Ema Skye Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) I saw this going on r/fireemblem and thought it'd be something fun to try over here. It's really simple and looks kinda fun! Copy/paste their rules. The game will be played on Hard Mode.Every round, we're going to determine the best and the worst unit left to be tiered. So during the first round, we will determine the best and worst units in the game, then the second round the second best and second worst, and so on. Please post your reasoning for your choices. Out of the characters remaining for each round, you should give 3 points to the best unit, 2 points to the 2nd best unit unit, and 1 point to the 3rd best unit, while doing the same thing for the 3 worst units. I'll post an example just to make things clear. Let's say we were using this system in the FE6 tier list and I think the best three units are Marcus, Shanna and Lance in that order (from best to third best), while the worst are Wendy, Sophia and Cath (from worst to third worst). Here's what my vote looks like: Best 3 pts - Marcus 2 pts - Shanna 1 pt - Lance Worst 3 pts - Wendy 2 pts - Sophia 1 pt - Cath Please make it very clear which unit is being given how many points. Each round lasts roughly 24 hours, after which I will update the list and a new round begins in this thread. The game is played somewhat efficiently. No boss abuse or otherwise grinding in any way. Killing enemies quickly is good. Killing enemies slowly is bad. Anything that results into either of these directions, be it high offensive or defensive stats, movement, 1-2 range, availability, etc is fair game. Finishing chapters quickly is cool too. Personality and other story-related things do not matter. All characters are recruited. Recruitment cost is thus a non-issue. Rate character performance from the moment they are player-controlled. For units affected by the route split, assume their best route. Best: Seth Vanessa Ewan Amelia Worst: The Rest: Eirika Franz Gilliam Moulder Ross Garcia Neimi Colm Artur Lute Natasha Joshua Ephraim Forde Kyle Orson Tana Innes Gerik Tethys Marisa L'Arachel Dozla Saleh Cormag Rennac Duessel Knoll Myrrh Syrene I'll start off with: Best: +3 Seth, +2 Vanessa, +1 Artur Worst: +3 Ewan, +2 Amelia, +1 Neimi Round 1 ends in 24 hours. Edited November 10, 2015 by Chicken Doof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Shore. What do we do about units like Saleh and Cormag that are clearly better on one route than the other? Should we have them as separate units? (like Eir!Saleh and Eph!Saleh?) Saleh's a very very good unit but factoring in his existance (or lack thereof) on Ephraim route he turns from a fantastic unit to pure filler. Best: Seth > Vanessa > Franz I'd consider Franz to be better than Artur since when you're not rigging Artur's magic/speed it takes him a while to consistantly double/ORKO things since light magic is kinda lame. The other two should be self explanatory? Worst: Amelia < Ewan < Marisa Amelia has a harder time getting exp than Ewan since Javelins are much worse than magic despite her avalibility lead. Marisa is pretty much a sword trainee herself anyway, "hi I have worse bases and growths than Joshua also I show up like 6-7 chapters later and hero crest competition is already super high". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Sry, Idk why I mentioned Ephraim. Updated order Best Seth +3 Franz +2 Tethys +1 Worst Amelia +3 Ewan +2 Marisa +1 I only dropped Ross from the worst list, because he's the only one who can get become a berserker. Edited November 8, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Best: Seth>Vanessa>Tethys Worst: Amelia<Ewan<Marisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Best: Seth +3 Vanessa +2 Tethys +1 Worst: Amelia -3 Ewan -2 Marisa -1 Neimi chipping a wall in Chapter 3 keeps her from being bottom 3 material in my opinion, since it's at least some sort of positive contribution. Amelia, Ewan, and Marisa don't even have that. Edited November 8, 2015 by Carmine Sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Shore. What do we do about units like Saleh and Cormag that are clearly better on one route than the other? Should we have them as separate units? (like Eir!Saleh and Eph!Saleh?) Saleh's a very very good unit but factoring in his existance (or lack thereof) on Ephraim route he turns from a fantastic unit to pure filler. Assume their best route. Also one other thing. Each round will only list one unit for best and worst, not three. The units who collect the most points in each category gets listed. Edited November 8, 2015 by Chicken Doof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 By "somewhat efficiently" I'll assume reliable efficiency as opposed to pure LTC, then. No rigging Artur's/Lute's level-ups or risky lowest-turn clears that require minute manipulations. Seth > Vanessa > Franz I was considering Franz > Vanessa because with average growths and without exposing Vanessa to risk of death for riskier low-turn clears, she doesn't turn out nearly as well as a full-fledged LTC run has you do, yet her earlygame contributions are still meaningful enough and you should still strive to make her stronger before Tana joins and well, you need a competent flier on Eirika route where Cormag is likely to be ignored. I wonder if we are expected to get the C8 whip in reliable efficiency... Most probably we are since Tirado isn't the easiest boss to efficiently KO. Ewan < Amelia < Neimi While Horace is right that Ewan chips in more reliably to get his