Why are people mad that Cloud is in Smash?

[Jedi]

Ike was also an appropriate choice for Cloud to fight because all of the Brawl mods replaced Ike with Cloud.

Yeah this too, plus I could see them being friendly rivals in canon too.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Jedi

[Refa]

Neither of them seem like the type that would have rivals though (of their own volition), considering their personalities.

[Jedi]

This is also true hahaha. Silly me, they'd possibly be friends then.

[Florete]

I'm surprised they used Ike for the Omnislash presentation rather than Link. When Link got Triforce Slash in Brawl it was often compared to Omnislash. Not to mention Link vs. Cloud is a popular "Who would win in a fight" argument with it even getting its own Death Battle and the gfaqs character tournament almost always has those two as the final battle.

Ike just resembles Sephiroth more than Link.

[Dai]

I would've picked Shulk for that scene myself, to be honest. I mean, both he and Sephiroth have models used where they're stripped to the waist.

[Leona]

Let me guess... you were defeated by the "Attack while it's tail is up!" line, right?

Line break

"And its gonna attack with its laser!"

Yeah, something like that. I didn't know any English at the time.

[Jedi]

Ah I see, one of my best friends who is from Costa Rica learned English from playing FF speaking of which.

[Busterman64]

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in and say while I'm not really familiar FFVII since I never played it like 1,2,3 (DS),5,6,10, and 12(although I have seen at least seen 2 or so hours of it via a stream. I gotta say, I REALLY hope one of Cloud's costumes is his cross dressing outfit, just for the sillynes alone! It would be glorious), I will say this excites me greatly! Cloud seems pretty fun and his stage looks AWESOME!

Also, while I do want certain characters in (Tales of.characters to be exact since I love that series), I'm not gonna be really upset if they don't since there are over thousands of people who want the same character or other characters, so at least one character I want isn't gonna make it.

Not to mention we didn't HAVE to get DLC characters.

People please stop calling Cloud an emotionless super sad emo or an edgy fuck. Don't touch anything from the sequels and prequels and spin offs of FFVII because all of those games got his character wrong.

Cloud can be insecure, depressed, always worried (for a good reason), but he can also be brave, very kindhearted and compassionate, funny, snarky and shy.

Not to mention his moments of depression all have a reason to be. He is not a spoiled rich kid who hates everything, he is an ex-solder with mental traumas and who saw the girl he very probably loved die in front of him, he is a young man who doesn't know his past and is afraid of his own self.

Consider that when FFVII came out this was very new for a lot of RPG newcomers and for some RPG gamers too, and on top of it, it was convincing, and Cloud's depression is still filled with redemption and still ends with him trying to overcome it and be brave.

It's because other less good companies tried monkeying FFVII's plot and heavy themes that now "whiny" protagonists are a thing. Not to mention Squaresoft themselves kinda did it themselves with Squall, and that FFVII still has a very important environmentalist theme (so all the "whining" is not all there is in the game).

Yeah, I'm sorta off topic here, but I want people to know Cloud is more than what the Complications of Final Fantasy VII or Dissidia want you to think.

I've only known the Cloud from Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2 for the longest time (who I found pretty B.A. when I first saw him and thought he was the kind of guy who likes solving his problems himself without the help of his friends so they would be unharmed...plus he wanted Sepheroth sliced and diced :3), but at the same time I've also heard how different he is in FFVII and how Advent. Children screwed his character over the years. So, I know there is more to him than just being Emo. (I really need to get around to playing FFVII...).

Oh, and the petition thing is really stupid! I thought the one for Federation Force was dumb, but this one takes the grand prize! The DLC is more or less fanservice and you'd be surprised how many people wanted Cloud (although, all I know who wanted him is FireyJoker/ Joshscorcher on Youtube). Beside, Sakurai always make Smash Bros games as if it were the last so, might as well put him now because the chance may never rise again (...which would actually make a good counter-arguement...crap).

He can't put EVERY character in and I'm pretty sure Samurai has his limits that he can break and limits that he cannot break!

You know though, the saltiness isn't gonna really be bad until the Smash Bros Broadcast in December! Dear lord...the saltiness will be massive!

Edited November 15, 2015 by Busterman64

[Aiddon]

The same reason we get complaints after ANY character gets announced: people think it "stole" the slot of a character they wanted. It's the go-to defense mechanism; make things as patronizingly simplistic as possible in order to make the argument as critic-proof as possible. I say Nintendo should go for it, because the amount of publicity they got from Cloud pretty much made the internet implode.

