Why are people mad that Cloud is in Smash?

[Deviddo]

Hold on. People SERIOUSLY think that Cloud is the last Smash DLC character? No. I highly doubt that. Cloud's not the ballot winner, he would've been announced as such.

[Florete]

Hold on. People SERIOUSLY think that Cloud is the last Smash DLC character? No. I highly doubt that. Cloud's not the ballot winner, he would've been announced as such.

1. Stop saying "the ballot winner." It's not a contest and there will almost definitely be more than one.

2. Regarding Cloud, Sakurai stated on Twitter that he "fulfilled a difficult request." Cloud is most likely a ballot choice.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Knight]

1. Stop saying "the ballot winner." It's not a contest and there will almost definitely be more than one.

2. Regarding Cloud, Sakurai stated on Twitter that he "fulfilled a difficult request." Cloud is most likely a ballot choice.

Even if it wasn't decided by a tally, whoever gets in because of the ballot could be considered winner(s)

A difficult request could have meant a request by Square Enix, as Snake's inclusion was decided in a similar way (a request of Kojima).

[Jedi]

Honestly it doesn't seem like something SE would request it sounds like something Sakurai had to arrange.

Although considering how protective SE usually are of their properties this is a good sign of trust.

[NoNameAtAll]

So much salt. I've already made it clear that a better FF character to represent is Gilgamesh in my opinion, but even I found this to be really neat. Cloud's number of appearances is behind only Gilgamesh as far as I remember, so he is pretty much a FF staple.

And...whiny? Emo?

...I rest my case.

[Jedi]

People are too used to Compilation (Outside of Last Order/Crisis Core) Cloud, which is why they throw the emo term at him.

When in FF7 he isn't really at all.

[NoNameAtAll]

People are too used to Compilation (Outside of Last Order/Crisis Core) Cloud, which is why they throw the emo term at him.

When in FF7 he isn't really at all.

Pretty much yeah. He's more of a dork than anything when his real personality shines through rather than the mask he basically wears for a good chunk of the game. Also Jedi?

Braver may semi work like Aether

I think that was Climhazzard and not Braver when he did the Up-B to the ledge.

[Jedi]

I think that was Climhazzard and not Braver when he did the Up-B to the ledge.

Yeah, its Climhazzard I have no idea why I thought Braver, I'm so silly sometimes.

[NoNameAtAll]

Yeah, its Climhazzard I have no idea why I thought Braver, I'm so silly sometimes.

It's no biggie. Even then, it might not be easy to see, but the sword uppercut made me think of it.

Braver's more like a helm splitter.

[Jedi]

It's no biggie. Even then, it might not be easy to see, but the sword uppercut made me think of it.

Braver's more like a helm splitter.

Yeah, if anything is like Braver its his fair which even that's a stretch.

[Verdande]

I think he's a pretty cool addition, I always thought one day he'll be in a Smash game but I thought they might hold off to after a FFVII remake came out. Well they waited until it was announced anyway!

[Aiddon]

Umm... I'm not quite sure you've looked through this thread if that's your response.

Outside of a few minor cameo appearances, Cloud and the Complication of Final Fantasy VII have not appeared on any Nintendo console.

If Final Fantasy was to be repped, Warrior of Light or a generic Black Mage would have made more sense due to Nintendo origins (yes, WoL is more of an OC based off of the FFI Warrior class, but is still inspired by the FFI Warrior class).

And what if Cloud was purely the publicity? Get the "hype" out first to pave the way for other things? I don't see how he would be the "appetizer" for much greater things.

1. I have; and that is the conclusion I've come to. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they are ignorant of the arguments being made. Also, first gen FF characters? Blech, might be amusing, but they literally had no personality by design. If you wanted to go with an actual CHARACTER, pick someone like Mog from FFVI.

2. Uh, because that's how hype logically works; start with something exciting, but ultimately small in the grand scheme of things for it to lead into BIGGER things.

[FrostyFireMage]

I don't get why people are complaining about Cloud being another sword-wielder.

Video-game protags that don't use swords are few and far between.

[Water Mage]

People are too used to Compilation (Outside of Last Order/Crisis Core) Cloud, which is why they throw the emo term at him.

When in FF7 he isn't really at all.

People are so quick to criticize Cloud's broody behavior in AV that they forget that Cloud actually has good reasons for his depression, considering what he went through in FF7.