exp, Amelia also has access to the cavalier class and has great mobility while still a tier 1 unit. I'd rather prioritise utility when trained to the hardships of training. As for Neimi, you're really hurting your party by using her most of the time, and she makes a terrible sniper AND ranger, all while Innes exists and Gerik could make a much more competent ranger with zero investment. Marisa does more useful things than her if recruited (and we shouldn't penalise units for their cost of recruitment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Best: Seth > Franz > Vanessa This was a coin flip in the end, because Vanessa's glassy and will need the Energy Ring to catch up to Franz's base Strength. In turn, she's faster. . .but fast means squat when she's at half-speed because Eir's on her mount. If we're not rigging Artur's stats, we're not rigging Vanessa, either. I don't need to explain Seth. Worst: Amelia < Marisa < Ewan Amelia takes forever to get going, and is really inefficient at chipping. Marisa's sword-locked, is outclassed by Joshua, and has an affinity that does very little for her offense. Ewan, at least, can chip without putting a giant sign on his forehead that says "please double me". EDIT: Arrow mix-up, sorry~! Edited November 8, 2015 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) I was considering Franz > Vanessa because with average growths and without exposing Vanessa to risk of death for riskier low-turn clears, she doesn't turn out nearly as well as a full-fledged LTC run has you do, yet her earlygame contributions are still meaningful enough and you should still strive to make her stronger before Tana joins and well, you need a competent flier on Eirika route where Cormag is likely to be ignored. The list assumes you rank them by their best route and that it's complete recruitment. [spoiler=My tentative full tierlist before I start]Top Seth Franz Vanessa High Cormag Tethys Duessel Gerik Saleh Moulder Upper Mid Ephraim Eirika Artur Lute Tana Kyle Forde Natasha Colm Mid Garcia Joshua Innes Knoll Myrrh Dozla Lower Mid Ross Syrene Gilliam Neimi Rennac Low L'Arachel Marisa Ewan Bottom Amelia +3 Seth +2 Franz +1 Vanessa -3 Amelia -2 Ewan -1 Marisa Edited November 8, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Why do you consider Colm and Moulder to be good units? Colm is obseleted by chest keys very quickly and Moulder sucks at gaining exp himself (even when not playing super fast) I have other qualms (like Saleh being 8 spots lower than Duessel, wut) but I'm seriously confused by Colm and Moulder. EDIT: Perhaps it might be a better idea to wait to discuss this when it's relevant since it's not that relevant to this day at hand, I dunno. Edited November 8, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) @ Colm, I forgot you got to buy Chest Keys after Chapter 9. That limits stuff only he can claim to; Chapter 3 Iron Lance, Hand Axe, Iron Sword (Chests, someone is probaby using the Chest Key to get the Javelin. Not that significant) Antitoxin, Pure Water (Steal, pretty far out of the way, not very useful) Chapter 4 Vulnerary (lol) Chapter 7 Energy Ring (Steal, this is pretty good) Chapter 8 Angelic Robe, Elysian Whip, Silver Sword (Chest, don't think the Sword is considered worth it but the Whip is great) Lockpick (Steal, just gold, don't think there's time without dropping turns) Chapter 9 Ephraim Ocean Seal, Restore, 2500 Gold (Ocean Seal is a lot of money, so that's nice. The other two don't matter that much) Red Gem (Steal) Chapter 10 Eirika Talisman, Red Gem (Steal) Chapter 13 Eirika Red Gem, Body Ring (Steal) Chapter 13 Ephraim Red Gem, Speedwings (Steal) That's not as good as I thought, although getting the Whip is fantastic. I suppose if you save the Chapter 3 Chest Key it can be obtained without him though? Been a while since I played. Speedwings are always nice. The Body Ring is good but less important because there's one in the Desert. Red Gems aren't all that important IIRC and are hard to get in tandem with any other items. Desert Item trick also hurts him. Bumped Colm down to the bottom of Upper Mid. As for Moulder, I assumed unrigged Artur/Lute don't get to promotion fast enough to spam Torch in Chapter 11 which deprives them of a lot of staff EXP. That means they'd have to rely on Mend/Barrier spam (maybe some Hammerne?) to get to Warp, and I'm not convinced they'd hit A in time with no Torch spam without slowing down a bunch, which means only Moulder (or Natasha I guess) have Warp for Chapter 16 and 17, and one can save a lot of turns on those maps even with a low Warp range. If I'm incorrect in this assumption, then Moulder drops down significantly, and Artur and Lute probably go up a bit. Also yeah on second thoughs, Saleh should be higher. Bumped to high. Edited November 8, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Seth>Vanessa>Franz Kills the entire world, flies really early, Seth junior Amelia<Ewan<Knoll Both Amelia and Ewan are essentially worse versions of units that come earlier but also require investment. Knoll just comes too late and too low levelled to be useful, although Marissa's in a similar boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I wouldn't put Neimi in bottom 3 just because early game is easy enough for her to gain Exp and she can promote into a mounted class. She's severly outclassed by Gerik but mounted!Nidhog among other things looks much better than anything Marisa, Ewan, Amelia and Knoll have to offer. I'm not sure about how good Myrrh is but Neimi may very