Ghostlander Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Am I gonna complain about almost exposed pussy? No. No I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidna Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I don't see why people are saying "welcome to anime" since there are so very many anime titles without any fanservice. I'd love to know what kind of Japanese games you've been playing. We are talking modern here, right? Semantics aside, this is the route Awakening went down and it's also the one that easily gave them the most success they've ever seen. I'm not arguing against anyone voicing their dislike of the designs, I'm just surprised you didn't see this coming. The game will more than likely be butchered upon localization anyway to get the T rating, you'll have the family friendly game you desire and anyone who has a problem with supporting censorship will have sprung for the JP copy (as I have) if they hadn't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Welcome to anime indeed. I have to laugh at the people saying that "there's no excuse for this", as if the designers have done something objectively wrong or committed some heinous crime by painting their vision exactly the way they wanted it to look. I get that tumblr latched onto Awakening pretty hardcore, but you're laying on the manufactured outrage a little thick. Tumblr has nothing to do with anything. People are allowed to not like things. I would think you're the one who's overreacting if you treat every little criticism as some kind of "outrage". Liking a product does not mean turning a blind eye to its flaws. Fire Emblem is, first and foremost, a product. We as the consumers have every right to voice our dissatisfaction with the product we're supposed to pay for. Nobody here's trying to picket FE over a few terribly constructed outfits, but they're terribly constructed designs nevertheless. If the product satisfies you, good on you. But it's not a perfect product and if there are flaws that people are not happy with, then they have every right to voice them. Or are you against product reviews too? I'm a firm believer that if you're going to do fanservice, then make it look good. Several of the fanservicey designs don't even achieve that. As someone with professional experience in character design, I'm more disappointed in seeing many missed opportunities with design than anything. Sometimes, more skin shown does not necessarily make the design more appealing, even talking straight aesthetics (disregarding my personal preferences for a bit). There's coherency and there's the balance of elements. I feel a lot of designs could've been much better if the designers would just stop cutting holes haphazardly into things without regard actual visual coherency, while still keeping sex appeal. A lot of it was holes for the sake of holes and it does not actually look good. Edited June 29, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidna Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Tumblr has nothing to do with anything. People are allowed to not like things. I would think you're the one who's overreacting if you treat every little criticism as some kind of "outrage". Liking a product does not mean turning a blind eye to its flaws. Fire Emblem is, first and foremost, a product. We as the consumers have every right to voice our dissatisfaction with the product we're supposed to pay for. Nobody here's trying to picket FE over a few terribly constructed outfits, but they're terribly constructed designs nevertheless. If the product satisfies you, good on you. I'm a firm believer that if you're going to do fanservice, then make it look good. Several of the fanservicey designs don't even achieve that. As someone with professional experience in character design, I'm more disappointed in seeing many missed opportunities with design than anything. Sometimes, more skin shown does not necessarily make the design more appealing, even talking straight aesthetics. There's coherency and there's the balance of elements. I feel a lot of designs could've been much better if the designers would just stopp cutting holes haphazardly into things without regard actual visual coherency. It was holes for the sake of holes. You're allowed to dislike them (I never said you weren't, so very defensive) and you're even allowed to say that art is somehow objectively "terribly constructed", just as I'm allowed to say that's bullshit. As "someone with professional experience in character design" you of all people should know that art is subjective. I'm not going to cower at the sight of someone swinging their "authority" on the subject at me, sorry. Edited June 29, 2015 by Nidna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 You're allowed to dislike them (I never said you weren't, so very defensive) and you're even allowed to say that art is somehow objectively "terribly constructed", just as I'm allowed to say that's bullshit. As "someone with professional experience in character design", you of all people should know that art is subjective. It's less subjective than people make it out to be, or else there would be no art schools and critics. There is color theory. There is balance of elements. There are reason why some pieces of clothing go well with some and others look utterly ridiculous together. People don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to art school to get it brushed off as "subjective". Art has a leeway of subjectivity, but it's not 100% anything goes depending on the context. Design principles exist for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I