3rd Tier Classes

[Yunanuy]

I read about the Hoshido-path allowing grinding, then the Nohr-path being more restrictive and so on... Then the six skill slots got me thinking.

Each class grants two skills each (See where I'm going with this?).

Is it possible that Second Seals (because broken) have been removed from the game, and we have 3rd tier classes allowing to fill the six skill slots up? I know Ryouma has a Swordmaster sprite, but he could be a possible Trueblade (or be able to promote to one), same with Marx going Gold/Silver Knight.

Another possibility could be to limit Second Seals to 2nd (and/or 3rd) tier classes for postgame shenanigans. It was obvious that Second Seals were broken, and the fact that they are introducing enemy Pair Ups seems to me like they're trying to fix their mistakes. Pair Ups and Second Seals is where I would start at least.

Other random thoughts:

Since the game is centered on you as the main character, the 3rd promote for Dark Prince might as well be Emperor once you dethrone Garon/Gallon.

The 3rd path will have both Mamui and Femui available allowing for selfcest.

IS got Kamui's inspiration from Saint Seiya.

Look at this:

They're known in Seiyaverse as KAMUI, the "God Cloth".

[Mango Giamatti]

Honestly, I would prefer third tier over second seals, but I don't think it's likely. If third tiers did exist then the game will have to scale levels very quickly, which makes growth characters more difficult to use.

[Awakener_]

The introduction of new classes is probably why they added in a extra slot, since more classes equal more skills. That picture of kamui possessing 3 skills by level 11 probably mean reclassing is back as base class give only two skills (First skill is free and second by level 10).

If Hoshido allowing players to freely developed their units AKA reclassing, I don't see why one version will have second seal while the other won't.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Awakener_

[Yunanuy]

Honestly, I would prefer third tier over second seals, but I don't think it's likely. If third tiers did exist then the game will have to scale levels very quickly, which makes growth characters more difficult to use.

True..but I was kinda imagining the different storylines working similar to Sacred Stones or something. Characters passing in between the different sides, levels passing over?

The introduction of new classes is probably why they added in a extra slot, since more classes equal more skills. That picture of kamui possessing 3 skills by level 11 probably mean reclassing is back as base class give only two skills (First skill is free and second by level 10).

If Hoshido allowing players to freely developed their units AKA reclassing, I don't see why one version will have second seal while the other won't.

That makes a lot of sense, but also a bit stupid as it just makes it easier to be more overpowered. In the same vein though, I guess this goes for your enemies as well (but they don't know how to combine skills so eh). The slots could also be for "action" skills like Dance.

Okeh, let me explain. If you look at the skills here:

My thoughts are that the skills in the top row are the level 1 and level 10 skills, while the third one is in fact Dragon's Vein. I found it weird that Kamui had three skills as a level 11 and it is highly unlikely that a reclass has happened as he still only has 25HP. Considering that they're bringing back map mechanics, it is also possible that the skill is in fact Shove as well, in the case that Dragon's Vein hasn't been obtained yet.

Oh, and is it only me, or does that crown-skill look like Rightful King to you? :3

Edited April 6, 2015 by Val'air

[Mango Giamatti]

I find it odd that the first skill in the set of six is larger. Perhaps they are bringing personal skills back, and the first slot is for the characters personal skill, while the other five are class skills like in Awakening.

[Yunanuy]

I find it odd that the first skill in the set of six is larger. Perhaps they are bringing personal skills back, and the first slot is for the characters personal skill, while the other five are class skills like in Awakening.

Huh! Being so confused by Kamui having three skills, I didn't even notice that!

But in that case, maybe the first skill is Dragon's Vein, and the two following skills are the Dark Prince's skills. The first one could be something entirely different though, and Dragon's Vein could be like a innate ability like the Galdr.

Either way, I'm certain one of the skills already exists from the get-go and has nothing to do with the actual class the character is in.

[B.Leu]

Gee, I didn't even talk about this idea in detail on the 'Player Customization' topic ! *sarcasm*

Which actually didn't have any place on it, shaddup.

So yeah, I can only agree with it, I have enough of those Second Seals, and those Skill Grinding; Holy crap. ><

The first skill is probably a skill that you can't remove, like a Personal Skill.