well be better than her, Eph!Innes, Rennac, Dozla and Gilliam as well. She's bad but it's not irredeemably bad like the FE6 and FE7 archers because of easy early game + actual potential to become solid later on. Top 3 seems to be pretty much completely agreed upon that Seth > Vanessa > Franz which I agree with. Bottom 3 would probably be something like Amelia < Ewan < Marisa though Knoll also sucks. He's either bottom 3 or 4th worst probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Seth>Vanessa>Franz Curbstomps the game, Flies and has great stats, basically Seth MK.2 Amelia<Knoll<Ewan Amelia struggles with pretty much everything, Knoll has poor bases and can't do all that much, Ewan is outclassed, but can do what Knoll could possibly be used for (Summoner/Dark Magic) better than he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Myrrh is like a billion times better than Neimi lol. Best: Seth > Vanessa > Tethys The first two should be self explanatory (both have unique contributions that noone else can replace), whereas I put Tethys above the likes of Franz because all of Franz's contributions are generally ease of use. I'm sure he saved a few turns in some of Horace's reliable the strategies but otherwise he's not exactly super necessary at all. Don't get why everyone has him so high honestly. I'd probably put Saleh above him too. Worst: Amelia > Ewan > Marisa Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Still, Neimi shouldn't be placed in bottom 3 like some people do. I think even bottom 5 is stretching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Neimi is by far the best archer in GBA character and far away from being bad in FE8. She's squishy, but she's good for chipping in the beginning. And her good growths make her a very solid unit later on. Edited November 8, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The list assumes you rank them by their best route and that it's complete recruitment. Should we really take that everybody must be recruited in a playthrough, or just that each separate character is assumed to be recruited at no cost when we get to tiering them? Because not wanting to wait for Cormag is natural, and a point in Vanessa's favour as far as Eirika's route goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 take it up with the OP not me All characters are recruited. Recruitment cost is thus a non-issue. Rate character performance from the moment they are player-controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Knight Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Seth > Tethys > Vanessa Amelia < Ewan < Knoll Neimi can get a horse and hit walls, Marisa can get at least have +15 crit, Knoll can... summon weak Phantoms and never access the stronger ones because he won't get enough levels, assuming efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Phantoms can bait out siege tomes and actually take units and drop them (and since their movement type is pretty much flier iirc, that's kind of good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 @IrysaYeah, but seeing what the last two sentences basically makes the "all" part read as "each" instead. I think this dictates a strange sort of run where we hang back and do things like train up Bartre to 10-20/5+ in order to get Karla. It's far more sensible to read this as "Karla is assumed to be recruited, and we do not punish her for her unreasonable cost" rather than this being a tier list of a playthrough that has to feature lv. 5 Warrior Bartre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) I sort of see what you're getting at; we can't assume EVERY unit is being used in every playthrough, just some combination of units, and each unit is being used in at least one of those hypothetical situations. This is because it's simply not possible to have a playthrough where every unit is contributing on every map. But full recruitment can be done with any combination of units in FE8. I don't see any problems like FE7 has in that regard, especially given Cormag is very easy to recruit in Ephraim's route (and is better overall in that route anyway), so the following applies. For units affected by the route split, assume their best route. EDIT: Also FWIW, I agree that Knoll is not THAT bad. Instant promoting to Summoner is marginally useful because of how Phantoms can be used as distractions against Shadowshot Arch Mogalls, baiting enemies away from your bosskiller on route to the throne, rescue shenanigans, etc. Marisa does literally nothing. Edited November 8, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Knoll can be insta-promoted to give him access to Summon and Staves. Though it's really just an excuse of utility more than anything else we can at least claim that some use can be squeezed out of Knoll, if only for the sake of the argument. Marisa just doesn't do ... anything. I don't remember exactly what happens in Ephraim's route but on Eirika's route Marisa wastes turns to recruit too. Edit: I also don't think it's a good idea to just assume best route for each unit. Units affected by the route split should have different entries on the list for each round, unless there's no real difference as in case of the bottom 3 units. Edited November 8, 2015 by Yojinbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Calling it: this list is going to be almost the same as the subreddit one, except maybe this time Tana won't be turbo overrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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