TheAssassinMercenary Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The problem with war on terrorists is that it doesn't end. You aren't fighting a civilized country with borders; they won't surrender after too many losses. Essentially, you're fighting an idea. Unfortunately, there isn't really an alternate course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 you've completely dominated the topic of discussion in this thread for pages on end on absolutely no ground. the only argument you've essentially made is that something that has never happened and is so unlikely to happen that it surely never will is possible, and potentially dangerous, so we should cut the lifelines of thousands of innocent people escaping the horrible situation in their country (that your country helped create!), all while ignoring data and counterarguments completely because hey, you just want americans to be safe, right? So unlikely to happen that is surely never will, huh? I'm not ignoring facts. I've said quite a few times now that this situation is unlike any that's taken place before, so we can't look at past numbers and say "well, there's no way this will ever happen." If terrorists were to attempt to sneak in through Mexico, where would they settle? Where would they blend in to society without being noticed? Look at ISIS' last two attacks. Both the blown up Russian airliner and Paris attacks were attributed to the bombing runs being performed by Russia and France. Why do I think that ISIS really wants to damage American lives? In their English-language magazine, they refer to non-Russian airstrikes as the "U.S.-led Western Coalition." As for making it through the vetting process, I already brought up an example of the U.S. airstrike on the hospital. If the U.S. received what it thought was information credible enough to actually bomb a live hospital, you think that a few agencies couldn't be duped by members working together to get someone through the system? Anyway, I personally believe it comes down to what you find plausible. I find the threat to be credible enough to refuse entry to Syrian refugees. Why does that sentence them to death? If the refugee process is so much simpler in other countries, why would they not be able to enter there instead of the U.S.? I'm aware that my country essentially caused the current situation. That's why my country needs to help rectify it. My original question before all of this was, after you end the so-called "caliphate," how long does the propaganda continue? There's no way to tell until you actually go in and cut off the head. So, yeah, I guess I'm dominating conversation. I tend to react negatively when people call me names or insinuate I'm stupid because I have a different opinion about something. If what I'm saying is so stupid, ignoring me shouldn't be too hard, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) really? American still believe in this crap? it's not crap. the foundation of communist ideology is a global revolution of the proletariat: Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Proletarians of all countries, unite! So unlikely to happen that is surely never will, huh? you're more likely to get killed by a gangbanger or by a shooter on a college campus than by an IS terrorist to a certain point, it's helpful to engage stupid opinions because you can get someone to elaborate on them and reveal how stupid their opinions really are. Edited November 20, 2015 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Yeah, but some people don't care about psychotic shooters as long as they're not brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The last two IS attacks were by people sympathised with IS, not fighters that it sent across the borders. It lacks that kind of power presently. Is there any information on the guy with the Syrian passport? We know that most of the terrorists from the Paris attack were Belgian and French, so I wonder what's the deal behind that one. The ideal solution for this problem would be for the coalition to continue providing air support while the Iraqi and Syrian forces fight IS to a stalemate but the governments and media are doing a great job spreading fear and doubt in the civilians, especially in Europe. Honestly I'd be afraid of the reactions to terrorist attacks since they can escalate the situation quickly. So unfortunately the longer IS fights, the harder it is to dislodge them from Syria and Iraq (the Kurds are the best resistance against them but no one wants to support them.) This thread should be a good example of what I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) The last two IS attacks were by people sympathised with IS, not fighters that it sent across the borders. It lacks that kind of power presently. Is there any information on the guy with the Syrian passport? We know that most of the terrorists from the Paris attack were Belgian and French, so I wonder what's the deal behind that one. The ideal solution for this problem would be for the coalition to continue providing air support while the Iraqi and Syrian forces fight IS to a stalemate but the governments and media are doing a great job spreading fear and doubt in the civilians, especially in Europe. Honestly I'd be afraid of the reactions to terrorist attacks since they can escalate the situation quickly. So unfortunately the longer IS fights, the harder it is to dislodge them from Syria and Iraq (the Kurds are the best resistance against them but no one wants to support them.) This thread should be a good example of what I'm saying. I read in some article that a man was arrested in Serbi (or Siberi????) with same passport details with the one found in Paris. I think the first easy thing EU goverments can do is make better economic, give more jobs to those IS sympathised