General US Politics

[Tryhard]

47 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

b-b-but hillary's no fly zone

fucking awful. this is going to be Trump's Iraq. i have a very heavy feeling in my body for the people of Syria

it's somewhat poetic that one of the only things I gave trump any praise from (aside from his fervent disapproval of TPP) was that his stated syria position seemed a lot more logical than hillary's

fucking guess not, the neo-conservative war machine is just the same and undoubtedly proven any non-interventionist "America First" airs to be full of shit 

I can only hope that's it's just an Iraq, considering the implications made from people before on hillary's stance (which may or not be hyperbole)

speaking of which, you think there would be any positive spike for his approval as did happen for Bush directly after those wars? i kinda think people voted for trump because they wanted something different (at least in their mind) and a lot of them are going to be pissed that the US will be in another war

Edited April 7, 2017 by Tryhard

[Lord Raven]

55 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

speaking of which, you think there would be any positive spike for his approval as did happen for Bush directly after those wars? i kinda think people voted for trump because they wanted something different (at least in their mind) and a lot of them are going to be pissed that the US will be in another war

I am hoping it's just an Iraq, but I've been reading a few things that basically say things to the extent of people being warned ahead of time (which sounds really odd to me) before it was launched. I'm hoping and I'm also leaning towards no World War 3 type scenario, but striking against a regime that is backed by Russia is really strange to me in a lot of ways due to Trump's ties to Russia. It's also just very sudden which is what makes it all weirder.

I was thinking that this could be an approval ratings thing as well for the reasons you stated, but we'll have to wait on the polls. I'm going to guess that they'll actually plummet further because there are people who voted against Clinton simply on the grounds of the no-fly zone. I had concerns about her foreign policy in general, but at least we could predict her foreign policy because she's a policy nut.

Anecdotally I'm seeing a split on places like /r/The_Donald though, where the mods are actually basically deleting all dissenting stuff and leaving the true conspiracy theorists and the delusional guys. It's quite possible that his approval ratings will plummet, so it'll be the opposite effect of Bush on Iraq.

It's terribly unpredictable now, and those who saw Clinton as a warmonger and saw Trump as a ways away from that will jump ship. He will unilaterally never have support from the left and the moderate factions (especially the third party and Clinton voters, as well as the many who stayed at home) but the Republican side could possibly wane depending on their views on Iraq over the past decade and a half. It also depends on what Fox News panelists have to say on the situation, and I'm not entirely sure what will happen or if they'll just go and blame Obama some more for being a pussy. Even though it's really easy to see why Obama didn't really fuck with Syria.

I just hope the refugees can find a place to live. I emailed a former student of mine who has family in Syria just to see how they're holding up, because it's really frightening.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Lord Raven

[euklyd]

It is worth considering whether this is at all motivated by a desire to divert attention from a certain ongoing FBI investigation.

I'm withholding judgement about the action itself — for now — until I have a chance to think about it more and I understand it better. The hypocrisy behind the action is blatantly obvious, though, and requires no such discerning judgement.

I too don't believe this will lead to WW3, though; if anything I think Putin would simply double down on his support for Assad without either Russia or the US engaging each other directly.

Still scary as fuck, though.

[Water Mage]

I've been reading about the missile attack, and apparently according to Syria itself, innocent civilians, including children, were killed in the US missile attack. If this is proven true, how will Trump answer to that?

[Augestein]

22 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I've been reading about the missile attack, and apparently according to Syria itself, innocent civilians, including children, were killed in the US missile attack. If this is proven true, how will Trump answer to that?

Probably by saying that they were warned and had enough time to leave I'd guess. He doesn't seem like the type of person to publicly say he regrets something. 

[Res]

2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I've been reading about the missile attack, and apparently according to Syria itself, innocent civilians, including children, were killed in the US missile attack. If this is proven true, how will Trump answer to that?

The U.S. has been bombing the Middle East and killing civilians there for years and years. There was barely a single murmur when they bombed a hospital, and Trump already killed civilians (including a child) in Yemen and few cared.

[Tryhard]

8 hours ago, Euklyd said:

I too don't believe this will lead to WW3, though; if anything I think Putin would simply double down on his support for Assad without either Russia or the US engaging each other directly.

I didn't really think so either, it was just a quip considering how much I saw "a vote for Hillary is a vote for WW3", which looks more and more comical now. We'll just hope it doesn't involve other countries now.

5 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I've been reading about the missile attack, and apparently according to Syria itself, innocent civilians, including children, were killed in the US missile attack. If this is proven true, how will Trump answer to that?