Plus, it's clearly not shallow pandering (and even if it was, this is SMASH BROS., a game built around fanservice i.e. high quality pandering) due to the attention to detail that Sakurai and Namco have done. Cloud and the Midgar stage are clearly taking more inspiration from their origins than any of the mistaken interpretations of them that SE and Nomura have tried to cram down our throats for over a decade. Heck, Cloud's first couple lines in the trailer are him saying "Well, this is right out of nowhere, isn't it?" and then followed by him going "Bring it.", which is something Cloud would DEFINITELY say in FFVII. The only significant attributes he has from subsequent appearances is the overdesigned AC wardrobe, but that might have been more on Square than Sakurai (because they love to cram their worst ideas down people's throats until they annoy them into submission. See also, Lightning).

Some stray observations on this. I do find it funny how Sony tried and FAILED to get Cloud in Playstation All Stars (which everyone has clearly forgotten about by now) but Nintendo didn't have to do much of anything to get him in. It's like SSBB already slapped PSABR before the game was even made and then years later decided to add another spanking. Secondly, Cloud has to have been in development for awhile, the Ballot only ending last month which is not enough time to make a character as fully designed as he is, so this means the Ballot winner is still up in the air. And finally: we have a Smash Presentation next month. What the HELL are they planning for that if Cloud is the APPETIZER??????

Edited November 15, 2015 by Aiddon

[The DanMan]

The same reason we get complaints after ANY character gets announced: people think it "stole" the slot of a character they wanted. It's the go-to defense mechanism; make things as patronizingly simplistic as possible in order to make the argument as critic-proof as possible. I say Nintendo should go for it, because the amount of publicity they got from Cloud pretty much made the internet implode.

Plus, it's clearly not shallow pandering (and even if it was, this is SMASH BROS., a game built around fanservice i.e. high quality pandering) due to the attention to detail that Sakurai and Namco have done. Cloud and the Midgar stage are clearly taking more inspiration from their origins than any of the mistaken interpretations of them that SE and Nomura have tried to cram down our throats for over a decade. Heck, Cloud's first couple lines in the trailer are him saying "Well, this is right out of nowhere, isn't it?" and then followed by him going "Bring it.", which is something Cloud would DEFINITELY say in FFVII. The only significant attributes he has from subsequent appearances is the overdesigned AC wardrobe, but that might have been more on Square than Sakurai (because they love to cram their worst ideas down people's throats until they annoy them into submission. See also, Lightning).

Some stray observations on this. I do find it funny how Sony tried and FAILED to get Cloud in Playstation All Stars (which everyone has clearly forgotten about by now) but Nintendo didn't have to do much of anything to get him in. It's like SSBB already slapped PSABR before the game was even made and then years later decided to add another spanking. Secondly, Cloud has to have been in development for awhile, the Ballot only ending last month which is not enough time to make a character as fully designed as he is, so this means the Ballot winner is still up in the air. And finally: we have a Smash Presentation next month. What the HELL are they planning for that if Cloud is the APPETIZER??????

Umm... I'm not quite sure you've looked through this thread if that's your response.

Outside of a few minor cameo appearances, Cloud and the Complication of Final Fantasy VII have not appeared on any Nintendo console.

If Final Fantasy was to be repped, Warrior of Light or a generic Black Mage would have made more sense due to Nintendo origins (yes, WoL is more of an OC based off of the FFI Warrior class, but is still inspired by the FFI Warrior class).

And what if Cloud was purely the publicity? Get the "hype" out first to pave the way for other things? I don't see how he would be the "appetizer" for much greater things.

[Jedi]

Umm... I'm not quite sure you've looked through this thread if that's your response.

Outside of a few minor cameo appearances, Cloud and the Complication of Final Fantasy VII have not appeared on any Nintendo console.

If Final Fantasy was to be repped, Warrior of Light or a generic Black Mage would have made more sense due to Nintendo origins (yes, WoL is more of an OC based off of the FFI Warrior class, but is still inspired by the FFI Warrior class).

And what if Cloud was purely the publicity? Get the "hype" out first to pave the way for other things? I don't see how he would be the "appetizer" for much greater things.

Considering the EU direct pretty much made it clear that December will be the end of Smash DLC, I think they have something to possibly top Cloud, but what that is who knows.

Also I don't think WoL or Black Mage are iconic enough to Final Fantasy, yes Black Mage is a series staple, but one doesn't think instantly of Black Mage when they think of FF, they think of Cloud.

[The DanMan]

Considering the EU direct pretty much made it clear that December will be the end of Smash DLC, I think they have something to possibly top Cloud, but what that is who knows.

