Imperial/Customary vs Metric System

[Jave]

Sorry, but not everyone will accept it because I won't accept it for anything more than science and food labels.

I'm talking on a grander scale. I'm sure a lot of people in former imperial countries still don't accept it, but it's not like I care about what those people think.

I also don't understand why people say the metric system is hard to comprehend. Even in the US it's used to measure computer file sizes ("Bytes" uses the metric system).

[Dotty]

And yes, eclipse, but saying 200 grams of flour is sillier than saying one cup of flour.

Perhaps it seems silly to you simply because you aren't used to it, which is understandable.

Cup sounds silly to me, after all.

[Original Alear]

I like that I can approximate inches and feet with my thumb and my forearm. My thumbnail is about as wide as a centimeter, but I don't think I have any distinct part of my body about a meter in length besides my dick.

I also prefer temperature in fahrenheit, because it can be more exact w/out tossing in decimals. Maybe it's a dumb reason, but that's just me.

I honestly don't think using cups in baking is very problematic, IMO my cookies, cakes etc turn out great and they're generally a big hit if I bring them somewhere. I don't bake in large quantities, I think 2 and 1/4 or 2 and 1/2 is the most flour I tend to use. Maybe if you bake large amounts it's important to be more precise.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Togami Byakuga

[eclipse]

And yes, eclipse, but saying 200 grams of flour is sillier than saying one cup of flour. If metric can come up with a better alternative, then we'll talk more here.

I'm just going to assume that you don't bake on a regular basis.

Yeah, mass is generally more accurate than volume, but then you have to have a scale handy. I don't even have a scale in my kitchen, but I have lots of measuring cups. Although, that may speak more on my mediocre cooking skills. :P

There's also the fact that scales are lot tougher to clean and all sorts of debris can grime up to calibration.

Put plastic wrap on top of scale, put empty container on scale, and zero the scale. That should give you an accurate measurement of whatever ingredient you use, without the mess. If there's stuff on the plastic after you've done your measurement, discard plastic, then start from the beginning.

FTR, I need to pick up a scale (I've used someone else's scale instead). I haven't had a serious baking project, but if I do, that's my first purchase.

[Jave]

Actually, most metric system countries do use cups and spoons for measuring, but that's for convenience sake. At least in my country, almost every recipe book includes measurements in both cups/spoons and metric values.

[Dual Dragons]

Sorry, but not everyone will accept it because I won't accept it for anything more than science and food labels.

And yes, eclipse, but saying 200 grams of flour is sillier than saying one cup of flour. If metric can come up with a better alternative, then we'll talk more here.

And alcohol. Which is not in fluid ounces. Also Celsius. Celsius is used in metric/science and is very critical to everyday life. I try to make sure to include "degrees F[ahrenheit]) in conversations suspect of having non-American people because "86 degrees" means death in Celsius. And if one thinks critically, using Celsius makes more sense since 0 degrees Celsius is the point of water freezing and 100 degrees Celsius is the point of water boiling. Very simple to remember. (I still have yet to master doing the calculations in my head, though).

I don't see how saying 200 grams is inherently "sillier" than some arbitrary measurement called a "cup." What is a "cup" when we have glasses... or "cups"? Why is a "quart" called a "quart"? A fourth of a "gallon"? Equal to two "pints"? After a while, even I find these terms "silly" than just using a more universal unit. Is it that much better when someone says "10 stones," or whatever was that unit said before in this thread?

Yeah, mass is generally more accurate than volume, but then you have to have a scale handy. I don't even have a scale in my kitchen, but I have lots of measuring cups. Although, that may speak more on my mediocre cooking skills. :P

There's also the fact that scales are lot tougher to clean and all sorts of debris can grime up to calibration.

Speaking from being in many labs myself, I don't see how scales can get that dirty if what one is trying to weigh is on a clean plate or bowl. I have a mini scale with a tare function and a glass top and it remains relatively spot-free. Of course, the bottom of a plate or bowl might catch something from sitting on a counter top, but that's why we clean the scale and make sure nothing slips through the cracks of the machine.

(Eclipse beat me to the point but, yeah, just do things that'll keep the scale clean, like plastic wrap or clean containers and then tare/zero out).

A big size, good measuring cup should have both imperial and metric units on it. Do you mean those or the separate "cups" like 1 cup, 1/2 cup, 3/4 cup, etc.?

FTR, I need to pick up a scale (I've used someone else's scale instead). I haven't had a serious baking project, but if I do, that's my first purchase.

How big of a scale would you need? My mini one was like $14-$20 but I don't do baking projects or bake more than just a single fish.

I'm an American but I'm honestly bad at both systems. I'd still rather learn metric because of its practicality and universality --but I don't see why we can't learn both if we're going to argue here. If we can apparently get down-pat that 12 "inches" is a "foot" and three "feet" to a "yard," don't know why multiplying or dividing by 10, 100, or 1000 should be that much difficult.