I also just can't see the point of recclassing in a campaign where you apparently can't move in a world map or something, it just doesn't make any sense, If in one campaign you couldn't reclass, why in the other you could ?

So yeah, 3rd tier classes is the only explanation to me, and I really hope it's the case.

Edited April 6, 2015 by B.Leu

[VincentASM]

Personal skills would be so sexy.

As for the original question, I doubt it, unless they're added in a future DLC (not the third path, which is another game split). The site mentions how content-wise, the game is similar to Awakening, so there likely won't be enough time to promote twice.

[Sroy]

Is it possible that each class now has 3 skill available as opposed to 2?

I mean, I doubt it at this point, but it's possible.

I would prefer personal skills. I love when the character's personality/design influences gameplay.

Second seals were broken but they were one of my favorite aspects of Awakening because they made for some interesting combos.

Astra Sorcerers are one of my favorite things, especially if they carry valflame or a book of naga and the explosions stack.

I've also had abilities/crits do some majorly weird graphical glitches with the screen freaking out or the battle animation freezing for a minute.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Sroy

[Rapier]

The introduction of new classes is probably why they added in a extra slot, since more classes equal more skills. That picture of kamui possessing 3 skills by level 11 probably mean reclassing is back as base class give only two skills (First skill is free and second by level 10).

If Hoshido allowing players to freely developed their units AKA reclassing, I don't see why one version will have second seal while the other won't.

On this picture, he does not seem to have reclassed. I'm more willing to wager that one is a special skill for Kamui, and the other two are class skills. Maybe that is why there are six skill slots instead of one, as it is possible that one of the sloths is reserved for character specific skills (like FE4, 5, 9 and 10)

[NeonZ]

Personal skills would be so sexy.

As for the original question, I doubt it, unless they're added in a future DLC (not the third path, which is another game split). The site mentions how content-wise, the game is similar to Awakening, so there likely won't be enough time to promote twice.

I think there could be enough time if one picked Awakening's children paralogues and added those 12 chapters into the main campaign's progression. If this game has a similar structure though, with a 2nd generation gotten through optional paralogues, then it doesn't seem likely.

Edited April 6, 2015 by NeonZ

[Shadow Mir]

I doubt it - you'd have to have the game be pretty long to justify three tiers...

[Twylis]

I think I'd choose third tiers over reclassing by virtue of the gamebreaking min-maxing grindfest reclassing encourages, but I mostly just care about branched promotions coming back. I need branched promotions.

[Sroy]

I think I'd choose third tiers over reclassing by virtue of the gamebreaking min-maxing grindfest reclassing encourages, but I mostly just care about branched promotions coming back. I need branched promotions.

I like this idea the most.

I wanted to 100% awakening and all it's DLC so I spent WAY too much time grinding to beat Apotheosis and I still haven't beaten it yet.

[Awakener_]

For the 3 tier classes that will be too much grinding to do to get all the skills. I stick to only having 2 tier.

[Yunanuy]

For the 3 tier classes that will be too much grinding to do to get all the skills. I stick to only having 2 tier.

The whole point about 3rd tiers is to forego Second Seals. You'll basically go 1>21>1>21>1>30. I don't see how that is 'too much' grinding.

I think I'd choose third tiers over reclassing by virtue of the gamebreaking min-maxing grindfest reclassing encourages, but I mostly just care about branched promotions coming back. I need branched promotions.

I think I've played Awakening too much to have actually forgotten that this is in fact not a mechanic present in all FE games. But yes, yes, yes. Absolutely.

if being based on Awakening's system though, this is most likely going to stay.

I doubt it - you'd have to have the game be pretty long to justify three tiers...

Unfortunately, I think you're right. But here's to hoping you're wrong!

I would prefer personal skills. I love when the character's personality/design influences gameplay.

I think it's highly plausible that the first slot is in fact for personal skills like Kamui's Dragon's Vein. As Zvarri pointed out, one blob being awkwardly larger than the rest just seems too weird to not have some significance.

