Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Quintessence]

Well, you know that Pikachu can learn it in Pokemon Yellow ~

[Water Mage]

Having played the demo, I do wonder what's the meaning of the Kanto reference in the game? Why does the player move from Kanto to Alola? What is the purpose of it? I may understand that Alola forms have to do with how Kanto Pokemon react to the Alola environment, but, are these regions near each other? Like, beyond GF's Gen I love, what's the reasoning of the Kanto reference?

I don't think it has any deep meaning, remember that it was the same thing in Ruby/Sapphire with the player's family moving from Johto.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

None, really. Just "It's the 20th anniversary? Better do more genwunner pandering".

That's a snide way of putting it, but it's them trying to cash in on nostalgia + Go + Masuda's own clear bias.

Again. I think for the fact that he moved from Kanto is less so of the fact that they're trying to pander, and again, they're trying to celebrate a 20th anniversary reflecting the fact that they're from Kanto. Why do you have to look at it in the most negative way possible? I noticed you do this with almost everything.

Edit: I get being annoyed with the Alolan forms for being Kanto only. I can see why you would call thar pandering. But do you seriously think a minor detail, such as where the player moved from, is big enough of a deal to complain more about "oh look. More Genwunner pandering"

Edited October 24, 2016 by DarkDestr0yer61

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I wasn't really bothered by that minor detail, though I still would've preferred the trainer be from somewhere else. xP Like Sinnoh.

I caught an Aipom at another honey tree in Diamond, btw, yayz. That's two different honey tree Pokemon out of the way. I'd like to catch all the Sinnoh Pokemon since I never did before for some reason. I really wish I had since it's my favorite region.

[The DanMan]

Again. I think for the fact that he moved from Kanto is less so of the fact that they're trying to pander, and again, they're trying to celebrate a 20th anniversary reflecting the fact that they're from Kanto. Why do you have to look at it in the most negative way possible? I noticed you do this with almost everything.

Edit: I get being annoyed with the Alolan forms for being Kanto only. I can see why you would call thar pandering. But do you seriously think a minor detail, such as where the player moved from, is big enough of a deal to complain more about "oh look. More Genwunner pandering"

I wasn't a fan of the pandering in X and Y, and here it feels just as- if not more -blatant. Sure, they may be minor details, but when it's a lot of minor details, it adds up.

They're putting too much of a focus on Gen 1 at the expense of other generations. If I say much more, I break my own rules concerning the discussion of datamine info.

Also, I've done nothing but praise the changes made to the core gameplay and I like every single new 'mon (going so far as to justify luchalitten to many)- while the Gen 1 focus majorly irks me, that's my only issue.

I'm something of a critical person, but I'm not critical because I hate something- I'm critical of what I like as well. And I've defended a few things in the datamine thread- I'm not really irked anymore about UB's being catchable, and I'm perfectly fine with the amount of new Pokemon and understand why it may be so.

It's just that focusing on Gen 1- while a business smart choice -feels like they're stuck in the past and makes the games themselves feel much staler.

[Anacybele]

Blah, the next two honey trees I checked had Wurmple. Just my luck after finding a Cherubi and Aipom the first couple times, eh? :P

I also just caught a Finneon for my team, and I'll take its Quirky nature and Storm Drain. It's an uncommon catch, and I don't want to waste time running off from Magikarp and going to my PC since my party is full thanks to Bidoof and a Happiny egg I got in Hearthome City. I need to hatch that thing so I can swap it out for Finneon.

And I agree with DanMan, it feels like with all the gen 1 pandering, they're stuck in the past and don't think anything in the future will ever matter nearly as much, when certainly other gens are just as important or innovative or whatever. Pokemon keeps selling because each set of games keeps being great. It's not because of gen 1, hell some of those gen 1 people have "outgrown" the series too since they're adults with their own kids and jobs right now. How do they have as much time to play when they have kids to care for and jobs to hold? The kids have more time to play, and they wouldn't remember gen 1 since they weren't born yet. It's the logic I stated earlier in the thread.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Anacybele

[Acacia Sgt]

Well actually, from what I see in some articles, Pokémon has a significant adult/older fanbase than just being mostly kids.