[Sunwoo]

As a scientist, I far prefer metric system over whatever the hell Americans use. All of the important calculations are done in Celsius so it feels far more convenient for me to just use metric instead of going, "okay, that's 50 Fahrenheit. How much is that in Celsius again?" Not to mention, basically the rest of the world uses metric so when I'm talking with my European friends and we happen to bring up measurement, one of us has to do conversions anyway.

[eclipse]

I'd need a cooking scale that does grams, and ideally would convert to ounces for certain recipes. I can usually get away with eyeballing it for casual cooking projects (like my dinner), but having grams is really helpful for things like baking bread. Or pancakes (which I'll get around to. . .one day).

[Loki Laufeyson]

I wasnt really taught metric in depth. But i kinda learned a lot of it just as i went through life. Im still not clear on everything. But i do find metric makes far more sense in terms of measurements and temp gauging, etc. I could switch if i had to.

[Thor Odinson]

When I came to America I had to learn Imperial system and it was like the weirdest thing ever like why is everything in a conversion factor that doesn't make sense and hard to remember

Completely unintuitive

It's only many years in America after that I can deal with Imperial units --- now I can pretty much convert, but I did everything in metric back in China and that actually made sense

also good thing im a scientist eh

we could always just go base 2

[Dual Dragons]

I'd need a cooking scale that does grams, and ideally would convert to ounces for certain recipes. I can usually get away with eyeballing it for casual cooking projects (like my dinner), but having grams is really helpful for things like baking bread. Or pancakes (which I'll get around to. . .one day).

Yep. As long as you don't care on size (it's about 7in. x 7.5in.), it's a mini scale by Taylor. The one I have has a timer, tare/zero, and can switch to units of lb./oz. and grams. Online says it's about $20 but can only hold about 7 lb. If that'll be sufficient, it's relatively cheap.

When I came to America I had to learn Imperial system and it was like the weirdest thing ever like why is everything in a conversion factor that doesn't make sense and hard to remember

Completely unintuitive

I can only imagine. I mean, I suck at imperial as is and judge distance poorly. The only thing I can convert quickly enough is Fahrenheit to Celsius, though without decimals.

[Rezzy]

Good points, but whenever I bake, cook, or whatnot, stuff tends to get on the counter. Not a huge mess, mind you, just enough to muck up the gears and such of a scale, but I suppose an electronic one might be a bit more air tight.

[eclipse]

Electronic cooking scale or bust. If you're taking the time to measure things by mass, you WANT to be precise! They should also have grams/ounces conversions.

[Rezzy]

Electronic cooking scale or bust. If you're taking the time to measure things by mass, you WANT to be precise! They should also have grams/ounces conversions.

Yeah, once I move, I'll have to make a point to upgrade my cooking apparati. My main measuring cup is so faded, I can barely make out the markers. I've had it for the last ten years, when I first moved out on my own.

[peener weener]

that's probably the most contrived argument in defense of imperial that i've seen an american come up with in a while so uh, bonus points i guess

it really makes no sense, even in the opening paragraph of your post you use plenty of words that could easily be replaced with smaller words of similar or equal meaning. it's an argument that is kinda sound but has no practical value. and no, children have no problem learning it, and no, people have no problem using it in daily life. also, the argument about convenient sizes is totally moot since all metric units are easily relatable and you can describe any measurement in any specific capacity and people will immediately understand what you mean

edit: i'm not saying imperial is worse for daily use, just that your argument about daily use makes no sense.

Edited May 30, 2016 by fuccboi

[Parrhesia]

In my experience Australians (I think also Britons?) use kind of a best of both worlds approach - metric almost always, but table/teaspoons are still convenient for recipes, people measure their height in feet... hell, in football, the penalty area's still occasionally called the 18-yard box. Still, most of the time metric's just better at measuring things, and the fact that 'centimetre' is four syllables doesn't really impact on that. (Hell, I was barely aware decametres existed but the fact that I instantly know it's 10cm is pretty illustrative.)

Imperial doesn't have a reason to exist besides 'we're used to it and the country's already built around it', which is a perfectly fine reason for it to continue in the United States.

[Rezzy]

On an ironic note, it's kind of funny that America was the first (or one of) to use decimalized currency, in an attempt distance itself from the British system of pounds, shillings, and pennies which they used until 1971.

[Relick]

Cut it out, NOW.

Don't be an ass towards an entire country.

Use the Report button, and say nothing else in-topic - someone will get to it.

Fucking hell I'm getting a lot of flak for pointing out Anacybele's ridiculous argument that belittles the intelligence of American children. I've said enough about this and clarified my position into the total opposite of what you accuse me of before you even made your post. I won't be further attacked for something I didn't mean (and have even already apologised for the misunderstanding). Since I don't want to further this in the thread if there is still an issue then just PM me and I will be co-operative.

