Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Michelaar]

My first shiny was a random Panpour in Y

[Quintessence]

I'm now assuming these leaks as true. The concept art, and a couple of leaks point the same ideas.

Archer Rowlet seems the less bad!

[Magical Glace]

I don't believe the guy, tbh. This is one leak I won't believe until it's 100% confirmed, because of how horrid the Litten evo looks, and how unlikely it is that GF or Nintendo would let the concept art get out in the first place.

[Water Mage]

Also, if the story behind the evil team is true. . .blargh. I play video games so I don't have to think about reality.

To be fair, it wouldn't the first time Pokemon did this.

The theme behind Black&White and Lysandre's motivations are quite realistic.

[Ebony]

To be fair, it wouldn't the first time Pokemon did this.

The theme behind Black&White and Lysandre's motivations are quite realistic.

I think the trend of slowly getting more realistic started with B/W, yes.

If those final evolutions are real, then I'm for sure literally never picking Litten. Its basic form didn't look aesthetically appealing to me, and the final form even less.

Agreed... except I did like the first form, but seeing this kinda turned me off. I like the idea of it being based off of a Heel but... yeesh. If I wanted a fighting and fire based Pokemon I'll go back to Sinnoh and choose Infernape.

[Samias]

Team Rocket was actually a fairly realistic villainous team. No real lofty goals, just the pursuit of power and money. It wasn't until the anime where Giovanni wanted Mewtwo though it can be assumed that's why Rocket was after the Master Ball. The only unrealistic part was the team getting dismantled by kids.

Honestly for the setting GF is going for now, a villanous team trying to bulldoze over natural beauty in favour of tourism seems like a safe bet. It can mostly be agreed that people should be enjoying natural environments instead of trying to shape everything into a resort, especially in a delicate remote island ecosystem.

That said if those are actually the final starters I won't be that torn up. I think Popplio will be a safe bet for me to pick up after all because I think the Siren-esque final form is really cool and different. Maybe Popplio won't be 87.5% male? ...Who am I kidding, Braixen was kinda girly but was still mostly male...

[Water Mage]

That said if those are actually the final starters I won't be that torn up. I think Popplio will be a safe bet for me to pick up after all because I think the Siren-esque final form is really cool and different. Maybe Popplio won't be 87.5% male? ...Who am I kidding, Braixen was kinda girly but was still mostly male...

I wouldn't mind more feminine-looking starters.

The only ones I can think of are the Chikorita line, the Fennekin line and maaaaybe the Snivy line.

[Anacybele]

Why are people calling that Popplio evolution a siren? Sirens are supposed to be evil and seductive creatures! That Popplio evolution looks like a lovely performing mermaid, not an evil creature! :( (though if it ends up getting a Pokedex entry saying it does the evil seductive stuff, well... That's just freaky. It wouldn't be the first time we've had really creepy dex entires though, sadly)

Anyway, it's looking more and more like these are real, so it's looking more and more like my vote will change to Popplio and make this a rare occurrence that I pick the Water starter!

Edited July 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Nym]

I need proofs because I don't call this legit at all, I'm sure any games compagnies would prevent something like that to happen.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Nym

[Konnor97]

Am I the one who likes that Litten's potential final evo? It looks really cool and it's my favorite fire starter final evo design. Rowlet's is actually my least favorite. Something about it just puts me off. Popplio's is alright, and it works in a kind of "ugly duckling" way.

[Leif]

Am I the one who likes that Litten's potential final evo? It looks really cool and it's my favorite fire starter final evo design. Rowlet's is actually my least favorite. Something about it just puts me off. Popplio's is alright, and it works in a kind of "ugly duckling" way.

Nope, I really like Litten's final evolution so, if it's real, it will definitely be my starter!

I really think that the leaked final starter evolutions are real. I saw a youtube video this morning that gave credibility to the leaked image. They said that the leaked image (that's actually still on this thread) has been disappearing on other sites. Again, this all could be fake, but those designs look pretty legit.

If you look at Litten's final evolution concept art page, you'll see Ash and the gang hanging around the pokemon while it sleeps. It's a small detail that shows how the Pokemon will function not only in the game, but in the Anime as well.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Leif

[Vashiane]

Why are people calling that Popplio evolution a siren? Sirens are supposed to be evil and seductive creatures! That Popplio evolution looks like a lovely performing mermaid, not an evil creature! :( (though if it ends up getting a Pokedex entry saying it does the evil seductive stuff, well... That's just freaky. It wouldn't be the first time we've had really creepy dex entires though, sadly)

Anyway, it's looking more and more like these are real, so it's looking more and more like my vote will change to Popplio and make this a rare occurrence that I pick the Water starter!

My dear. I hate to be the one to put a cork in your idea that mermaids are lovely creatures, but... I'm going to.