don't have anything to add to this debate right now, but does anyone actually have the General design, or hell, almost anything else? I haven't seen most of what people voice their distaste about yet and I'd rather not join them until I know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidna Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) It's less subjective than people make it out to be, or else there would be no art schools and critics. There is color theory. There is balance of elements. There are reason why some pieces of clothing go well with some and others look utterly ridiculous together. People don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to art school to get it brushed off as "subjective". No, but they do get brushed off by society as a whole because trying to claim that a professional artist's work is objectively bad is pretty laughable. They've presumably attended schools of the same prestige as you have, what right do you have to proclaim that everybody needs to think a certain way about a particular piece of theirs? I'm not here to debate with an art major about how art is apparently objective now, I have no interest in derailing the thread when it's clear we won't come to an agreement. Saying that "there is no excuse" for something you don't personally like seems pretty shitty to me, that's all I'm saying. You'd think IS murdered their family. I specifically said that I have no problem with someone disliking the designs, I personally hate Fighter myself. I'm just not going to start a petition over it. Edited June 29, 2015 by Nidna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Having no excuse for something != murdering family. That is an extreme over-extrapolation. It's especially because they're professionals that they should be under more scrutiny, especially since they are getting paid to do this. I don't have anything to add to this debate right now, but does anyone actually have the General design, or hell, almost anything else? I haven't seen most of what people voice their distaste about yet and I'd rather not join them until I know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Welcome to anime indeed. I have to laugh at the people saying that "there's no excuse for this", as if the designers have done something objectively wrong or committed some heinous crime by painting their vision exactly the way they wanted it to look. I get that tumblr latched onto Awakening pretty hardcore, but you're laying on the manufactured outrage a little thick. Their "vision" is sexist and looks like shit. That's the frustrating part. The infuriating part is the people claiming no one has any right to be bothered by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) No, but they do get brushed off by society as a whole because trying to claim that a professional artist's work is objectively bad is pretty laughable. They've presumably attended schools of the same prestige as you have, what right do you have to proclaim that everybody needs to think a certain way about a particular piece of theirs? I'm not here to debate with an art major about how art is apparently objective now, I have no interest in derailing the thread when it's clear we won't come to an agreement. Saying that "there is no excuse" for something you don't personally like seems pretty shitty to me, that's all I'm saying. You'd think IS murdered their family. I specifically said that I have no problem with someone disliking the designs, I personally hate Fighter myself. I'm just not going to start a petition over it. Seriously? Are you seriously getting hung up about someone saying "there is no excuse"? You are sincerely insisting that you were reading that line as a literal accusation towards IS having committed "some heinous crime" as you put it? After mocking any possible dissatisfaction as "manufactured outrage" among other things? In the very same breath as accusing people of acting like "IS murdered their family"? Edited June 29, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Having no excuse for something != murdering family. That is an extreme over-extrapolation. It's especially because they're professionals that they should be under more scrutiny, especially since they are getting paid to do this. Is that Effie's bare ass in a thong? Edited June 29, 2015 by Titamon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Is that Effie's bare ass in a thong? Yes, unfortunately. A pity because, boobplate aside, I actually loved her top. Edited June 29, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) But that's not a hole, isn't it? In that regard, I can't really see any notable difference to the old General design. Well, maybe it was the Great Knight that I was thinking about. Edit: Wait, nevermind. I was thinking someone on the last two pages said the General class in particular had a hole in it but it seems like I got this wrong. ...or at least it's difficult to check for me at the moment since the site or something on my end seems to have issues. Nevermind again, Thane said exactly that. Since the GK already looked like that, I was interpreting that statement more as a hole in the thong or something along those lines. Edited June 29, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 By the holes I am usually referring to Kamui's inexpicable thighhole and Camilla's random curtain with a hole in it. At that point they're better off just giving her a leotard and removing the curtain entirely. The old general designs had a worse top, or at least Kjelle's model was far too thin for a lump of metal, but they at