Trinity Mafia - Game Over

[Clarinets]

Not really? That's happened before in previous games, buildup or no buildup.

Also, drop the "quitter" attitude. We are still in D1, barely out of RVS, and you're acting like your lynch is already a foregone conclusion. If you really don't want to play, then just request a sub because this kind of attitude screws over the other players more than anything else.

Ha, I didn't even read your response to his post. Oh well, good to know we're on the same page on this matter.

[Leona]

that was uncalled for

[Sunwoo]

So is your quitter attitude.

[SB.]

stay calm guys votals

(4) Roxas: Tiny Goddess, Omega, MancerNecro, Boron

(1) Rapier: Crysta

(1) Izhuark: BBM

(1) Clarinets: eclipse

(6) Not Voting: Everyone else

timer

subbing out 3rd/rapier who i dont think exist at all, willing to extend phase by 24 hours if a sub is found.

[SB.]

refa subs in for 3rd

going to sleep now, extending the day by 24 hours, still need one sub

[Refa]

I haven't been keeping up with the game.

[MancerNecro]

Neither have I cause I was busy. Finally got a little bit of time so here's a post:

##Unvote: Archer of Gold

Clarinets explains my point well that I had no idea that Roxas was Archer of Gold and that I was stacking votes at all.

I dislike Archer of Gold's vote on me because it seems like an overreaction to the votes on him. His defeatist attitude after that also irks me off but all that really feels like suboptimal playing rather than scummy. In particular, this post feels like genuine frustration to me.

@eclipse/Boron: What part about my reaction did you guys not like? I was honestly unaware that Archer of Gold was Roxas. I had initially thought that a persuader might have existed and I questioned as such. I'm not sure how you expected me to react at all? Both of you said that my reaction was too passive/mild in some way. Do you all expect me to make a case onto Archer of Gold because of his vote? His vote was not well substantiated, yes, but it read as null to me.

I can see eclipse's point regarding Clarinets' trinity fishing. I agree with both BBM and eclipse that we should not claim anything more about our tributes until there are flips or evidences that our trinities are actually of importance in the game. We should stick to plain old scum hunting in my opinion. I don't like how Clarinets also seemingly sidestepped eclipse's case on him. You think that eclipse's case and vote on you was not well-elaborated? Do you think that makes her scummy? Or is it town making a suboptimal case and vote? The ambiguity of your reply to eclipse feels like the type of "wait-and-see" attitude scum tends to display. It allows you to both push forward to vote eclipse or step back from her later on in the game depending on everyone else's reaction to her case and elaboration.

##Vote: ClarinetsandOboes

[MancerNecro]

When I say "tributes" in my earlier post, I mean "trinities". My phone's autocorrect messed me up.

[Refa]

I don't get what the point of trinities is. "Don't setupspec" says SB, before he immediately makes a setup that's just begging to be setupspecced. Well, screw you too. I'm in the same trinity as Roxas and Izhuark, and we're all Insomniacs.

Roxas' reaction to being bandwagoned isn't scummy, it just makes him lynchbait because it's easy for scum to jump onto. I also don't like how noone has made an effort to analyze this post (yes, people have talked about why it's bad play but nothing more). I'm sure it's demotivated town, but even if you don't agree with me, surely there'd be something people could get out of it.

I have a bad gut feeling about BBM's vote on Izhuark. Even for an RVS case, I can't see what he hopes to get out of it (the logic in his elaboration is good, it just didn't warrant a vote). Also it's poor form to ask someone else their opinion on something w/o giving your own.

This post says nothing and contradicts itself (he wouldn't mind claiming trinities but at the same time says that we should wait until more information is revealed on them). Also I don't buy Clarinets' somehow forgetting that the trinities are groups of shared roles. His reaction to Roxas seems incredibly forced, since it's coming from someone who subbed out of a game for being bored and has quit playing a game in the middle w/o subbing out.

I'm fine with Boron's initial vote on Archer (and her followups read as town pressuring over scum pressuring), but I don't like the blurb she added in about Mancer ("Mancer seems to be rather uncaring of Archer's vote on him, or at least has nothing to say about it … which interests me a bit but not enough to go pursue him at this point."). It reads as you noting something that happened without actually having any thoughts on it. Interesting how? Is it scummy or townie? Why?

##Vote: Clarinets

[Grace]

Lord Gaius replaces Flakier, effective immediately.

Do still require one (1) more sub. More PM's pls

[ZoesMad]

I swear I'm not masochistic.

