video series FE6 Reverse Recruitment Low Turns

[Carmine Sword]

Geese actually contributed towards achieving a low turn count. Who would have thought?

Edited April 28, 2015 by Carmine Sword

[Lord Raven]

have, not of*

Anyway, I don't think anyone really cares all that much, but thanks to zorbees I was alerted to a lack of Sue in that document. I have just taken care of that (and given my other gmail permission to edit the doc, the one I use primarily).

[Espinosa]

Hugh will enjoy that elfire tome

He can actually double and 2HKO the chapter 9 boss with it... Not that it matters, considering he has the time to engage him in combat 4 (!) times during the last two turns of the map.

I saw that Sue was absent; for some reason I thought she'd be Bartre's replacement and come unpromoted. But that's actually Dorothy, which kinda sucks (not that you'd wait for "Bartre" anyway).

Also, a question about the HM bonuses generating... I understand it's controlled by the current state of the RNG, but is it the same way with level-ups as you need lower RNs to have higher stats? I was just having a test run through chapter 13 (basically just waited for turn 3 on one place) and Clarine had +1 in seemingly every stat compared to Lord Raven's spreadsheet for Hard Mode.

Clarine looks really damn good regardless of what stats the RNG gives her - 8-9 mag is a bit too low. At least she can level up.

I wonder which one of Clarine and Ellen I should focus on training. Ellen has the best initial Warp/Rescue range, but her combat is noticeably poorer, and she's not mounted. Clarine is likely not one-rounding anything with Fire tomes either. Both do gain experience pretty quickly in their promoted classes.

[Irysa]

Also, a question about the HM bonuses generating... I understand it's controlled by the current state of the RNG, but is it the same way with level-ups as you need lower RNs to have higher stats? I was just having a test run through chapter 13 (basically just waited for turn 3 on one place) and Clarine had +1 in seemingly every stat compared to Lord Raven's spreadsheet for Hard Mode.

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Generating_Enemy_Stats_%28GBA%29

Here's how I think this translates into more simple terms.

Shin on Chapter 9 (vanilla) gets 8 HM bonus levels.

Male Nomad class growth in speed is 45%

.45 * 8 = 3.6

An RN determines whether you get 7/8, 8/8 or 9/8 for total growth rate. I'm not really sure how this is determined. I think that it may do something like this.

Calculate all the possible total growth rates.(.45 * 7 = 3.15), (.45 * 8 = 3.6) (.45 * 9 = 4.05) - Having those totals, numbers from 0 to 4 would count as 9/8, numbers from 5 to 19 would count as 7/8, and numbers beyond that count as 8/8. It may be backwards though, I really don't know. This makes the most sense to me since the 8/8 range is generally the most common for enemy levels, they only flux down or up rarely.

Then another RN determines the actual stat you get would be using the total growth rate. So if you get 4.05, then Shin gets four certified levels of speed, and has a 5% chance (RN between 0 to 4) to get a fifth speed proc. If you get 3.6, Shin gets 3 certified levels of speed and has a 60% chance (RN between 0 to 59) to get a 4th speed proc. If you get 3.15, there's 3 certified and only 15% chance for the 4th (RN between 0 to 14).

Edited April 29, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

Well, that certainly sounds harder and more mystifying than I'd assumed. I guess I'll just fiddle around with turn 2 PP until I get stats that don't blow too much.

Currently recording chapter 12x (which I 3-turned), and I should have a new video uploaded to add to the playlist tomorrow. I had to promote Karel, but Miledy and Dayan are waiting for more good level-ups to kick in before they do the same.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Espinosa

[Excellen Browning]

Both Ellen and Clarine will essentially serve as staffbots. Insta-promoted Clarine has 2 move over Ellen, Ellen has 2 warp range over Clarine. They can mostly reach the same spots. Ellen has a big lead in mag growth though, and also doesn't cost a guiding ring which could otherwise be sold for boots (or other statboosters I guess), so I reckon Ellen will be the better choice.

[Yojinbo]

You don't actually need to promote Clarine though.

[Espinosa]

tbqh I do want to promote Clarine regardless. She's probably not too far from one-rounding AKs (against whom I'm really short on ways to kill), and she'll be my replacement for the Physic staff until Sacae with her high movement, except actually quite able to fight (=dodgetank and counter with weakish fire).