the very least wore pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raimi Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Ugh, this site's forums and the people posting in it are seriously disgusting. some are even more disgusting than the things they're complaining about. no wonder people keep saying the fire emblem community/fandom now is shit, it's all full of no-lifes who use forums as a platform to post the most pathetic and tragic things. and to this thread's creator, you really are an idiot. I mean seriously? you complain about fanservice as well ophelia and charlotte's designs yet you have a gif of camilla as your profile picture that moves down to her huge breasts? are you that insipidly stupid? at least change the damn picture before you make a thread that's an excellent waste of time. I can't handle this site's idiocy anymore. to hell with this, I'm deleting my account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 we miss you already lol the people who are complaining about people complaining are using far more reactionary language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapbar Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 we miss you already lol the people who are complaining about people complaining are using far more reactionary language That always seems to happen when people complain about complainers in every forum/comment section/image board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) and to this thread's creator, you really are an idiot. I mean seriously? you complain about fanservice as well ophelia and charlotte's designs yet you have a gif of camilla as your profile picture that moves down to her huge breasts? are you that insipidly stupid? at least change the damn picture before you make a thread that's an excellent waste of time. Edit: (Deleted) Nevermind, it's not only inappropriate but also completely pointless if I make any guesses in regards to the TC when this poster actually did deactivate her account anyway. TC, I am sorry for being so presumptions. Edited June 29, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 That always seems to happen when people complain about complainers in every forum/comment section/image board Person A: x is dumb why do they continue to do x. how dumb. Person B: omg they do this every time what do you expect you're acting like it's murder I'M LEAVING YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS Person A: wtf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Much as I disagree with the way user presented themselves, they have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Ugh, this site's forums and the people posting in it are seriously disgusting. some are even more disgusting than the things they're complaining about. To be honest, this sites worst people are the loud ones. There are plenty of good people on this forum. Overly judgmental posts like this actually irk me. the OP may be a bit.. well in the odd but still. But as you're leaving anyways, au revoir Edited June 29, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 By all means, continue. You know, on the topic at hand, i did not really notice Elfie's battle thong. Thats unfortunate considering the solidity of her design otherwise. Much as I disagree with the way user presented themselves, they have a point. Agreed completely. The frustration there, i know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twylis Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 wow uh ​this thread went places ​ ​and holiest of cows that general ​I hadn't seen it and what I was imagining was nowhere near that bad, it almost looks like a graphical error or something ​Kozaki why ​ Kamui's inexpicable thighhole This is something I'm actually fine with. It's questionable given it's the player character and whatnot, but from an aesthetic standpoint, I think it actually divides the design in a neat way. ​Plus thigh slits have historically been the go-to fanservice for FE so it feels a bit less jarring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlander Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Okay, designs like a fully armored girl with JUST the ass cut out are pretty fucking dumb. But calling out sexist left and right is baffling as well. It's okay to show Nishiki's chest? Gender equality? Free the nipple? Apparently the female form is so insulting and taboo and offending that it needs to be suppressed, just like any form of sexuality anywhere. I think those ideals are laughable and absurd. Boob plate? okay dumb. Bare ass in full armor? Dumb. But if a girl is wearing a sexy over-all outfit just for the sake of it, then so the fuck what? Nobody's complaining about Rinka. Is she not feminine enough? So much garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edaleth Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 wow uh ​this thread went places ​ ​and holiest of cows that general ​I hadn't seen it and what I was imagining was nowhere near that bad, it almost looks like a graphical error or something ​Kozaki why ​ This is something I'm actually fine with. It's questionable given it's the player character and whatnot, but from an aesthetic standpoint, I think it actually divides the design in a neat way. ​Plus thigh slits have historically been the go-to fanservice for FE so it feels a bit less jarring Well, hang out with Camilla for long enough and her fashion sense starts to rub off on you. She won't stop until the entire world is wearing thigh holes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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