[Refa]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention something else. I specifically requested to sub in for 3rd over Rapier because 3rd is apparently busy IRL whereas Rapier is busy posting in FE topics and completely ignoring this game (so basically the one w/the greater chance of being town). Not going to jump down LG's throat for that because it'd be really lame but I'm going to be watching your slot closely, dude.

[Refa]

After thinking about it some more, my issues with Clarinets are more because his play is bothering me over him being scummy (also the way I called your reaction to Roxas forced is probably unfair of me so sorry about that; those were my thoughts as I was reading it but it's like impossible to defend against and there's not really any scum intent there so it was stupid of me to bring that up).

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

[Clarinets]

This post says nothing and contradicts itself (he wouldn't mind claiming trinities but at the same time says that we should wait until more information is revealed on them). Also I don't buy Clarinets' somehow forgetting that the trinities are groups of shared roles. His reaction to Roxas seems incredibly forced, since it's coming from someone who almost* subbed out of a game for being bored and has quit playing a game in the middle w/o subbing out.

First of all, I did word that badly but I meant that I think we should claim trinities but it wouldn't be too helpful until we learned more about what the trinities do.

About my reaction to Roxas, that's a very good point. I never thought about that. I'm sorry, Roxas. I shouldn't have been so rude.

...Wait, weren't we mad about him because he just gave up the game and didn't even ask for a sub until we pressured him to? Either way though, I'm sorry that my words were so harsh Roxas. I didn't mean for you to get upset...

After thinking about it some more, my issues with Clarinets are more because his play is bothering me over him being scummy (also the way I called your reaction to Roxas forced is probably unfair of me so sorry about that; those were my thoughts as I was reading it but it's like impossible to defend against and there's not really any scum intent there so it was stupid of me to bring that up).

No, it's unfair of me to complain about someone else who doesn't want to play when I was like that 2/5 of the games (including this one) I've played so far.

[Crysta]

STUFF

lol@Flakier

##Unvote: Rapier/Lord Gaius

Izhuark hasn't answered BBM's question yet in spite of visiting multiple times which is odd. I was hoping for at least an elaboration even if it's just shrugging BBM off and saying he's busy or something. Not enough to warrant a vote but it'd be nice for him to pop in again, maybe even contribute, since he initially seemed eager to play. whar r u?

Clarinets... I'm not so sure he's fishing for information as much as he's filling up his posts with trinity speculation and I agree with Refa that some of his reactions seem forced (not so much versus Roxas though - #67 sticks out to me since #61 should have been enough to explain why the logic behind suspecting Mancer was silly, it was superfluous). My impression of Mancer's misvote are essentially the same, but because of it I'm getting slight 'scum-trying-to-be-active-and-look-helpful' vibes from his content so far. I don't like it, I'm not sure how well he can defend against it, but it's the best I've got so far.

Archer/Roxas immediately forking over Trinity intel pinged as town to me (#48) and sadly his unwillingness to stick around because he's getting RVS heat does, too.

I think that's all my surface thoughts for now. Sorry I got busy.

##Vote: Clarinets

[Refa]

I don't have anything important to say about your post Crysta (well, actually you bring up a good point about Izhuark in particular because if I'm not mistaken he was active in another game at the same time BBM posed that question) but I like your avatar!

Clarinets, what are your reads in general? Noone seems to have particularly detailed reads (including me) but you must have something.

[MancerNecro]

Clarinets needs to answer my questions. I don't like how he just pops in, responds to Refa's post and disappears after that without bothering to acknowledge that he has even read my post on him.

[Clarinets]

I can see eclipse's point regarding Clarinets' trinity fishing. I agree with both BBM and eclipse that we should not claim anything more about our tributes until there are flips or evidences that our trinities are actually of importance in the game. We should stick to plain old scum hunting in my opinion. I don't like how Clarinets also seemingly sidestepped eclipse's case on him. You think that eclipse's case and vote on you was not well-elaborated? Do you think that makes her scummy? Or is it town making a suboptimal case and vote? The ambiguity of your reply to eclipse feels like the type of "wait-and-see" attitude scum tends to display. It allows you to both push forward to vote eclipse or step back from her later on in the game depending on everyone else's reaction to her case and elaboration.

I'm confused on what eclipse's case is supposed to mean. The trinity I'm in has nothing to do with whether I'm Town or Mafia. I think it's more likely Town making a pretty bad case as opposed to scum, though.

Also, I wanted to hear her elaboration of her case before I made any decisions on whether she was Town or Mafia. I don't want to waste time with a pointless case.

