General US Politics

[ClevelandSteve]

Personally, the only reason that I'm not as afraid of Ben Carson as I am of Rubio (even though they're both men of color who have similar backgrounds of being poor) is that Carson doesn't seem all that charismatic and has literally zero political experience, and he's not as scary as Donald Trump because he doesn't have that "Internet Tough Guy" attitude of shouting down his opponents that would make him look like a "strong leader" (though, admittedly, if Carson started acting like Trump, he'd probably just scare away most of the Republican base by being a "scary black man" in their eyes).

For what it's worth, one of my friends from high school (who happens to be a rare reasonable conservative) supports Carson, mostly because he's fed up with career politicians but recognizes Trump as the dumb asshole he is. Carson may be wrong on pretty much all of the issues, but you can't exactly call a neurosurgeon a moron.

[-Cynthia-]

Yeah, Rubio actually has political experience and he made a pretty good argument of why he matches up well with Clinton (younger non-white person from humble upbringings against old white person deeply entrenched in political establishment). It's a bit different from Obama because Rubio isn't a progressive at all really, but the similarities might be enough to sway voters or at least discourage potential Hilary votes.

[Radiant head]

carson is famous for separating two twins who were conjoined, no? i dont understand his motivation to run for president either.

GOP probably paid him a lot of money so they can claim "we got a black guy too!"

[I.M. Gei]

GOP probably paid him a lot of money so they can claim "we got a black guy too!"

he was a talking head on fox for the two years between his leaving his medical career and his announcing his run for the presidency, so this checks out

on another note, one of my favorite goons-turned-legit-columnists wrote an article about carson back when he announced his run:

The Republican Party’s disingenuous exploitation of identity politics explains why for the next few months you will see a lot of Dr Ben Carson (and Carly Fiorina and Marco Rubio), who yesterday announced his intention to fail to become President of the United States. But let us take a cue from the Republican Party and employ a quote they run out whenever arguing that they don’t dislike minorities for being minorities but just coincidentally dislike almost all of them on their merits. Let us judge Dr Ben Carson not by the color of his skin but by the content of his character. Ben Carson is a mean-spirited loon.

This is not to suggest that Ben Carson is an unintelligent man. Far from it! You don’t get to become a Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins and successfully separate twins conjoined at the head without mastering a great deal of formidable and specialized knowledge. And indeed his life story is pretty incredible; they made it into a TV movie! Unfortunately, he thinks he can now operate on the body politic, and, sorry, but you can’t do that, man. That’s just a metaphor.

You’ve probably seen this kind of bozo impulse at work in your life. A friend or colleague amasses a tremendous amount of knowledge in some arcane or specialized field and mistakenly thinks this proficiency applies to everything. At some point, they forget that it’s possible that they could be uninformed on any issue that interests them and they assume any obstacles encountered are the fault of people who have failed to keep up. Call it stupid-smart if you want, call it Carson’s Neurosis, call it whatever — they’re the same problem.

Sure, you say, but how was the announcement? It looked like something arranged by a loon.

There was 25 minutes of music preceding the speech, including a gospel choir performing Eminem’s Lose Yourself. Imagine the thought process that went into that. One hopes, on some fundamental level, that somebody actually said out loud: “The thing that’s kept black people from voting Republican is not enough gospel versions of white rap.” We, as an ailing nation, need that to be true. Starting at 15:30, there was also light opera.

A five minute video of breathtaking grandiosity followed, with a deep-voiced narrator starting off slowly and gruffly before speeding up into something like a mild ecstasy at the notion of launching Ben Carson into the White House instead of the sun. We are told that “historians will write about this critical turning point for our nation and how we responded to the dynamic forces changing our world”, as Carson is likened via images to Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. Okay.

Next, the voiceover guy tells us: “We can no longer afford the continuing dysfunction of opposing partisan rancor ... We have stifled all civilized and productive debate”.

Yo, voiceover guy, I’m really happy for you and I’ma let you finish, but lets read some old Ben Carson quotes:

There was the time he said that Obamacare is “the worst thing that has happened to this nation since slavery.”

There was the time in February of last year that he said that Americans were afraid to speak up against progressives because they were afraid “they will be targeted, they will be called names, they will be investigated by the IRS and all kinds of unimaginable things will happen”. He later repeats this same talking point in his announcement speech. But back then he went on: “There comes a time when people with values simply have to stand up. Think about Nazi Germany. Most of those people did not believe in what Hitler was doing. But did they speak up? Did they stand up for what they believe in? They did not, and you saw what happened.” And if that was just a rhetorical flourish, he clarified a month later when he said that Americans lived in a Gestapo state.

