Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

[Yari]

Alternatively Kamui could be established as ruthless, even if good intentioned ultimately, from the beginning.

Think of them like August from Thracia 776 who knows how to torture people.

My Femui is a ruthless girl. She will do what's needed to win the war. My Mamui is more "honorable"(?) and focused in stopping it.

[Emperor Hardin]

My Femui is a ruthless girl. She will do what's needed to win the war. My Mamui is more "honorable"(?) and focused in stopping it.

Yeah something like that could be interesting.

Oftentimes we have more pragmatic/ruthless tacticians, but idealistic lords, it'd be interesting if there was a Lord who was pragmatic/ruthless.

[The DanMan]

Hey look, what I thought Conquest would be!

This hurts as I wish Nohr was this.

I half seriously think they purposely butchered Nohr's story, as it already had the objectively better gameplay and it's characters became much more popular than Hoshido's; if it had a good story on top of that, then who would buy Hoshido except to scream "I'm a noob"?

Ignore this; I should've made my outlandishness more apparent.

Edited July 27, 2015 by The DanMan

[astrophys]

I've made a response in the Aqua discussion thread, where you made similar comments… I think you're getting a tad paranoia now….

I'd more readily attribute a "bad story"(assuming we accept without further argument the assertion that the story is bad) to incompetence or mistakes with regards to how they thought the player would react to it rathe than outright malice.

Making a purposefully bad story would just be like shooting themselves in the foot.

[Alazen]

Let's discuss ways to make the major antagonists (Hydra, "Garon", Ganz, MacBeth) better.

Hydra (and Touma) really deserves a mass rewrite if not be removed entirely. He's too much of an excuse to let Kamui marry both sets of siblings and to get the warring kingdoms' friend-up. I suggested making him an advocate of the dragon version of the White Man's Burden, which would have him guide mankind under his benevolent hand.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Alazen

[Emperor Hardin]

At least Hydra was better then Grima

[Alazen]

That doesn't say much.

[Yari]

I already have a few ideas for Touma and Hydra. I'll post them tomorrow once I find my notes on the subject. But Hydra is not the father of either of my Kamuis nor is he completely insane.

[B.Leu]

It's not really an accomplishment to be better than Grima. :p

And better ot not, Hydra is a big waste of potential, especially since... He is just Kamui's dad.

Seriously, the things that could've been with that is mindblowing ! Like, putting Mikoto in a not purity-suish light, or like it's been said, him being the 'chief' of the third path instead of the 'friendship is magic' BS.

But, nope, like Grimy, he's just a crazy dragon who's the mastermind behind everything and do (very crappy) things just because the writing say so and nothing else. GG IS.

Edited July 26, 2015 by B.Leu

[Pepper]

It's not really an accomplishment to be better than Grima. :p

And better ot not, Hydra is a big waste of potential, especially since... He is just Kamui's dad.

Seriously, the things that could've been with that is mindblowing ! Like, putting Mikoto in a not purity-suish light, or like it's been said, him being the 'chief' of the third path instead of the 'friendship is magic' BS.

But, nope, like Grimy, he's just a crazy dragon who's the mastermind behind everything and do (very crappy) things just because the writing say so and nothing else. GG IS.

Anankos could of had a better plan then wipe out everything cause I lost my spaghetti.

[B.Leu]

Anankos could of had a better plan then wipe out everything cause I lost my spaghetti.

Well, that's not far from the truth, Apparently it's because humanaty-senpai forgot about him or something.

It gets dumb when you remember one thing: FakeGaron is Ankanos' familiar and he want to kill Kamui.

Which means that from day one, Ankanos wanted to kill his own son... but never tried it until the start of the plot.

Reminds me of Tobi from Naruto that BS.

Edited July 27, 2015 by B.Leu

[NekoKnight]

1) as you mentioned, Kamui should secretly kill off a lot of the more evil leadership, specifically in a way where they just seemed to have vanished, make it look like died during the battle, or were just found dead.

Alternatively Kamui could be established as ruthless, even if good intentioned ultimately, from the beginning.

