Time the Crestfallen Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Uh, maybe reconsider or rephrase this statement? Science does decide what's right and wrong; it is how we learn. Not really. Science simply defines what is. It is popular consensus and human morality that decides what's right and wrong. Edited August 5, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Uh, maybe reconsider or rephrase this statement? Science does decide what's right and wrong; it is how we learn.Science determines much about how the world works, but biological science is not psychology. The mental side of humanity is far more important than the physical side. People need to follow their feelings to express themselves instead of letting "rationality" define them.Edit: "It" is a disgusting pronoun to use on a human being. Maybe you don't actually realize that I'm not "regressive" lol but actually 15. And I only believe in seeing the power of emotion. I'm not jaded and bitter. Edited August 5, 2016 by Enigmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Science determines much about how the world works, but biological science is not psychology. The mental side of humanity is far more important than the physical side. People need to follow their feelings to express themselves instead of letting "rationality" define them. Edit: "It" is a disgusting pronoun to use on a human being. Maybe you don't actually realize that I'm not "regressive" lol but actually 15. And I only believe in seeing the power of emotion. I'm not jaded and bitter. No, your frontal lobe is not fully developed. And so, you're literally parroting the filth that schools have decided to teach. Like that you're a special little snowflake.Well, you're not and it's naive and dangerous (when it leads to microaggression) to think this way. Tell me. What is so awful about being offensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I believe because I am whiter than sour cream I have had an easier time achieving things than I would if I was a black female, simply because I'm aware of how other people around me perceive minorities (including other minorities). It doesn't apply to everyone I come across, but it's frequent enough that I am confident in that assumption. Maybe there will be a day when I'm not, but today is not that day. Mmm, perhaps. Though, I have a question: do you think there is any other privileges, such as male or religious or others I'm probably forgetting? I think it was good discussing it with you regardless, even if I didn't totally agree. It's not exactly the easiest topic to discuss without it becoming rather controversial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Last post. Promise. The cancer bit? That was a joke that I shamelessly stole from Milo. And the fact is, people actually voted for cancer over feminism. 55% to 45% with a total sample of 22,000 votes. If you feel violated by that joke, please grow thicker skin. Seriously. I'm not going to apologize for it. In fact, anyone who reported me for it ratifies my point that they stifle debate rather than wanting to engage. A joke is a joke is a joke. If you can't recognize it, then sucks for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) I live in the Deep South, my schools are not teaching special snowflake acceptance. I made my views on my own. Having a transgender friend has helped me, as have my own personal experiences. Being offensive is to harm another person. It's just as bad as being physically violent. Especially since most people have mental issues and can be more emotionally fragile than physically fragile. Love is literally the only thing in this world that matters. Edited August 5, 2016 by Enigmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Your counter was "you're a bigot so you're wrong". Quite literally. That's just silly and it is not fodder for intelligent debate. It's great that you think of yourself so morally rightous but as others have demonstated (Raven and Crysta), there are constructive ways to debate a differing viewpoint. You haven't done so yet and you're simply trying to stifle any conversation by painting me as morally evil. Which, as I pointed out, is hypocritical. well, not quite. more like "you're demonstrably wrong and refuse to inform yourself so you're a bigot." others have already gone through the effortpost of providing you sources to support the claim that trans exists. i don't need to do it again. i haven't discussed ethics at all. i've been arguing from nearly exclusively a scientific viewpoint. when mocking you, all of my examples have been scientific. when you cry librul, i cry scientific illiteracy etc. etc. the politics are important, but you continue to have a foolish viewpoint of the science of trans. i can tell you that i am dubious of the claim that things like transcats or transdogs or transdragons can actually exist. i'm also not sure there's much scientific literature on the topic, so for now it's a hunch and not really useful. Edited August 5, 2016 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Last post. Promise. The cancer bit? That was a joke that I shamelessly stole from Milo. And the fact is, people actually voted for cancer over feminism. 55% to 45% with a total sample of 22,000 votes. If you feel violated by that joke, please grow thicker skin. Seriously. I'm not going to apologize for it. In fact, anyone who reported me for it ratifies my point that they stifle debate rather than wanting to engage. A joke is a joke is a joke. If you can't recognize it, then sucks for you. EDIT: I have a shitty mobile ipb client that I use and it hit post for me. I have a response coming.My response: You know that this thread is getting pretty fucking heated over a relatively sensitive topic and you literally say you'd rather your child get cancer than be an entire two demographics of people whose existence you either deny or spit on? And you a) thought this shit was funny (I don't think anyone saw it short of an unnecessary pot shot for the sake of it) and b) told people to "get over it"? I'm seriously with Phoenix Wright on the stuff he says despite him getting heated and I don't think me or Crysta are making any more or less of an intellectual argument than him, and saying that shit makes you hateful and bigoted and maybe only half a step above, if I'm being generous, people who would actually harm transpeople. It was a shitty joke anyway, it was extremely poorly timed, put in the wrong place and it didn't come off as a joke due to your willful ignorance and deliberate use of a slur towards transgendered people. 