JupiterKnight Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Eh having Nohr have more siblings than Hoshido would make sense to me considering how Garon can't keep it in his pants. Though they could explain them away with them being killed in the Concubine feuds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I would not have complained at all if Fates had just decided to give you two brothers on both sides and just did away with the sisters entirely, maybe combining certain relevant aspects of the sisters' personalities and giving the brothers slightly different personalities. Four siblings on both sides, eight in total, seems too much for Fates to handle. Also, the only reason I say cut out the sisters and not the brothers is because there are already more FE lords with sisters than brothers. Hell, Chrom already did the older sister-younger sister dynamic in Awakening so I wouldn't want two sisters again, not to mention that Leon and Takumi are basically the first ever younger brothers (well, besides Julius) that any FE lord has had. EDIT: I am not opposed to giving Ryouma and Marx's roles to Hinoka and Camilla and replacing the older brothers with the older sisters, but I'm pretty sure the brothers' multitude of fangirls would kill me. Edited July 27, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azz Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Honestly, I would not have complained at all if Fates had just decided to give you two brothers on both sides and just did away with the sisters entirely, maybe combining certain relevant aspects of the sisters' personalities and giving the brothers slightly different personalities. Four siblings on both sides, eight in total, seems too much for Fates to handle. Also, the only reason I say cut out the sisters and not the brothers is because there are already more FE lords with sisters than brothers. Hell, Chrom already did the older sister-younger sister dynamic in Awakening so I wouldn't want two sisters again, not to mention that Leon and Takumi are basically the first ever younger brothers (well, besides Julius) that any FE lord has had. EDIT: I am not opposed to giving Ryouma and Marx's roles to Hinoka and Camilla and replacing the older brothers with the older sisters, but I'm pretty sure the brothers' multitude of fangirls would kill me. OMG why is it now all I can imagine is yandere Marx XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 This is good. I didn't think about this but it's brilliant! Thank you! One more person to add the to my fanfic's credits list. Hooray, I am important! I actually briefly considered trying my hand at writting a novilization to fix the story, but in the end to do so would mean abandoning my other ongoing fanfic projects, since that endevor is a huge undertaking,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Hooray, I am important! I actually briefly considered trying my hand at writting a novilization to fix the story, but in the end to do so would mean abandoning my other ongoing fanfic projects, since that endevor is a huge undertaking,. Do what you think is best. Edited July 28, 2015 by Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Do want you think is best. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 ? Sorry my phone messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisa180 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm writing a half-novelization/Pokemon crossover of Fates using the Invisible Kingdom path myself. While obviously not fully applicable here, I have changed some things that might be useful in a straight-up novelization. Give the Awakening kids an actual role in the plot. In my story, they explicitly have a duty to fight the 'true enemy' (Hydra), which has the capability to threaten their world if not stopped. The problem is, by the time things get going, they've settled down a little in this world and developed a great sense of loyalty towards their lieges. Which means when Corrin picks the third path, that loyalty leads them to stick with the Nohrians when by all rights they should be joining Corrin in fighting Hydra. In other words, remaining with the Nohr siblings is *directly counterproductive* to their goals as long as they oppose Corrin. They do try to help out here and there, both subtly and occasionally not so subtly, but its more a poor excuse to cover up the fact that they're potentially risking the safety of their world for the attachments they've made in the Fates world. A layer of conflict you might want to think of adding is that Corrin reminds them heavily of Robin, who in my story sacrificed herself to stop Grima and has yet to return from their perspective. One of the three was actually married to her, and the result is he develops some feelings for Corrin because of how much she reminds him of Robin, knows he only feels that way because of that fact, and combined with the above he's ended up as one of the most conflicted characters in the story. I did not allow Xander and Leo to coincidentally 'overhear' Garon's declaration to destroy the world, because that was honestly a cheap way to induce them to turn to Corrin's side. Instead, I put them, especially Xander, through hell as a result of continuing to follow Garon. Leo joins first, but Xander takes a lot longer. In the end, it was only after Garon finally crosses a line that even Xander couldn't accept that he finally started to realize that his father might be *wrong.* What did Garon do? That would be spoilers, I'm afraid. But the end result is that Xander joins Corrin as the result of some hard character development, rather then receiving 'confirmation' that his father was evil. (He DOES receive confirmation of that, but only well after joining Corrin and journeying to the Invisible Kingdom). Integrate Lilith into the plot better. I'm running into the problem of being unable to write out the fact that Corrin was technically transported into another world after falling into the Infinite Chasm. Yes, it might have been a way to introduce 'My Castle,' but the key point is that time passed between Corrin falling into the Chasm, and then returning. Its during the interim that the Nohrian siblings leave, and Corrin is K.Oed and taken to Hoshido. Thus, the Nohr siblings had little idea of Corrin's fate until seeing them again during Chapter 6. The Lilith equivalent in my story is actually a constant companion of Corrin, and far from 'superficial.' It's the 'other world' I'm having problems with, as the plot would be better cutting it out somehow. Corrin's dragon form is not a thing in my story. Seriously, it becomes such an irrelevant point later, that after