I mean, lest we forget, there was reported figures of between 100,000 at the lowest estimate reports to 1 million at the highest estimate of Iraqi civilians killed because of the war in Iraq as a result of the US and US-aligned troops.

Also known as, we "liberate" your country and free your people by killing a huge amount of your people. And then wonder why the vast population hates the west and some can be radicalised against it, because they have killed their families in bombings or such. What a joke.

11 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

I just hope the refugees can find a place to live.

But not in the US, of course. Those "beautiful babies", as Trump puts it, but has Syria on his travel ban twice.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Tryhard

[Water Mage]

I do know that Syria was attacked by the US before, and that the US army killed innocent civilians, but my problem is that he always said that he was against the attacks on Syria and now he attacks them, and ends up killing innocents. Isn't he being a major hypocrite? I believe there was a tweet where Trump condemned the attack on Syria, but I'm on the phone so I can't post it right now.

[Excellen Browning]

Don't worry lord raven the European leftist elite has dragged the European majority kicking and screaming into doing the right thing, even in spite of the Turkish government trying to use the fate of war refugees as political capital.

[Res]

24 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I do know that Syria was attacked by the US before, and that the US army killed innocent civilians, but my problem is that he always said that he was against the attacks on Syria and now he attacks them, and ends up killing innocents. Isn't he being a major hypocrite? I believe there was a tweet where Trump condemned the attack on Syria, but I'm on the phone so I can't post it right now.

Of course he is! And yes, he made many tweets about Syria a few years ago:

In 2012: Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.

In 2013: The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!

President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your "powder" for another (and more important) day!

He also expressed his sorrow over the children killed in this week's attack, but he closed borders to Syrian refugees...

 

[maybe]

9 minutes ago, Res said:

Of course he is! And yes, he made many tweets about Syria a few years ago:

In 2012: Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.

In 2013: The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!

President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your "powder" for another (and more important) day!

He also expressed his sorrow over the children killed in this week's attack, but he closed borders to Syrian refugees...

 

the only time I will ever post in this thread is to post these other two tweets, which are now hilarious in an absolutely terrible way

[Yojinbo]

Yeah with Trump making it official that he's siding with the terrorists in syria the last chance of anything good coming out of his presidency is out of the window.

[Nobody]

What's happening is seriously just sad.

Remember when people in this very thread claimed a Hillary presidency would be worse because she's start a war on Siria and the Donald wouldn't? I certainly do. I wonder how these people feel now.

3 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

Don't worry lord raven the European leftist elite has dragged the European majority kicking and screaming into doing the right thing, even in spite of the Turkish government trying to use the fate of war refugees as political capital.

Angela Merkel is the number one responsible for this and she's hardly what i'd call a leftist.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Nobody

[Excellen Browning]

27 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Angela Merkel is the number one responsible for this and she's hardly what i'd call a leftist.

You must not be familiar with the EU.

(also merkels party is centre and she herself is centre left lol)

[Water Mage]

38 minutes ago, Nobody said:

What's happening is seriously just sad.

Remember when people in this very thread claimed a Hillary presidency would be worse because she's start a war on Siria and the Donald wouldn't? I certainly do. I wonder how these people feel now.

This. I really want to know what those guys have to say now.

[Nobody]

39 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

You must not be familiar with the EU.

(also merkels party is centre and she herself is centre left lol)

economically merkel is center right, see the german budget and the greece affair. In what way is she center left? You're the first people I've actually seem calling merkel a leftist, other than the crazy alt right people who think everyone is a left wing globalist. I also always thought the german christian union was a center right party.

Anyway, left and right wing are sort of meaningless and oversimplifying terms anyway. I mean, in the US merkel would certainly world be seem as a liberal. Here where i live, she'd be called a free trade lover, austerity pushing "neoliberal".

also, who are the main responsible for it, then? Please, enlight me, because i don't really understand what you are saying.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Nobody

[Radiant head]

the media praising trump over this is totally maddening

[Lord Raven]

8 hours ago, Tryhard said:

But not in the US, of course. Those "beautiful babies", as Trump puts it, but has Syria on his travel ban twice.

Yeah I fucking hate how people are willing to elect leaders who destroy someone else's home but shift the blame to avoid responsibility for those that are actually affected. But then again, it's always been so easy to look at these situations from our couch.

I'm 100% for open borders and refugees coming to the US so at least I'm not grouped with them. We as a country must reap what we sow, and things like the attack in Sweden the other day are a result of radicalization coming from this.