Rather than the naive, do-gooder Kamui we got, it would have been nice to have a clever and ruthless Kamui for Nohr (albeit good intentioned). For example, they could kill one evil Nohrian general and then frame his rival to kill two birds with one stone. Or they could Uriah Gambit a corrupt Nohrian and allow Hoshido forces to kill them. Kamui could knock off people who are a threat to him and inspire the honorable Nohrians to gain the support of the army when it finally turns into open rebellion.

Of course, we can't have Kamui out-witting Garon at every turn but let them take advantage of opportunities to make it seem like Kamui is in charge of their own destiny instead of being a pawn.

[Emperor Hardin]

The ruthless well intentioned Kamui could also take out Hoshidan generals that were causing trouble to the Nohrian populace at large.

[The DanMan]

I've made a response in the Aqua discussion thread, where you made similar comments… I think you're getting a tad paranoia now….

I'd more readily attribute a "bad story"(assuming we accept without further argument the assertion that the story is bad) to incompetence or mistakes with regards to how they thought the player would react to it rathe than outright malice.

Making a purposefully bad story would just be like shooting themselves in the foot.

I don't seriously think that; I was just firing it out there.

[Alazen]

Well, that's not far from the truth, Apparently it's because humanaty-senpai forgot about him or something.

It gets dumb when you remember one thing: FakeGaron is Ankanos' familiar and he want to kill Kamui.

Which means that from day one, Ankanos wanted to kill his own son... but never tried it until the start of the plot.

Reminds me of Tobi from Naruto that BS.

And now, you've inspired me to write Hydra's words of conversion:

Kamui.... My star. At last, I can speak to you.

Do you truly wish to fight under the crests of either kingdom? The kingdoms where their warriors bring suffering to the toiling, the young, and the old? The kingdoms' rulers who pushed you to serve as their weapon, regardless of what YOU wished?

For how far mankind has come, it is as a child. One stumbling in the dark, looking for the gentle hand of its father. Have you not seen the rampages of Nohr? Do you know how Hoshido's advocates claim the kingdom is "innocent" and "just", even with its role in the world?

Come to Touma, Kamui. Our might is what this world needs to shine through the darkness. To guide mankind to its potential.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Alazen

[TheWerdna]

At least Hydra was better then Grima

You mean the character that literally had no motivation or backstory?

[Emperor Hardin]

You mean the character that literally had no motivation or backstory?

Damned by Faint praise.

[Pepper]

Well, that's not far from the truth, Apparently it's because humanaty-senpai forgot about him or something.

It gets dumb when you remember one thing: FakeGaron is Ankanos' familiar and he want to kill Kamui.

Which means that from day one, Ankanos wanted to kill his own son... but never tried it until the start of the plot.

Reminds me of Tobi from Naruto that BS.

It could of been He DID not plan for having a son cause I don't think Mikoto willing conceived Kamui, Anankos wouldn't want someone challenge him for the throne or that's what I thought when I heard about the leaks. Please don't remind me of Naruto.

[B.Leu]

How do you not plan to have a kid ? Especially if you are a dragon ? Cuz you know, dragon, bloodline, that's a big deal in the series, not thinking about that would pahetic for a character... or a plot. Right FEIf ?...

Sheesh, I want to tease you with some Naruto BS, but can't find something right now. :p

And now, you've inspired me to write Hydra's words of conversion:

Kamui.... My star. At last, I can speak to you.

Do you truly wish to fight under the crests of either kingdom? The kingdoms where their warriors bring suffering to the toiling, the young, and the old? The kingdoms' rulers who pushed you to serve as their weapon, regardless of what YOU wished?

For how far mankind has come, it is as a child. One stumbling in the dark, looking for the gentle hand of its father. Have you not seen the rampages of Nohr? Do you know how Hoshido's advocates claim the kingdom is "innocent" and "just", even with its role in the world?

Come to Touma, Kamui. Our might is what this world needs to shine through the darkness. To guide mankind to its potential.

So. Many. Possibilities. And it basically show what FEIf shouldn't and should have done.
Daddy, daddy, what about the wafius and husbandos ? I don't want to have sex with my aunt or my mentor.

Edited July 27, 2015 by B.Leu

[Pepper]

How do you not plan to have a kid ? Especially if you are a dragon ? Cuz you know, dragon, bloodline, that's a big deal in the series, not thinking about that would pahetic for a character... or a plot. Right FEIf ?...