the first six chapters or so it might not as well be a thing. Unless I've missed something huge, the story might be stronger cutting it. And that's all I have, I think. Hopefully you find some of it useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's a sign of them being the children of Anankos and essentially a Manakete. That's why the dragon form can't be removed. The Nohr/Hoshido siblings have Anankos blood from their ancestors, but that was given to them by Anankos in the past instead of being his kids. Garon being a slime monster that can turn into a dragon is due to him being Anankos familiar and thus more connected to him than a normal human with his blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisa180 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) It's a sign of them being the children of Anankos and essentially a Manakete. That's why the dragon form can't be removed. The Nohr/Hoshido siblings have Anankos blood from their ancestors, but that was given to them by Anankos in the past instead of being his kids. Garon being a slime monster that can turn into a dragon is due to him being Anankos familiar and thus more connected to him than a normal human with his blood. Keep in mind, the author of this thread has said Anankos isn't the father of Corrin in her story. For my own story, that's a separate issue. But let me put it this way. I can easily write out the dragon form. I cannot do the same with the sword given to Corrin in Chapter 2, forcing me to either find a substitute, a non-contrived worldbuilding reason for it (magical weapons are much less justified in a world where people have creatures with powerful magical abilities at their beck and call), or more drastically deviate from the main plot far earlier then originally planned. Since its never directly stated in-story (meaning outside of Supports and 'manual' information) that Anankos is Corrin's father, that sword is literally more important to the plot then the dragon form is. That should say something. Edited July 28, 2015 by Alisa180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Moving on from Hydra let's talk about Garon, or rather "Garon". We know too little about the actual Garon. Fake Garon's role in the narrative was, as Thane put it, summed up in the 3rd Path (shows up, asks for power, dies). I don't see what warrented Fake Garon and the antics surrounding him (namely the crystal ball). It comes off as not only as getting an excuse for the Nohr siblings to drop any doubts they would have about rebelling, but also to make Nohr even more black since we never see Garon show any virtues or even grey areas. Edited July 28, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Moving on from Hydra let's talk about Garon, or rather "Garon". We know too little about the actual Garon. The Fake Garon's role in the narrative was, as Thane put it, summed up in the 3rd Path (shows up, asks for power, dies). I don't see what warrented the Fake Garon and the antics surrounding him (namely the crusual ball). It comes off as not only as getting an excuse for the Nohr siblings to drop any doubts they would have about rebelling, but also to make Nohr even more black since we never see Garon show any virtues or even grey areas. Cause they didn't proof read the script if they did we wouldn't be in this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We thought we would have Ganondorf. in fact, that was more or less what they promised, but Instead, we gained a very stupid and very general villain. And let's not even talk about this whole plan of 'Garon is a monster, we can't tell anyone' and 'We must make Garon sit on the Hoshido throne-blabla BS'. Holy crap, I already have an headache by just talking about it. Who came up with this crap, seriously ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Does anyone wonder if the localisation will fix whatever problems people have with the narrative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Eh, I'm not an expert of how it work, I dunno if it would be possible.Oh boy, and Garon, the real Garon, he was apparently a decent guy. So why did he kidnapped Kamui ? Because Hoshido kidnapped Aqua first ? it would put Hoshido in a not so good light... Well Nope ! Turns out the reason Mary-Sue-land kidnapped Aqua was only and only because Nohr kidnapped Kamui first ! And even if they did such thing, they treated her perfectly right to the point Aqua have nothing but praise about them, despite being apparently treated like crap by a lot of (unseen of course, sans Takumi) people. The writing of this game is such a waste of opportunity. ... Well, at the point we are, I guess saying that Hoshido started to do crap first would a step forward, I guess ?... Edited July 28, 2015 by B.Leu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Does anyone wonder if the localisation will fix whatever problems people have with the narrative? Who knows if Treehouse could even fix half the stuff in this game. Eh, I'm not an expert of how it work, I dunno if it would be possible. Oh boy, and Garon, the real Garon, he was apparently a decent guy. So why did he kidnapped Kamui ? Because Hoshido kidnapped Aqua first ? it would put Hoshido in a not so good light... Well Nope ! Turns out the reason Mary-Sue-land kidnapped Aqua was only and only because Nohr kidnapped Kamui first ! And even if they did such thing, they treated her perfectly right to the point Aqua have nothing but praise about them, despite being apparently treated like crap by a lot of (unseen of course, sans Takumi) people. The writing of this game is such a waste of opportunity. ... Well, at the point we are, I guess saying that Hoshido started to do crap first would a step forward, I guess ?... They make Hoshido seem so nice and it gets old quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) It is mentioned in the IK supports between Kamui and Aqua that in order to sustain Nohr since they live in such a hostile environment Nohr had to conquer other territories to keep Nohr sustained as a nation. Inner turmoil, thievery, and crime are always high because even that only sustained them to an extent. Meanwhile Hoshido is the land that has everything. Good light, decent weather, plentiful habitable land, plentiful crops, etc. To the point that Nohrians disliked Hoshidans just for them being born with a silver spoon in comparison to them. Garon was a flawed man and no means a saint, but he was a loving father who also cared for the women he slept with to the point that he never could abandon them. Even the Concubines as terrible as people they were still loved Garon in return, even if that was their only