Also I don't think WoL or Black Mage are iconic enough to Final Fantasy, yes Black Mage is a series staple, but one doesn't think instantly of Black Mage when they think of FF, they think of Cloud.

Unless they go full WTF with Goku, virtually nothing will top Cloud; people have already opened up expectations to the likes of Banjo. Either way, I'm predicting a few safer choices.

The debates over "who's more iconic" seem to lead nowhere, and are largely unquantifiable. As you said, Black Mage is a series staple (and has a few cameos as well); Cloud is purely FFVII. I'm not disagreeing on general overall popularity; I'm thinking of overall relevancy and representation for an entire series that's been going for a couple of decades -said the 16-year-old who barely touched video games for the first half of his life.

In the end, I'll agree to disagree.

[Ercdouken]

Going off topic here:

Considering the EU direct pretty much made it clear that December will be the end of Smash DLC, I think they have something to possibly top Cloud, but what that is who knows.

They never said December will be the last of Smash DLC. Just the last special broadcast for Smash. I don't think the ballot character(s) could be finished by December considering the ballot only ended in October.

[Jedi]

Unless they go full WTF with Goku, virtually nothing will top Cloud; people have already opened up expectations to the likes of Banjo. Either way, I'm predicting a few safer choices.

The debates over "who's more iconic" seem to lead nowhere, and are largely unquantifiable. As you said, Black Mage is a series staple (and has a few cameos as well); Cloud is purely FFVII. I'm not disagreeing on general overall popularity; I'm thinking of overall relevancy and representation for an entire series that's been going for a couple of decades -said the 16-year-old who barely touched video games for the first half of his life.

In the end, I'll agree to disagree.

I think if they did a dual reveal of Simon Belmont and Snakes return, it would garner a bit of attention, probably not Cloud attention, but it would grab people, Wolf would be a crowd pleaser as well, as would Banjo

I appreciate talking with someone calmer about this, I've been arguing about this all over the internet and its nice to see there is some sanity left lol. I can see why people aren't thrilled, but I think Cloud has as much for RPGs as Ryu has for fighting games and seeing them both in with all the colorful characters we have is really cool.

I mean when I think about it Smash has allowed us for some grand levels of old "What If's" like Mario vs Link was Sakurai's basis for how Smash even started, after Dragon King was looking kinda bland.

We had cool matchups and stuff like, Oh man I can have Bowser fight Ganondorf, or what if Fox squared off against Samus!? So many others as well, then we had Brawl with the oddities of Snake and Sonic

Snake never really had that "Vs" thing, but he was a really interesting and unique character.

Sonic, good lord when that happened my childhood exploded, I could finally have 2 of my childhood icons, Sonic and Mario duke it out.

Megaman came along in 4, which made tons of people happy, Mario vs Megaman! Sonic and Megaman team up again after their comic book together!

Pac-Man, was simply... Whoa we have the 4 gaming legends now, whats next?

Ryu was an odd one, but it was cool to see him again, the King of Fighting games in Smash Brothers, looking for more challengers after he'd duked it out with SNK, Marvel and Tekken's casts previously.

Now we have one of the legends of the late 90's, someone who personified JRPG's for many people, his personality hit and miss in the later spinoff titles, he was greatly seen as a hero, and one of gamings new heroes to boot. Cloud vs Link was a popular "what if" back in the day as well, regarding the whole FF7 vs OOT thing going on as well.

I just look back and think of it, we have 45+ Nintendo All-Stars, ones we all know and love (for the most part), along with them are Sonic The Hedgehog, Nintendos old rival. Megaman, Capcoms old classic who fit in with their games so well you could mistake him as a Nintendo character, Pac-man, the old Arcade champion, Ryu the Fighting Game Legend, and now Cloud Strife who paved the way to many a players JRPG love.

While Cloud isn't exactly Nintendo, and was fairly anti-Nintendo back in the day, considering FF7 did have a planned N64 version, but the cartridge couldn't handle that, and after the disagreements with the SNES add-on, Sony opened their arms for then Squaresoft, although despite that, Square-Enix and Nintendo have had fairly good relations, tons of great games and even recently such as Bravely Default. Cloud isn't as much a Sony icon as others think though, considering FF7 had a pretty swift PC port as well, not anything special or Nintendo related, but I felt I should mention it.

But he's the closest thing I think Square-Enix has to a mascot, he's been referenced in many places and gamers typically know who he is, I think this is part of why he was the choice. He's marketable, he's known, he's for sure gotten peoples attention, heck i've seen quite a number of people finally determined to get a Wii U thanks to Cloud and also Xenoblade X

Maybe its because I grew up with all these characters, that I'm accepting to one of my favorite RPG protagonists joining them. I just see a level of awesomeness, like I was giddy, and Sakurai as usual showed absolute respect and the trailer alone showed it. I have FE and FF in the same game!? Who'd have though that'd ever happen?