I mean, [our society is] very much like Nazi Germany. And I know you’re not supposed to say ‘Nazi Germany,’ but I don’t care about treating people with respect. You know, you had a government using its tools to intimidate the population ... And it’s because of the treating people with respect police, it’s because of politicians, it’s because of news. It’s all of these things are combining to stifle people’s conversation.

He goes on to make those same “stifling conversation” points in his announcement speech, but with all the Nazi stuff cut out.

Like the de-Nazified Nazi material, much of Carson’s announcement is similar to previous speeches, and frankly his speech just doesn’t pop without Hitler or slaves. Carson has a headset mic and paces the state, trying for the Ted Cruz effect. But Cruz was a star parliamentary debater, and Carson is not. He noticeably searches for his next point and repeats himself, speaking with a heavy-lidded and often downcast visage, as if your tired, exasperated granddad converted a kitchen lecture you didn’t want to hear into a TED talk you want to hear less.

Carson states that he doesn’t want to get rid of the safety net. “This is a blatant lie. I have no desire to get rid of safety nets for people who need them. I have a strong desire to get rid of programs that create dependency in able-bodied people”. Translated back from the Republican, that’s: “I want to get rid of the safety net for anyone who isn’t sick”.

He then flawlessly attacks a straw man argument about socialism that no Democratic candidate has ever made in history: “they want to be involved in every aspect of [people’s] lives. They want most of their earnings.” He boldly says the word socialism and sarcastically says the word utopia. Minutes later, he laments: “We’ve allowed the purveyors of division to become rampant in our society and to create fiction and fear.” This somehow then segues into the words Saul Alinsky and another straw man about, essentially, thoughtcrime.

It gets dumber from there, but it involves math and familiar BS about the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so we’ll skip it. Finally, he says: “We also have a great team. We have — who do we have?” then remembers the names of his campaign advisors and brings them all up onstage after introducing each. We close with them, the gospel choir and the Carsons singing “The Battle Hymn of the Republic.”

This is all going to get worse and hopefully much funnier before Carson goes away. Because, while he’s certainly a brilliant medical mind, he seems unaware or unconcerned with all the things he doesn’t know. What he doesn’t know about foreign policy could probably be described as “all of it.” He honestly thinks that the deprivation of heterosexual contact that leads to homosexuality in prison is a good argument for homosexuality being “a choice.” He once stated that “anarchy” could cancel the 2016 election.

And you will keep seeing him, not only because he’s polling at 7.3% in Iowa (above Ted Cruz!), but because he’s good for identity politics. It works both in terms of optics (eg “How can the Republican Party not appeal to black people when there’s a black candidate?”), and in terms of a far-right fever dream of Ben Carson as the savior candidate who could peel off Obama voters and guarantee a Republican presidency. All he needs is 17% of the black vote, despite offering no policies that address black people’s needs instead of boilerplate conservative, Christian, pro-business needs. The math is inevitable!

Ordinarily, with a candidate this prone to saying things this crazy and with such a steep road ahead, you go to the default answer for why they’re doing this: they’re selling a book, or they’re trying to get a multi-million-dollar annual contract at Fox News, or — if they’re Newt and Callista Gingrich — they’re trying to sell books, children’s books, collectibles, videos, wallpaper patterns and haunted jade figurines. But that’s the interesting thing about a brilliant idiot like Ben Carson. He may, with deep intellectual conviction, have no idea he cannot possibly win.

[dondon151]

but you can't exactly call a neurosurgeon a moron.

yes you can

i've met many good a doctor who are otherwise somewhat moronic

Edited August 19, 2015 by dondon151

[BBM]

Saying that Trump is a moron but Carson isn't because the latter is an extremely accomplished neurosurgeon is dumb. I also think Trump would be a bad president, but it's undeniable that Trump is a very good businessman. The average neurosurgeon is probably smarter than the average businessman, but we're not exactly talking about average people. And in terms of transferable skills, there are probably more from being the latter than the former.