Also, don't quote me on this if I end up failing but I feel like it's not entirely impossible to 3-turn chapter 13 while visiting the armoury for killer weaponry.

WTF

Is it even right for the boss to be away from the gate on turn 3 after Clarine chases after Karel? Because I can totally just ignore him and have Karel seize right there. I'm also pretty eerily close to being able to attack Zephiel on turn 2...

Remind me if Flaer behinds the same way on vanilla (I don't recall that but I'm nowhere as close to that part of the map by turn 3 because no double dancers so of course I can't remember such a thing), and if it's not a mistake then I think a 3-turn might well be a thing if the cavs don't block the dancers' way to more dance fun.

edit:

and here's turn 4

Edited April 29, 2015 by Espinosa

[Irysa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir_Qawd3jh4&feature=youtu.be

This map is pretty glitchy if you get too far ahead too quickly, so yes. Watch out for the noise at about 1 minute.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

The funniest thing I've discovered dicking around this map thus far is what happens if Karel is airborne after turn 2 when Clarine is supposed to recruit herself. She prances all the way to where the party starts the chapter, leaves the screen and you see her recruitment dialogue. After that, she vanishes into thin air...

And with Flaer away from the throne as he apparently should be (I get neither the piercing noise nor the glitched up visuals, but maybe I haven't seen everything yet), I guess a 3-turn with the killers isn't as elusive as I'd previously thought. Not sure if I'll have to promote my L10 Miledy though (if I do, she'll have "only" 18 str/16 spd, which is a bit too low for my needs, I think).

[Mekkah]

Have you tried putting Karel's carrier in a spot Clarine can reach? In vanilla, Miledy flies to the person rescuing Roy.

[Espinosa]

It's just something I was astonished to notice; not a problem or anything. If Karel is held by a non-airborne unit, the recruitment will take place just as planned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5i_K75oPXk

And here comes the 3-turn of chapter 8x. It's funny how in spite of all this domination, we never honoured Hugh's right to promote. Maybe because +1 spd on promo is a bit too low to consume such an expensive item? +4 mag is sorta overkill most of the time, too.

[Excellen Browning]

You can always promote him later.

[chococoke]

Definitely wait on Hugh, he's already quite beast. Also Karel is starting to look downright competent :o

[PKL]

Are Hugh's growths that amazing or is he just ridiculously blessed? Growth page doesnt load for me atm.

[Ansem]

SCUM

i wanted to see promoted Hugh

[chococoke]

Espi's Hugh levels have been pretty ridiculous. I don't recall one that didn't involve at least MAG and SPD.

Vanilla (max payment/stats) Hugh arrives at level 15 and has -5 MAG and -4 SPD compared to this playthrough's Hugh.

[Irysa]

Hugh having 9 Mag to start with at level 2 in this is kinda ridiculous when you consider Lugh comes with 4.

And here comes the 3-turn of chapter 8x. It's funny how in spite of all this domination, we never honoured Hugh's right to promote. Maybe because +1 spd on promo is a bit too low to consume such an expensive item? +4 mag is sorta overkill most of the time, too.

Well promoting him won't save turns will it? That's the main idea behind doing it at any point really.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

Hugh has pretty good bases in RR but he's also gotten a lot of exp and blessed level ups in this run so it's no surprise he's doing so well. Might be worth promoting him at this rate but idk.

Edit: He also survived some nasty enemy phases fwiw. But I think Hugh could actually save turns with bolting crithax because afaik he gets displayed crit on bosses via supports. I don't think Espi is gonna run them though.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Yojinbo

[Excellen Browning]

One thing worth noting though is that he has 9 skl right now, at level 15, which means he only procced it twice, and had 36 disp. hit on Henning with a fire tome. As far as I'm aware he is a pretty good representative for how much avo the more dodgy bosses have, so I'm kind of curiuos to see how much more bosskilling Hugh will end up being involved with.

[Espinosa]

Are Hugh's growths that amazing or is he just ridiculously blessed? Growth page doesnt load for me atm.

