Do you think this game will be overly depressing?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Has anyone played the Ace Attorney games? They manage to balance insane characters and situations, pop-culture references, deadpan snarking monologues and some genuinely heartwarming and (as far as trial battles go) badass moments, all expressed through sprites and text (and awesome music).

If Fire Emblem can reach that balance, then I'd be happy, although it's very hard to accomplish all that at once.

i'm a huge fan of thoses games and i balance the series could reach that balance, maybe not to the same extent, but i think its possible if they put enough focus into it, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the gameplay

EDIT: aw shit i double posted when i meant to put both those comments into a single one

Edited April 17, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I think from what I've seen most the fans (at least the ones who were fans before Awakening) would the game to be dark. Anything but the painful idealism that was Awakening. I found it incredibly hard to sympathize with any of the characters because they all acted like they were all in a "rainbow-sprinkle world" as Anna described it (who incidentally is the only character who really had a realistic worldview, but the supports make it very clear that she's wrong and how dare anyone be slightly cynical).

That being said, I'm fully expecting the third DLC path to be heavily idealist and involve uniting the two nations.

Which could actually be cool if they proceeded to give us a Radiant Dawn style sequel where you realize that things don't really work that way and there's still hatred and conflict going on.

this could be pretty cool too

[Tsuky]

As much as I liked Awakening, I was not a fan of the idealism and black-and-white morality. So yeah, I'm all for making this game darker and more tragic. I actually prefer tragedies in a lot of stories.

And PLEASE don't go with the "two sides team up to fight a common enemy" plot. It's just such a bad way to resolve the conflicts in this game.

I'm seeing quite a few similarities between this game and Code Geass, so hopefully the game can get on the same level of intensity and feelz :D

[MCProductions]

Isn't killing off the characters you sided against one of the main points anyway.

Besides, FE has proven that it can write a dark plot without appearing to be dark. Sacred Stones anyone

That said, I've honestly wished that the Ace Attorney writers would write every series I enjoy. AA is literally the only franchise where every game had me hooked till the end. No other series, even ones I have nostalgia bias towards, I can claim that about.

[Thane]

Isn't killing off the characters you sided against one of the main points anyway.

Besides, FE has proven that it can write a dark plot without appearing to be dark. Sacred Stones anyone

That said, I've honestly wished that the Ace Attorney writers would write every series I enjoy. AA is literally the only franchise where every game had me hooked till the end. No other series, even ones I have nostalgia bias towards, I can claim that about.

While I agree that the writing in Ace Attorney generally has most other games beat, the Investigation games were not up to par, and Dual Destinies was downright painful. Oh well, at least it's not on a Dragon Age II/Inquisition level, but you'll almost need to make an effort to be that bad.

[Rewjeo]

Really, FEif is set up perfectly for the tragic antagonist characters. FE has executed a lot of those very well. The GBA FEs have them out the wazoo, to varying extents. It was really only Awakening that failed there. I mean, WTF Yen'fay.

[Jedi]

Really, FEif is set up perfectly for the tragic antagonist characters. FE has executed a lot of those very well. The GBA FEs have them out the wazoo, to varying extents. It was really only Awakening that failed there. I mean, WTF Yen'fay.

Awakening partly succeeded with Mustafa, but yeah overall no.

I think IF will be a mixture of tragedy and hopeful themes.

[IGdood]

Even in a crapsack situation there can still be lightheartedness....like gallow's humor or characters making the best out of their current situation. That would be my preference.

I don't know how many people watch Game of Thrones but I'd cite the interactions between Arya and The Hound or Tyrion and Bronn.

[NekoKnight]

I think it's a given that you will have to defeat/kill either Marx or Ryoma depending on your route, but after the fluffy idealism of Awakening, I don't think it will get much darker. I imagine if you fight the other members of your family they will merely retreat if defeated. Some tragedy in a story is good but if there is too much, it will undermine any other theme of the story they hoped to tell. That said, I'm hoping for a more nuanced story/dreading the opposite happening, after what we got in Awakening. Like most Fire Emblem games, I want the story and characters to take things seriously, allowing the humor and occasional quirkiness of characters to have some contrast.

If there are paralogues at the end of the game that without explanation revive characters that most certainly died in the main story, I will personally devour every member of IS.

[spoiler=EVERYONE!]

Even in a crapsack situation there can still be lightheartedness....like gallow's humor or characters making the best out of their current situation. That would be my preference.

I don't know how many people watch Game of Thrones but I'd cite the interactions between Arya and The Hound or Tyrion and Bronn.

Those GoT examples are a PERFECT example of how a serious story can still have lighthearted dialogue and endearing character interactions.

I'd like say let George R.R. Martin write the story for FE14 but then we'd never see the ending.

Edited April 17, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Dark Holy Elf]

Ace Attorney is pretty much the ideal as far as a video game which balances serious, darker themes with brilliant comedy. I'm a huge fan of the series and I'd be ecstatic if a Fire Emblem game could have writing in the same conversation as the AA series (sans Apollo Justice which I wasn't a big fan of). Unlikely, but between the new writer and the tone of the game they've shown so far, it's not impossible. (I'm not trying to get my hopes up, but I do believe in being optimistic.)