One, while it's common for people to use siren and mermaid interchangeably, sirens is also a term for an entirely different creature. Sirens come from Greek mythology, but Greek sirens are usually winged creatures, with sometimes more bird-like features, and lured sailors to their death with the songs played on their harps and their own singing. Sirens are sometimes depicted as aquatic creatures, but frankly, I prefer to use the term mermaid for the aquatic ones.

(Not to mention that a seal isn't a fish, it's a mammal. If there's a creature that corresponds with a seal it would be the Scottish selkie, a mythical seal that sheds its skin once on land and takes the appearance of a human.)

Now.

Mermaids are, essentially, a subclass of fairies. Mermaids tend to have the same skewed moral compass as fey, committing what can be considered heinous acts that they don't perceive as harmful. They're just having fun, in their eyes, and they're not trying to be awful, but because a fey's definition of bad behavior is far more lenient as ours, what's harmless fun to them is not for their poor put-upon victim.

Need an example? I've got one!

Now, listen to the mermaids' reasoning for trying to tug Wendy into the water and splash her relentlessly. "We were only having fun." "We were just trying to drown her." To them, drowning a human girl is a game. and they're offended that Wendy couldn't take the joke and tried to strike them. And this explains Peter's actions too - he has more in common with the mermaids than he does Wendy, so this is amusing to him while Wendy is genuinely angry and distressed (like most of us humans would be in that situation).

But okay, that's not malice because the mermaids aren't capable of realizing they're causing harm. In that case. There's another, also from Disney, that I'm going to link now.

There's no way to sugarcoat this (granted, the movie tries to by painting one of the mermaids are not being violent, but she doesn't appear until AFTER this scene). Not only are the mermaids seeing the men as nothing but prey, they actively use seduction and deception as a weapon to achieve these goals. The blonde mermaid approached the sailor shyly, asked him if he was "her jolly sailor bold", and began to sing to him. Her voice carried throughout the water and summoned her fellow mermaids. They all gather around the boat, waiting for the blonde to finish her seduction of the pirate, drag him underwater, and then reveal her true colors.

And you know how I said prey? Yes, prey. Unfortunately the only video I can find of it is incredibly blurry, but a few moments after this ends, a sailor is dragged down to the depths by multiple mermaids, until they're nothing more than specks. And then -- there's an explosion of blood blooming in the spot where the man once was.

And I know these are only two examples, but these examples I felt worked best because -- these are both Disney films. Pirates of the Caribbean is a Disney film. And Peter Pan is a part of the Animated Canon. I know Disney's known for making fairy tales kid-friendly, and well, Pirates of the Caribbean isn't always the most kid-friendly franchise, BUT these are both very clear examples of mermaids not being soft, gentle creatures.

Which frankly extends to fairies as a whole you don't want me to grab the receipts on Tinkerbell but, I had to put my two cents in on that aspect. Because yes, sure, mermaids CAN be nice, but there's a probability in the word "can". They can also be, incredibly vicious, so assuming that Popplio's design is based off of a mermaid because it looks soft and pretty is -- well. Gorebyss is pretty, by the way. You know, the fish that sucks out its prey's insides?

[Anacybele]

Well, we do need to remember that very good leaks have happened that ended up fooling a lot of people. Remember the supposed Rayman leak for Smash? Yeah...

There is still a chance that this is actually fake, though I would still SO love that mermaid Popplio evo. And now that I think about it, the Litten final form isn't really as terrible as I said before. I really just don't like that it isn't quadrupedal and it annoyed me a lot. Because again, when will we get a quadrupedal Fire starter that stays that way throughout evolution?

[Hinya]

Man those leaks are pretty nice. Overall I prefer Rowlett's design even though I'm quite fond of Popplio's one.

On an another topic though, I would like to have you guys's opinion: Do you think that the XY rivals are as bad as a lot of people say? Do you think that Blue or Silver was the best rival?

[Quintessence]

I think it was because of newer movesets, newer pokemon and items like Exp Share.

[Vashiane]

Man those leaks are pretty nice. Overall I prefer Rowlett's design even though I'm quite fond of Popplio's one.

On an another topic though, I would like to have you guys's opinion: Do you think that the XY rivals are as bad as a lot of people say? Do you think that Blue or Silver was the best rival?

No. I mean, no they're not really stand-out characters and I wish you'd actually meet with them MORE to truly establish a bond but -- I don't think they're bad. They're all different in how they want to go about their journey (with a pretty nice nod to meta) and no, not all of them are going for glory or fame and that's fine.

I mean, I actually wished they showed up more often, maybe they could be characterized with some hidden depths that way. But as they are, they do their job efficiently enough and they provide some cute and lighthearted fun moments.

As for best rival... haven't really played Platinum as much as I've watched someone else do it, but man I'm partial to Barry.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Vashiane

[Magical Glace]

The best rivals were Cheren and Bianca, and Hugh to a lesser extent. Both grow and come to terms with what they really want and what they should try to become.