Sheesh, I want to tease you with some Naruto BS, but can't find something right now. :p

So. Many. Possibilities. And it basically show what FEIf shouldn't and should have done.

Daddy, daddy, what about the wafius and husbandos ? I don't want to have sex with my aunt or my mentor.

you wouldn't dare.

[Yari]

And now, you've inspired me to write Hydra's words of conversion:Kamui.... My star. At last, I can speak to you.Do you truly wish to fight under the crests of either kingdom? The kingdoms where their warriors bring suffering to the toiling, the young, and the old? The kingdoms' rulers who pushed you to serve as their weapon, regardless of what YOU wished?For how far mankind has come, it is as a child. One stumbling in the dark, looking for the gentle hand of its father. Have you not seen the rampages of Nohr? Do you know how Hoshido's advocates claim the kingdom is "innocent" and "just", even with its role in the world?Come to Touma, Kamui. Our might is what this world needs to shine through the darkness. To guide mankind to its potential.

This is so beautiful! Brava! This gave more ideas to the Touma path. It's very well written.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Yari

[paladin21]

I had this thought about the Touma path, that would affect the other two paths as well.

Both Kamui and Aqua have twin siblings (Mamui's twin sibling would be Femui and viceversa, and Aqua's would resemble Shigure) that were left behind when their mothers (Mikoto and Shenmei) escaped with them during the revolt. Ever since, both mothers were troubled with pain/remorse, not actually knowing if the other child survived or not.

During the Nohr and Hoshido paths, these two characters appear hooded at some points attacking you or your enemy, starting battles between the two factions, or have critical appearances in several plot points...

...like being the ones after Suzukaze's possible demise in the Hoshido route, killing Flora in Hoshido (I just can't eat with her going suicidal) or actively killing Gunther in Hoshido (in a scene where he escaped from Touma like when he joined in Nohr). They could also be behind Takumi's possession in Nohr.

They'd have unique classes as well, like [dragon prince(ss) > dragon blood] and male singer (or bard to give it a different name), but instead of refreshing and buffing allies, he debuffs and nullifies the enemy (instead of giving an extra turn, he makes them lose it, being actually contrary to Aqua). His skills would be Luck+4 (like Aqua), Special tune (debuffs the enemy nullified by his song), Voice of War (ally's damage +2 within a 2 square range) and Foreign Prince (thinking about it, but it should be somewhat the opposite of Aqua's and still usable once recruited at the end of the Touma route). The dragon prince(ss) line would be dragonstone based, with skills that would override that weapons inherent weaknesses, like Dragon shield to nullify dragonslayers, or Dragon rush to allow double attacks with dragonstones and getting a boost to do that.

During the Touma route, they'd be among the enemies you fight before you lift, and they'd follow you outside...

...after inflicting Gunther with a wound that would allow Hydra to possess him (even they wouldn't know that, good ol' Hydra knows enough about being betrayed already), and they'd be at some points critical to the story, killing Izana (who would join to be killed a couple of chapters later like Crimson) and the Rainbow Sage and destroying the werewolf and kitsune villages.

They would join right before entering Touma the second time, being the aim of Gunter's accusations of treachery.

Finally, Aqua's amulet would combine with her brother's to form a whole that would negate its inherent curse...

...allowing her to survive this time.

I also have an issue with the personal holy weapons: why are only the male characters getting them? And three swords? No lance or axe?

I'd give Camilla the Holy Axe and Hinoka the Holy Naginata. The axe would halve enemy strength (like Leon's tome with magic) and the naginata would nullify weaknesses when in inventory. Maybe the naginata would be too OP since most classes with weakness to weapons (including Hinoka's base) can use lances, and she gets the lancer class set as well, so she'd barely ever use other weapons.

Elise and Sakura would receive the Holy Staff and Baton, which would restore some life and/or lift debuffs (anti-silver effect) and turn every staff or baton in inventory unbreakable (they'd be unbreakable themselves as well). They would get these weapons near endgame (in order not to break it). Other possible effects would be adding/increasing area effect to staves (around the target) instead of rendering them unbreakable.

[NekoKnight]

I had this thought about the Touma path, that would affect the other two paths as well.