Aerith's death wasn't the only bad thing that happened to him in FF7, for example, remember the reason why both Cloud and Tifa had to leave the party during a part of the game? After something like that, it's a wonder he even managed to fight again. (I'm actually kinda curious to see that scene in the remake, I remember seeing Cloud in that state unnerved me quite a bit.)

It's also important to remember that during AV, Cloud had Geostigma, a terminal disease with no know cure at the time.

Is it really suprising that Cloud was in depression in AV?

Maybe he brooded a little too much during the movie, but honestly, he had good reasons for that.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Water Mage

[FrostyFireMage]

Compared to Squall Cloud is positively sunny

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Compared to Squall Cloud is positively sunny

after reading this it makes me realize that we could've been stuck with squall instead of cloud.

i am alot more thankful now

[Robert Stewart]

I don't get why people are complaining about Cloud being another sword-wielder.

Video-game protags that don't use swords are few and far between.

Not just video game protags, either. "Heroes Prefer Swords" is a trope for a reason.

[Alex95]

I think most people are mad about Cloud being in simply because (wait for it!) he wasn't the character they wanted to see first! I know a lot of votes went to Cloud or some other Square Enix character, but I've seen a lot of people complain simply because "he wasn't my first choice" or "I wanted so-and-so instead!" Like Sakurai's just gonna release a character to satisfy one person's needs. While Cloud wasn't at the top of my list (that goes to Daisy or Isaac), I'm still incredibly happy that he's in! I was expecting a Square character to appear at some point, but certainly not as the first winner of ballot! That was surprising! (At least, I assume he's a winner from the ballot...)

And apologies if someone said something like this already. I didn't look through this entire topic. Who has time for that?

[The DanMan]

after reading this it makes me realize that we could've been stuck with squall instead of cloud.

i am alot more thankful now

To be fair, alot of Squall's "emo"-ness stems from lazy localization; more than a few instances of his trademark "Whatever" in the English localization replaced entire sentences and comments.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

People are so quick to criticize Cloud's broody behavior in AV that they forget that Cloud actually has good reasons for his depression, considering what he went through in FF7.

Aerith's death wasn't the only bad thing that happened to him in FF7, for example, remember the reason why both Cloud and Tifa had to leave the party during a part of the game? After something like that, it's a wonder he even managed to fight again. (I'm actually kinda curious to see that scene in the remake, I remember seeing Cloud in that state unnerved me quite a bit.)

It's also important to remember that during AV, Cloud had Geostigma, a terminal disease with no know cure at the time.

Is it really suprising that Cloud was in depression in AV?

Maybe he brooded a little too much during the movie, but honestly, he had good reasons for that.

That never felt like Cloud to me. Cloud would never treat his friends so badly, Cloud was not that silent and broody, and especially, Cloud did get over Aeris' death, hinted by the criptic ending.

It's like watching his character development get thrown away out of the window and now, ta-da, here's someone you don't actually know! Yes, he is your hero, I swear! Enjoy him and these DBZ fight scenes that totally fit FFVII. I swear this is not a Nomura wank fest!

I'm sorry, I know people like the spin offs, but I really despise them, they don't feel like FFVII, they feel like an uncanny valley fashion show with Kingdom Hearts action. And not to mention they love to turn Aeris into a pure, naive girl in these spin offs, when she probably is less naive and more emancipated than Tifa...

FFVII was a steampunk modern distopia, with a plot involving ecological catastrophe, horror moments, people playing God, dreams, inner turmoil, love, loss and friendship. Around it there also was quirkiness, bright colors and things popular in the 90s (snowboarding, the general aesthethic, the wall writing in Midgar, which the complications completely remove) to make the heavy plot lighter.

What Square-Enix has been tring to tell me the game was before playing it was over the top action, grey, dullness, pretty people talking criptic, an unlikable protagonist and no planet to be see. When I actually decided to play it instead of judging it as edgy shit like everyone loves to do, I saw a game that might not be perfect in any way, but that was filled with emotions, that conveyed both utmost joy and utmost sadness, and a message not many videogames want to talk about (the planet).

What can I say? I'm glad. I'm glad this Cloud seems to be much more inspired by the original dork who had to discover who he really was. I'm glad this Midgar is not that boring city is not the one I saw in those Complications. I might not support this abdundance of third parties, but at least I am happy I like this dude and that one of the few characters I call "hero" got in.