single good trait. Shenmei gave her life to save Nohr as well and Garon loved her enough to name her queen. So he also left bitter due to the death of some of his children in feuds and Shenmei @Corrin's Father deal: I assume that you guys wait until the Invisible History DLC is released until you make a judgement on whether Corrins a dragon or not and whether they are related to you know who. It's possible it reveals some very important details concerning this story and why Corrin is conceived. Plus some of Garon's dialogue talks about how Corrin "Betrayed" him and the like, so Anankos really wants to ruin their life because he feels his child has betrayed him in some way. Which really wouldn't work if you make him not related, and also half dragon hybrids can always transform unless they lack a stone. So at least explain that their dragonstone is stolen from them. Edited July 28, 2015 by JupiterKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It is mentioned in the IK supports between Kamui and Aqua that in order to sustain Nohr since they live in such a hostile environment Nohr had to conquer other territories to keep Nohr sustained as a nation. Inner turmoil, thievery, and crime are always high because even that only sustained them to an extent. Meanwhile Hoshido is the land that has everything. Good light, decent weather, plentiful habitable land, plentiful crops, etc. To the point that Nohrians disliked Hoshidans just for them being born with a silver spoon in comparison to them. Garon was a flawed man and no means a saint, but he was a loving father who also cared for the women he slept with to the point that he never could abandon them. Even the Concubines as terrible as people they were still loved Garon in return, even if that was their only single good trait. Shenmei gave her life to save Nohr as well and Garon loved her enough to name her queen. So he also left bitter due to the death of some of his children in feuds and Shenmei @Corrin's Father deal: I assume that you guys wait until the Invisible History DLC is released until you make a judgement on whether Corrins a dragon or not and whether they are related to you know who. It's possible it reveals some very important details concerning this story and why Corrin is conceived. Plus some of Garon's dialogue talks about how Corrin "Betrayed" him and the like, so Anankos really wants to ruin their life because he feels his child has betrayed him in some way. Which really wouldn't work if you make him not related, and also half dragon hybrids can always transform unless they lack a stone. So at least explain that their dragonstone is stolen from them. I really wonder what the thing with Shenmei & Garon was cause from Leon and Elise's supports Leon says that when she died Garon became bitter and depressed so it makes me wonder what his relationship was like with her and to a lesser extent Aqua. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 As far as I know Aqua's dislike for Nohr stems from some of Garon's soldiers and the concubines being jerks to her. Whether she had some good memories with him or not is unknown, since he likely died by the time she was kidnapped. Plus Ecaterina apparently made sure any plans to save Aqua were squashed before they could even begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 As far as I know Aqua's dislike for Nohr stems from some of Garon's soldiers and the concubines being jerks to her. Whether she had some good memories with him or not is unknown, since he likely died by the time she was kidnapped. Plus Ecaterina apparently made sure any plans to save Aqua were squashed before they could even begin. Huh I thought she died? maybe I read the part in IK when Aqua meets Carmilla wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Well I know one of Garon's other women was behind it, but it probably matters very little since they are all likely dead by this point and the Garon we know in the game wouldn't care about saving her. Edited July 28, 2015 by JupiterKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Seems like a lot of convenient (and bad) explanation that's don't make much sense to me. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I would of liked if Aqua was just Garon's daughter not step daughter as to make her not be I know everything yet still make dumb ass choices despite knowing more then the rest of the cast. Edited July 28, 2015 by Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JupiterKnight Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Seems like a lot of convenient (and bad) explanation that's don't make much sense to me. :/ Just looking at the official art tells you how bad Nohr has it in comparison to Hoshido.They live in Mordor and it's not even as habitable as the actual Mordor because it lacks good farmland to grow crops and the crappy weather ensures that even those might be malnourished in the end or ruined. Plus a person can be terrible to another nation but still be a loving father and a ruler who will do what's necessary to sustain his nation. There's nothing that makes it a bad explanation at all. You want a bad explanation? How about a magical barrier that makes people not want to attack Hoshido. Because that's an explanation used for why the Faceless exist. Lacking minds they are unaffected by the magical brainwashing properties of Mikotos barrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Just looking at the official art tells you how bad Nohr has it in comparison to Hoshido.They live in Mordor and it's not even as habitable as the actual Mordor because it lacks good farmland to grow crops and the crappy weather ensures that even those might be malnourished in the end or ruined. Plus a person can be terrible to another nation but still be a loving father and a ruler who will do what's necessary to sustain his nation. There's nothing that makes it a bad explanation at all. You want a bad explanation? How about a magical barrier that makes people not want to attack Hoshido. Because that's an explanation used for why the Faceless exist. Lacking minds they are unaffected by the magical brainwashing properties of Mikotos barrier. One thing that gets me why did they just have Takmui and Sakura be Mikoto's kids as well as Kamui cause King Lobster says He saw her and Chrom style fell in love with her and she had a baby Kamui with her, this raises questions cause I'm putting Kamui's age as 2 years older then Takmui so did the old Queen get pushed out then King Lobster do her on the side to get Takmui and Sakura? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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