STUFF

lol@Flakier

##Unvote: Rapier/Lord Gaius

Izhuark hasn't answered BBM's question yet in spite of visiting multiple times which is odd. I was hoping for at least an elaboration even if it's just shrugging BBM off and saying he's busy or something. Not enough to warrant a vote but it'd be nice for him to pop in again, maybe even contribute, since he initially seemed eager to play. whar r u?

Clarinets... I'm not so sure he's fishing for information as much as he's filling up his posts with trinity speculation and I agree with Refa that some of his reactions seem forced (not so much versus Roxas though - #67 sticks out to me since #61 should have been enough to explain why the logic behind suspecting Mancer was silly, it was superfluous). My impression of Mancer's misvote are essentially the same, but because of it I'm getting slight 'scum-trying-to-be-active-and-look-helpful' vibes from his content so far. I don't like it, I'm not sure how well he can defend against it, but it's the best I've got so far.

Archer/Roxas immediately forking over Trinity intel pinged as town to me (#48) and sadly his unwillingness to stick around because he's getting RVS heat does, too.

I think that's all my surface thoughts for now. Sorry I got busy.

##Vote: Clarinets

I assume you mean when I repeated my Town!Mancer case because everyone seemingly ignored it? I'm not sure but I believe this is the correct post.

About Archer, I agree that he seems Town, especially when he mentioned that if his lynching benefited the Town they should lynch him (although that doesn't really make sense for him to say, he wasn't thinking about the fact that he could be subbed out at the time)

I don't have anything important to say about your post Crysta (well, actually you bring up a good point about Izhuark in particular because if I'm not mistaken he was active in another game at the same time BBM posed that question) but I like your avatar!

Clarinets, what are your reads in general? Noone seems to have particularly detailed reads (including me) but you must have something.

Right now, I'm passively suspicious of Archer. I do think he seems Town, but the points used to make him look Town also make him seem like Mafia losing hope for survival. Looking at each side of that argument though, I'd say he's Null leaning Town since the Town argument makes more sense than the Mafia argument.

I'm going to go reread to see what else I can find, as that can NOT be all there is

[BBM]

@Refa- at the time I voted Izhuark it was the best I had and I didn't see a point in later lowering the quality of any reaction from him by saying "my vote is kind of meh". I asked Clarinets his opinion bc I was just trying to drum up activity and get some thoughts. I didn't give my opinion at the time bc tbh I hadn't really thought that much about it and also I didn't want him to go "yeah I agree with you" and I didn't give it later because, uh... I forgot.

Thinking about it more, I'm actually kind of bothered by it? It seems like a formulaic way of finding scum intent as opposed to looking at context. But he's probably town- his quitting reaction was lame but I don't think he would pull that purposely to WIFOM; he's not Manix.

Izhuark hasn't responded despite being around, which I guess is a thing but I don't remember Izhuark being the type to purposely lurk just because of suspicion? I think that it's probably null.

I don't get Mancer agreeing with both me and Eclipse, bc Eclipse was saying that trinity-fishing was scummy, and I was kind of saying the opposite? I don't find Mancer's case on Clarinets good, because sure Clarinets kind of sidestepped it originally by joking about it, but he did address it later by asking her to clarify. I feel like he's making it out to be a bigger deal than it is.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Mancer

would still like a response from Izhuark although at this point it's kind of useless.

I didn't really like Refa's Clarinets vote either but then he retracted it without any pressure so I think that it shows a town process of rethinking his stance on his own, as opposed to when people call him out for it.. The one Clarinets vote that I thought was okay was Crysta's, because I agree that (prior to his post just now) he was focusing overly on trinities.

I... don't get Clarinets's waffling on Roxas. He agrees that he seems town, but then says he's passively suspicious but then still leaning town...? This is me waffling now I guess. meh.

Clarinets, who's your biggest suspicion atm?

[BBM]

Mancer, what is your overall feeling about Roxas/Archer of Gold?

[Sunwoo]

I'm kind of busy, give me a bit to read and respond.

[eclipse]

not really sure what kind of reaction you guys are looking for from Mancer?

@eclipse- struggling to follow the logic in your vote. Why is not having trinity information anti-town?

My logic on trinities is this: the mafia on account of most likely having members in multiple trinities probably have more trinity information than anybody in the town. Odds are also good that they don't know everything though, so there's no point in giving them info right now for free, just like we don't massclaim on D1 either.