He joined with pretty nice bases and, unlike Niime, could engage enemies without fearing OHKOs from everything so I used him to chip in and occasionally

tbqh a level-up without a proc in either str/mag or spd is kind of a waste of time, and I try to avoid these at all times unless the main objectives are tough to achieve. For example, in chapter 4 Hugh got a simple +spd (and nothing else) level-up, and while I wanted to have something better instead that was my only way of re-arranging units' actions / equipment / positions so that the enemy phase would end without anyone dying.

But really, I didn't even go out of my way to get Hugh really good level-ups most of the time, in the same way as I would go out of my way to get Zeiss and Miledy ones. A lot of it is luck, a lot of it is high bases (when you have 9 mag as a 2/0 unit, you can sorta expect a really good unit when it snowballs), and then there's being the right unit for enemy phase ORKOing which results in big exp and some growth in stats across the board.

Growths though? 30% mag / 45% spd / 20% def. Mine is pretty bulky apparently, but having low HP still means attacks will hurt.

Hugh having 9 Mag to start with at level 2 in this is kinda ridiculous when you consider Lugh comes with 4.

Well promoting him won't save turns will it? That's the main idea behind doing it at any point really.

My point precisely! Having low growths can be really good on somebody who joins late in vanilla. Dayan is another example of that.

I think many contributions are valuable even if they don't "save turns". For one, if a unit can fight / ORKO reliably / not die, that means other units could try to push their luck and get something out of it. Running a full army of unreliable units is a nightmare with limited RNG control.

One thing worth noting though is that he has 9 skl right now, at level 15, which means he only procced it twice, and had 36 disp. hit on Henning with a fire tome. As far as I'm aware he is a pretty good representative for how much avo the more dodgy bosses have, so I'm kind of curiuos to see how much more bosskilling Hugh will end up being involved with.

It's an Elfire tome actually, so he has 56 displayed hit with Fire, and that's actually better than just about anybody else in the party. The reason why I carried him to Henning instead of somebody like Percival is that Percival would need to proc a Killing Edge crit to still do less damage (the def/res gap is pretty big even when throne gives +3 def/+5 res), so this was a lot more likely to succeed (he still needs to dodge either Henning or his Aircalibur-spamming mage lackey but he has plenty of avo too). Before Karel gains more levels, nobody can really face bosses anywhere as well (he actually doubles them too).

[Espinosa]

Just cleared chapter 14x in 2 turns, and right now it looks like it isn't such a huge problem to train Clarine - being a dodgetank that doubles everything helps her get kills even if she can't ORKO (building tome rank doesn't help her ORKOs much when Thunder has only +1 power). I should be able to get her around a level each chapter, I think. She does seem more promising than Ellen statwise, and Ellen's mag advantage should be almost, if not completely, gone by the time she's recruited.

Also, I'm hoarding the following stat boosters:

2x Speedwings

1x Talisman

1x Angelic Robe

Not quite sure what to do with these and whether it'd be a good idea to sell them. +7 HP wouldn't hurt anyone but I can hardly think of a single suitable recipient that really wants it (maybe Dayan?). A Talisman would help Zeiss's poor res stat, but I'm not sure if I'll never have a Restore user around / how much these 2 points will matter. Finally, Zeiss, Clarine and Karel are so close to their respective speed caps that finding somebody to dump the Speedwings into is hard (maybe Lugh so that he could double with siege?). Miledy is at 17 AS right now, which could probably be higher but there's quite a bit of playing ahead of us.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

So I went and checked Ellen's stats and saw:

No Hard Mode bonuses, which makes sense considering Hugh never got his in the original either. However, I don't really get where Lord Raven got his Ellen (HM) stats from... Maybe they get higher when you pay her the full sum of money? With Hugh, I believe his stats would actually decrease when you paid him less...

11 mag just sucks though, and my Clarine already has +2 above that, plus she can actually fight pretty well. I guess I won't really be using Ellen at all, though I still need to pay for her recruitment considering she has the Holy Maiden staff, which noone can use but is needed for the good ending anyway.

[Lord Raven]

Was wondering that as well when I looked through my document. I think I may have just checked the Nightmare stats and assumed HM bonuses. I won't edit it just yet, I'm hoping you can do some play testing and figure out what's up with them.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Yojinbo]

Holy Maiden is pretty useful in the final chapter and 22. Ellen probably won't be able to reach S-Rank for staves but Saul might be able to use Holy Maiden by the time it comes in handy.