I'm not being very on-topic, sorry. But sigh, I hope Smash players won't misinterpret Cloud.

Confession:

I have a disc 1 save file before the ruins of the Acients :(

[Dai]

I recall reading somewhere that any material made with Cloud post FFVII Nomura had predominantly catered towards fanfic authors in terms of his personality. Of course, I could be wrong.

[Jedi]

I recall reading somewhere that any material made with Cloud post FFVII Nomura had predominantly catered towards fanfic authors in terms of his personality. Of course, I could be wrong.

I've also heard this, but i'm not sure.

That never felt like Cloud to me. Cloud would never treat his friends so badly, Cloud was not that silent and broody, and especially, Cloud did get over Aeris' death, hinted by the criptic ending.

It's like watching his character development get thrown away out of the window and now, ta-da, here's someone you don't actually know! Yes, he is your hero, I swear! Enjoy him and these DBZ fight scenes that totally fit FFVII. I swear this is not a Nomura wank fest!

I'm sorry, I know people like the spin offs, but I really despise them, they don't feel like FFVII, they feel like an uncanny valley fashion show with Kingdom Hearts action. And not to mention they love to turn Aeris into a pure, naive girl in these spin offs, when she probably is less naive and more emancipated than Tifa...

FFVII was a steampunk modern distopia, with a plot involving ecological catastrophe, horror moments, people playing God, dreams, inner turmoil, love, loss and friendship. Around it there also was quirkiness, bright colors and things popular in the 90s (snowboarding, the general aesthethic, the wall writing in Midgar, which the complications completely remove) to make the heavy plot lighter.

What Square-Enix has been tring to tell me the game was before playing it was over the top action, grey, dullness, pretty people talking criptic, an unlikable protagonist and no planet to be see. When I actually decided to play it instead of judging it as edgy shit like everyone loves to do, I saw a game that might not be perfect in any way, but that was filled with emotions, that conveyed both utmost joy and utmost sadness, and a message not many videogames want to talk about (the planet).

What can I say? I'm glad. I'm glad this Cloud seems to be much more inspired by the original dork who had to discover who he really was. I'm glad this Midgar is not that boring city is not the one I saw in those Complications. I might not support this abdundance of third parties, but at least I am happy I like this dude and that one of the few characters I call "hero" got in.

I'm not being very on-topic, sorry. But sigh, I hope Smash players won't misinterpret Cloud.

Confession:

I have a disc 1 save file before the ruins of the Acients :(

I also have a save file before that spot ^^. I'm an Aerith fanboy.

Also while Crisis Core did make Aerith more pure, it at least was more accurate to Cloud in terms of his past before the whole Zack & Cloud vs Sephiroth fight in the reactor. Last Order while short also had some cool things, despite the fact they cheapened Clouds victory over Sephiroth in the reactor.

Also while AC did some things really off, I did overall enjoy it (And I like Clouds design in it alot.) It's just... Uuuuuuuugh at other points.

[Aiddon]

I've also heard this, but i'm not sure.

I also have a save file before that spot ^^. I'm an Aerith fanboy.

Also while Crisis Core did make Aerith more pure, it at least was more accurate to Cloud in terms of his past before the whole Zack & Cloud vs Sephiroth fight in the reactor. Last Order while short also had some cool things, despite the fact they cheapened Clouds victory over Sephiroth in the reactor.

Also while AC did some things really off, I did overall enjoy it (And I like Clouds design in it alot.) It's just... Uuuuuuuugh at other points.

The Compilation as a whole was a wasted opportunity. AC is a technical marvel with amazingly creative action scenes, but unfortunately the plot is rote with a clumsy script and really doesn't get the characters of the series (seriously, even Cloud at his mopiest wasn't anywhere NEAR as sullen as he is in AC, they forget Aerith was actually a flirty, outgoing tomboy, and they never bring up how the Turks DROPPED A CITY ON THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, MURDERING THEM), Dirge of Cerberus was just AWFUL as a game and did nothing for the overarching plot, and Crisis Core had Genesis, one of the most irritating characters that SE has ever produced. All in all, just a mess of an idea that never lived up to its potential and unfortunately led to Square doing another projects like it with the Ivalice Alliance (which only produced ONE decent game in FF Tactics Advance 2) and FFXIII's iteration with two terrible sequels to an already insufferable game (and where the two games originally intended to be interconnected to it became a spinoff and the next numbered entry in the series respectively, as if SE had finally figured out XIII and Toriyama's beloved Lightning had overstayed their welcome). Not a good legacy to have.

