The Official Ultima Super Battle Cruise Fortress Topic Deluxe!

[Ninja Caterpie]

Slow and terrible typing for the second half of the game.

however before then, he happens to tank Wattson, Flannery, Norman, Winona so he's really good at the start and through the middle (even if he kinda dies against like all of the remaining gym leaders + E4). Higher rating for R/S where he doesn't fall apart on the Champion battle, so I'll even it out

5.5/10

Edited July 8, 2012 by Ninja Caterpie

[Shadow Mir]

Slow and terrible typing for the second half of the game.

however before then, he happens to tank Wattson, Flannery, Norman, Winona and even Liza/Tate so he's really good at the start and through the middle. Higher rating for R/S where he doesn't fall apart on the Champion battle, so I'll even it out

5.5/10

Wait, what? Golem tanks Tate and Liza how? I'd sooner expect it to fold like a bad poker player.

[Ema Skye]

Geodude's kinda got immediate utility. It's an easy victory for it against Wattson, and it can do alright vs Flannery. Rock-type rocks against both Norman and Winona. Then it's pretty much served its use. Tate and Liza are incredibly unkind to it. Wallace/Juan... just lol. Drake, Glacia and Sidney prey on its low special defense, and all of Phoebe's Pokemon have a way to break through Golem (Will-o-Wisp, Special Moves). It's the only Rock-type you'll get for quite a while (next is Solrock/Lunatone iirc, and then Rhyhorn), so it's pretty unique for most of its helpful period.

5.5/10 - Three battles where it rocks (punny :D), and one where it's kinda good. The rest, just forget about him. He and Marshtomp are your only surefire ways to beat Wattson, so I'm giving that more weight than the other three. Geodude, Solrock and Skarmory are your best options for Norman, so I'm also weighting that a bit higher.

[Ninja Caterpie]

Wait, what? Golem tanks Tate and Liza how? I'd sooner expect it to fold like a bad poker player.

um i can't remember

magnitude?

._.

(that's not going to work is it)

[Shadow Mir]

um i can't remember

magnitude?

._.

(that's not going to work is it)

No use indeed. All of their Pokemon either have Levitate or are flyers.

[thedominator12345]

5/10

Can learn useful HM's like strength and rock smash. A solid fighter early on in the game especially when it evolves into Gravler and can easily solo the third gym if trained well. However later on in the game its usefulness against gym leaders begins to wane, and it is also a problem oyu need a connecter cord to actually get a golem instead of using wireless DS communications like in the newer games.

[BBM]

4.44 for Meowth. Thanks for putting this up btw, Darros!

[BBM]

Rules (adapted from Fire Emblem RTUs)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly. You can troll a bit, but no CATERPIE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.

- Votes are made out of 10. You cannot rate a pokemon above 10 or below 0.

- The rating topic will be updated whenever I feel like it, but I will try to allow at least 24 hours for each topic. They will generally be updated at around noon EST.

- A pokemon being inferior relative to another pokemon does not explicitly reduce their rating.

- We are rating ingame performance only, up until the Elite 4 is beaten the first time.

- Evolution lines get condensed, so treat Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venasaur all as one pokemon.

Paras/Parasect: 2.15

Weedle/Kakuna/Beedrill: 2.44

Ekans/Arbok: 2.57

Rattate/Raticate: 3.20

Zubat/Golbat: 3.25

Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff: 4.21

Venonat/Venomoth: 4.28

Vulpix/Ninetales: 4.38

Meowth/Persian: 4.44

Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume: 4.92

Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot: 5.00

Caterpie/Metapod/Butterfree: 5.21

Sandshrew/Sandslash: 5.86

Pikachu/Raichu: 5.94

Spearow/Fearow: 6.21

Charmander/Charmeleon/Charizard: 7.80

Diglett/Dugtrio: 7.9

Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venasaur: 8.25

Nidoran-F/Nidorina/Nidoqueen: 8.58

Squirtle/Wartortle/Blastoise: 9.36

Clefairy/Clefable: 9.50

Nidoran-M/Nidorino/Nidoking: 9.75

Edited July 10, 2012 by BigBangMeteor

[FrostyFireMage]

Good all-around stats and a great movepool. The only Water move it learns naturally is Hydro Pump at a very late level, but there are plenty of TMs and HMs that teach Water-type moves.

