Batman vs Superman makes me want to commit Panda genocide

[blah the Prussian]

Let's have a chat, you and I.

Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice is the single worst superhero movie I have ever seen. I am hard pressed to put into words how furious this movie makes me. The movie focuses on director Zack Snyder's efforts to perform the classic parlor trick of "how many plot threads can I cram into one movie?" Let's do a rundown of the plot threads:

-Batman is both a murderous sociopath who uses guns and kills people in cold blood, and a whiny bitch who fights Superman because the plot demands it

-Lex Luthor's relatively interesting plan to turn Superman evil miraculously gets changed into "create Doomsday"

-Wonder Woman is in WWI, for some reason. She isn't even fighting in the Macedonian theatre (to be fair, no one gives a shot about the Macedonian theatre), she's in fucking Belgium. Why the flying fuck did Wonder Woman haul her ass to Belgium?

-Superman is boring

-Batman and Superman make up because their mothers are both named Martha. I cannot put into words how stupid this plot point is. Jesus fucking Christ.

Right, so why is this so bad? In a word, it's a mess. The movie needs to establish Batman's origin story and him as a character, which takes 20-30 minutes, time that could have been spent on character development if Batman had been established in a previous film. Hell, they reference Batman's previous actions. He references THE JOKER. Why was there not a previous film? It also has to establish Wonder Woman. Don't worry, though, as she might as well not be in this movie. She makes the Boba Fett seem like a starring character in terms of screen time.

The only good parts of the film, really, are Lex Luthor and Jeremy Iron's Alfred. People have been criticizing Jesse Eisenberg's performance, but I do quite like it. Unfortunately, Luthor himself is criminally underdeveloped, hating Superman "just because". His plan starts out kind of interesting (use the people Siperman loves against him) but it's not really clear why he wants Superman and Batman to fight, and then he just creates Doomsday, a grunting Hulk ripoff who makes it impossible to get emotionally invested in anything. I will say that the fight between Batman and Superman themselves, short as it is, is well done, though the movie should have been called "Batman and Superman bitching at each other and then fighting Doomsday", given that the eponymous fight marks the MIDWAY POINT, not the climax.

The reason that this movie makes me so angry is that there is all this good buried under all the shit that will never escape. Lex Luthor's plan seems interesting, and Batman could be interesting if developed more. Instead, it all went to waste in a film that, I am dead serious, made me wish I was watching Batman and Robin. For DC, this was Stalingrad. Marvel has won.

Edited March 27, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Jedi]

If this is the worst superhero movie you've ever seen, you clearly didn't see the late 90's early 2000's attempts at heroes like Daredevil, Spawn and the like.

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

[blah the Prussian]

If this is the worst superhero movie you've ever seen, you clearly didn't see the late 90's early 2000's attempts at heroes like Daredevil, Spawn and the like.

You actually think Daredevil is worse than this? The story in Daredevil is boring, but it at least makes an ounce of sense, and Bullseye and the Kingpin are a lot of fun to watch.

[Refa]

I was really disappointed in this movie and I felt bad for the actors since it seemed like they cared more about it than the director did.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Refa

[HamedM1]

The actors did there acting pefectly fine, the director though is another story.

The movie felt like it's production was rushed just so it can be released

Which would explain why there is numerous plotholes and bad decisions, such as

1) Why the fuck did Lois throw the kryptonite weapon in the water, then swim for it, and then once they get it back she throws it away from her and Superman.

2) How does Batman & Superman immediately partners due to there mother's having the same name?

3) They show a graffitied suit of Robin's, which means Robin is probably dead in this timeline, but it's something that can be EASILY missed

4) Superman is still broken af

5) Lex Luthor's actions and reasons for them aren't very well explained

6) Wonder Woman is just there, she feels like how Black Widow is in all other non-Avenger Marvel movies, except with even less dialogue, not even her titular name is mentioned.

Least the action was nice, but a million movies can have good action so that factor is ruled out.

[Alertcircuit]

Batman being crazy or violent can work, depending on how they execute it. There's a lot you can psychoanalyze about a guy who wears a bat costume at night and beats people up. I also disagree with the idea that this Batman needed a movie before this one, because I think most people either already know who he is, or should be able to pick up what he stands for based on his interactions throughout the movie. That last part is reliant on the writing though. Man of Steel had some pretty questionable writing (Jonathan Kent's suicide comes to mind), so it doesn't surprise me that this movie doesn't do it that fantastically.

I'm guessing the mom's name thing was supposed to be a jab at xenophobia, like Batman realizes that Superman isn't just this completely strange entity, they're more similar than he thought.

