General US Politics

[Eail]

More realistically, relations somehow improve with Russia, which leads to the mess in Syria being sorted out. It'll also make extradition from Russia to the US easier, which I'll gladly support.

http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-russia-putin-idUSR4N1D800D?c?

I think this article is a pretty good sign that things are gonna turn out okay with Russia. Which certainly makes me happy if nothing else.

[Moira]

Everything I've seen (source 1,source 2) suggests Trump is the most LGBTQ friendly republican in the history of ever.

To be fair, that sets the bar pretty low, as republicans have a history of not supporting LGBT rights.

I think the most concerning thing from an LGBT standpoint is going to be the supreme court choice. Trump stated that he would strongly consider appointing justices to overrule the decision on same-sex marriage (source). From what I know, the supreme court dislikes going against precedence in general, and it would be extremely hard to overturn, but the issue becomes much more concerning when there are plenty of issues that could face the supreme court concerning LGBT rights. For instance, one issue that just came up: (link) Trans issues were at the forefront of the news not that long ago, and I can easily see them coming back. Trump has even supported HB2, which is extremely discriminatory (source). Trump has also supported FADA, which seeks to protect opponents of same sex marriage based on religious beliefs from repercussions from the government(source and wiki on FADA).

On a personal level, I really am concerned about the supreme court, and how that's going to affect the LGBT community. Also, with much every part of the government being majority republican, its not a stretch to imagine that progress on our issues will slow down considerably, or even get backtracked in some ways.

[eclipse]

Er. . .Bal? Were you working on splitting the posts? If not, I can attempt it.

[eclipse]

I'm gonna temporarily lock this topic while I sort out what posts need to be moved. Give me a few minutes!

EDIT: Done! If you can't find your post, and it was relevant to this topic, please let me know!

Edited November 9, 2016 by eggclipse

[Time the Crestfallen]

So can we agree that stuff like this isn't okay?
http://notchicken.tumblr.com/post/152961103096

I mean I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but how is this any different from what the far-right does?

Edited November 9, 2016 by The Blind Idiot God

[Lord Raven]

I can get on board with that. My only issue will come if his presidency ends up leading to things becoming very very very bad (re: hitler).

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[eclipse]

. . .just how many of those are actually celebrity accounts? ;/

EDIT: I'd rather go for impeachment, since it means that Trump needs to fuck up enough to warrant one, first. Let his actions speak for him.

EDIT 2: Ana has a really good point in the next post. Read it.

Edited November 9, 2016 by eggclipse

[Anacybele]

Yeah, that is NOT okay. Wishing death on someone is NEVER okay. Besides, do we really want Pence in office instead? I don't think he'd be any better. Probably worse.

[Time the Crestfallen]

. . .just how many of those are actually celebrity accounts? ;/

None of them I imagine.

Yeah, that is NOT okay. Wishing death on someone is NEVER okay. Besides, do we really want Pence in office instead? I don't think he'd be any better. Probably worse.

He'd be much worse imo. He's more anti-LGBT than Trump with the knowledge and ability to actually get his policies through.

[Res]

So can we agree that stuff like this isn't okay?

http://notchicken.tumblr.com/post/152961103096

I mean I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but how is this any different from what the far-right does?

I'm NOT condoning this (and it's a felony!) but people venting on twitter in the immediate aftermath of the results isn't really analogous to voting for a party that could legitimately threaten one's way of life. People are speaking right now from a place of deep fear.

[Lord Raven]

EDIT: I'd rather go for impeachment, since it means that Trump needs to fuck up enough to warrant one, first. Let his actions speak for him.

EDIT 2: Ana has a really good point in the next post. Read it.

A Pence presidency is absolutely a clusterfuck and that is something we need Donald Trump alive in order to avoid. My point was literally that Donald Trump would have to be a mini-Hitler in order for me to actually wish death on him, and something tells me that won't be an issue.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I'm NOT condoning this (and it's a felony!) but people venting on twitter in the immediate aftermath of the results isn't really analogous to voting for a party that could legitimately threaten one's way of life. People are speaking right now from a place of deep fear.

I was referring to the far-right's habit of sending death threats and other such things to public figures they don't like, not the election.

[eclipse]

A Pence presidency is absolutely a clusterfuck and that is something we need Donald Trump alive in order to avoid. My point was literally that Donald Trump would have to be a mini-Hitler in order for me to actually wish death on him, and something tells me that won't be an issue.

If it does come down to impeachment, then it means that America needs to ask whether or not Pence is the better choice, and that's not a good situation at all.

[Anacybele]

Yep, definitely sounds like Pence would be a lot worse then. Let's hope no idiots manage to assassinate Trump.

[Time the Crestfallen]

If it does come down to impeachment, then it means that America needs to ask whether or not Pence is the better choice, and that's not a good situation at all.

Yep, definitely sounds like Pence would be a lot worse then. Let's hope no idiots manage to assassinate Trump.

As far as I can tell, Pence would be significantly more well-liked by the GOP and hasn't burnt bridges with them like Trump has and shares a lot of his views on top of being more anti-LGBT. So yes, I want Trump to stay in office until at least midterms. Pence would be significantly worse.

[UNLEASH IT]

I'm NOT condoning this (and it's a felony!) but people venting on twitter in the immediate aftermath of the results isn't really analogous to voting for a party that could legitimately threaten one's way of life. People are speaking right now from a place of deep fear.

