Magical CC Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) I warned them but they didnt care. I told them that the marching of 2 millions French for the Hebdo case will do nothing, that presidents and ministers holding hand and taking a picture will do nothing. I told them that the terrorists dont have time to watch that stupid thing and even if they saw the marching, the only thing they care is how many bombs does it take to kill 2 millions in a tight place like that. Now that France learned its lesson (again) and some European countries caught some more people who may relate to the terrorists or are terrorists themselves, I honestly dont give a damn anymore. The only way to stop this is EU send its united force to annihilate ISIS, one or two more bombing will do nothing. What I said in Hebdo topic proved to be right. The weak reaction of EU had no effect. Turkey and Russia airplane case are fresh new yet the whole world only cares about France case. Some European countries started controlling their border tighter and stopped importing immigrants and now there are a lot more people talk about nuclear bombing. Edited November 15, 2015 by Magical CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Even if it isn't the new refugees who are directly responsible, they're still going to get at least some of the blame. I wouldn't surprised if European countries increase their border security even more. It's unfortunate that a few radicals are probably going to ruin things for everyone else. I think that was the point, sad as it is. I think we can blame the French security force for poorly working. Charlie Hebdo always makes fun of other country tragedy, I wonder how they would make fun of their own tragedy this time. 'Just wait' Islamic State reveals it has smuggled THOUSANDS of extremists into Europe Whether it's true or not, hard time for refugees is coming. You're blaming the victim. . .again?! What the hell did the people in the restaurant/concert/elsewhere do to deserve being killed/injured/traumatized? What about the Muslim person in France who wants nothing more than to live his/her life out in peace, but who has to worry about more hate from the rest of the world because of this nonsense? --- Ahem. . .first off, the attacks sucked, and my heart goes out to those who lost their lives, those who lived through it, and those who will be affected by this indirectly. Second, this is a really tricky situation - ideally, we'd find whoever was behind it and turn them into ash, while murdering every last terrorist simultaneously, BUT that's not a realistic solution. As callous as this sounds, it's going to take a lot more than what just happened before a consensus is reached. By "a lot more", I mean a situation where certain countries will concede a lot more than they'd normally would in the name of cooperation and peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I'm pretty sure you want to see some atomic bombs blow up over there, man. @blah: for examples about Germany and Japan, I think they would not stay calm, and turned to the nowadays countries we know without 2 A-bombs blown up in their lands. Without a big scary bomb, no one would ever care to listen to US. Um, no, Germany never had an a bomb blown up in its lands. Both Germany and Japan learned from their defeats that aggression does not work. Also, without the A bombs Japan would have been even more devastated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteve Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Ted Cruz has apparently declared that as soon as he is in office he will declare war on Iran. Donald Trump has met his match. Iran? You mean the country that ISIS wants to destroy for being Shia rather than Sunni? I swear the requirement to run for the Republican nomination is a steady childhood diet of lead paint chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 · Hidden by eclipse, November 15, 2015 - By request Hidden by eclipse, November 15, 2015 - By request Iran? You mean the country that ISIS wants to destroy for being Shia rather than Sunni? I swear the requirement to run for the Republican nomination is a steady childhood diet of lead paint chips. Well there is that whole thing with that horrible deal we made with them, along with the fact that they threaten our and Israels existence on a constant basis, they are just as much a threat to us as ISIS, but this isn't about Iran. This is about the tragedy of Paris. Let's keep the political stuff in the presidential thread please. Link to comment
Yojinbo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Ted Cruz has apparently declared that as soon as he is in office he will declare war on Iran. Donald Trump has met his match. Good thing that dude has no relevant chance to actually become president. Bad thing that Hillary will likely do exactly the same once she's president. ...And here in France some are blamming Obama for his lack of initiatives... Could you specify a.) who do you mean by "some" and b.) what does "lack of initiatives" refer to? Lack of initiatives in regards to what? Military intervention in Syria? The only way to stop this is EU send its united force to annihilate ISIS, one or two more bombing will do nothing. Oh yeah? Send united force against ISIS? And then what? Fight alongside the russians while simultaneously sanctionizing them? Fight alongside the kurds while simultaneously being entirely dependent on Turkey's goodwill regarding the refugee crisis? It's naive to think that the EU has any saying on this matter. As usual, the EU is not in a position to take action without permission of their transatlantic patrons. Um, no, Germany never had an a bomb blown up in its lands. Both Germany and Japan learned from their defeats that aggression does not work. Also, without the A bombs Japan would have been even more devastated. Actually, Germany has left the path of non-aggresion and non-interventionism long ago. With the exception of the Iraq war Germany has been involved in all NATO operations since the Yugaslawia war in 1999 and they're indirectly involved with the whole Iraq/Syria disaster as well - a lot of the weapons that Germany exports to Saudi Arabia magically end up in the hands of ISIL and Al-Nusra all too soon. Of course, that is not entirely unintended from the german side but as you already know, war is a big business and of course the strategies that worked for the USA in WWII will work out for the germans in Syria and Iraq. After all, domestic economy and hegenomy within the EU is far more important than some 100.000 people's life in the middle east. [This also is relevant in the context of a point you made earlier - as long as this war is a huge success for the germans the EU will find an excuse to not increase their efforts to stop ISIL, even if it means an unforeseeable amount of refugees in the future]. [Regarding Japan things are also becoming more uncertain. There's an increasing level of tension between Japan and China ... Japan's non-interventionism and pacifism will soon