[maybe]

The movie needs to establish Batman's origin story and him as a character, which takes 20-30 minutes, time that could have been spent on character development if Batman had been established in a previous film. Hell, they reference Batman's previous actions. He references THE JOKER. Why was there not a previous film?

because everyone knows who batman is

everyone knows who the joker is

everyone knows that his parents are dead, and his origin story

and if you don't, why would you choose "batman vs superman" of all things to start with

note: i haven't seen the movie and i think it looks shitty but i don't think it would've been necessary to have another whole movie. it would've been better but everyone fucking knows who batman is and if they didn't they could've just spent a few minutes talking about whatever needs to be established

Edited March 27, 2016 by maybe

[blah the Prussian]

Batman being crazy or violent can work, depending on how they execute it. There's a lot you can psychoanalyze about a guy who wears a bat costume at night and beats people up. I also disagree with the idea that this Batman needed a movie before this one, because I think most people either already know who he is, or should be able to pick up what he stands for based on his interactions throughout the movie. That last part is reliant on the writing though. Man of Steel had some pretty questionable writing (Jonathan Kent's suicide comes to mind), so it doesn't surprise me that this movie doesn't do it that fantastically.

I'm guessing the mom's name thing was supposed to be a jab at xenophobia, like Batman realizes that Superman isn't just this completely strange entity, they're more similar than he thought.

No, it's his earth mom, not his Krypton mom. Also, I don't care how psychotic you make Batman, torturing a defenseless sex trafficker and then branding them is something no hero should ever do. Batman, no matter how dark he is, is fundamentally a hero, and I don't know what is more disturbing: that Batman tortured someone, or that Snyder apparently thought torturing someone let you keep your title of hero.

[Knight]

They also killed Jimmy Olsen apparently as a throwaway kill without even pointing out it's Jimmy Olsen. I haven't actually seen the movie yet, but my brother did, and he said it was very bad. The impression I get is that Zack Snyder hates Superman and wants to kiss Frank Miller's ass.

[MacLovin]

No, it's his earth mom, not his Krypton mom. Also, I don't care how psychotic you make Batman, torturing a defenseless sex trafficker and then branding them is something no hero should ever do. Batman, no matter how dark he is, is fundamentally a hero, and I don't know what is more disturbing: that Batman tortured someone, or that Snyder apparently thought torturing someone let you keep your title of hero.

Batman would never do this in the mainstream DC books at all.

I feel like Snyder was trying to do the whole edgy and dark stuff, but then kinda fucked up because the only major DC hero you can do that with is Batman (and related characters) and maybe Green Arrow.

Wondy, Supes, Flash, GL, Aquaman, and J'onn ain't exactly what I'd call grim and gritty by any means. I mean for fucks sake, what kind of idiot would try and make the GL or Shazam(Captain Marvel) dark?

I think Micheal Bay would have made a more fulfilling movie than Snyder. It'd be mostly action scenes and shit, but at least it wouldn't be trying to do crap that doesn't easily work.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Skurge

[Alertcircuit]

No, it's his earth mom, not his Krypton mom. Also, I don't care how psychotic you make Batman, torturing a defenseless sex trafficker and then branding them is something no hero should ever do. Batman, no matter how dark he is, is fundamentally a hero, and I don't know what is more disturbing: that Batman tortured someone, or that Snyder apparently thought torturing someone let you keep your title of hero.

This Batman however, is not a hero. He even says so himself in the movie to Alfred, something along the lines of "We're criminals." I agree that the thing with the branding is questionable, because although one of Batman's things is scaring criminals, we don't know if the brand is really a good or bad thing in the long run. I'm going to assume he saves it for people who do really despicable crimes like sex trafficking.

There are a few problems with the way they executed this Batman, the first being that this movie was marketed towards children when it really shouldn't have been. I don't think younger children could really comprehend easily that this Batman isn't necessarily someone that should be looked up to. That's a marketing mistake. I feel like the movie's boring enough that kids won't be able to care anyway though.

The other problem was that this Batman isn't calculated. When he's about to kill Superman with the spear, he cuts Superman's cheek first. You could argue that's an adrenaline rush thing but I feel like comic Batman minus the no-kill policy would've just done Supes in before he got a chance to yell Martha. Also the fact that he stops when he realizes Supes has a mom is weird because Batman probably would've figured that Supes isn't literally just a vigilante machine and that he probably has a life and/or family. It's like this Batman's just in a blind rage, and doesn't want to kill Superman solely for the good of humanity. This makes him hard to like as a protagonist.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Alertcircuit

[MacLovin]

well i guess it COULD be like some kinda version of batman early in his career before getting a kid sidekick mellowed him out?

I mean the comics shows him as being pretty brutal in his pre-Robin days.

man I just want to see a James Robinson Starman or Wolfgang/Perez Teen Titans movie series/tv series.

[blah the Prussian]

This Batman however, is not a hero. He even says so himself in the movie to Alfred, something along the lines of "We're criminals." I agree that the thing with the branding is questionable, because although one of Batman's things is scaring criminals, we don't know if the brand is really a good or bad thing in the long run. I'm going to assume he saves it for people who do really despicable crimes like sex trafficking.

There are a few problems with the way they executed this Batman, the first being that this movie was marketed towards children when it really shouldn't have been. I don't think younger children could really comprehend easily that this Batman isn't necessarily someone that should be looked up to. That's a marketing mistake. I feel like the movie's boring enough that kids won't be able to care anyway though.