Like some articles a few time back talked about. I can try to find more if need to that talk about it.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Acacia Sgt

[Water Mage]

And I agree with DanMan, it feels like with all the gen 1 pandering, they're stuck in the past and don't think anything in the future will ever matter nearly as much, when certainly other gens are just as important or innovative or whatever. Pokemon keeps selling because each set of games keeps being great. It's not because of gen 1, hell some of those gen 1 people have "outgrown" the series too since they're adults with their own kids and jobs right now. How do they have as much time to play when they have kids to care for and jobs to hold? The kids have more time to play, and they wouldn't remember gen 1 since they weren't born yet. It's the logic I stated earlier in the thread.

I have to disagree. Gen 1 still sells more than others by a lot. It's the Generation that everyone recognizes. Both kids and adults know Gen 1 Pokemon. They have been in every single game, so people will recognize them regardless of what Generation they started. And even the adults who doesn't play Pokemon anymore recognizes them, which can influence them to buy Pokemon products to their kids. Also, back in the late 90s, the Pokemon fever was at it's strongest, and it was only Gen 1 Pokemon back then, so even those who never played Pokemon in their life, people who barely know anything about Pokemon at all and even people who dislike Pokemon still recognizes Gen 1 Pokemon.

All of these facts makes them very easily marketable.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Water Mage

[Anacybele]

I have to disagree. Gen 1 still sells more than others by a lot. It's the Generation that everyone recognizes. Both kids and adults know Gen 1 Pokemon. They have been in every single game, so people will recognize them regardless of what Generation they started. And even the adults who doesn't play Pokemon anymore recognizes them, which can influence them to buy Pokemon products to their kids. Also, back in the late 90s, the Pokemon fever was at it's strongest, and it was only Gen 1 Pokemon back then, so even those who never played Pokemon in their life, people who barely know anything about Pokemon at all and even people who dislike Pokemon still recognizes Gen 1 Pokemon.

All of these facts makes them very easily marketable.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I doubt that a lot of kids know gen 1 Pokemon well. I've had them ask me "where is this Pokemon from?" or "Who is this Pokemon again?" and such questions when looking at them in Go or in Pokemon cards. They are not as recognizable or as marketable as GameFreak thinks.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Anacybele

[Quintessence]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I doubt that a lot of kids know gen 1 Pokemon well. I've had them ask me "where is this Pokemon from?" or "Who is this Pokemon again?" and such questions when looking at them in Go or in Pokemon cards. They are not as recognizable or as marketable as GameFreak thinks.

Acacia posted some articles showing Pokemon's main public are people between 19-24 years old, which means kids aren't. Even then, who's Pokemon's mascot? What are the set of pokemon in Pokemon Go? Even kids have the strongest reference in Smash, media, etc. So yes, Gen I is the most marketable among all of them.

[Anacybele]

Acacia posted some articles showing Pokemon's main public are people between 19-24 years old, which means kids aren't. Even then, who's Pokemon's mascot? What are the set of pokemon in Pokemon Go? Even kids have the strongest reference in Smash, media, etc. So yes, Gen I is the most marketable among all of them.

Uh, I obviously meant gen 1 Pokemon that AREN'T Pikachu, Charizard, or Mewtwo. Anyone knows they're actually very recognizable. But the others, not so much. Also, if Pokemon's main fanbase was between those ages, why are GameFreak still mainly aiming towards children by making the games extremely easy? Pokemon's fanbase is still majorly children, otherwise the difficulty would be raised to favor the older, more experienced fans.

Also, I attended a GO event in my town, and while there were a lot of older players, a majority of them were kids accompanied by their parents.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Anacybele

[Quintessence]

I don't think difficulty is restricted to what age the game is aimed at. Pokemon games aren't designed to be hardcore because it is not the essence of the game.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Quintessence

[The DanMan]

Acacia posted some articles showing Pokemon's main public are people between 19-24 years old, which means kids aren't. Even then, who's Pokemon's mascot? What are the set of pokemon in Pokemon Go? Even kids have the strongest reference in Smash, media, etc. So yes, Gen I is the most marketable among all of them.