As has already been mentioned, FE games are (usually) about war. War sucks and is depressing, and I think the series comes off as shallow when they fail to do this justice. But just because they can and should take on a darker tone than Awakening, doesn't mean they need to jettison the comic aspects that Awakening did well. That's definitely what my fingers are crossed for.

[Honey Bunny]

I don't really know how this game will go. Some things seem lighter, others darker, with a whole lot of mystery on top of the whole thing.

The way I want them to do things though? Explore choice. They said that was the main theme right? Then prove it IS. Make me kick myself for the wrong choice, let me feel joy for the right choice, have me wondering how much my choice affects things at all, keep me agonizing over which choice to make, allow me to doubt if there even is a proper choice, and give me the satisfaction of having chosen well. If choice is supposed to be the big thing this time, then show off choice. The good and the bad.

In short: I want this game to have its ups and its downs.

[Magical CC]

Make it like they did it Max Payne. I love to enjoy the characters's sadness and despair.

[Sock]

"Choosing a side means throwing the others away like trash."

I'm already depressed about this game. :\

Can I just skip right to the third route, even if it isn't happy? ;A;
I'll do like Elincia and refuse to fight.

[blah the Prussian]

The problem is that Ace Attorneys story had to be good, because the game is a visual novel. IS have a safety bet in terms of gameplay, so the game doesn't need a good story to be good. I doubt they'll put much effort Into the story.

[TigerKatt]

"Choosing a side means throwing the others away like trash."

I'm already depressed about this game. :\

Can I just skip right to the third route, even if it isn't happy? ;A;

I'll do like Elincia and refuse to fight.

This is so true....simply attempting to choose a side is already making my brain hurt.

Granted that I'm assuming choosing a side will result in a somewhat dark/grim decision of killing the other (I'm hoping there's a cheerful, happy/peaceful end though) - the only thing I see that can compensate for the feeling of depression and betrayal would be to play both sides via DLC (or the third one, whatever it may be about) xD

Edit - maybe through choices you DO get to save the other side? (disarm/knock out instead of kill during combat)...but I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to arrive at a situation to get to save them, and the map itself would be hard to get through (maybe similar to recruitment paralogues in Awakening; but more deeply embedded into the story arc and affected in various ways) :P

Edited April 18, 2015 by TigerKatt

[Tsuky]

If there are paralogues at the end of the game that without explanation revive characters that most certainly died in the main story, I will personally devour every member of IS.

Yeah, THIS.

[Thane]

I usually find myself defending Awakening from the more unfair or straight up untrue statements, but I have nothing to say in defense of characters coming back to life. It was beyond stupid.

[euklyd]

I personally wouldn't object to FE8-style postgame recruitment

like there's no bullshit justifications, you just have them as a bonus

like DLC/SpotPass characters

Edited April 18, 2015 by Euklyd

[NekoKnight]

I usually find myself defending Awakening from the more unfair or straight up untrue statements, but I have nothing to say in defense of characters coming back to life. It was beyond stupid.

It's not just that people are brought back from the dead, it's about the ridiculousness of who is brought back. Bringing back Walhart and Gangrel would be like bringing back Sonia from FE7 and saying "It's okay guys...she's good now...because...she is a blue unit and not a red unit..."

FE14 is already setting up a lot of drama with having to choose one family over another so it would be a disaster if you killed your older brother from the opposite side and then he later somehow became recruitable with heavy brain damage and fragmented speech.

[euklyd]

It's not just that people are brought back from the dead, it's about the ridiculousness of who is brought back. Bringing back Walhart and Gangrel would be like bringing back Sonia from FE7 and saying "It's okay guys...she's good now...because...she is a blue unit and not a red unit..."

more like "because she's bitter about being cast aside like rubbish by nergal and also about actually being a morph"

I mean it's still bullshit but let's be real it's not that bad

I feel kind of silly spoilering FE7 spoilers, but like

there are people who have come in on the heels of the new game(s), and they might not've played it

that being said I don't see how being able to recruit the siblings you don't choose would be a disaster

you can make choices about who to side with without having to kill everyone who opposes you

recruiting enemies to your side is a longstanding FE tradition

Edited April 18, 2015 by Euklyd

[NekoKnight]

more like "because she's bitter about being cast aside like rubbish by nergal and also about actually being a morph"

I mean it's still bullshit but let's be real it's not that bad

I feel kind of silly spoilering FE7 spoilers, but like

there are people who have come in on the heels of the new game(s), and they might not've played it

that being said I don't see how being able to recruit the siblings you don't choose would be a disaster

you can make choices about who to side with without having to kill everyone who opposes you

recruiting enemies to your side is a longstanding FE tradition

She's a being of pure malice, defined by her narcissism and contempt for others. She also murdered the family of one of your playable characters so I don't think any amount of writing could turn that character from bad to good. The thing about recruitable characters on the enemy side is that they are usually not too happy about being with the bad guys to begin with. They are either misguided or desperate.