The XY rivals are... eh, and Tierno is outright bad, his only character trait is he like to dance and contributes nothing despite being a rival. Trevor and Serena/Calem are probably the better ones for XY, but they don't really hold a candle to Cheren and Bianca.

[Anacybele]

Oh, and Vashiane (you posted right when I did, so I couldn't respond earlier), I don't like being called "dear" so can you not do that? Also, I already knew pretty much everything you put in your post. I'm not uninformed.

I'm aware of those portrayals of mermaids, and as far as I know, they're the only ones that don't portray them in a positive light. What about the actual story of The Little Mermaid? I saw no bad mermaids in that one (Triton isn't even bad, he only hated humans because they accidentally killed his wife). And Disney isn't always accurate on top of that. They made John Smith a young hot guy and fall in love with Pocahontas instead of making him an older bearded man that's just her friend.

AND, I said "performing" mermaid. Not just mermaid. Meaning I think that Popplio's final evo is supposed to be more like how Misty dressed up as a mermaid for one of her gym's water shows in the anime. Did you see the one pose it was drawn it? It looked like it had just ended a performance. This doesn't scream seductive mermaid to me.

Although, I do think what you said pretty much confirms that if these leaks are real, Popplio is indeed evolving into Water/Fairy! ^^

Edited July 11, 2016 by Anacybele

[Samias]

The Little Mermaid is kind of an optimistic portrayal of mermaids, but the original story is actually a lot worse. While the mermaid does indeed love the prince and loses her voice and grows human legs that put her in agonizing pain from the sea witch, the prince doesn't realize she rescued him and marries another. The mermaid's sisters bring a knife and want her to kill the prince so the mermaid won't turn to sea foam and die. In the end the mermaid won't kill the prince and so she turns to foam. Not as bad as it could be but the fact that her sisters are willing to murder the human is kind of more in line with how mermaids at the time were all perceived.

[Djing]

If it the leak is real, I call dibs on Robin Hoot.

[Vashiane]

Oh, and Vashiane (you posted right when I did, so I couldn't respond earlier), I don't like being called "dear" so can you not do that? Also, I already knew pretty much everything you put in your post. I'm not uninformed.

I'm aware of those portrayals of mermaids, and as far as I know, they're the only ones that don't portray them in a positive light. What about the actual story of The Little Mermaid? I saw no bad mermaids in that one (Triton isn't even bad, he only hated humans because they accidentally killed his wife). And Disney isn't always accurate on top of that. They made John Smith a young hot guy and fall in love with Pocahontas instead of making him an older bearded man that's just her friend.

AND, I said "performing" mermaid. Not just mermaid. Meaning I think that Popplio's final evo is supposed to be more like how Misty dressed up as a mermaid for one of her gym's water shows in the anime. Did you see the one pose it was drawn it? It looked like it had just ended a performance. This doesn't scream seductive mermaid to me.

Although, I do think what you said pretty much confirms that if these leaks are real, Popplio is indeed evolving into Water/Fairy! ^^

Sorry about that, it's colloquial.

But there's... no such thing as a performing mermaid. Mermaids don't... perform really, and when they do it's usually to get something they want. I mean, yes, mermaids can portrayed as nice, and yes fey in general can be portrayed as nice but the keyword is "can". The only example of performing mermaids I can think of is The Little Mermaid, which isn't an accurate portrayal of the original story anyway (see Samias' post).

Yes, Disney softening the original fairy-tales already existed by the time Peter Pan came out (Cinderella for example), but the myths and lore surrounding mermaids goes back to the times of Ancient Greece and Rome. Mermaids weren't really portrayed as sweet, soft creatures until... actually. Recently. I'd say 20th century, but I'd have to go digging around the internet for an actual date.

I mean, I'm not counting the leaks as real, because I'm not going to believe a thing unless it comes out of Nintendo's mouth (plus in my opinion I think it's kind of a dick move to leak stuff anyway but...) but if it is Water/Fairy, then that's nice. Actually I think selkies are usually said to be nice creatures so

[Vashiane]

Shoot, ignore this, it double posted for some weird reason. >_<

Edited July 11, 2016 by Vashiane

[The DanMan]

Though there's definitely some recurring threads in these leaks, I'm not calling anything confirmed yet.

[Anacybele]

I know real mermaids don't perform! Geez. xP I'm saying that I think this final Popplio form is supposed to combine mermaid features with female performer features. Remember the theory about the starters being based off of performers, mainly circus ones? With Popplio being the circus sea lion or seal, Rowlet being the ring master with his little leafy bowtie, and Litten being the show tiger or lion? My idea here goes hand-in-hand with this.

[Refa]

I hope the new Pokemon games don't run at 20FPS like XY/ORAS did. That would be unfortunate.

I know real mermaids don't perform!

real mermaids don't perform!

real mermaids

You might be a little out of touch with reality, there.