99% of the things you said in this topic is legitimate vitriol towards transgendered people. I mean I can also say shit like "Hitler was right, the holocaust wasn't real, Syrian men have a right to Israeli vaginas" in the middle of a relatively heated argument about tension in Syria and people would probably report me and get offended because it is an unnecessarily vitriolic and ill placed "joke." It's not even clever, it's just edgy for the sake of edgy. It even makes people avoid rational discussion with you because you expect people to have an thick skin beyond what is reasonable. You are also claiming you want an intelligent debate over an issue but when you say that you'd rather someone have cancer than the stance the other side is advocating you should not be complaining about someone else's attitude. Edited August 5, 2016 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Mmm, perhaps. Though, I have a question: do you think there is any other privileges, such as male or religious or others I'm probably forgetting? I think it was good discussing it with you regardless, even if I didn't totally agree. It's not exactly the easiest topic to discuss without it becoming rather controversial. Gender, religion, age, physical attractiveness... in all honesty there probably isn't a way to make things 100% equal across the board without completely eliminating diversity to begin with. We kind of suck at appreciating differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Science determines much about how the world works, but biological science is not psychology. The mental side of humanity is far more important than the physical side. People need to follow their feelings to express themselves instead of letting "rationality" define them. I think its all balance. You're still in High School so you might read Gulliver's Travels. No spoilers but I think you'll enjoy it since Swift criticized exactly this. I think both extremes, being too spiritual and too scientific detaches you from reality. Spending too much time with the former blurs the boundaries of what is reality and fantasy, and spending too much time with the later might jade you to the point that you lose compassion which is a weakness since we've made it so far as human beings because of compassion. Regarding emotion, it needs more study. As far as I know, I do know emotion is chemical but this chemical balance is very intricate and altering with drug such as some antidepressants can ruin the whole thing. I do know most of them work by sterically inhibiting serotonin reuptake receptors which seems simple in practice, but the shitloads of side effects you hear on television exist because we are breaking this balance. The cancer bit? That was a joke that I shamelessly stole from Milo. And the fact is, people actually voted for cancer over feminism. 55% to 45% with a total sample of 22,000 votes. I don't understand how a straight males can love their mothers, take a lover and at the same time scoff at feminism because of a loud minority group on tumblr. :/ Edited August 5, 2016 by Mimikyu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Why wouldn't Milo's sample base predominantly pick cancer over feminism, lol. He's very anti-feminist and probably most of the people who follow him are to some degree too. It's pretty much confirmation bias (or, dare I say it, echo chamber?), and 55%-45% in that regard is pretty weak. Not that it really proves anything, anyway. Edited August 5, 2016 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) EDIT: I have a shitty mobile ipb client that I use and it hit post for me. I have a response coming. My response: You know that this thread is getting pretty fucking heated over a relatively sensitive topic and you literally say you'd rather your child get cancer than be an entire two demographics of people whose existence you either deny or spit on? And you a) thought this shit was funny (I don't think anyone saw it short of an unnecessary pot shot for the sake of it) and b) told people to "get over it"? I'm seriously with Phoenix Wright on the stuff he says despite him getting heated and I don't think me or Crysta are making any more or less of an intellectual argument than him, and saying that shit makes you hateful and bigoted and maybe only half a step above, if I'm being generous, people who would actually harm transpeople. It was a shitty joke anyway, it was extremely poorly timed, put in the wrong place and it didn't come off as a joke due to your willful ignorance and deliberate use of a slur towards transgendered people. 99% of the things you said in this topic is legitimate vitriol towards transgendered people. I mean I can also say shit like "Hitler was right, the holocaust wasn't real, Syrian men have a right to Israeli vaginas" in the middle of a relatively heated argument about tension in Syria and people would probably report me and get offended because it is an unnecessarily vitriolic and ill placed "joke." It's not even clever, it's just edgy for the sake of edgy. It even makes people avoid rational discussion with you because you expect people to have an thick skin beyond what is reasonable. You are also claiming you want an intelligent debate over an issue but when you say that you'd rather someone have cancer than the stance the other side is advocating you should not be complaining about someone else's attitude. i have to note that i'm not heated it's just that life is an easy target tbh and i'm really bored Edited August 5, 2016 by Phoenix Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) No, your frontal lobe is not fully developed. And so, you're literally parroting the filth that schools have decided to teach. Like that you're a special little snowflake. Well, you're not and it's naive and dangerous (when it leads to microaggression) to think this way. Tell me. What is so awful about being offensive? Not many pages ago, you criticised the far-left for resorting to ad hominem attacks and using them in lieu of any real argument, and yet this post accuses someone who disagrees with you of having an underdeveloped brain, describing their beliefs as 'filth' and resorting to the 'special snowflake' attack. I don't see any rational attempt to refute their statement i.e. psychology is not more important