Overall decent Pokemon.

8/10.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Frosty Fire Mage

[Ema Skye]

Mediocre stats (nothing over 95), and no STAB until Surf unless you give it Water Pulse TM. It relies on Ice Beam and Confusion (doesn't learn Psychic this Gen.) It needs Calm Mind if it wants to hit hard.

5/10

[MacLovin]

When you get it, surf is there around the corner.

And Calm Mind, and IB too.

And AA/Dig/BB, if you want some physical moves.

7/10

Decent, and underrated.

[ZemZem]

5/10. Rock/Ground is a mixed bag; good offensively (other than this being Gen 3, there your strongest Rock move is Rock Slide), but god-awful defensively; six weaknesses, two of which are double weaknesses. It doesn't help that this is Hoenn, which gives Rock/Ground types a big "screw you" lategame.

This. Tallying soon.

[ZemZem]

Rules (adapted from Fire Emblem RTUs)

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already quote them explicitly. You can troll a bit, but no WURMPLE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.

- Votes are made out of 10. You cannot rate a pokemon above 10 or below 0.

- The rating topic will be updated whenever I feel like it, but I will try to allow at least 24 hours for each topic. They will generally be updated at around 10 PM CST.

- A pokemon being inferior relative to another pokemon does not explicitly reduce their rating.

- We are rating ingame performance only, up until the Elite 4 is beaten the first time.

- Evolution lines get condensed, so treat Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile all as one pokemon.

- Pokemon that evolve through trades are accounted for.

- A Pokemon's performance is to be judged by the game they are most prominent in (Example: Zangoose is to be judged by Pokemon Ruby standards.).

Averages:

Wurmple/Cascoon/Dustox: 1.67

Goldeen/Seaking: 2.01

Surskit/Masquerain: 2.88

Wurmple/Silcoon/Beautifly: 3.50

Nincada/Shedinja: 3.69

Poochyena/Mightyena: 3.95

Nincada/Ninjask: 4.13

Slakoth/Vigoroth/Slaking: 5.36

Geodude/Graveler/Golem: 5.64

Lotad/Lombre/Ludicolo: 5.69

Wingull/Pelipper: 5.70

Whismur/Loudred/Exploud: 5.81

Seedot/Nuzleaf/Shiftry: 6.36

Zigzagoon/Linoone: 6.43

Azurill/Marill/Azumarill: 7.00

Makuhita/Hariyama: 7.50

Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam: 7.56

Magikarp/Gyarados: 8.25

Shroomish/Breloom: 8.27

Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile: 8.36

Taillow/Swellow: 8.38

Ralts/Kirlia/Gardevoir: 8.39

Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken: 9.00

Mudkip/Marshstomp/Swampert: 9.77

Posting this earlier due to parents. :P

[Ema Skye]

Rule of thumb: Defensive Rock-types suck pre Gen.4. Then they get awesome.

Not like defenses matter ingame when you need offense and speed, since the enemies are pushovers.

Nosepass' highest offenses are both base 45. To put it in perspective, only Minun, Wobbuffet and Luvdisc have lower attack (and Grumpig ties with it). Oh but hey, it gets Thunderbolt.

Max Sp.Attack Modest Nosepass Thunderbolt vs no EVs, neutral nature Gyarados: 72.5% - 85.8%

Yeah, >.<

135 defense is cool. 45 offenses and 30 speed are most definitely not.

0/10

[Ninja Caterpie]

Has some of the worst attacking stats in the game. Bulkiness doesn't mean much when you have a weakness to the game's most common type, either.