I'm fine with it in moderation- it's just that now it seems like Generation 1 is getting too much emphasis for a "new game", which hasn't been helped by it having been a focus already for the past couple years.

I could rant about Smash representation, but I won't. Honestly, I'm kinda beating a dead horse at this point (especially since my main source of frustration is within the datamine, though some of you may be able to guess what it is).

[Anacybele]

I don't think difficulty is restricted to what age the game is aimed at. Pokemon games aren't designed to be hardcore because it is not the essence of the game.

I think it is though, because ever since DP, the games have gotten easier...and easier...and easier. And what happened with DP? Parents complained that their kids found it too hard and they couldn't finish it (which was valid, but the difficulty didn't need to keep sinking after Platinum nerfed a few things).

[Magical Glace]

Yeah the thing about the Gen 1 pandering is it's kinda over the top compared to Gen IV or V, which honestly get barely anything these days.

The Alola forms are the worst of it. Yeah, you can have some gen 1's to market to gen 1 fans, that's fine. What's not fine, in my eyes, is only using them to pander to that group. If they were just Gen IV and V, it would still be not fine.

In other words what gets me is not the pandering itself but more the fact it's overshadowing other gens.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

I wasn't a fan of the pandering in X and Y, and here it feels just as- if not more -blatant. Sure, they may be minor details, but when it's a lot of minor details, it adds up.

They're putting too much of a focus on Gen 1 at the expense of other generations. If I say much more, I break my own rules concerning the discussion of datamine info.

I disagree about the blatantcy thing for pandering. Sure, only gen 1 has Alolan forms, but in X&Y, half of the kalos dex is Kanto pokemon. There is literally a quest to get a pokeflute to wake up Snorlax. You even get a gen 1 Starter at the beginning of the game. Not to mention the 3 legendary birds and Mewtwo.

As for the minor details thing, again, I understand getting annoyed by the Alolan forms Gen 1 only. That is a big detail. Getting annoyed and complaining about the fact that Sun is from Kanto is nitpicking. Nitpicking isn't a good way of analyzing something. Because it just sounds like you are looking for an excuse to say "Gen 1 pandering", regardless on whether or not that is your excuse.

It's just that focusing on Gen 1- while a business smart choice -feels like they're stuck in the past and makes the games themselves feel much staler

As far as games being stale, I don't blame gen 1 for that. I felt that in gen 3 and 4 because you are yet again, a trainer who is going around collecting 8 badges and fighting an evil team. I actually applaud gen 5 for trying to have a story and build up everything regarding N. Also you don't even fight the champion the first time through. That was a choice that isn't stale. In fact, since the entire layout of SuMo seem to be different from gen 1 through 6, I would say it is the least stale (in theory), regardless of the fact that there are a lot of references to Gen 1.... I also like the fact that there are bringing back something from gen 6 that should have been fleshed out in gen 6 (Zygarde), and including a reference to the anime (Ash-Greninja)

[The DanMan]

I disagree about the blatantcy thing for pandering. Sure, only gen 1 has Alolan forms, but in X&Y, half of the kalos dex is Kanto pokemon. There is literally a quest to get a pokeflute to wake up Snorlax. You even get a gen 1 Starter at the beginning of the game. Not to mention the 3 legendary birds and Mewtwo.

As for the minor details thing, again, I understand getting annoyed by the Alolan forms Gen 1 only. That is a big detail. Getting annoyed and complaining about the fact that Sun is from Kanto is nitpicking. Nitpicking isn't a good way of analyzing something. Because it just sounds like you are looking for an excuse to say "Gen 1 pandering", regardless on whether or not that is your excuse.