Reading Gangrel's dialogue post recruitment was just cringe-inducing. They give him some flimsy excuse of trying to unite the continent against the threat of Valm but it was never even once hinted that Gangrel had any benign purpose or redeeming qualities during the main storyline. It's totally made up characterization to justifying having that cooky, mad tyrant as your new friend.

It might be possible to recruit your siblings of the opposite faction but I think it would partially undermine your route choice and be a tough sell for characters like Ryoma and Marx. These guys are the leaders of the armies of two nations that despise each other.

Edited April 18, 2015 by NekoKnight

[FrostyFireMage]

Gangrel and Emmeryn returning as recruitable characters is ridiculous. Would the cackling mad villain who wanted every Ylissean to die really feel regret over the death of one person? And Emmeryn returning completely defeated the point of her (admittedly stupid) sacrifice.

[TigerKatt]

She's a being of pure malice, defined by her narcissism and contempt for others. She also murdered the family of one of your playable characters so I don't think any amount of writing could turn that character from bad to good. The thing about recruitable characters on the enemy side is that they are usually not too happy about being with the bad guys to begin with. They are either misguided or desperate.

Reading Gangrel's dialogue post recruitment was just cringe-inducing. They give him some flimsy excuse of trying to unite the continent against the threat of Valm but it was never even once hinted that Gangrel had any benign purpose or redeeming qualities during the main storyline. It's totally made up characterization to justifying having that cooky, mad tyrant as your new friend.

It might be possible to recruit your siblings of the opposite faction but I think it would partially undermine your route choice and be a tough sell for characters like Ryoma and Marx. These guys are the leaders of the armies of two nations that despise each other.

Being misguided is the theme of Nohr though? I mean the characters and siblings that you grew up with in the Dark Nation don't know of the supposed evil that's going on, and if you're required to drive a revolution within the castle walls (if you pick that version/side of the game), then I'd say the same could potentially happen with the Hoshidan side. I don't think it would undermine your route choice as such though? I mean logically thinking, to recruit someone from the enemy side (given that they're misguided and have no idea about what they're doing for Nohr), would be extremely difficult because not only do you have to prevent them from dying, but there's the convincing aspect too. :P

Edit - I forgot to say that by having recruitment levels that difficult would add a challenging aspect to the game (while abiding to FE traditions) and keeping your crucial decisions intact.

I'm not sure how it'll all play out in the game, and I'm really excited to see how it actually is! They might not have recruitment after all, and just leave it as a single route plus DLC (the darker, more depressing side). In my opinion though it'd leave a more interesting twist of reality in FE: If, supposing that they do implement recruitment options (and therefore more heart-wrenching choices to decide between).

Edited April 18, 2015 by TigerKatt

[NekoKnight]

Being misguided is the theme of Nohr though? I mean the characters and siblings that you grew up with in the Dark Nation don't know of the supposed evil that's going on, and if you're required to drive a revolution within the castle walls (if you pick that version/side of the game), then I'd say the same could potentially happen with the Hoshidan side. I don't think it would undermine your route choice as such though? I mean logically thinking, to recruit someone from the enemy side (given that they're misguided and have no idea about what they're doing for Nohr), would be extremely difficult because not only do you have to prevent them from dying, but there's the convincing aspect too. :P

Edit - I forgot to say that by having recruitment levels that difficult would add a challenging aspect to the game (while abiding to FE traditions) and keeping your crucial decisions intact.

I'm not sure how it'll all play out in the game, and I'm really excited to see how it actually is! They might not have recruitment after all, and just leave it as a single route plus DLC (the darker, more depressing side). In my opinion though it'd leave a more interesting twist of reality in FE: If, supposing that they do implement recruitment options (and therefore more heart-wrenching choices to decide between).

I could maybe see some Nohrians join the Hoshido side because they aren't really feeling the whole 'conquest' thing but it's harder to imagine Hoshidans joining Nohr. Hoshido is on the defensive and doesn't have a reason to aid their invaders, even if Nohr!Kamui eventually hopes to reform Nohr from the inside. If a large amount of the Nohr campaign takes place in Nohr, Hoshidans shouldn't even be there.

[TigerKatt]

I could maybe see some Nohrians join the Hoshido side because they aren't really feeling the whole 'conquest' thing but it's harder to imagine Hoshidans joining Nohr. Hoshido is on the defensive and doesn't have a reason to aid their invaders, even if Nohr!Kamui eventually hopes to reform Nohr from the inside. If a large amount of the Nohr campaign takes place in Nohr, Hoshidans shouldn't even be there.

That's true! I was speaking from mainly a traditional FE sense, which would therefore mean from the Hosidan side. But maybe that's why the developers are hinting that the Nohr experience will be vastly different than the Fire Emblem traditions we know? I mean it definitely sounds like a challenge without outside-storyline leveling and only a set amount of units that are effectively supplied to you. It's a small chance that it's the reason for dlc as well, so we get to experience each side as we want to and allow each side of the game to freely develop as the producers would like it to? :)