The lack of weekend activity is frustrating, since I'm going to have much less time to play mafia during the week, and particularly during the next few days as I have a big assignment due.

Has to do with stuff I'd rather not reveal. But knowing what I do about both my role and my trinity, it's weird.

I guess you're right about not claiming trinities. But really eclipse, what do you mean by your case against me? It's using the trinity I'm in to show I'm scum.

It feels like you're looking for information on the trinities themselves, in the form of speculation. Yet it was pretty early D1, so that's not the type of discussion that lynches scum. Second, what each role + trinity does shouldn't be public right now.

If I'm gonna be lynched anyways there's no point in getting a sub, but if I survive the day I'll request it.

. . .you're not even close to lynch, and you're thinking about it already. This is both a null tell and the wrong mindset to have. If you're resigned on dying, at least give us as many interactions and reads as possible before going down, so we can use your flip for the greater good.

@eclipse/Boron: What part about my reaction did you guys not like? I was honestly unaware that Archer of Gold was Roxas. I had initially thought that a persuader might have existed and I questioned as such. I'm not sure how you expected me to react at all? Both of you said that my reaction was too passive/mild in some way. Do you all expect me to make a case onto Archer of Gold because of his vote? His vote was not well substantiated, yes, but it read as null to me.

You didn't really respond to the vote itself - rather, you speculated that it was a host error. This tells me nothing of your thoughts on Roxas at the time. You said it's null now, but you have more information to go off of.

Refa what the fuck. You've told me WAY more about this setup than necessary. Also, your thoughts on my vote on Clarinets?

Izhuark hasn't responded despite being around, which I guess is a thing but I don't remember Izhuark being the type to purposely lurk just because of suspicion? I think that it's probably null.

That's a VERY minor scumread for me, because I sort-of remember something similar happening in Arkham (which might've happened after I died, so meh).

Also, BBM, what is your read on the woodwinds. . .and me?

Also, I wanted to hear her elaboration of her case before I made any decisions on whether she was Town or Mafia. I don't want to waste time with a pointless case.

First sentence: 'k, that's fair.

Second sentence: WAT. At this point, a case isn't pointless, because it strengthens associative reads.

---

Kinda irritated with Refa claiming for his entire group (NOTE TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF MY TRINITY, DO NOT DO THIS). Do want answers from BBM, and for like half the game to exist. If I didn't mention you, I'm filing your stuff away for later.

As I'm being bombarded with idiotic mod things, I'm gonna have to leave my vote where it is. I really want to see three reeds vibrate!

[BBM]

I didn't and don't agree with your Clarinets vote, but I don't think it was bad at the time you made it. However, your decision to keep your vote on him right now feels a little iffy bc I feel like you have more reason to find Mancer scummy. Why is Clarinets worse than Mancer? Is Refa's decision to claim his trinity scummy?

I myself am conflicted about Clarinets. I don't think the cases made against him have been good, other than Crysta's. I agree that his play has focused a little heavily on trinities, and I don't like his stance on Roxas. That being said I feel like his tone has been townie and I also think it's townie that he was the most active early on in a pretty dead game. I want to see him give more thoughts on people.

[Sunwoo]

So much to do, so much SF-related stuff. I'll make this brief because I really don't feel the need to go into analysis right now.

@Mancer: I don't expect you to make a case on Archer for his vote. But I do expect you to have some reaction to it. Do you think his reasons for the vote were weak? Do you think it's likely to be town or scum logic? Do you think there was anything weird in how he made the vote? I thought your reaction was passive because aside from assuming it was a host mistake you seemed to not care at all about a vote that was not RVS. Also, why is Clarinets worse than Archer of Gold right now?

@Refa: Mancer's reaction was noteworthy enough because from what I remember about Mancer, he had a tendency to get very jumpy about votes on him, sometimes to the point of overreaction. I thought it was odd that he didn't seem to care and didn't even try to look at Archer's reasoning for the vote. I wouldn't call it "scummy" or "townie", though, it just means that I'm going to want to pay closer attention to him to see what he does in the future.

As of now, I want Mancer to answer my question about Archer vs. Clarinets. Also I'm not sure what people's problems with Clarinets is, could someone explain to me in a nutshell what the case against him is?

Also, I don't know what good will come out of claiming or discussing trinities right now but I don't want to risk going down a path of role spec over this. I'd rather just hunt scum without worrying about the trinities.

[eclipse]

Sadly, BBM, I can't reveal much else. . .but there's a reason why I'm not voting Mancer. Yet.