Here's an interesting article I read today:

http://theweek.com/articles/573870/why-not-donald-trump

I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning, but as an outsider who's been paying only vague attention to the race, I learnt a lot about the Trump appeal and hate. Following the rabbit holes linked in the article was pretty informative too:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/a-letter-to-donald-trump-supporters-with-one-big-question/401198/

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/donald-trumps-top-ten-liberal-heresies

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/28/mark-cuban-summarized-donald-trumps-appeal-in-just-43-words/

Some stats:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2274

The support for Biden considering he hasn't even launched a campaign is pretty surprising. Of caurse, launching a campaign always results in becoming more divisive.

[TheAssassinMercenary]

There aren't many Democratic candidates, and frankly, I find most of the Republicans unlikable. I do like Huckabee's ideas regarding replacing income tax with consumer tax, but otherwise, I just can't see him as our president. Donald Trump gets a lot of attention, but it's not exactly good attention (cough, Fox News, cough). My friends joke that if he's elected, the country will plunge into anarchy and/or he'll nuke another country. While I doubt that will happen, I don't think Trump would make a good president either. I don't have much to say about Ben Carson, as I haven't really been paying attention to his campaign. If a Republican were to be elected, I'd hope it was Jeb Bush. He's running a good, clean campaign and I could see him in the White House.

Hilary Clinton is running a better campaign than most of the race, but I like Bernie Sanders' ideals better. I agree with his views on campaigns and how they've become more about money than anything else. He's quickly rising and the polls and I think he would make a good president overall.

[Ansem]

will the real joe biden pls stand up

[I.M. Gei]

between jeb's anchor babies comments, then pivoting to "actually, i was talking about asians, not latinos", and his stepping on the "i'll privatize medicare and social security" landmine his brother did in his second term, and a lot of other gaffes not at the top of my head, i can't help but feel that jeb's actively trying to sabotage his own campaign tbh

speaking of trump, on a more humorous/whatthechrist moment, david duke recently endorsed him.

[spoiler=for the uninitiated, on david duke]

• a literal neo-nazi who...
• won a term as a state senator in suburban new orleans in 1989
• ran for u.s. senator in 1990—lost, but won 60% of the white vote
• ran for governor in 1991—lost, but won 55% of the white vote
• both times, his democratic opponents won thanks to massive black turnout against him; had the demographic changes (read: an exodus of black louisianans) after katrina been in effect in 1990, he'd have served at least one term as Senator David Ernest Duke (R-LA)
• had a trainwreck of a 1992 republican primary campaign, which finally relegated him back to the loony bin where he's stayed since
• when he ran his klan, he claimed it was "just being an advocate for white people's rights". suuuuuuuuuure.
• his ex-wife co-founded stormfront with don black, whose picture you can find with ron paul on page 2 in my "fuck ron paul" megapost
• thinks the jews control the federal reserve, the federal government, and the media and posts on stormfront about it
• has a phd from some notoriously anti-semitic ukrainian university, on his doctoral thesis "Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism"

Edited August 31, 2015 by I.M. Gei

[-Cynthia-]

At least Trump said he didn't want Duke's nomination, so props to him for something I guess.

In other news, Walker wants to consider building a wall...along the northern border of the US. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/30/politics/scott-walker-northern-border-immigration-2016/index.html

Though to be fair to Walker, he doesn't seem to know what his stance on immigration is anyway. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/23/politics/scott-walker-donald-trump-birthright-citizenship-2016/index.html

Not hard to see why Walker's losing support, his campaign seems like a hot mess at this point.

Edited September 1, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[DarthMikey]

Campaigns are losing steam and candidates are panicking across the board in the face of Trump. I'm guessing many of them thought he would show some sign of fizzling out by now, and he's still getting all the media attention while they flounder beneath the 10% polling line. The concept of Trump actually getting the GOP nomination; which is slowly becoming a more viable option; is both hilarious and terrifying.

On a slightly unrelated note, I wasn't aware that David Duke almost became a senator at one point. Imagine the national embarrassment (or worse, lack thereof) over that one...

Edited September 1, 2015 by TheCosmicDude

[Ansem]

If you thought Walker's Campaign was bad, Rick Perry currently has only one staff member in his Iowa campaign

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/31/rick-perrys-woes-continue-as-iowa-staff-is-cut-to-one-person/

Ben Carson also caught up to Trump in Iowa as well

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/politics/poll-donald-trump-ben-carson-tied-iowa-monmouth/

But really fuck that guy. He pretty much has the same views as Trump anyways, and though I'd prefer the latter as he did not grow up on the program he wishes to axe.

