even if I was wrong, being confident in something that's wrong isn't scummy. However, since I'm right as usual, it's a moot point.

-Uh...I've read like every player in the game. I have like, maybe one null read on Kay. So no, I don't have a bunch of null reads. How have I become less confident on my scumread on you? The only thing that shook me up was your reaction test (which is like, duh). It's like, you're seriously misrepping my content here (intentionally or not), and it's annoying me. How have I offered very little in my reads elsewhere? It's like ugh, I spend forever making these posts and then people are like "yeah Refa is just being very passive and he's not offering any unique reads and man why couldn't he scumhunt harder" and it's so obnoxious.

-Wait, your reads parallel mine? The only person I've been bothered been whose reads have paralleled mine was kirsche.

-Basically your conclusion is super forced. It's like ugh...I can't make a calm response to it.

-I didn't vote you for your reaction test, did I?

Conclusion: Honestly, I still think your case on me is shit and worse, misreps some of my actions, but like...ugh. I've never really seen you put so much effort into defending your cases as scum (only as ITP, but lol) and you did bring up some good points (also more importantly, not sure if you'd scumread two of the most townread people as scum, especially if you were trying to save scumbuddy Eury from a mislynch...which was the impression I got from you). Mreh, would still like a response from you before I reevaluate my reads.

• that's part of what i meant; mitsuki was throwing things out all over the place and by the time it looked like her kirsche vote wasn't gonna stick, it ended up being the lynch. it doesn't prove you right, so it's not worth throwing out the window and ignoring
• well ok something something logic for end-phase behavior being more of a refactor to you than her play which you still don't seem to find that scummy from what i can gather, but you've since gone from "wow eury isn't posting how weird" to "eury's obviously telling the truth regardless of alignment" which doesn't read as a statement backing up a read nullification
• gg i'll just stick to snes streaming with you then
• finally i did a reaction test that brought my thoughts and efforts some fruit to share with the masses
• junko's trying to assume responsibility for something that went wrong; it's like the two people who fight to hold open the door at a store in Disney, it's not something you say/do unless you have positive intentions. it just isn't. ok that's a bad analogy but that's my point more or less. why would junko want to take the heat off of mitsuki and bring it on to himself as scum. no one else brought it up and people were evidently posting
• proto's bad for like 12 reasons and those are valid
• I COULD HAVE flat out claimed hooker but i one i'm not claiming it and two my dodginess of the topic did serve its purpose with garnering said reaction
• marth explaining his eury read would have made him scummier, kind of like how GP is scummier for this huge proto case that she has. it doesn't fit with the playstyle and gameplay and current foundation of scumreads. it's like, you've been looking at somebody through tinted lenses, and suddenly this massive case out of nowhere just happened to fall on your lap regarding X. it just wouldn't make sense
• i didn't expect any CC because this is a large game and there's no reason why there can't be two hooking roles in a game (hook/jail i guess). if someone had cc'd me i'd have been absolutely stunned. this isn't an open setup; so i'd have to be cc'd by a full time blocking role and a jack with a hook before things would've gone south, and that would mean that both of those roles need to exist and be townsided for there to be any benefit in cc'ing to begin with. The likelyhood of me dragging out two claims with mine seemed really unlikely (this is my standout point so i want you and anyone else with doubts on me to understand the validity behind this, even if you're just skimming my post)
• semantics matter though; it's how people interpret "x is doing dumb things" and "x is doing bad things" as scumread. hell that kind of statement interpretation right there is why people are so hit/miss on the eury debacle right now. i'm not going to ignore vocabulary choice when there's always a reason why people phrase things in the ways that they do; especially if they're acting quickly to spit out a post
• you'd been called out on having a buncha jokas null reads already, but i'll bite on this. i get the feeling from reading your posts in both ISO and context that you've got more null leaning town reads, so you just don't have many places that you feel are worth throwing down a vote. you have this which is a reads post I guess but what stuck out to me was this earlier post, which it took a long time for you to advance your reads beyond "Eury and eh maybe marth and kirsche i guess". both of these posts, which are probably your more concise and read-inclusive posts have kirsche casing which you don't really even seem interested in, and eury casing which like idk. the first half of your ISO features struggles wrt kirsche, and eury casing and the second half is eury + elie for me just playing weird. the next most concise read you have is what looks like a sheep on RD. either you have a bunch of townreads you're not restating since the middle of D1 or you're just really confused which for the amount of posting you've done i just don't see that
• by parallel i mean like yours and mine are r- i meant perpendicular, but i don't know if that's actually a phrase?
• i dunno what to tell you bruh
• you opened the day with a vote on me, unvoted, and then revoted for me for not explaining my reaction test so i don't know how you want me to answer this last point other than yea you did