2/10 with bias because nose and stuff. IDK I want to reserve my 0/1 for later. At least Nosepass is available relatively early.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Ninja Caterpie

[Fallenite]

Rule of thumb: Defensive Rock-types suck pre Gen.4. Then they get awesome.

i hope you're not adding aron and evos to that list because they're pretty much one of the best in-game tanks rse-wise

also i wish i knew about this SOONER because this list is looking pretty damn whack. taillow and swellow aren't top tier, normal/flying is a terrible type combo. why is makuhita/hariyama so low??? shroomish/breloom aren't that great, unless you have the patience for sporemish, which nobody does. STAB prio is pretty beefy, but lategame it falls pretty short. asdf even with pickup utility, ziggy isn't better than a lot of the things it currently is. slaking and co are much better even with traunt. marill is not good at all, a terrible pokemon that pales in comparison to wingull/pelipper, who has a clutch earlygame and hm utility mid-endgame. surf and fly on one pokemon is p cool. why is abra lower than magikarp if the latter requires even more babying, which is mainly the reason i saw it voted down?? trade evolutions aren't a pain in the ass to get, and alakazam and kadabra have the exact same level up movepool, meaning you can get a clutch psychic user way earlygame. ralts is just too weak and gains exp too slow for it to be used. sure in the end it has more defenses, but it isn't going to be ohko'ing anything as often as alakazam.

also seedot and evos aren't better than the lotad gang. kyogre and instant rain gives more advantages than groudon and sun.

aaaaaanyway, nosepass is that pokemon you'll see once a playthrough, and that being in the first gym. kind of a dick to kill that early on, but with all the advantages given through the routes, it's easier than you'd expect. other than that, pretty much every other rock type is more useful, the other two in its catching area (aron and geodude) to name a few.

earlygame dick, but nothing past that, a solid 1/10 because it's a pretty cool concept.

[TheVinceKnight]

Nosepass is dumb.

Those attacking stats. Are dumb.

Nosepass is useless.

1/10. I'd make it 0 but I for one like that big red nose.

[Shadow Mir]

i hope you're not adding aron and evos to that list because they're pretty much one of the best in-game tanks rse-wise

also i wish i knew about this SOONER because this list is looking pretty damn whack. taillow and swellow aren't top tier, normal/flying is a terrible type combo. why is makuhita/hariyama so low??? shroomish/breloom aren't that great, unless you have the patience for sporemish, which nobody does. STAB prio is pretty beefy, but lategame it falls pretty short. asdf even with pickup utility, ziggy isn't better than a lot of the things it currently is. slaking and co are much better even with traunt. marill is not good at all, a terrible pokemon that pales in comparison to wingull/pelipper, who has a clutch earlygame and hm utility mid-endgame. surf and fly on one pokemon is p cool. why is abra lower than magikarp if the latter requires even more babying, which is mainly the reason i saw it voted down?? trade evolutions aren't a pain in the ass to get, and alakazam and kadabra have the exact same level up movepool, meaning you can get a clutch psychic user way earlygame. ralts is just too weak and gains exp too slow for it to be used. sure in the end it has more defenses, but it isn't going to be ohko'ing anything as often as alakazam.

also seedot and evos aren't better than the lotad gang. kyogre and instant rain gives more advantages than groudon and sun.

aaaaaanyway, nosepass is that pokemon you'll see once a playthrough, and that being in the first gym. kind of a dick to kill that early on, but with all the advantages given through the routes, it's easier than you'd expect. other than that, pretty much every other rock type is more useful, the other two in its catching area (aron and geodude) to name a few.

earlygame dick, but nothing past that, a solid 1/10 because it's a pretty cool concept.

As for the Slakoth line, having to put up with Truant hurts it, especially early on. As for Abra, all it gets that's noteworthy is Shock Wave, which is weaker than Psychic unless you're attacking a Gyarados or something. Also, the bit about Kadabra and Alakazam having the same natural learnset is false. Ralts gets Calm Mind naturally; Kadabra... doesn't. As for the Lotad and Seedot lines, I find both pretty mediocre due to awful movepool, with Seedot getting a slight advantage due to not being stuck waiting until after the seventh gym to evolve..

[Fallenite]

granted i wrote most of that post off the top of my head, but with the exp share available so much earlier in this game than FR/LG, or GSC for that matter, the extra time it takes to train a pokemon that actually ends up good is worth it in the long haul. kadabra might not get cm by level up, but alakazam does, and 'zam is available a lot earlier than voir. not to mention voir doesn't have reliable recovery outside of the standard chestorest or the risky hypnosis/dream eater. 50% accuracy misses far more than it should. i just find alakazam's glass cannon base spread more useful than a semi-tankish psychic.

also if exp sharing or switch-grinding isn't allowed, then magikarp loses a lot of points. gyarados lategame aren't enough to make up for it since they'll have wild growths.