be put to the test]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Iran? You mean the country that ISIS wants to destroy for being Shia rather than Sunni? I swear the requirement to run for the Republican nomination is a steady childhood diet of lead paint chips. No, it's their tactic. The Republicans need the attraction of the media. Speaking nonsense is the best way to get more attraction, ask Donald Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Um, no, Germany never had an a bomb blown up in its lands. Both Germany and Japan learned from their defeats that aggression does not work. Also, without the A bombs Japan would have been even more devastated. Hey, you forgot to mention that Germany already learned the same lesson when they lost in WWI, and it only made them want to start a new WW. You're blaming the victim. . .again?! What the hell did the people in the restaurant/concert/elsewhere do to deserve being killed/injured/traumatized? What about the Muslim person in France who wants nothing more than to live his/her life out in peace, but who has to worry about more hate from the rest of the world because of this nonsense? This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hey, you forgot to mention that Germany already learned the same lesson when they lost in WWI, and it only made them want to start a new WW. This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. There are some things secret services just cannot avoid. We can"t just put everyone suspected of radicalization behind the bars, right ? And the way you're defending some of these actions is seriously offensive. You're starting to get on my nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hey, you forgot to mention that Germany already learned the same lesson when they lost in WWI, and it only made them want to start a new WW. This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. Except Germany didn't start WWI, it had it forced upon it. All the countries involved had the war forced upon them. In any case, there is also the fact that the ToV had the goal of punishing Germany, while the treaty after WWII had the goal of reconciliation. The same goes for the Middle East; any peace treaty needs to have the goal of reconciliation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hey, you forgot to mention that Germany already learned the same lesson when they lost in WWI, and it only made them want to start a new WW. It's so much more complicated than that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxian Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hey, you forgot to mention that Germany already learned the same lesson when they lost in WWI, and it only made them want to start a new WW. This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. > So you imply Germany will instigate a new war because WW II happened ? Just so you know, the WW II existed because EU countries like France or UK were scared meddling with Hitler who has been elected to power, thanks to the crisis, people were desesperated, and bored of neutral parties. Unfortunately, the only one who promised them work and food is a psychopath who thought he was the descendant of a "perfect race came to invade he world and purge it", and actully believed in pseudo-scientific arguments on how to make a man perfect. Now the circumstances are different. The gap in mentality between Mrs. Merkel and Hitler is sufficient enough to show their difference in motives or strategies. We might not know if another Hitler is going to take the power but for now, comparing Germany from now and from before is nonsense to me. And also what blah said. >You make it sound like France attacked because it is fun. And you sounds like Germany, France and the whole EU are planning to invade others' country. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel like you despise EU and think we are striking a nation and not trying to eliminate terrorists who send armed people in our countries in order to bomb us from within a long time before the latest attacks. There is a difference between self-defense and attcking for fun. You should have known that terrorists have made several attacks in the West, and because they attacked, we intend to wipe them out. I'm not saying killing some of them was the rightthing to do, but I can say that they are in no right to talk about retaliation since they did the killing first. And you seem to think that way. Some fighting are endless because it's an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Look at the disaster betwen Israël and Palestine, but that's not the topic here. So if I follow your reasoning, they made 4 coordinated attacks on us, so they mess our country too so we are to hit them four times they did ? Surely you can think better than that. > And I might have misunderstood too but you seem to be waiting for an Atomic bomb to be send. Have you ever thought about the consequences on local population and the surrounding countries ? Not too mention the nuclear winter is upon us with all those atomic incidents (Tchernobyl, Fukushima and the 2 A bombs). And people like terrorists don't listen to the US, partly because they despise the fact the US "rule" everything thanks to their mighty A bomb (amongst other reasons). In fact they are waiting for the day it will blow, and that way, their goal will be reached. And I learned Japan was at the verge of surrending. The goal of that atomic bomb being blown was a test... So you shouldn't say Japan, is the way it is now thanks to US atomic bomb. If I sounded rude or misunderstood anything and said somthing completely off topic, I apologise... However if what I understood is true, I hope you will be the one facing reality. I warned them but they didnt care. I told them that the marching of 2 millions French for the Hebdo case will do nothing, that presidents and ministers holding hand and taking a picture will do nothing. I told them that the terrorists dont have time to watch that stupid thing and even if they saw the marching, the only thing they care is how many bombs does it take to kill 2 millions in a tight place like that. Now that France learned its lesson (again) and some European countries caught some more people who may relate to the terrorists or are terrorists themselves, I honestly dont give a damn anymore. The only way to stop this is EU send its united force to annihilate ISIS, one or two more bombing will do nothing. What I said in Hebdo topic proved to be right. The weak reaction of EU had no effect. Turkey and Russia airplane case are fresh new yet the whole world only cares about France case. Some European countries started controlling their border tighter and stopped importing immigrants and now there are a lot more people talk about nuclear bombing. I agree with a lot of things but EU sending forces to annihilate ISIS has been proven inefficient. Look at what happened yesterday. Sure we have either to reach an arrangement, either eradicate them from the core, but without knowing their numbers, armement, way