Oh, I missed one of Elie's posts. FYI, it didn't factor into my previous conclusion.

-How is it Blitz being unconfident townie lol. That's such a dumb reason to townread someone (even if the conclusion is right). For example, Radiant Dragon was like SUPER UNCONFIDENT in your own game that just ended and he was scum.

-And uh...huh. Everything else either wasn't really noteworthy or I agreed with. That's something, I guess.

Didn't really change my conclusion though. I mean, he had more points I agreed with, but they didn't seem as telling as the previous ones anyways.

• no i'm saying blitz is confident, which is a town thing. i think you either misunderstood me or you're blatantly misrepping me eclipse quick ban this guy for allowing me to use the word misrep towards him
• k?

---

WITH SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF REFASPONSES;

GP that's the most convoluted and specific consolidation vote i've seen in a long time. Why did you go through that much effort for a consolidation vote? It seems a bit way over-justified

i'm pretty sure I explained my position and his last post really didn't do him any favors. i mean unless proto's still mentally stuck in day one or smth is like the only excuse

that being said, I would with confidence do

##Unvote

##Vote Proto

[Elieson]

wow i screwed up that spoiler

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people who seem lynch candidates are Eury, Marth, Proto and maybe Elie.

Let's all make a small summary of our reads on each of them. If someone else believes we should talk about an additional player, say so and I'll summarize my thoughts on them as well.

@mod: could the hammer rules be changed from "majority" to "player with the most votes at the end of the phase gets lynched"? Requesting this because 2 players are inactive/need subs and 2 others are potentially unable to post (Marth and Boron/Eclipse).

Eury- her wallposts are in her typical town style for all of her posts and comments on just about everybody, i get the feel that her posts would feature a lot more slandering/mudthrowing as scum than as town just pointing out things that irk her. it's like she's not super-advocating for lynches, but she's putting herself out there and bringing a lot of attention towards herself and those she's breaking down.

Marth- inactive due to phone posting, but just not behaving scummily, playing more like demotivated than struggling to fish for reads

Proto- reads as really struggling to produce content, and doing even less to bring anything out into the open

Elie- a real bro and sharp son of a gun, with a pocket full of wallposts that put eury to shame and game second only to hidden!prims

@mod: this please. with sub counts the way they are and current computer problems, it'd be appreciated rather than a universal loss by subrequest

[MRDRHAWK]

Phoneposting is still shit guys just to let you know

I'm super demotivated in this game and honestly can't be fucked to read the Elie walls and other such wallposts. I did notice one thing skimming through, but it's not really a consequential thing. If we have scum dead by D3, I'm probably gonna try and get more motivated.

Since IDK if I'll be around SF for phase end, I'm just gonna do this.

##Unvote

##Vote: Proto

And actually, my reasons are contradictory to Mitsuki's. Proto's alignment is not indicative of mine, nor my alignment of his, due to a quirk in the miller part of my role (which I really don't think needs to be claimed).

If Proto flips scum, though, I wanna turbo RD tomorrow. I'll make my reasons for that (and by extension my ACTUAL reason for going Proto aside from consolidation) known.