[Fallenite]

being a firered exclusive, a lot of the water types are rather lackluster. cloyster makes an OK tank, poliwrath a pretty strong mixed sweeper,, lapras and vaporeon being pretty bulky, you've got at least some competition for a surf user, and golduck doesn't have much to make it shine.

plus it comes pretty late when you could have gotten some other water type loads better. it's not bad by all means, but it's not good either.

4/10

[Shadow Mir]

granted i wrote most of that post off the top of my head, but with the exp share available so much earlier in this game than FR/LG, or GSC for that matter, the extra time it takes to train a pokemon that actually ends up good is worth it in the long haul. kadabra might not get cm by level up, but alakazam does, and 'zam is available a lot earlier than voir. not to mention voir doesn't have reliable recovery outside of the standard chestorest or the risky hypnosis/dream eater. 50% accuracy misses far more than it should. i just find alakazam's glass cannon base spread more useful than a semi-tankish psychic.

also if exp sharing or switch-grinding isn't allowed, then magikarp loses a lot of points. gyarados lategame aren't enough to make up for it since they'll have wild growths.

Still, Shock Wave is weaker than Psychic is nearly all situations. Also, Ralts gets CM and Psychic earlier than Alakazam does (level 21 and 26 respectively, as opposed to 33 and 36). Besides, Alakazam getting Recover means practically nothing.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Fallenite]

ralts being in a much slower gaining exp group means a level 16 ralts will be contributing a lot less to the team than a level 16 kadabra (or alakazam). by the time you get to mauville you can pretty much get psychic if you really need it that early, but alakazam rocking psybeam will be more than enough off that special. shock wave is just a plus and for steels/darks, which i'd question using a psychic pokemon against anyway. overall alakazam will be able to keep up with a team a lot better than the ralts line will, i've tried a few runs with them and they hog the better amount of exp for a long time. very few things i see that voir gets over zam: earlier psychic/cm, technically earlier availabilty, better defensive stats, and tbolt access, while alakazam has; earlier final evolution, better psychic attack earlier (psybeam isn't as bad as relying on confusion for 20 levels), better sweeping potential (delicious base 125 special attack is always nice early on). set on the table, if you're going into a battle that will be drawn out, gardevoir is usually better, but zam kills things way more often than not in a single hit.

[Shadow Mir]

ralts being in a much slower gaining exp group means a level 16 ralts will be contributing a lot less to the team than a level 16 kadabra (or alakazam). by the time you get to mauville you can pretty much get psychic if you really need it that early, but alakazam rocking psybeam will be more than enough off that special. shock wave is just a plus and for steels/darks, which i'd question using a psychic pokemon against anyway. overall alakazam will be able to keep up with a team a lot better than the ralts line will, i've tried a few runs with them and they hog the better amount of exp for a long time. very few things i see that voir gets over zam: earlier psychic/cm, technically earlier availabilty, better defensive stats, and tbolt access, while alakazam has; earlier final evolution, better psychic attack earlier (psybeam isn't as bad as relying on confusion for 20 levels), better sweeping potential (delicious base 125 special attack is always nice early on). set on the table, if you're going into a battle that will be drawn out, gardevoir is usually better, but zam kills things way more often than not in a single hit.

Well, you have a point, but I still prefer Gardevoir.

Bold: What??

[Ema Skye]

i hope you're not adding aron and evos to that list because they're pretty much one of the best in-game tanks rse-wise

Uhh, you're not taking well when you're weak to Water, Fighting and Ground in Hoenn. But Aggron's got that nice attack stat to fall back on, so I didn't really count Aggron.

and because I forgot it existed

[Fallenite]

coins are rather cheap, and roulette is a fun way to get a lot of coins, besides money becomes less of a thing after amulet coin + fly due to unlimited reporter battles. (which i guess is about the time you'd have psychic anyway)