of fighting, any many other factors, it's pretty impossible to annihilate them at the moment. If no one can come up with a better idea, then the vicious circle is never going to end. And I don't think terrorists will take pity on us after looking marches or looking all the profile pic changes on facebook, youtube and any social network. Sure they will die of laughing, but that's not what we seek. And I understand i'ts about showing support, but meanwhile, theyare preparing for another attack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. Somewhere, between the dawn of time and you, someone in your ancestry screwed someone else over. By your logic, if someone were to call in that wrong by killing you, it would be fine, because you deserved it, despite not knowing who in your ancestral line did the deed, among other things. Now, expand this to an entire country. Those who died/were injured in the attacks probably had fuck-all to do with foreign policy. Yet they somehow deserved this because of some wrong that France did. Any sympathy I might have had for those that were wronged by France's actions way back when went out the window when they decided to lash out at those who had nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Also, what did France have to do with any of the grievances of ISIS? France washed its hands of Syria following its withdrawal from the region in the wake of WWII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 This may sound cold and cruel, but you must face the truth. If a country wants to mess someone's home they must prepare for the moment their own home get mess. And it's just OK to handwave the trail of death and destruction that ISIS have left in Syria and Iraq. I'm guessing the Yazidis also deserved to die, right? Your moral compass is so fucked up that it makes me (who actually suggested genocide as the only real end to Islamic Radicalism) look like fucking Ghandi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxmonste Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yeah, I heard about this yesterday. Lots of my friends on Facebook changed their avatars to support the cause, including myself. I...don't even know what to say. Saying that this is shitty is an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Also, what did France have to do with any of the grievances of ISIS? France washed its hands of Syria following its withdrawal from the region in the wake of WWII. Our presence in the region to support the US (5 airstrikes this year, iirc), the fact that lots of their European members come from France, colonialism... This probably is also linked with the failure of the State to deal properly with the suburbs, basically leaving their citizens to rot. A lot of angst probably comes from that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That line of thought is illogical. Two wrongs does not make a right. And the real reason they're doing this is not for mere retribuition, but because they're batshit insane radicals with a deplorable agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That line of thought is illogical. Two wrongs does not make a right. And the real reason they're doing this is not for mere retribuition, but because they're batshit insane radicals with a deplorable agenda. But how did they end up following this despiteful interpretation of Islam ? I'm not talking about the Syrian and Irakis member of Isis, but about those originating from European countries. You probably don't know anything about France, so if you could refrain from speculating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That line of thought is illogical. ... not really. You're also wrong if you think retribution doesn't play a major role in this. Of course it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) But how did they end up following this despiteful interpretation of Islam ? I'm not talking about the Syrian and Irakis member of Isis, but about those originating from European countries. You probably don't know anything about France, so if you could refrain from speculating... You missed the point (that two wrongs do not make a right and thus their actions are in no way justifiable). I don't need any specific knowledge to know this, only basic logic, lol. I also think the attempt to try to find any reason to justify what they're doing futile. Their intents were already made clear, they want to establish a califate all over the world and smite us, evil infidels. That is enough to tell us about the kind of people we're dealing with, and shows that they are unegotiable and unreasonable. Edited November 15, 2015 by Rapier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 There's something I'm not getting, It has been less than an year since the Charlie incident, and like I said before there had been a bomb threat in the german soccer team's hotel. Didn't those two things should have left people, or the goverment, more careful, more alarmed? How come they were caught so off guard? It doesn't make sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 My bad, English is not my native language, as you may have guessed. And I don't think I've said in any form that their actions were justified, have I ? I was merely pointing out the circumstances that led to it. However, I was especially pointing out your second sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 My bad, English is not my native language, as you may have guessed. And I don't think I've said in any form that their actions were justified, have I ? I was merely pointing out the circumstances that led to it. However, I was especially pointing out your second sentence. Ok, my bad. They said it was a retaliation, alright. My point is that it is still unreasonable and unjustifiable in any way we look at it. Also, regardless if France had acted upon Syria and pissed them off, their intents to terrorize the western world were clear from the start, so whatever France did was not a necessary condition for the attacks, which were already imminent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 There's something I'm not getting, It has been less than an year since the Charlie incident, and like I said before there had been a bomb threat in the german soccer team's hotel. Didn't those two things should have left people, or the goverment, more careful, more alarmed? How come they were caught so off guard? It doesn't make sense... It's really hard to monitor every point of interest, from an airport terminal to a power plant to a busy tourist attraction. There's another fight that's entangled with this, and that's the one for privacy. This incident will most likely tip things in favor of those who want more government involvement in monitoring personal communications (among other things). So while the government might've been able to figure something out if it could've snooped more. . .is that the kind of world that's for the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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