So in a way, it's fearmongering, the same thing we've been making fun of Trump and his supporters for since a year and a half ago? Lovely how we act the exact same way when the shoe is on the other foot. But god forbid we take a moment to look within ourselves, as liberals, to see where this campaign went wrong instead of immediately crying racism/sexism/homophobia, etc.

[Lord Raven]

If it does come down to impeachment, then it means that America needs to ask whether or not Pence is the better choice, and that's not a good situation at all.

Absolutely not. The only benefit I see from a Trump impeachment is a democratic win in 2020, but an establishment win out of fear that we don't see Pence again.

The difference between Trump and Pence is that Trump's presidency may end up just not doing anything and he will still have his cult of personality. But it in some ways may end up causing actual reform within both parties to prevent this cult of personality from ever happening. Pence will actually act on all of this shit because he legitimately believes it and will cause the system to stay as is, if not get outright worse. I still really really wish Hillary would win because the short-term would be better domestically. I wonder if Trump's existence will reform things long-term.

I'm just trying to find a bit of hope in all of this - and that hope hinges on a) Trump goes back to his moderate 2006 self and b) Trump is really playing the long-con and is sincerely trying to FORCE reform to counteract the cult of personality he formed (he's 71 and unhealthy, may as well go out at 75 as public enemy #1 to everyone). Also c) Pence does not become the POTUS.

At the very least, with Clinton I could feel like I was also voting for Tim Kaine.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Res]

I was referring to the far-right's habit of sending death threats and other such things to public figures they don't like, not the election.

Ah, fair enough. Yes, that's a comparison.

So in a way, it's fearmongering, the same thing we've been making fun of Trump and his supporters for since a year and a half ago? Lovely how we act the exact same way when the shoe is on the other foot. But god forbid we take a moment to look within ourselves, as liberals, to see where this campaign went wrong instead of immediately crying racism/sexism/homophobia, etc.

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Again, I'm not personally afraid, but I'm also not personally affected as of yet. I've agreed that (white) liberals have a lot of introspective work to do. I've also not made fun of Trump supporters' fears.

The people who are afraid today aren't the liberals you're referring to. They're people who have always faced discrimination and for whom discrimination will likely get worse.

Put it this way: If any of those tweets are coming from white liberals, that's absolutely wrong and hypocritical. However, if those tweets are coming from marginalized communities, it's not my place to say their anger isn't justified right now.

[Time the Crestfallen]

On another note, Hillary won the popular vote, so at least we get that.

[Lord Raven]

yeah that worked out well in 2000

[Time the Crestfallen]

yeah that worked out well in 2000

I'll take whatever I can get. At least the majority of people don't support Trump's views, even if the difference is only 1.2 million.

[UNLEASH IT]

I'm not sure what you're saying here? Again, I'm not personally afraid, but I'm also not personally affected as of yet. I've agreed that (white) liberals have a lot of introspective work to do. I've also not made fun of Trump supporters' fears.

The people who are afraid today aren't the liberals you're referring to. They're people who have always faced discrimination and for whom discrimination will likely get worse.

Put it this way: If any of those tweets are coming from white liberals, that's absolutely wrong and hypocritical. However, if those tweets are coming from marginalized communities, it's not my place to say their anger isn't justified right now.

I'm not referring to you in particular, but rather liberals on the mainstream media who constantly ridiculed Trump and his supporters for being paranoid.

[Lord Raven]

I'll take whatever I can get. At least the majority of people don't support Trump's views, even if the difference is only 1.2 million.

My issue is more with how much more vocal people will become. It's more of an issue when you can say and do certain things, because the commander-in-chief may agree. It goes beyond just saying "mean things," because there are things like this and this that are just horrifying.

This is the only solace that you can give people who are a marginalized and disenfranchised minority.

I firmly believe the reason why proper political correctness exists is because of the idea that a widespread hatred of current demographics can potentially lead to people having actually harmful thoughts. For instance, people calling out radical Islamists instead of the individual organizations, basically throwing out a blanket term, will lead to people associating Muslims with terrorists that lead to senseless and racially-motivated violence. It also leads to kids being disenfranchised in America growing up by a country that doesn't want them (and also by kids who will treat them like shit because they don't know any better) which leads to further problems down the road.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven

[UNLEASH IT]

My issue is more with how much more vocal people will become. It's more of an issue when you can say and do certain things, because the commander-in-chief may agree. It goes beyond just saying "mean things," because there are things like this and this that are just horrifying.

This is the only solace that you can give people who are a marginalized and disenfranchised minority.

I assume that you're only joking but you do know that quote is fake right?

http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/

[Lord Raven]

oh shit i did not know that my b

however he was firmly moderate 10 years back, I'm really hammering that in all of my posts. He went on the Daily Show in 2004 with heaps of praise for Jon Stewart.

fyi more relevant and real quote:

Let’s cut to the chase. Yes, I am considering a run for president. … Unlike candidates from the two major parties, my candidacy would not represent an exercise in career advancement. I am not a political pro trying to top off his resume. I am considering a run only because I am convinced the major parties have lost their way. The Republicans are captives of their right wing. The Democrats are captives of their left wing. I don’t hear anyone speaking for the working men and women in the center.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lord Raven