people, so they will be too busy to make money, rather than spending their free time trying to kill other white christian European with decent jobs. Edited November 20, 2015 by hanhnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) you're more likely to get killed by a gangbanger or by a shooter on a college campus than by an IS terroristGreat. And I have a much greater chance of dying in a car crash on any given day. Maybe I want to take as many precautions necessary to keep people safe here. Again, sorry to disappoint, but refusing refugees entry here doesn't just simply condemn them to death. There are other places they can go.If anyone would like to actually talk about the points I've raised and not insult me, I'll gladly respond. Otherwise, I'm finished posting here. I've made my views apparent, and I've tried to be as reasonable as possible when debating this point. I'm not here to ignore facts. In fact, the points I've brought up to support my views have been ignored. Another point I made previously that was ignored is that the U.S. has more problems than other countries taking in refugees. No western country is worse when it comes to veteran care and reintegration from society. If we can't even take care of the men and women who keep the country safe, why the hell are we taking in people from other countries and taking care of them? It's mind-boggling to me. Again, I believe the best way to remedy this situation is to take the fight to ISIS as soon as possible. We can take as many refugees as we want, but then what? We just keep dropping bombs, more refugees are "created," and the cycle continues. Given the airplane that was just blown up, we can only assume that IS has sympathizers that helped smuggle a bomb onto this plane in Egypt. In today's post-9/11 reality, how does that bode for the rest of the world? You think an airport would willingly hire a terrorist sympathizer? I'm gonna go with no. I'm going to repeat for the third or fourth time: we blew up a hospital based on false intelligence. But no, I bet that was an aberration and everything else coming out of Syria is real information we can trust. Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on this matter. Flame me, call me stupid, whatever floats your boat. Thanks to everyone who's been respectful while debating with me. I understand and support the fact that topics like this get people riled up, it's an insanely tough situation created by people who live and breathe pure evil. EDIT: just read a quote by the director of the FBI saying it is impossible to vet every single Syrian refugee. Do my concerns still make me stupid? I don't care at this point Edited November 20, 2015 by chococoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 A group of armed men attacked a hotel in Mali, 3 people were killed, 80 hostages were freed but another 40 were still in danger. Wow, what's with the world nowadays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Is there any information on the guy with the Syrian passport? We know that most of the terrorists from the Paris attack were Belgian and French, so I wonder what's the deal behind that one. Supposedly it's extremely easy to fake syrian passports these days. A lot of refugees from Afghanistan or Pakistan seem to be able to get their hands on one. The ideal solution for this problem would be for the coalition to continue providing air support while the Iraqi and Syrian forces fight IS to a stalemate Why would you want them to stalemate? I think the first easy thing EU goverments can do is make better economic, give more jobs to those IS sympathised people, so they will be too busy to make money, rather than spending their free time trying to kill other white christian European with decent jobs. I think it's a bit too late for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If anyone would like to actually talk about the points I've raised and not insult me, I'll gladly respond. Otherwise, I'm finished posting here. I've made my views apparent, and I've tried to be as reasonable as possible when debating this point. I'm not here to ignore facts. In fact, the points I've brought up to support my views have been ignored. lol no you haven't all that you've said is we can't be 100% absolutely positively certain that a syrian refugee can't be a terrorist in disguise therefore we shouldn't take in refugees because one of them might be a terrorist look why the fuck are we fixating on refugees when all of the paris terrorists were french nationals and french citizens can travel to the US without needing a visa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Why the fuck are we trusting a vetting process when the head of FBI said it's impossible to vet every refugee? Does nothing about that seem asinine to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Yeah good job taking down all those phantoms who have been arguing that vetting is absolutely full-proof. Edited November 20, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Why the fuck are we trusting a vetting process when the head of FBI said it's impossible to vet every refugee? Does nothing about that seem asinine to you? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/19/politifact-sheet-5-questions-about-syrian-refugees/ "No system is foolproof. If we really wanted a foolproof system, we would shut down immigration entirely," said David Martin, a University of Virginia professor who’s previously held posts at DHS and the State Department. "The alarm is way overblown." Refugees are subject to the highest level of security checks of any traveler category to the United States. So for ISIS to take advantage of the refugee program "makes no operational sense," said Anne Speckhard, a counterterrorism expert at Georgetown University."Given how easy it is to send a European extremist to the U.S. via Europe, why would an ISIS guy in Syria wait the three years it takes to get refugee status?" she said. no, it does not seem asinine to me at all. suppose that you were to divide the US population into two groups: one group containing syrian refugees and one group containing everyone else. suppose then that you were to select one person at random from each group. you are more likely to select a non-refugee domestic terrorist than a refugee domestic terrorist. the shocking conclusion here is that at least from the domestic terrorism point of view, accepting refugees actually makes this country safer. EDIT: i want to add that the politifact article states that canada has accepted 36,300 syrian refugees since 2013. we should be more concerned that canada is secretly letting terrorists into north america so that they can cross into the US. because the US is at the center of everything that happens in the world. but more seriously it's easier for a terrorist to illegally cross the border from mexico or canada into the US it's easier for a terrorist to legally immigrate from europe without needing a visa it's easier for a terrorist to be home-grown in the US via the influence of terrorist propaganda we're looking in the wrong fucking place and there is a cost in human lives associated with this brand of ignorance Edited November 20, 2015 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Why the fuck are we trusting a vetting process when the head of FBI said it's impossible to vet every refugee? Does nothing about that seem asinine to you? look why the fuck are we fixating on refugees when all of the paris terrorists were french nationals and french citizens can travel to the US without needing a visa why are you ignoring this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 here's an example of the current refugee process https://storify.com/germanrlopez/a-refugee-tells-her-story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 here's an example of the current refugee process https://storify.com/germanrlopez/a-refugee-tells-her-story ew depending on a single source's twitter account is a terrible piece of evidence. dondon's link has more than enough verified information to satisfy the what is a refugee question. sure yours appeals to the emotional aspect of the argument, but there isn't one here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 jfc what the hell are you going on about. i described the link as "an example" and never said it was anything more than one anecdote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) why are you ignoring this? he's indicated repeatedly that he doesn't care about fact checkers or the refugee process or anything strip away his civility and "reasonableness" and his skin-deep sympathy for refugees and muslim-americans and the message you're left with is basically "i'm scared as hell, i'm not going to let anything assuage my fears, and y'all should be scared too!!!" you're left with some real ugliness, in short. Edited November 20, 2015 by I.M. Gei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Topic title kind of needs an update (though I confess I'm probably the only one anal enough to care). The death toll has settled at around 130. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 A group of armed men attacked a hotel in Mali, 3 people were killed, 80 hostages were freed but another 40 were still in danger. Wow, what's with the world nowadays? Read this from top to bottom. Why the fuck are we trusting a vetting process when the head of FBI said it's impossible to vet every refugee? Does nothing about that seem asinine to you? I think it's asinine to deny a LOT of innocent people a second chance because of a possible terrorist. Like, this mindset is the "TERRORISTS WIN" mindset. Because you're afraid of them, despite the fact that they've done nothing to you personally. Me? I'll gladly welcome the refugees, because they're a long-term investment in cultural diversity, and IMO this is how we should be fighting the terrorists. Much as I'd like to sigh about this. . .many, MANY people over here share that mindset. I think it's horrible, because it means people are being suspected of being a terrorist just based upon where they came from. Topic title kind of needs an update (though I confess I'm probably the only one anal enough to care). The death toll has settled at around 130. Not sure if TC is still checking this topic. If it's not updated by the end of the weekend, my time, I'll fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/senator-john-mccains-whoops-moment-photographed-chilling-with-isis-chief-al-baghdadi-and-terrorist-muahmmad-noor/ Hey, I didn't know IS leaders was talking with US senator directly in person. The pictures at the bottom are fake, but pictures at the top look pretty real. Edited November 23, 2015 by hanhnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) That man isn't Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi but a member of the Northern Storm Brigade. Stop posting misinformation and internet rumors. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/world/middleeast/try-as-he-may-john-mccain-cant-shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html Edited November 23, 2015 by Naughx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) That is either a satirical blog or an illuminati blog. For the love of god, hanhnn, you would make Hearst jealous. Edited November 23, 2015 by blah2127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 it is a satirical blog--it says as much on the sidebar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 quick someone show him the onion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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