Going off topic here:

They never said December will be the last of Smash DLC. Just the last special broadcast for Smash. I don't think the ballot character(s) could be finished by December considering the ballot only ended in October.

I still think its very potentially the last set of DLC.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Jedi

[Knight]

If they didn't make a decision on who the ballot character will be months before the ballot ended, then I very much doubt this is the last Smash DLC coming, since I wouldn't think it possible to go through all the licensing stuff, and then make a character fully polished in such a short time.

[Knife]

Jedi said:

"I still think its very potentially the last set of DLC."

Amen

Edited November 15, 2015 by Knife

[Busterman64]

Considering the EU direct pretty much made it clear that December will be the end of Smash DLC, I think they have something to possibly top Cloud, but what that is who knows.

Also I don't think WoL or Black Mage are iconic enough to Final Fantasy, yes Black Mage is a series staple, but one doesn't think instantly of Black Mage when they think of FF, they think of Cloud.

Unless they go full WTF with Goku, virtually nothing will top Cloud; people have already opened up expectations to the likes of Banjo. Either way, I'm predicting a few safer choices.

The debates over "who's more iconic" seem to lead nowhere, and are largely unquantifiable. As you said, Black Mage is a series staple (and has a few cameos as well); Cloud is purely FFVII. I'm not disagreeing on general overall popularity; I'm thinking of overall relevancy and representation for an entire series that's been going for a couple of decades -said the 16-year-old who barely touched video games for the first half of his life.

In the end, I'll agree to disagree.

Who said one character has to top Cloud? It could be 3 characters combined! We're not sure how many characters are coming as DLC, and while the most recent patch was said to have had 3 character slots, who said those are for the Smash Ballot characters? Data mining has spoiled stuff before, so Nintendo may be trying to be more careful this time around ...and maybe try to mess with us. It's a thought!

[The DanMan]

I decided to check Legends of Localization for Japanese reactions, and it didn't dissapoint: http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-do-japanese-fans-think-of-cloud-in-super-smash-bros/

Seems pretty much like the reactions in this side of the Pacific (also, find it funny that some people wrote it off as "foreign appeal"; guess that's a go-to excuse in this day and age). Same PSAS:BR jokes; and is that the Neko Knight in the comments?

Edited November 15, 2015 by The DanMan

[Jedi]

I decided to check Legends of Localization for Japanese reactions, and it didn't dissapoint: http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-do-japanese-fans-think-of-cloud-in-super-smash-bros/

Seems pretty much like the reactions in this side of the Pacific (also, find it funny that some people wrote it off as "foreign appeal"; guess that's a go-to excuse in this day and age). Same PSAS:BR jokes; and is that the Neko Knight in the comments?

Foreign Appeal? Wow haha, thats quite interesting, they wrote off Little Mac that way too.

[B.Leu]

Honestly, I don't care much, just like most DLC characters, I'm mostly curious, I don't see what's the rage is about.

I guess that if I have to be honest, I can't help but think that Cloud might be there for mostly marketing reason, but this the worse I can think of.

Still waiting for a Belmont, Shovel Knight and the like. Eh Cecil from FF4, this is an interesting thought.

Edited November 15, 2015 by B.Leu

[Elibean Spaceman]

0/10 no shovel knight or shantae

Edited November 17, 2015 by Larverto

[Jedi]

Honestly while Shovel Knight has been a huge success, I think Quote from Cave Story would be the best Indie playable, because Quote is what made the whole thing launch into the minds of more people.

[B.Leu]

Honestly while Shovel Knight has been a huge success, I think Quote from Cave Story would be the best Indie playable, because Quote is what made the whole thing launch into the minds of more people.

Quote, eh ? Awesome idea, I fully agree with you ! Cave Story is the indie game after all.

[euklyd]

Source Gaming recently pointed out that it's not even Cloud breaking the must have been on a Nintendo console "rule."

Heihachi was considered for inclusion during development, but killed for reasons unrelated to which consoles he'd appeared on.

[Jedi]

Source Gaming recently pointed out that it's not even Cloud breaking the must have been on a Nintendo console "rule."

Heihachi was considered for inclusion during development, but killed for reasons unrelated to which consoles he'd appeared on.

Is that what the gag at the end of Ryu's trailer was supposed to elude to? I wonder.