7 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

Don't worry lord raven the European leftist elite has dragged the European majority kicking and screaming into doing the right thing, even in spite of the Turkish government trying to use the fate of war refugees as political capital.

but theyre a bunch of (((globalists))) so who cares m i rite

 

@Radiant head it's kind of amazing because his supporters (sean hannity and ann coulter and milo yiannopoulos) were pretty much raging about his disappointed this made them

Edited April 8, 2017 by Lord Raven

[Sage of Ylisse]

Not gonna say much at all, I'm just going to leave a video here that I agree with in terms of the travel ban. 

 

[Time the Crestfallen]

13 hours ago, Radiant head said:

the media praising trump over this is totally maddening

Every time I think the US has finally learnt that sticking it's dick into the affairs of other countries will never end well, I'm always proven wrong. At least it seems to get a little better reach time, if nothing else.

11 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

Yeah I fucking hate how people are willing to elect leaders who destroy someone else's home but shift the blame to avoid responsibility for those that are actually affected. But then again, it's always been so easy to look at these situations from our couch.

I'm 100% for open borders and refugees coming to the US so at least I'm not grouped with them. We as a country must reap what we sow, and things like the attack in Sweden the other day are a result of radicalization coming from this.

The US has been fucking the Middle East over since the Cold War and then they act shocked when the consequences come back to bite them. From what I hear, they don't even teach people about all the shit the US pulled there during the Cold War.

[Sage of Ylisse]

3 hours ago, Mortarion said:

Every time I think the US has finally learnt that sticking it's dick into the affairs of other countries will never end well, I'm always proven wrong. At least it seems to get a little better reach time, if nothing else.

The US has been fucking the Middle East over since the Cold War and then they act shocked when the consequences come back to bite them. From what I hear, they don't even teach people about all the shit the US pulled there during the Cold War.

I can back this up. America's involvement in the Middle East wasn't really touched upon when we were doing the Cold War during class. It's honestly kinda sad we killed an actual democracy in Iran because Great Britain told Eisenhower they were communist. When they weren't.

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, Sage of Ylisse said:

I can back this up. America's involvement in the Middle East wasn't really touched upon when we were doing the Cold War during class. It's honestly kinda sad we killed an actual democracy in Iran because Great Britain told Eisenhower they were communist. When they weren't.

I think any US citizen can attest to this. The Cold War is basically "we didn't use nukes, moving on" in any class. 

[Lord Raven]

6 hours ago, Mortarion said:

Every time I think the US has finally learnt that sticking it's dick into the affairs of other countries will never end well, I'm always proven wrong. At least it seems to get a little better reach time, if nothing else.

The US has been fucking the Middle East over since the Cold War and then they act shocked when the consequences come back to bite them. From what I hear, they don't even teach people about all the shit the US pulled there during the Cold War.

My extent of cold war education was "we didn't use nukes, vietnam was stupid, Jimmy Carter was the devil, Nixon wasn't bad until watergate, and I spent my childhood giving a standing ovation to Rocky movies"

my US History teacher was biased. I was also taught about how Quantum Mechanics was taught at the undergrad level because of the cold war due to competition. In fact, they never told us about any of the proxy wars and jihadist propaganda we spread across the middle east in the name of fighting against communism.

I am not so cold as to believe that I expect people who lose loved ones to terrorism deserve it so much as they need to be channeling all of their anger against the US Government and not the Muslims coming from there. Especially because the Muslim world is something like 100x more likely to be hit by terrorists than the western world.

[Radiant head]

6 hours ago, Mortarion said:

The US has been fucking the Middle East over since the Cold War and then they act shocked when the consequences come back to bite them. From what I hear, they don't even teach people about all the shit the US pulled there during the Cold War.

i mean yeah, it would undercut the narrative that the us is a force of freedom and justice throughout the world.  you guys might like howard zinn's a people's history of the united states.  

 

[Excellen Browning]

21 hours ago, Nobody said:

also, who are the main responsible for it, then? Please, enlight me, because i don't really understand what you are saying.

The european parliament is ultimately responsible for allowing the refugees in. They have the first and final say on European legislation. The EP does not vote according to nation interests, even though they are nationally elected. Added bonus is that smaller countries hold proportionally more seats, so this in and of itself greatly limits the legislative power of the Germans and French in EU matters.

Angela Merkel is the chancellor of Germany and so has a seat on the European council, and being the representative of probably the strongest country she has a lot of listeners. She doesn't have a German voting block in the council, though.