Personally, I liked a lot of the skills in the Tellius series, like Shove, Disarm, Shade and Howl, and hope they make a comeback. It would be great if the final boss had a personal skill akin to Nihil or Mantle. Some other cool ideas would be like to have one of the archer characters be able to attack in a line or something (essentially 3 squares for like 1/3 damage or something), or a skill that increased bow range constantly by 1. Archers really need a boon, and personal skills would help them a lot in that sense.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Val'air

[Shadow Mir]

The whole point about 3rd tiers is to forego Second Seals. You'll basically go 1>21>1>21>1>30. I don't see how that is 'too much' grinding.

Unfortunately, I think you're right. But here's to hoping you're wrong!

The issue is that unless the game happens to be about as long as RD, third tiers wouldn't be justified (and there's the part where most of the units you got in RD were already second tier to begin with).

Edited April 6, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[Sroy]

Personally, I liked a lot of the skills in the Tellius series, like Shove, Disarm, Shade and Howl, and hope they make a comeback. It would be great if the final boss had a personal skill akin to Nihil or Mantle. Some other cool ideas would be like to have one of the archer characters be able to attack in a line or something (essentially 3 squares for like 1/3 damage or something), or a skill that increased bow range constantly by 1. Archers really need a boon, and personal skills would help them a lot in that sense.

You know what would be even cooler is if each boss had a personal skill, and if/when you fight the recruitables of the opposite nation/path (Nohr/Hoshido) they had their personal skill.

I'm happy that personal skills are a plausible assumption, and here's hoping all characters have them.

[Dragrath]

I'm actually unsure how they will handle this if as they say the Nohr path is a traditional FE that lacks grinding then it makes declassing less likely as one can't really make the most out of declassing without optional grinding. It is also possible that skill scrolls might make a return as from the DLC we know awakening supported them so it might be possible to reach the five standard skills with only a base and promoted class (who knows maybe units gets a skill at lv 20 promoted?)

[Mango Giamatti]

I doubt it - you'd have to have the game be pretty long to justify three tiers...

The game wouldn't necessarily have to be longer, it would just have to scale levels faster. Take part 1 of FE10 for example. It's only 12 maps long, but there is more experience to be gained per map, so you usually have characters reach their first promotion by the time it's over. In most games, your party isn't full of second tier units after so few maps. Unfortunately, this makes units that need babying, like Leonardo, much harder to use.

[Shadow Knight]

I'm all for third tier classes.

But I question how truly restricted the Nohr side will be in terms of grinding. We know for sure there are now 6 skill slots which means changing classes is going to be a likely option. So in a "restricted" campaign how are you going to be able to acquire six skills for even a medium amount of characters?

I don't think we are necessarily going to be "restricted" without grinding. My guess is we will have less random fights that allow us to grind. But I would rather have grinding and second sealing in the game. It's definitely broken, but at least it allows freedom of choice in skills and classes and more importantly allows lower "tiered" characters like Maribelle to have a chance at being more useful.

[Awakener_]

The whole point about 3rd tiers is to forego Second Seals. You'll basically go 1>21>1>21>1>30. I don't see how that is 'too much' grinding.

During a typical run of Awakening without DLC's assistance, most of my units with evenly distributed EXP fell around 5-12 level in their promoted class by the endgame with only Chrom and Robin with their spouses and children near max. It take me pouring a lot of resource into Chrom just so he can go Lord -> Master Lord -> 12-18 level Paladin in another run by the the time of endgame. Unless you delicate the resources to selected few, most won't even be in their 3 tier class unless with grinding. Of course unless they can give out bonus EXP or something in the battlefield that let you level up a bit faster then I can see them do 3 tier class. Also being the being the elitist I am, I will grind to max out their stats and get all skills so you can imagine the amount of grinding I will be doing if they do another tier of class?

Edited April 7, 2015 by Awakener_

[Sroy]

I don't think we are necessarily going to be "restricted" without grinding. My guess is we will have less random fights that allow us to grind. But I would rather have grinding and second sealing in the game. It's definitely broken, but at least it allows freedom of choice in skills and classes and more importantly allows lower "tiered" characters like Maribelle to have a chance at being more useful.

That's the reason I actually liked grinding in Awakening; so that I could use the characters I liked even if they were "garbage".

If there's legitimately no way to grind on the Nohr side, even in the post game, I will be a bit disappointed.