Don't get me wrong I do not like Trump at all, but disliking him more than the other Republican candidates is irresponsible. I feel the negative hype he is getting is just media being its usually shitty self. Yes he has said some crappy things, but he shares most of his views with the rest of the Republican candidates. I think this has been said before in this thread, but Trump is embracing what the other Republicans have merely been hinting at.

Joe Biden pls you are the hero that America needs and the one it deserves. I never really liked Margaret Thatcher 2.0 and Sanders is too far to the left which is not a bad thing at all, but as mentioned before America is not ready for a socialist president, so supporting him would be a waste of a vote as he will never get the nomination. But it is too early too tell. Though I was like 11 at the time, I'm sure democrats anticipated Queen Hilary to beat Obama. Perhaps history will repeat? Who knows.

[Crysta]

No. Trump gets all the negative hype because he acts like Trump. When you run as a Republican espousing Republican ideals and Fox News can't stand you, there is a problem.

You can dislike him for his views paired with how he carries himself, because that is important as well, and it's not irresponsible.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Crysta

[BBM]

His views are actually pretty moderate for a Republican (other than immigration). But with the possible exception of immigration nobody knows or cares about his platform. People like and dislike him because of his personality and how he carries himself.

[DarthMikey]

IMO a Trump presidency and a Clinton presidency would probably be fairly similar policy-wise, both because the Clintons have traditionally been centrists who move where they need to go to maintain a good public face, and because Trump is probably still a big-business Democrat at his core who is capitalizing on a weak Republican primary to try and gain power. I'm more scared of Trump simply because, while Hillary would probably tend towards diplomacy and tact (particularly in foreign relations), I can easily see Trump making balls-out crazy deals and wrecking our international reputation simply by doing what he does best; i.e., being Donald Trump.

Edited September 2, 2015 by TheCosmicDude

[I.M. Gei]

on another note, among the GOP primary crowd, 54% think that obama is a muslim and only 29% think he was born in the u.s.

among trump's supporters, 66% think obama's a muslim and 61% think he wasn't born in the u.s.; i still remember back in mid-2011, when he hopped onto the birther bandwagon and made some hay about running for president before going "nah"

if fox news can't stand trump, the fact that he's still polling so high—29% in the PPP poll—goes to show how powerless they are before the voting bloc they have created for the past two decades (along with rush limbaugh, though rush loves trump)

Edited September 2, 2015 by I.M. Gei

[Snowy_One]

Are there any non-crazy third-party candidates?

[Phantom037]

deez nuts

[Ansem]

deez nuts

how to disenfranchise more youth 101

a

[Magical CC]

on another note, among the GOP primary crowd, 54% think that obama is a muslim and only 29% think he was born in the u.s.

Wow, what? That's seriously strange. Why would they think Obama is a Muslim and why would they think he's not born in the US? Dont they like...you know, listen to his speeches about god, religion and all?

[DarthMikey]

Wow, what? That's seriously strange. Why would they think Obama is a Muslim and why would they think he's not born in the US? Dont they like...you know, listen to his speeches about god, religion and all?

To them, he has a scary Muslim name that sounds like Osama. That is actually the very first context I heard Obama's name in (my family members called him "Obama Osama" or something like that circa 2007).

Edited September 3, 2015 by TheCosmicDude

[Ansem]

there is also the hussein in his name but its just a name lol

[-Cynthia-]

Wow, what? That's seriously strange. Why would they think Obama is a Muslim and why would they think he's not born in the US? Dont they like...you know, listen to his speeches about god, religion and all?

The not born in the US thing is still 'contested' I guess, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary(even Trump pretty much gave that one up). The Muslim one is probably just belief that Muslims bad, Christians good and Obama is bad.

[Nobody]

I find it funny how some people complain about Obama "not being born in the USA" when he was but not having a problem with Ted Cruz running, who was born in Canada to a non american father and an american mother. That would basically be Obama's situation had he been born in another country, which means it wouldn't be a problem for him to run anyway. Like I just don't get it.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Nobody

[I.M. Gei]

I find it funny how some people complain about Obama "not being born in the USA" when he was but not having a problem with Ted Cruz running, who was born in Canada to a non american father and an american mother. That would basically be Obama's situation had he been born in another country, which means it wouldn't be a problem for him to run anyway. Like I just don't get it.

according to the PPP poll i posted, 40% of republican primary voters think cruz was born in the us :v