[Busterman64]

People are so quick to criticize Cloud's broody behavior in AV that they forget that Cloud actually has good reasons for his depression, considering what he went through in FF7.

Aerith's death wasn't the only bad thing that happened to him in FF7, for example, remember the reason why both Cloud and Tifa had to leave the party during a part of the game? After something like that, it's a wonder he even managed to fight again. (I'm actually kinda curious to see that scene in the remake, I remember seeing Cloud in that state unnerved me quite a bit.)

It's also important to remember that during AV, Cloud had Geostigma, a terminal disease with no know cure at the time.

Is it really suprising that Cloud was in depression in AV?

Maybe he brooded a little too much during the movie, but honestly, he had good reasons for that.

I think most people are mad about Cloud being in simply because (wait for it!) he wasn't the character they wanted to see first! I know a lot of votes went to Cloud or some other Square Enix character, but I've seen a lot of people complain simply because "he wasn't my first choice" or "I wanted so-and-so instead!" Like Sakurai's just gonna release a character to satisfy one person's needs. While Cloud wasn't at the top of my list (that goes to Daisy or Isaac), I'm still incredibly happy that he's in! I was expecting a Square character to appear at some point, but certainly not as the first winner of ballot! That was surprising! (At least, I assume he's a winner from the ballot...)

And apologies if someone said something like this already. I didn't look through this entire topic. Who has time for that?

Cloud is one of those characters that every knows, but everyone doesn't really "know". If they did, they wouldn't be so much hate on Cloud. While I personally don't really "know" Cloud/ FFVII Cloud (I only really know Kingdom Hearts and KH2 Cloud), I know that people have said Advent.Children (never watched it) messed up his character (Kinda wanna say sorry for those who actually "know" Cloud). That and, in terms of Smash Bros, he isn't what they wanted. Both of those kinda increase the hate even more so than it probably would've. The big issue is that people kinda forget...this is mainly fanservice for those who want it. If you don't want it, ignore it, it's not that serious. However, people like to complain about this kind of crap alot. This isn't Goku or Shrek or something, so why so quick to hate so much! It's one thing to not really be fond of the idea, everyone's opinion is different, but it's another to complain constantly about this sort of thing! >:(

Edited November 19, 2015 by Busterman64

[Lord Raven]

The Compilation as a whole was a wasted opportunity. AC is a technical marvel with amazingly creative action scenes, but unfortunately the plot is rote with a clumsy script and really doesn't get the characters of the series (seriously, even Cloud at his mopiest wasn't anywhere NEAR as sullen as he is in AC, they forget Aerith was actually a flirty, outgoing tomboy, and they never bring up how the Turks DROPPED A CITY ON THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, MURDERING THEM), Dirge of Cerberus was just AWFUL as a game and did nothing for the overarching plot, and Crisis Core had Genesis, one of the most irritating characters that SE has ever produced. All in all, just a mess of an idea that never lived up to its potential and unfortunately led to Square doing another projects like it with the Ivalice Alliance (which only produced ONE decent game in FF Tactics Advance 2) and FFXIII's iteration with two terrible sequels to an already insufferable game (and where the two games originally intended to be interconnected to it became a spinoff and the next numbered entry in the series respectively, as if SE had finally figured out XIII and Toriyama's beloved Lightning had overstayed their welcome). Not a good legacy to have.

I haven't played LR: FF13 yet and I really haven't looked too much into FF13-2's story (cause it definitely lost me, but I admittedly didn't pay as much attention as I should have) but what was wrong with FF13?

I really don't get why people are so quick to jump on the FF13 hate train. You gotta at least acknowledge its merits, because it's definitely not a game for everyone - just like how everyone doesn't have the same views on which FF games are amazing and which aren't.

Furthermore, the Ivalice Alliance's only game that seemed to garner almost universal negative reviews was like Revenant Wings. Off the top of my head the main games are FF12, Vagrant Story, and FFT and I may be missing a few that were lesser known but people generally liked the Ivalice Alliance. Don't project your feelings onto others lol