As far as games being stale, I don't blame gen 1 for that. I felt that in gen 3 and 4 because you are yet again, a trainer who is going around collecting 8 badges and fighting an evil team. I actually applaud gen 5 for trying to have a story and build up everything regarding N. Also you don't even fight the champion the first time through. That was a choice that isn't stale. In fact, since the entire layout of SuMo seem to be different from gen 1 through 6, I would say it is the least stale (in theory), regardless of the fact that there are a lot of references to Gen 1.... I also like the fact that there are bringing back something from gen 6 that should have been fleshed out in gen 6 (Zygarde), and including a reference to the anime (Ash-Greninja)

While that was true in X and Y, we have Alolan Forms being exclusive to Kanto 'mons and my main source of frustration:

EDIT: Removed due to being datamine info.

Don't read this if you don't want to know the makeup of the regional pokedex. It's my biggest sticking point.

Really, this is getting to the point that I'm beating a dead horse.

Edited October 24, 2016 by The DanMan

[DarkDestr0yer61]

While that was true in X and Y, we have Alolan Forms being exclusive to Kanto 'mons and my main source of frustration:

There are more Kanto pokemon in the Alolan dex than there are Alolan pokemon. 87 vs 83. There's about thirty something gen 2 and 3 pokemon and gens 4-6 combined are about half of the Gen 1 representation.

One of the biggest factors in a new Pokemon game is the new Pokemon. And seeing them outnumbered by Pokemon that have been around for two decades rubs me the wrong way.

Yes, X and Y did this with in regards to Kalos pokemon and all odd-numbered generations. I didn't like it then, and don't like it now- they got it a lot better, but it's so close yet so far

Don't read this if you don't want to know the makeup of the regional pokedex. It's my biggest sticking point.

Really, this is getting to the point that I'm beating a dead horse.

Well, I'll take your word for it. I rather not know the make up of the dex.

Yeah the thing about the Gen 1 pandering is it's kinda over the top compared to Gen IV or V, which honestly get barely anything these days.The Alola forms are the worst of it. Yeah, you can have some gen 1's to market to gen 1 fans, that's fine. What's not fine, in my eyes, is only using them to pander to that group. If they were just Gen IV and V, it would still be not fine.In other words what gets me is not the pandering itself but more the fact it's overshadowing other gens.

Honestly, this probably is the best way to describe how I feel on the subject. I don't see anything wrong with nostalgia pandering. But gen 4 and 5 do seem to get neglected quite often especially when compared to Gen 1

[The DanMan]

Honestly, this probably is the best way to describe how I feel on the subject. I don't see anything wrong with nostalgia pandering. But gen 4 and 5 do seem to get neglected quite often especially when compared to Gen 1

Heck, can we mention that Gen VI itself also got neglected in it's own games? Outside of Greninja, Xerneas, and Smogonbird none of the Kalos 'mons really got to make an impact because of how overshadowed they are.

Really, the first three generations have gotten more than enough representation and pandering done. Gen 1 just has it far and away the most overall.

[Emeraldfox]

Speaking of Save files, Pokemon really should multiple files. I wonder why they don't.

On a different note, take a look at this merchandise. It's a Mario/Pokemon crossover, and yes it's official merchandise!

http://www.siliconera.com/2016/10/21/pikachu-mario-crossover-brings-cute-new-merchandise-japan/

Those hanafuda cards.

[Michelaar]

When will there be another trailer? Will there even be another one?

[Konnor97]

27th.

[Michelaar]

Ok :)

[Anacybele]

Man, this is where DP starts to overwhelm you. There is really no good answer for Maylene's Lucario, as its Bone Club move (or is it Bone Rush? I don't remember) makes even type-trumping Fire type Pokemon risky. I pretty much barely beat it, even after Plucking its Sitrus Berry. My team was lv. 28-30 too.

Budew evolved into Roselia awhile back, btw, which was nice. But it needs more damaging moves. Mega Drain is still the only one it's got...

The 27th is in just a few days, sweetness. ^^

[Quintessence]

@DanMan I don't remember the post to quote but 83 Alola pokemon is pretty fine along new Gen standards. For instance, Kalos brought around 70 new pokemon, so 80 is pretty fine. it doesn't change the fact they love Gen I but still

Edit: Spoilered the post. Sorry!

Edited October 25, 2016 by Quintessence