Both Kamui and Aqua have twin siblings (Mamui's twin sibling would be Femui and viceversa, and Aqua's would resemble Shigure) that were left behind when their mothers (Mikoto and Shenmei) escaped with them during the revolt. Ever since, both mothers were troubled with pain/remorse, not actually knowing if the other child survived or not.

During the Nohr and Hoshido paths, these two characters appear hooded at some points attacking you or your enemy, starting battles between the two factions, or have critical appearances in several plot points...

...like being the ones after Suzukaze's possible demise in the Hoshido route, killing Flora in Hoshido (I just can't eat with her going suicidal) or actively killing Gunther in Hoshido (in a scene where he escaped from Touma like when he joined in Nohr). They could also be behind Takumi's possession in Nohr.

They'd have unique classes as well, like [dragon prince(ss) > dragon blood] and male singer (or bard to give it a different name), but instead of refreshing and buffing allies, he debuffs and nullifies the enemy (instead of giving an extra turn, he makes them lose it, being actually contrary to Aqua). His skills would be Luck+4 (like Aqua), Special tune (debuffs the enemy nullified by his song), Voice of War (ally's damage +2 within a 2 square range) and Foreign Prince (thinking about it, but it should be somewhat the opposite of Aqua's and still usable once recruited at the end of the Touma route). The dragon prince(ss) line would be dragonstone based, with skills that would override that weapons inherent weaknesses, like Dragon shield to nullify dragonslayers, or Dragon rush to allow double attacks with dragonstones and getting a boost to do that.

During the Touma route, they'd be among the enemies you fight before you lift, and they'd follow you outside...

...after inflicting Gunther with a wound that would allow Hydra to possess him (even they wouldn't know that, good ol' Hydra knows enough about being betrayed already), and they'd be at some points critical to the story, killing Izana (who would join to be killed a couple of chapters later like Crimson) and the Rainbow Sage and destroying the werewolf and kitsune villages.

They would join right before entering Touma the second time, being the aim of Gunter's accusations of treachery.

Finally, Aqua's amulet would combine with her brother's to form a whole that would negate its inherent curse...

...allowing her to survive this time.

I also have an issue with the personal holy weapons: why are only the male characters getting them? And three swords? No lance or axe?

I'd give Camilla the Holy Axe and Hinoka the Holy Naginata. The axe would halve enemy strength (like Leon's tome with magic) and the naginata would nullify weaknesses when in inventory. Maybe the naginata would be too OP since most classes with weakness to weapons (including Hinoka's base) can use lances, and she gets the lancer class set as well, so she'd barely ever use other weapons.

Elise and Sakura would receive the Holy Staff and Baton, which would restore some life and/or lift debuffs (anti-silver effect) and turn every staff or baton in inventory unbreakable (they'd be unbreakable themselves as well). They would get these weapons near endgame (in order not to break it). Other possible effects would be adding/increasing area effect to staves (around the target) instead of rendering them unbreakable.

The sisters defnitely need some unique gear but unlimited staves would be too much. Maybe something like "30% chance to not lose durability on a staff" or "status staves have 100% accuracy" or "staves have +1 range". Some of the brothers' weapons need to be nerfed as well. Wind God Bow is what Takumi will be using 90% of the time.

Edited July 27, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Thane]

I think the sisters' lack of weapons are more a symptom rather than the root of the problem: they are pretty much superfluous storywise. I suppose Elise plays a small part in Birthright, but that's more or less it.

I was skeptical to having four siblings on each side, but I never thought it would be this bad. Seriously, what does Hinoka do in all three routes? She sees through Zora's disguise after a while in Birthright in the beginning of the story, and other than that I can't come up with much else.

[Azz]

I think the sisters' lack of weapons are more a symptom rather than the root of the problem: they are pretty much superfluous storywise. I suppose Elise plays a small part in Birthright, but that's more or less it.

I was skeptical to having four siblings on each side, but I never thought it would be this bad. Seriously, what does Hinoka do in all three routes? She sees through Zora's disguise after a while in Birthright in the beginning of the story, and other than that I can't come up with much else.

I agree.I really wish they just gave you two siblings: a male and a female and that would have been it.10 main characters for an FE game(Not including Villains)is way too many especially when they get shitty character development with the exception of two(Being Leon and Takumi of coarse)