than biology because X, just a personal attack. Also, there's a time and a place for being offensive. Example, I have a fondness for black comedy and gallows humour jokes (race, rape, dead babies, the works). But I will not, nor will I ever tell one of those jokes in polite company or around people who I don't consider good friends and I will not make those jokes around people who I feel would take offence to them (I won't make a holocaust joke to a Jewish person, unless I know for certain they won't mind for example). There are times when being offensive can be used to do good i.e. gay pride parades being offensive to homophobes as a sort of 'we exist, deal with it' kind of thing. However, a reasonable, intelligent discussion is not the time to be offensive. You leave that shit at the door. This is the time for rational discussion/intelligent arguments and being offensive in such debates makes you look childish and attempting to look edgy at best and a hateful bigot at worst. Edited August 5, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Not many pages ago, you criticised the far-left for resorting to ad hominem attacks and using them in lieu of any real argument, and yet this post accuses someone who disagrees with you of having an underdeveloped brain, describing their beliefs as 'filth' and resorting to the 'special snowflake' attack. I don't see any rational attempt to refute their statement i.e. psychology is not more important than biology because X, just a personal attack. Isn't it kind of amazing in the span of a few posts that he has managed to achieve the highest forms of hypocrisy? Even bringing up free speech and that everyone else is stifling debate, hoo boy. And ironically, he's revealed a position in which it's perfectly legitimate to call him bigoted over with extremely poor justifications behind his argument, while complaining about non-legitimate bigotry claims that the left made just previously. Edited August 5, 2016 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Isn't it kind of amazing in the span of a few posts that he has managed to achieve the highest forms of hypocrisy? Even bringing up free speech and that everyone else is stifling debate, hoo boy. I find doing so on the internet to be far worse than doing so in real life personally. In real life debate, it can be pretty easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and say something you don't actually mean or use a word incorrectly. If you're on the internet where you have the time to carefully craft a response however, you better have some good reasoning. And ironically, he's revealed a position in which it's perfectly legitimate to call him bigoted over with extremely poor justifications behind his argument, while complaining about non-legitimate bigotry claims that the left made just previously. The classic 'they call us animals, so let's shit on the floor' routine. Never gets old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Not all mod decisions happen in the blink of an eye. Found out that my stepfather thinks Trump is the best thing ever. This doesn't surprise me, as Trump's rhetoric is meant for people like him. Then again, I barely get along with my stepfather, so meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Not all mod decisions happen in the blink of an eye. Found out that my stepfather thinks Trump is the best thing ever. This doesn't surprise me, as Trump's rhetoric is meant for people like him. Then again, I barely get along with my stepfather, so meh. Racist, white working class or some combination of both? I'm assuming some combination of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Racist, white working class or some combination of both? I'm assuming some combination of both. Racist, speaks more towards emotion than logic, quite selfish, and wants a word in edgewise on everything. He also thought that making a joke involving my mom and some really mentally ill guy was funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Found out that my stepfather thinks Trump is the best thing ever. This doesn't surprise me, as Trump's rhetoric is meant for people like him. Then again, I barely get along with my stepfather, so meh. Though there's plenty college-educated Trumpeteers, they like to repeatedly point out. This just tells me college isn't as cracked up as it's thought to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Person123 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Keep hearing rumors of some big leaks coming sometime tomorrow, could just be nothin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Racist, speaks more towards emotion than logic, quite selfish, and wants a word in edgewise on everything. He also thought that making a joke involving my mom and some really mentally ill guy was funny. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Damn son, I need to get in on this! So, it seems America has to choose between a bigot and someone who really should be in jail. Things aren't looking too good, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 scroll back a few pages the claim that she should be in jail has been debunked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 at this point its less "should be in jail' and more "should be in a nursing home" i do have some questions about her health, i fully expect her to die within the first 100 days, not from assassination,(which is what i'd expect to happen to trump) but from illness, Bill hasn't been looking too good either recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNLEASH IT Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) at this point its less "should be in jail' and more "should be in a nursing home" i do have some questions about her health, i fully expect her to die within the first 100 days, not from assassination,(which is what i'd expect to happen to trump) but from illness, Bill hasn't been looking too good either recently. Oh fuck, I remember seeing a recent picture of the guy. Looked like someone sucked the soul out of his body. Anyway, how did Trump manage to reach this far? I see the "racist white supporters" idea thrown around a lot but I find it a little difficult to believe that there are so many white racists frothing at the mouth to get him to where he currently is. Edited August 6, 2016 by Chad Thundercock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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