The other problem was that this Batman isn't calculated. When he's about to kill Superman with the spear, he cuts Superman's cheek first. You could argue that's an adrenaline rush thing but I feel like comic Batman minus the no-kill policy would've just done Supes in before he got a chance to yell Martha. Also the fact that he stops when he realizes Supes has a mom is weird because Batman probably would've figured that Supes isn't literally just a vigilante machine and that he probably has a life and/or family. It's like this Batman's just in a blind rage, and doesn't want to kill Superman solely for the good of humanity. This makes him hard to like as a protagonist.

There was also a missed opportunity for them to have Bat,an's character development make him less of an asshole. Instead, the main point of comflict, that being differing methods, never really gets resolved, the characters just stopped caring about it.

[Loki Laufeyson]

If this is the worst superhero movie you've ever seen, you clearly didn't see the late 90's early 2000's attempts at heroes like Daredevil, Spawn and the like.

What? Spawn was campy fun and wonderful. Back up! :P

I have no intention of seeing this shit show, but i have to ask: Did you actually expect quality from this? And of Zack Snyder?

[Nintales]

While I thought the coffin end scene was great (I just love the parallel between the burying of a man as a human and superman as a symbol), didn't really enjoy anything else.

Batman and Superman make up because their mothers are both named Martha. I cannot put into words how stupid this plot point is.

This.

Just. This.

The whole movie's plot felt forced as much as possible.

1) What happened 18 months sooner? This was executed so fast we couldn't get a thing. (some villain created a flying weapon of death... and Bruce Wayne is in Metropolis for some reason... and Superman fights someone in the sky... and Bruce thinks superman is the cause for that? I don't know, I really don't)

2) While it seems to be Superman's characterization to prioritize his close ones over people, did he just let Lex Luthor fly out while potentially allowing him to kill thousands of people for "his mom"? That just felt wrong. Really, really wrong. While I know Lex has to live because it'd be lame if he died there, the whole reason why Batman and Superman fight is just crap.

3) Now time to go to the fight. Nice way to convince Bruce to help you while literally charging on him after he attacked you. Truly this will be a great way to stop the conflict and fight!

4) Why did Lois throw the lance into the water? Damn that looked dumb.

5) Why is Wonder Woman so willing to give the file to Bruce, who if I remember correctly is a perfect stranger to her?

6) Why isn't the place with all the data extremely protected?

7) Why does Lex Luthor say something about "Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent"? As far as I know Clark seems just to be the reporter sent there to cover the event, nothing really special.

8) The movie established we're in 2015/2016. (the tape with Wonder Woman doing something said June 2015) Why is the security for a meeting with a senator so horrible? I mean, can't anyone check a wheeling chair to see if there's a bomb inside? (unless I got it wrong)

9) Why does Superman have to take the lance? Can't he throw it to Wonder Woman, another superhero who can actually fight without being handicapped by the kryptonite?

10) How. Just how could he say Wonder Woman disappeared 100 years ago after WW1 when her first appearance was against the Nazis. While I'm not that invested into comic lore, this is... just weird.

At least the music against Doomsday was fun, I guess.

EDIT : Trying to give credit to the movie, I think Clark and Luthor probably had the best characterization. While I rant on it in my second point, it's clearly obvious that Clark will protect his close ones over anything else : This is shown earlier as he goes blindly rescuing Lois while leaving quite the people to die. Luthor is also really interesting psychologically : His will seems to be to overcome a divine power by himself -indeed, he considers Superman to be divine-. I think it's also quite due to a parental inferiority complex : you see this with the scene with the senator, where he says quite a lot about his father, showing an obsession. He wants to go further than anyone has ever been. At least that's how I understood his character. As for anything else, oooooooh boy...

Edited March 31, 2016 by Nintales

[Magical CC]

This movie sucks! This Batman is out of character! Lol no, this is not Batman. This is Punisher in disguise. Remember when Batman hunted Punisher because of his violent methods against criminals? I do! This Batman betrayed the everything the Batman of the previous movies has done. Not even Batman in Red Son was this psychopath.

And Doomsday...oh dear, Doomsday looks like a pussy. He looks and fights like a random monster of the week. The last time I check, he is THE carnage. Everyone took him serious. But in this movie, the super heroes still have time to banter and chat while fighting him. If you want to be edgy and dark then why did you do this, Zack!? Why?! It's not only about how many people die, how many people the super heroes killed but also the intense, the atmosphere that make a movie dark and edgy! You are an experience director, Zack. You should know this more than anyone else.

And seriously, it's actually not that bad because his opponent is one of the most angsty and emo version of Superman I have ever seen. And Lois...lol, I just wish they didnt add her. She has no role in this movie, at all. What the hell is she doing here? We have WW already if you want to satisfy the feminists. This movie has already have many characters. Lex is cool. But it's because he stepped into Joker's territory. Lol, I dont read many spin-off but I dont remember since when Lex speaks and acts like this.

I should be paid to watch this shit, not vice versa.

If this is the worst superhero movie you've ever seen, you clearly didn't see the late 90's early 2000's attempts at heroes like Daredevil, Spawn and the like.

Dude! Spawn is awesome! It's the R-18 super heroes movie of the age!

Edited March 31, 2016 by Magical CC