Back on topic: about the cooking issue. Being a Brit I've always used grams and millilitres (on top of teaspoons/tablespoons) when cooking, until this year when I bought a cookbook with cup measurements in. In some ways, I sort of prefer cups as a measurement because it doesn't require scales. It's just a little more convenient. On the other hand, it's less precise but hey - cooking isn't an exact science anyway. So on this end I would say that imperial is better for cooking. But there's no reason why we can't use imperial for cooking whilst using metric for everything else.

Also, another very minor point in favour of imperial: road signs. Often speed limit signs in Europe will be >100 kph, which is 1 extra character that needs to be printed compared to imperial, where the speed limits rarely exceed 100. :P

[DragonLord]

Canadian here, used to Metric obviously. I see no reason for the Imperial system, and quite frankly most of the world agrees.

[Rapier]

This is obviously biased because I grew up with the metric system and I don't even remember how to use the US system, but I also find it more logical. How am I going to calculate something based on "feet" and "mile"? How am I going to exactly measure something based on feet size, which obviously varies? It is too unspecific and intuitive. The metric system is more exact and makes more sense, thus it is the best.

[Rezzy]

This is obviously biased because I grew up with the metric system and I don't even remember how to use the US system, but I also find it more logical. How am I going to calculate something based on "feet" and "mile"? How am I going to exactly measure something based on feet size, which obviously varies? It is too unspecific and intuitive. The metric system is more exact and makes more sense, thus it is the best.

A foot is 12 inches, which will rarely be the size of an actual foot, unless you've got huge feet. Although, I remember measuring my Dad's feet, when I was a kid, and they were actually 12 inches long. Maybe that would explain my huge woofers.

[Acacia Sgt]

Measuring systems huh.

I grew up learning both, as a Mexican living in a city bordering the US. In my personal experience, I found metric much easier to remember and use when I was a kid. Even today I still struggle to remember some of the Imperial conversions, but with Metric everything's fine and dandy in comparison. So yeah, I prefer Metric.

[thepeaguy]

Actually meter is just the American English version of the word.

Metre is used in the rest of the english-speaking countries.

A lot of the English words we use are essentially loanwords due to the Norman Conquest of England nearly 1000 years ago. The Normans spoke their own variation of Old French. From Middle English to Late Modern English (what we speak), the language has been bastardised.

Incidentally, the English Imperial system is French. It used to be called "avoirdupois". We adopted the system in England in the 1300s.

From the mid 1960s, a lot of UK schools adopted the metric system, even though we still retain some imperial mesaurements for height, weight and mileage. As part of the EU, we're expected to use metric for business goods - which could change if we vote for Brexit.

Edited June 7, 2016 by thepeaguy

[Moblin Major General]

I'm a scholar of all things history and militaria, so I understand this argument pretty well. I understand that a bomb that is 500 kilograms is rather large vs one that is 500 pounds (the latter still being effective, but is less than half the weight in explosives). The oddest thing is, studying militaria means that you might also have to gauge nautical miles, or knots, which are significantly longer (greater than 250 yards) than a mile, or around 1.7 kilometers, versus the 1.5 kilometers in a statute mile. from the range from over .5 inch to right at 5 inches, shells are usually measured in millimeters, but outside of that, they are measured in caliber, although many nations in the EU are part of NATO, which gives its own measurement for small arms rounds. I know things like 7.62mm=3/10 inch, 12.7mm=.5 inch, .79 in=20mm, and 150mm=6 in.

[Original Alear]

This is obviously biased because I grew up with the metric system and I don't even remember how to use the US system, but I also find it more logical. How am I going to calculate something based on "feet" and "mile"? How am I going to exactly measure something based on feet size, which obviously varies? It is too unspecific and intuitive. The metric system is more exact and makes more sense, thus it is the best.

It's a homonym. It's ok if you prefer the metric system, but don't base your conclusion on completely incorrect information. The imperial system is also exact. The meter is derived from natural phenomenon (according to wikipedia, it's based on the speed of light over a very small fraction of a second, and has been since about 1983) while the foot is converted directly from the meter using a mathematic equation, and has been since 1959. Thus, it's impossible for one to be more exact than the other: what you said makes about as much sense as saying that centimeters are less exact than decimeters. I got my info from wikipedia, so if I am actually wrong, my apologies :( In practice, perhaps there's something about the conversion that makes ruler/yard sticks less accurate than a meter stick: that, I'm not aware of, but I expect a meter stick is not really as exact as the scientific definition of a meter anyway.

Both meters and feet used to have varying/different definitions. I'm a bit lucky, my foot size is 12.5 inches, so it's just about right in my case. Though it's easier to measure with my forearm, which is about the same length.

The length from the tip of my thumb to my first digit is about an inch, and the width of the tip of my thumbnail is about a centimeter. I do not know if I have an easy approximate for the length of a meter, so in very everyday use I prefer feet over meters.